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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
"You could go back and change time, but all that would do is create a new future separate to the one you knew. You could just go and live in that new future and from your point of view it would be exactly as if you'd changed your own history. And no one else would know anything had happened apart from you disappearing."
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I wonder how this is going to interact with Doctor Sivana's whole ... thing with the evil raider fairies from the future.

Because if I'm understanding the mechanics of this correctly, that's kind of been fixed, in that now every time travel event means the traveler's future is no longer your future. Your future might be similar, but each time traveler comes from a timeline in which they did not travel time.
 
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I've got to admit that Imperial OL getting his happy end is a silver lining to the otherwise (in my opinion) lackluster arc. Will we find out how he deals with time traveler Savage this time around?

Lucidum said:
I can't help but be happy for Maul... but I have the sinking suspicion that the longer he stays in his timeline the more discontent and disheartened he's going to become. He spent an indescribable amount of time 'saving' their timeline literally by an act comparable to a god and recreated his timeline, I'm uncertain how the higher-ups in his fairly hierarchal society are going to feel about that.
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You mean after using truth magic to verify that he spent centuries and risked everything with a single-minded focus in order to save their empire, their planet, and every single life upon it? I don't know. Maybe they name a month after him. Or gift him England. Or build him a giant naked diamond statue in the middle of the Bialian desert.
 
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Also interesting is that, as pointed out in The Time Ships every time travel device is more properly called a universe creation device. And that as such an exponential explosion in the number of universes will result
 
Mastigos2 said:
I wonder how this is going to interact with Doctor Sivana's whole ... thing with the evil raider fairies from the future.

Because if I'm understanding the mechanics of this correctly, that's kind of been fixed, in that now every time travel event means the traveler's future is no longer your future. Your future might be similar, but each time traveler comes from a timeline in which they did not travel time.
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That assumes it worked perfectly, which is highly unlikely because things never work perfectly in the DC multiverse.
 
Vaermina said:
That assumes it worked perfectly, which is highly unlikely because things never work perfectly in the DC multiverse.
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In fact Sivana should be OL's first stop now that he's back in his original universe, for this very reason. Hell, maybe we can get an update from Georgia about the report he commissioned on why Reed Richards is still Useless in this universe?

Hell, maybe if we're really lucky OL himself will get off his ass and stop being so useless? Yeah, he doesn't know how to run a business himself, but there are thousands of idealistic business people out there who'd be ecstatic to work for and manage a not-for-profit VC company with effectively unlimited money to bankroll transformative technologies; they just tend to be broke themselves.
 
jaelin910 said:
You have yet to give any reason to believe that it wasn't Krona.
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You mean other then the fact that Pariah only appears when something bad actually happens and not when something bad might happen but is prevented?


TheEyes said:
In fact Sivana should be OL's first stop now that he's back in his original universe, for this very reason. Hell, maybe we can get an update from Georgia about the report he commissioned on why Reed Richards is still Useless in this universe?

Hell, maybe if we're really lucky OL himself will get off his ass and stop being so useless? Yeah, he doesn't know how to run a business himself, but there are thousands of idealistic business people out there who'd be ecstatic to work for and manage a not-for-profit VC company with effectively unlimited money to bankroll transformative technologies; they just tend to be broke themselves.
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It's really too bad Paul didn't see how much better Peter is doing then him on that front.
 
TheEyes said:
In fact Sivana should be OL's first stop now that he's back in his original universe, for this very reason. Hell, maybe we can get an update from Georgia about the report he commissioned on why Reed Richards is still Useless in this universe?

Hell, maybe if we're really lucky OL himself will get off his ass and stop being so useless? Yeah, he doesn't know how to run a business himself, but there are thousands of idealistic business people out there who'd be ecstatic to work for and manage a not-for-profit VC company with effectively unlimited money to bankroll transformative technologies; they just tend to be broke themselves.
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Really hope the talk with Sybarite will give him some ideas on that front.

He can recruit someone skilled to run his business while he bankrolls them and he can make sure they are committed to the work with his empathic vision so they don't do something stupid and evil like Luthor would.

Luthor may be one of the worlds best businessmen, but he is also a somewhat emotionally stunted individual that would have to have OL being there most of the time to hold his hand so that he doesn't do somethings stupid, like what renegade is doing with his Luthor.

So unless paragon decides to alter how Luthor thinks with his ring his safest bet to get countries to advance is by hiring some skilled businessmen to basically run a schitzo tech development company, like Peter is doing.

On the subject of the Sivanas and the Reed Richards thing this episode could include Boss Smiley.

Remember he is responsible for the world not advancing through his actions in politics so maybe this episode will have paragon finally confront him and beat him or just fight him, assuming it is a paragon episode, remember renegade is far more involved with politics than the paragon is.
 
I would respectfully remind you that Ted Kord exists.

Edit: No, sorry, I should expand on this.

Sybarite decided that things wouldn't change unless he forced them every step of the way. He he aided his primary lover in essentially taking a continent hostage and forcing through the changes he wanted to make.

The SI on the other hand believes that if he nudges things along a little, other people will take advantage of the opportunities and cause the changes he wishes to see. This pays off less well in the short term, but he believes that in the long term the results will benefit society more. Ted Kord is less his vector for ramming change through and more his showroom model; a way of demonstrating to other entrepreneurs what they could achieve.

This is because I am not Ayn Rand. I do not believe that if the author insert stopped doing their thing that everyone else would gormlessly wait for them to start again. If there is a vacuum of leadership then leaders will emerge.
 
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Darko said:
Really hope the talk with Sybarite will give him some ideas on that front.

He can recruit someone skilled to run his business while he bankrolls them and he can make sure they are committed to the work with his empathic vision so they don't do something stupid and evil like Luthor would.

Luthor may be one of the worlds best businessmen, but he is also a somewhat emotionally stunted individual that would have to have OL being there most of the time to hold his hand so that he doesn't do somethings stupid, like what renegade is doing with his Luthor.

So unless paragon decides to alter how Luthor thinks with his ring his safest bet to get countries to advance is by hiring some skilled businessmen to basically run a schitzo tech development company, like Peter is doing.

On the subject of the Sivanas and the Reed Richards thing this episode could include Boss Smiley.

Remember he is responsible for the world not advancing through his actions in politics so maybe this episode will have paragon finally confront him and beat him or just fight him, assuming it is a paragon episode, remember renegade is far more involved with politics than the paragon is.
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The obvious thing to do is to build a Luthor-bot, that is actually sane, and get him to run your business. So you can tell the difference between the two give him a full head of red hair, and a goatee beard.

There's no way that could go wrong. :)
 
Mr Zoat said:
I would respectfully remind you that Ted Kord exists.
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Paragon also said that while he is a brilliant inventor and scientist he can also become easily distracted and is much more happier and productive working in a lab rather than attending business meetings unless it is to present some new invention.

OL needs to find someone that can focus on the business side of things while Ted works on the tech side.

Roulette seems like a good candidate if her work with Sybarite is any indication.

She is cunning, skilled, ruthless, and unlike Luthor who is possibly more of these things, she lacks his issues and is primarily interested in making money, and seeing as new advanced technologies seem to be hitting the market she could want to get into that pool to make herself rich.

OL can count on her to run the business, count on Ted to make new tech and he can make sure himself that they advance the planet

EDIT: I red your edit, but the problem with that is that some of those leaders than can emerge could do more harm then good in the long run.

Like say Vandal Savage, who apparently bought the rights to the Cosmic Converter technology and was sitting on them to spite his old foe in an act of petty revenge and is now releasing it.

This act, while it may improve society, is also giving the caveman more power. Power that he in his stupid caveman brain will most likely misuse in one of his crazy schemes that he is convinced is the height of his 'wisdom', thus harming society.

Though this isn't OL's fault as he doesn't know who really owns the rights to the tech and just thinks it is Stagg Industries that does, not knowing it is really Savage.

The same can happen with other leaders who may try to follow OL's method, but in a halfassed way than can easily harm society.
 
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Darko said:
EDIT: I red your edit, but the problem with that is that some of those leaders than can emerge could do more harm then good in the long run.

Like say Vandal Savage, who apparently bought the rights to the Cosmic Converter technology and was sitting on them to spite his old foe in an act of petty revenge and is now releasing it.

This act, while it may improve society, is also giving the caveman more power. Power that he in his stupid caveman brain will most likely misuse in one of his crazy schemes that he is convinced is the height of his 'wisdom', thus harming society.

Though this isn't OL's fault as he doesn't know who really owns the rights to the tech and just thinks it is Stagg Industries that does, not knowing it is really Savage.

The same can happen with other leaders who may try to follow OL's method, but in a halfassed way than can easily harm society.
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Sure, Savage gets a little more powerful, but everyone gets cheaper electricity. Things become possible which were formerly impossible due to their costs. Suppliers of gas and coal and oil become less powerful, and not... Wanting to break the modern politics ban, some of those aren't all that pleasant either. And actually, Savage becoming more powerful by doing things which actually benefit people might encourage him to use similar approaches in future; he's not bad because he's Savage, he's bad because of the bad things he does.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Sure, Savage gets a little more powerful, but everyone gets cheaper electricity. Things become possible which were formerly impossible due to their costs. Suppliers of gas and coal and oil become less powerful, and not... Wanting to break the modern politics ban, some of those aren't all that pleasant either. And actually, Savage becoming more powerful by doing things which actually benefit people might encourage him to use similar approaches in future; he's not bad because he's Savage, he's bad because of the bad things he does.
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He actually, in some continuities, has accumulated a lot of soft power. Is just that since he doesn't age, keeping it is complicated and his mayor desire is still to rule the world.

Thanks to Hypertime there is now a DC Earth were one of his time traveling plans was actually successful.

Thanks to Hypertime, there is now a DC Earth were Hall Jordan Parallax is the ruler and the other GLs are all dead, even Kyle.

Thanks to Hypertime, Superboy Prime is back home on an Earth that ignores what he did, since he went back in time and bankrupted DC Comics there.

And so on.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Sure, Savage gets a little more powerful, but everyone gets cheaper electricity. Things become possible which were formerly impossible due to their costs. Suppliers of gas and coal and oil become less powerful, and not... Wanting to break the modern politics ban, some of those aren't all that pleasant either. And actually, Savage becoming more powerful by doing things which actually benefit people might encourage him to use similar approaches in future; he's not bad because he's Savage, he's bad because of the bad things he does.
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I think you're being a bit too much optimistic there with the whole Savage becoming better thing, to the point that Saint Walker may consider telling you to ease up on the the hope for a bit.

Savage has been in his supervillain mindset phase for so long that I'm pretty sure he's going to fuck up the world no matter what.

I know that the Savage in that JL animated episode got his shit together, but that was only after he destroyed the world and it took him tens of thousands of years to get to that mindset.
 
I don't get how many Jades there are. There's actual Jade, the Jade that exists a short bit in the her future his past then it sounds like there is another Jade?
 
Doccer said:
I don't get how many Jades there are. There's actual Jade, the Jade that exists a short bit in the her future his past then it sounds like there is another Jade?
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One of the Jades he mentioned in this update is Jade Yifei.

She's basically the Mandate universe version of Jade, Alan Scott's daughter from New Earth continuity.

She is the current green lantern on Mandate Earth, aside from Fang Zhifu, though I'm not sure if she is an actual member of the GL corps, or is just wielding the ring Alan Scott would have ended up with in the main universe.
 
Doccer said:
I don't get how many Jades there are. There's actual Jade, the Jade that exists a short bit in the her future his past then it sounds like there is another Jade?
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It's been a while since you read the Mandate updates, I take it.

Mandate Paul is in a relationship with Mandate Jade Nguyen as Pauls tend to do.

He's also attracted the attention of the Mandate Earth equivalent of Jade Yifei, and they were dealing with both the regular issues of becoming a thruple but rank issues, since at the start of this Yifei outranks them both. Mandate Paul's promotion came later.
 
Does Time Trapper Paul know about what Paragon did to Nabu?

I believe all the Pauls were taken at different points in their timelines, unless I'm mistaken, so I wonder if he had the time to spread the knowledge of the Mandated-Nabu's organizational network to the Earth-16 Pauls who are facing that issue (I also really wish they'd actually said something in canon about Atlanteans being incompatible with Nabu's magic or something, because that seems like such a gaping plot hole, in Kent Nelson's original search at the very least).
 
DrThoth said:
Does Time Trapper Paul know about what Paragon did to Nabu?

I believe all the Pauls were taken at different points in their timelines, unless I'm mistaken, so I wonder if he had the time to spread the knowledge of the Mandated-Nabu's organizational network to the Earth-16 Pauls who are facing that issue (I also really wish they'd actually said something in canon about Atlanteans being incompatible with Nabu's magic or something, because that seems like such a gaping plot hole, in Kent Nelson's original search at the very least).
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He probably is aware of what happened to him if he has seen so many timelines.

Atlanteans are not incompatible with Nabu as shown when Kaldur wore the Helmet to fight Wotan.

The various versions of Earth 16 were probably taken sometime after the whole thing with Nabu happened so now it is either pointless, seeing as Nabu may be dead, or he has a host who he has a more symbiotic relationship with, like what may have happened in Common Sense universe Earth 16, or some of the versions of Paul don't care about that situation because they are not close to the Team and may not morally and ethically care about what Nabu is doing, like say for example Sybarite.

Common sense and Sybarite seem to be the only Paul's from Earth 16 that were shown aside from Paragon and Renegade.

One may have come to an arrangement with Nabu in finding a host and the other one probably doesn't care about what Nabu is doing and probably considers it the Leagues fault a bit for not finding him a host sooner.
 
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Darko said:
I think you're being a bit too much optimistic there with the whole Savage becoming better thing, to the point that Saint Walker may consider telling you to ease up on the the hope for a bit.

Savage has been in his supervillain mindset phase for so long that I'm pretty sure he's going to fuck up the world no matter what.

I know that the Savage in that JL animated episode got his shit together, but that was only after he destroyed the world and it took him tens of thousands of years to get to that mindset.
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Agreed, he technically got his wish and ended ruling the World because he was the last thinking being left.

Hence why he wanted to die and helped Superman.
 
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Darko said:
Atlanteans are not incompatible with Nabu as shown when Kaldur wore the Helmet to fight Wotan.

The various versions of Earth 16 were probably taken sometime after the whole thing with Nabu happened so now it is either pointless, seeing as Nabu may be dead, or he has a host who he has a more symbiotic relationship with, like what may have happened in Common Sense universe Earth 16, or some of the versions of Paul don't care about that situation because they are not close to the Team and may not morally and ethically care about what Nabu is doing, like say for example Sybarite.
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I actually forgot about Kaldur wearing the Helmet, which makes me even more frustrated. And it's literally been several years in-canon since Nabu took over Zatara and it's just a source of intermittent angst for Zatanna without anything being done about it (though common sense and logic really are the rarest of superpowers, so I mostly just turn off my brain when watching the later seasons of YJ now).

I also don't remember what happened with Nabu in the Common Sense-timeline, or if he was even brought up at all- Klarion isn't a problem there anymore, I believe, so things like Roanoake should never have happened (I wonder if Wotan was elevated into the Light as a replacement or something).
 
DrThoth said:
I actually forgot about Kaldur wearing the Helmet, which makes me even more frustrated. And it's literally been several years in-canon since Nabu took over Zatara and it's just a source of intermittent angst for Zatanna without anything being done about it (though common sense and logic really are the rarest of superpowers, so I mostly just turn off my brain when watching the later seasons of YJ now).

I also don't remember what happened with Nabu in the Common Sense-timeline, or if he was even brought up at all- Klarion isn't a problem there anymore, I believe, so things like Roanoake should never have happened (I wonder if Wotan was elevated into the Light as a replacement or something).
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There are two omakes that show what common sense would do with the Nabu thing.

Just check the omake index on the first page.
 
Darko said:
There are two omakes that show what common sense would do with the Nabu thing.

Just check the omake index on the first page.
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I vaguely remember those and am reading them now, are they accepted as canon?

Edit: I finished reading them, and I assume not, especially given that the second post contradicts the first by killing Teekl and banishing Klarion in his first appearance (which is consistent with what Zoat said happened, I believe).
 
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