With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

It's just better to ignore anything Vaermina says in this thread, as it's almost always wrong. Like, the complete opposite of the reality of the situation.

Click to shrink...

I don't know them, and I'm honestly not gonna judge them on hear say, but that actually seems like a really useful thing to have. Just take what they say, and know basically the opposite is true, leading to a lot of saved time on research. So pay very close attention to what they say is the correct advice

 

[ForeverShogo]

The interesting thing is you don't actually need to be demonically possessed to become a vampire. At least if you go by the comics, which had this kind of goofy thing called a Zompire.

Some shit happened that basically made it so the demon that would ordinarily possess your corpse couldn't do that anymore. You still turned into a vampire, but without a soul or the possessing demon there was no guiding intelligence. You operated purely on instinct and basically turned into a mindless beast.

 

[Stsword]

Considering that episode where Buffy's college roommate borrowed her soul without even asking first, the soul is not the mind, but influences the mind, just as the body isn't the mind but can influence it (you know, brain tumors, hormones or lack thereof, ingesting mind altering chemicals, etc).

While without a soul, Buffy became bitchy and willing to commit violence against her friends to get what she wants, and there were no signs that her roommate who was using her soul as camouflage to avoid her family becoming like Buffy mentally.

So I figure that Darla's resurrection worked by nature that despite the vampire transformation, there was only one mind with one brain, so the fact that her human soul would be hundreds of years out of date was just irrelevant.

After her re-siring if Darla 2.0 had a new or the old demon possessing her, well I doubt it makes any functional difference.

 

[jaelin910]

It's just better to ignore anything Vaermina says in this thread, as it's almost always wrong. Like, the complete opposite of the reality of the situation.

Click to shrink...

I don't know them, and I'm honestly not gonna judge them on hear say, but that actually seems like a really useful thing to have. Just take what they say, and know basically the opposite is true, leading to a lot of saved time on research. So pay very close attention to what they say is the correct advise

Click to shrink...

Yep. Personally, I get pretty annoyed at people saying to just put Vaermina on ignore or whatever because people providing corrections clarifies things for me. I do learn things when Vaermina says stuff even though it's wrong.

 

[RichardWhereat]

So I figure that Darla's resurrection worked by nature that despite the vampire transformation, there was only one mind with one brain, so the fact that her human soul would be hundreds of years out of date was just irrelevant.

After her re-siring if Darla 2.0 had a new or the old demon possessing her, well I doubt it makes any functional difference.

Click to shrink...

The magic ritual that brought her back though, it could have written to bring the demon that inhabited the body, alongside the body itself. Instead of being written to rip a soul from its reward.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Fun to see John Constantine...

If you want to put KL ('K' for 'Black', as used in 'CMYK') back on his feet then he probably needs a soul copy-paste... Fortunately, in a DC Universe, a 'soul' seems to be a magical structure, so this should be feasible, as there's a number of his alternates that (now) have souls that could be copied from (though, I'd avoid Red Lantern...).

Whether a Buffy-verse soul operates in the same way as a DC one is an interesting question... In some settings the World Gate (or other means) used for universe-hopping fixes this issue on entry/exit - sneaky or paranoid people might wish to avoid this process, but, not being compatible with your target universe could be... unfortunate. (How? Well, if the World Gate was fixing something like a matter/anti-matter issue...)

It'd be interesting to see if Black Lantern (as he now is) would get his emotional response back if he got a soul, as described above. Souls certainly seem to have some effect on behaviour. Once he's his own soul, and possibly after you check his memory is backed-up in that, it's probably safe to de-Black Ring him, and actually restore him to life. You've certainly got enough DNA, and with the right approach you could probably take a second (hopefully redundant) backup of his mind, in case the living body turns out to be initially blank.

Giving him a spare Orange Ring & Lantern, then sending him 'home' to the Buffy-verse, then looks a lot more reasonable... And, he's probably developed his Orange 'I want!' quite well, functioning without any emotional motivation...

 

[WereDragon]

16th May 2011
14:10 GMT -5

Click to shrink...

I suspect they will come to regret this.

So is SI Paul not going to offer Black Paul a ring that doesn't run on entropy? He can't provide right this moment but it is certainly within his abilities medium term.

 

[Doccer]

You are making the mistake of treating an uninformed characters statement as fact.

Hint, if what is seen doesn't match up with what characters claim, it's the characters that are wrong.

Click to shrink...

Can you provide an example of this being incorrect?

 

[Doccer]

She snarls.

"Yes."

Click to shrink...

Neat trick to be angry while filled with Black Light. I like it though.

 

[Darko]

I suspect they will come to regret this.

So is SI Paul not going to offer Black Paul a ring that doesn't run on entropy? He can't provide right this moment but it is certainly within his abilities medium term.

Click to shrink...

Zoat said the paragon is going to try and create a white ring sometimes in the future to probably help bring back someone to life, so maybe he will try and bring back Zaul.

It would be difficult for them to have contact though.
For example they could all be sent back to their respective universe and while they may remember what happened, they would not be able to contact each other.

 

[Breadnaught]

It would be difficult for them to have contact though.
For example they could all be sent back to their respective universe and while they may remember what happened, they would not be able to contact each other.

Click to shrink...

Krona already tried and failed to grab Grayven, so he'll probably come around at some point, when the current pony business is taken care of. At least, I'm assuming one of the alt-versions we've seen the most will be involved in the story focused around the alt-versions.

At that point, he'll be able to boomtube to the various alternate realities, once he knows where they are.

 

[Rafin]

I don't know them, and I'm honestly not gonna judge them on hear say, but that actually seems like a really useful thing to have. Just take what they say, and know basically the opposite is true, leading to a lot of saved time on research. So pay very close attention to what they say is the correct advice

Click to shrink...

Sufficient Velocity has this feature where it easily shows all the posts of a single user in the thread you're reading. Use that on the previous With This Ring thread and type Vaermina. You'll find enough evidence to start thinking they are actually running some kind of novelty account trying to consistently be as plausibly wrong as possible.

In many visited fandoms I actually have no clue about the canon state of things, but whenever Vaermina makes any critical statement whatsoever I automatically just wait for the reply correcting them.

 

[Darko]

Krona already tried and failed to grab Grayven, so he'll probably come around at some point, when the current pony business is taken care of. At least, I'm assuming one of the alt-versions we've seen the most will be involved in the story focused around the alt-versions.

At that point, he'll be able to boomtube to the various alternate realities, once he knows where they are.

Click to shrink...

It's possible renegade won't have anything else to do with this Crisis business, seeing as Krona may be wary of him and may already have a sufficient number of Paul variants to do what he needs to do.

 

[Gantradies]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The situation is still ongoing and there's still plenty to time for Constantine to Constantine.

I mean, it would be nice if that didn't happen for once, but I'm not lowering my guard until we're sure its over. And probably not even then, because consequences coming along weeks/months/years later is entirely possible too.

Click to shrink...

Maybe golden boy's got the brains to slow/stop the constant luck-theft given the extreme circumstances?
i mean, if the idiot midget manages to trump accidentally creating entropy by just looking at something, ever y evil/psychopathic iteration of golden boy looses their little private feifdom/stops existing as well-this could be one of the few cases John's literally supernaturally bad luck doesn't screw everyone over...

 

[Darko]

Speaking of Golden Boy, I just remembered that the new Fate said his last name was Quinn in the Angelic episode.

In the comics John's mothers maiden name was Quinn.

That whole the new Fate might be the Golden Boy theory may be true.

 

[RedLightZone]

Dude, I can't see over half your fanart.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Dude, I can't see over half your fanart.

Click to shrink...

Assuming that I'm the 'dude' in question, that's because the hosting sites it was originally hosted upon have removed it. I haven't saved them myself, so if you want to see them I can only suggest PMing the original artist.

 

[Mastigos2]

"Yes, we kind of knew that. Went and found the ancestral Earth pony homelands myself!"

Click to shrink...

The key word in that sentence was "Equestria". As in the local country ruled over by the Alicorn sisters has a native tradition of earth pony magic. Not just relearning it from importing it from the other side of the planet

 

[Stsword]

Speaking of Golden Boy, I just remembered that the new Fate said his last name was Quinn in the Angelic episode.

In the comics John's mothers maiden name was Quinn.

That whole the new Fate might be the Golden Boy theory may be true.

Click to shrink...

Zoat, unless he's just been contrary, seems to have read that final issue of Golden Boy's through the lens of "Constantine is a paranoid asshole," which leads to the conclusion that Golden Boy didn't use his Laughing Magician powers to make Constantine's life a living hell, because there was no evidence of such barring the ranting of John Constantine, and again, Constantine = paranoid asshole.

So if he is Golden Boy, then he's more likely to be closer to the most powerful magician in the world who will usher in Great Britain's Golden Age and to know him is to love him and to not know him is to love him from afar than the he's a 'bastard coated bastard with a creamy bastard filling" which is the more standard interpretation (from what I've gathered).

So if it is Golden Boy, it's probably okay.

Now having read that issue myself, lead more towards the bastard coated bastard interpretation for Golden Boy, but I cannot really argue that the other is an invalid conclusion.

 

[Vaermina]

Considering that episode where Buffy's college roommate borrowed her soul without even asking first, the soul is not the mind, but influences the mind, just as the body isn't the mind but can influence it (you know, brain tumors, hormones or lack thereof, ingesting mind altering chemicals, etc).

While without a soul, Buffy became bitchy and willing to commit violence against her friends to get what she wants, and there were no signs that her roommate who was using her soul as camouflage to avoid her family becoming like Buffy mentally.

So I figure that Darla's resurrection worked by nature that despite the vampire transformation, there was only one mind with one brain, so the fact that her human soul would be hundreds of years out of date was just irrelevant.

After her re-siring if Darla 2.0 had a new or the old demon possessing her, well I doubt it makes any functional difference.

Click to shrink...

We have a winner.

 

[Darko]

Zoat, unless he's just been contrary, seems to have read that final issue of Golden Boy's through the lens of "Constantine is a paranoid asshole," which leads to the conclusion that Golden Boy didn't use his Laughing Magician powers to make Constantine's life a living hell, because there was no evidence of such barring the ranting of John Constantine, and again, Constantine = paranoid asshole.

So if he is Golden Boy, then he's more likely to be closer to the most powerful magician in the world who will usher in Great Britain's Golden Age and to know him is to love him and to not know him is to love him from afar than the he's a 'bastard coated bastard with a creamy bastard filling" which is the more standard interpretation (from what I've gathered).

So if it is Golden Boy, it's probably okay.

Now having read that issue myself, lead more towards the bastard coated bastard interpretation for Golden Boy, but I cannot really argue that the other is an invalid conclusion.

Click to shrink...

He did say he wasn't powerful enough to be considered a big league magician like Dr Mist, at least without the Helmet, and that he will wait a few more years to get his power up so that he feels comfortable.

This could indicate that he is either lying or that he is telling the truth, and even if he is the Golden Boy then he may not have been all that powerful to begin with and was just using the synchronicity magic to make himself a success.

Though if he was telling the truth about just being a minor magician that sometimes helped the cops then he could be just a guy whose first name is John and whose last name is Quinn.

There is a small chance that the last name could just be a coincidence.

 

[Stsword]

He did say he wasn't powerful enough to be considered a big league magician like Dr Mist, at least without the Helmet, and that he will wait a few more years to get his power up so that he feels comfortable.

This could indicate that he is either lying or that he is telling the truth, and even if he is the Golden Boy then he may not have been all that powerful to begin with and was just using the synchronicity magic to make himself a success.

Though if he was telling the truth about just being a minor magician that sometimes helped the cops then he could be just a guy whose first name is John and whose last name is Quinn.

There is a small chance that the last name could just be a coincidence.

Click to shrink...

Separating himself from Constantine might have weakened him, so he could be Golden Boy and not technically lying about his current power level.

I figure Golden Boy was basically playing Mary Sue with his powers, yeah.

For one thing, his reality should have local equivalents of the likes of Thessaly who eats gods for breakfast and Tim Hunter who as the Merlin is literally the embodiment of all magic, and well being the Laughing Magician basically makes one a cosmic tier bullshitter.

But I wasn't advocating for Quinn being Golden Boy, just pointing out that if he is that doesn't necessarily mean that Paul will be stating "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" as per Firefly.

 

[Darko]

Separating himself from Constantine might have weakened him, so he could be Golden Boy and not technically lying about his current power level.

I figure Golden Boy was basically playing Mary Sue with his powers, yeah.

For one thing, his reality should have local equivalents of the likes of Thessaly who eats gods for breakfast and Tim Hunter who as the Merlin is literally the embodiment of all magic, and well being the Laughing Magician basically makes one a cosmic tier bullshitter.

But I wasn't advocating for Quinn being Golden Boy, just pointing out that if he is that doesn't necessarily mean that Paul will be stating "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" as per Firefly.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure that Circe is Earth 16 version of Thessalay.
There was a scene where she was looking for a place to make her a school with renegade and was wearing some disguise. The link showed a picture of Thessaly.

Also while Thessaly 'eats gods' as you said, she may have gotten rusty, as most of them could depend more on their power rather than cunning, so maybe she got a bit overconfident, and well that was all the Golden Boy needed to get rid of her.

Tim Hunter may be basically Merlin come again, but he is also a young kid that while has a lot of power, lacks the skill and knowledge, as well as the cunning that someone like the Golden Boy possesses.

Remember Constantine has destroyed extremely ancient and powerful beings with just his cunning and a few tricks, so if his brother has even half his cunning then getting rid of the two previously mentioned magic users could be well in his capability. He may have found it easier if he was the better brother.

 

[RedLightZone]

Assuming that I'm the 'dude' in question, that's because the hosting sites it was originally hosted upon have removed it. I haven't saved them myself, so if you want to see them I can only suggest PMing the original artist.

Click to shrink...

Damn... Oh well. Nice story.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

Web space isn't that expensive, and if you jump though the right hoops you can get 'free' space (remember, you will be paying for it, somehow). So, if someone wanted to they could attempt to gather all the WTR art, and host it. Then, post the link here. No, I'm not volunteering.

 

[Xelloss]

Assuming that I'm the 'dude' in question, that's because the hosting sites it was originally hosted upon have removed it. I haven't saved them myself, so if you want to see them I can only suggest PMing the original artist.

Click to shrink...

After a quick check, my scribble work of art has indeed been removed. here it is :

 

[Stsword]

Pretty sure that Circe is Earth 16 version of Thessalay.
There was a scene where she was looking for a place to make her a school with renegade and was wearing some disguise. The link showed a picture of Thessaly.

Click to shrink...

I was talking about the actual Golden Boy from Hellblazer, who was claimed to be the most powerful wizard in the world and led Great Britain into a Golden Age.

So the fellow Vertigo character Thessaly would be Thessaly, and as for Tim Hunter since John Constantine aged in real time, that meant that when Constantine had his final confrontation with Golden Boy, John had met Tim Hunter 14 years before.

Making definitive statements about a character that may or may not be introduced in this story and Zoat is free to change in any way he wants since John Constantine isn't even shown to exist in the the canon of YJ would be futile.

 

[RedLightZone]

After a quick check, my scribble work of art has indeed been removed. here it is :

Click to shrink...

Thank you!

 

[Mr Zoat]

16th May 2011
15:42 GMT -5

I smile at this parallel's version of Wonder Woman.

"I realise that I'm pushing my luck here-" She smiles faintly. "-but is there any chance at all you could spend a year or two on my parallel once this is over?"

She raises her eyebrows very slightly. "Why do you ask?"

"We.. don't have much of a superhero tradition. Everyone with super powers gets them from a substance called Compound V, either injected or inherited. And… For various reasons, the people who are referred to as superheroes have never developed the skills or moral probity to truly be superheroes." Her expression grows somewhat more serious. "The least bad are well-meaning celebrities with powers; the worst… Well, there was a… An event two years ago and they're mostly dead now, but we're left with a void in leadership and direction. I'm doing what I can, but I don't have the experience or charisma to.. bring as many people as I need to with me."

"You shouldn't underestimate yourself."

"Yes… But… I'm fully aware that my staff has altered my mind and that another version of me who hasn't had his mind altered collects the skulls of his fallen enemies so that he can decorate his home with them. I'm not even sure that I'm the sort of person who should be in such a position. And while I can probably… Succeed in managing something like what I'm trying to achieve eventually, the presence of you, or… If you can't spare the time, another highly motivated and capable League member would speed things up considerably."

She nods thoughtfully.

"Prepare a full brief, and I will give it the consideration it deserves."

I smile. "Thank you. Were..? Have you fought Krona before?"

"No, though I was involved in both the event which merged many parallel universes into one, and in the event where the Society of Super-Villains attempted to recreate them. I am all too aware of the devastation such events can cause. Even if the people involved are all too likely to forget them in the aftermath."

I frown. "Is there a.. way to know if you've had a memory erased like that? I've long.. thought of memories as a vital part of a person's existence, and the idea that I'd just.. forget my whole reality is one I find extremely troubling."

She nods.

"If it is any comfort, I met a version of myself who had been part of a universe which was unmade. Though we were different in some ways, we were still recognisably the same woman."

"I appreciate the thought, but I'm recognisably the same man as the heart-ripping vampire and the skull collector with the blood-horns. Other than the fact that we appear to be naturals at being Lanterns, it… Doesn't really reassure me."

16th May 2011
15:42 GMT -5

The local Koriand'r regards me with a warm fascination, but I find my eyes drawn to her hair. It's mountainous. I can't.. smell any hairspray-.

"Most people do not stare at my hair." She smiles. "Why do you find it so fascinating?"

"Tamaraneans.. in my parallel, their hair doesn't get quite that… Voluminous. Do you do.. something special to it?"

She raises her right hand and runs it through her bouffant, forcing the local Garfield and… Some guy in blue armour I don't recognise, to back up to avoid being haired.

"It has been like this for my entire life."

"So it didn't get like that when the psions..?"

She shakes her head, making blue armour sidestep. "No. Most Tamaraneans have hair like this." She smiles curiously. "What is Tamaranean hair like where you are from?"

"Our Koriand'r's hair is completely straight. No volume to it at all. She has the.. fringe cut short and the rest brushed straight back. Komand'r's the same. There are… A few Tamaraneans with bushy hair, but it's not really a… Common trait."

"It is strange to hear anyone speak of my sister with such affection."

"My.. Komand'r isn't your Komand'r. Mine.. is more about personal freedom than domination."

Koriand'r smiles, apparently genuinely pleased.

"How long have you been together?"

"About a year and a half. She's so… Passionate. The way she.. throws herself into everything she does, probably… Because it's all new, all.. something she couldn't do growing up with Vega being.. Vega. Being with her is what makes all the killing… Have concrete meaning for me. And trying to keep up with her has made me live more than I did before meeting her."

"Then I am glad that you have found one another."

I nod, smiling. "Thank you."

"And how does the other me feel about it?"

"She finds it delightful in the abstract, but she gets a bit disturbed about exactly how we express our affection for one another."

Garfield snorts in amusement, while Koriand'r seems more confused.

"On my Tamaran, my people are completely open with our feelings, both in what they are and in how we demonstrate them. I would not think that there is much you could do that would disturb me."

I suppose that projectile vomiting is a pretty open display. Super strength stomach evacuations are not for the faint of heart.

"Some girls just don't like excarnation, I guess."

16th May 2011
15:42 GMT -5

"I've never been undead before."

Jade Nguyen examines her right hand, and the power ring upon it.

"Okay?"

"I don't know how old I am. I used the materioptikon to live so many lives, I never kept track of how many subjective years I was integrating back into the whole. But I never tried undeath. If a version of me died, I just wrote them off."

"I don't understand, I'm afraid."

"On my Earth, a supervillain named Doctor Destiny brought the entire population of the Earth into a dream realm he could control. When the Justice League defeated him he lost control of the tool he used to do it: the materioptikon. I took it, and used it myself. I created illusory worlds and lived illusory lives, becoming stronger and more knowledgeable until that began to lose its appeal."

"To what end?"

"I-." She hesitates. "Personal protection. I hate feeling vulnerable, so I tried to make sure that I never.. would. I… Don't feel that way now. Is that because of you?"

"It's hard to feel, as a Black Lantern. You'll need to feed your ring a few fearful hearts."

She shakes her head.

"I'm not keeping this me. Once we free them, I'll merge with another version of me. Then you can have your ring back."

"That… Might… Ah…"

"It's worked through every change I've gone through so far. Including death." She looks out into the briefing theatre at the superheroes who are filing in. "Let's get this briefing done so we can all go back to normalcy."

I frown at her.

"Are you sure that you really want to?"

 

[thebishop8]

Well, there was a… An event two years and they're mostly dead now,

Click to shrink...

Add "ago" after "years".

I've long.. though of memories as a vital part of a person's existence,

Click to shrink...

Change "though" to "thought".