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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
They don't really have one. Or at least, not more than Superman has with any random superhero he met a few times.
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Thought that they'd have a friendly one after Supes offered to help him with the ring.

Is Cursitor Doom on the same level of magic power with the likes of Giovanni Zatara, or is he stronger, like those Roanoke sorcerers?
 
Darko said:
Thought that they'd have a friendly one after Supes offered to help him with the ring.
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Superman 12 is a really nice guy. The fact that he offered to help someone doesn't imply a deeper relationship.
Is Cursitor Doom on the same level of magic power with the likes of Giovanni Zatara, or is he stronger, like those Roanoke sorcerers?
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The Zatara family backwards talking is OP. Without that, then even outside of his place of power Cursitor Doom would be more capable. Doom is not a raw power magician.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Superman 12 is a really nice guy. The fact that he offered to help someone doesn't imply a deeper relationship.
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Supes offering to help him when he complained about his ring could be seen as the beginning of a friendship, especially since he probably didn't have many people offering to help him with it out of the kindness of their heart.

He was also very hopeful when Supes came back from the future.

Mr Zoat said:
The Zatara family backwards talking is OP. Without that, then even outside of his place of power Cursitor Doom would be more capable. Doom is not a raw power magician.
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So Doom is more of a skill magician.

Probably more powerful than a street magician, although not on the level of the sorcerers Klarion gathered for Roanoke, but incredibly good at using the magic he has.
 
Ace Dreamer said:
Philosophy? The Queen of Sciences?
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I consider the relationship between philosophy and science roughly the same as the relationship between alchemy and chemistry, or astrology and astronomy. How do you find out if you're in Plato's Cave? You cut the damn chain and turn around to make an empirical measurement.
 
Darko said:
So Doom is more of a skill magician.

Probably more powerful than a street magician, although not on the level of the sorcerers Klarion gathered for Roanoke, but incredibly good at using the magic he has.
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Doom is an interesting character, and if you look at the source material he's probably 1000yrs+ old. If he runs into one of Homo Magi I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have a fast and thorough 'make voiceless' spell, and a burly assistant, in the wings, wearing good quality kicking boots. You don't survive to his age without being ready for stuff.

Now, if you just want to have a quiet cup of tea with him, no problems. :)

Just don't bother him on one of his off-decades. :)
 
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Darko said:
Ok, I gotta ask, but have you actually been reading this story, or not?

Paul has spent time in Atlantis, is in contact with several knowledgeable magic users, one of which has what is possibly the largest library of arcane knowledge in existence, courtesy of its former owner being a space traveling alien Lord of Order who most likely also brought knowledge of magic from other planets, has acquired a great deal of knowledge about magic, has a database made by an ancient race that has encountered millions of civilizations, several of which were most likely magic using ones, he's been having a former Atlantean city explore the connection between the material universe and the Dreaming for him etc.

As for why he didn't assume they wouldn't operate under the same restrictions as Earth magic users, that can be explained as him using his previously acquired knowledge from his many, many sources on how mortal magic users can operate, and despite their nature, the Star Conquerors are at the end of the day still mortal magic users, with just a few Chaos modifications made.

Forget what Silverias said, you don't need a gutter for all your painfully ironic statements, you need a continent wide sewage system.
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All of which is meaningless because they never tested things around pluto, and they don't know everything there is to know about magic.
 
Vaermina said:
All of which is meaningless because they never tested things around pluto, and they don't know everything there is to know about magic.
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Let's see... I guess you believe that
  1. We have jackshit on the Sun, since we haven't conducted tests on the big ball of fire
  2. The Big Bang probably is just made up
  3. Entropy is not a universal phenomenon
  4. Einstein's theories had no actual basis in prior knowledge, and it was simply by luck that he was a hundred percent accurate in his predictions.
After all, we never tested these things where/when they happened, and we don't know everything there is to know about how the universe works.

Miss me with that 'God-of-the-gaps' style argument.
 
Vaermina said:
All of which is meaningless because they never tested things around pluto, and they don't know everything there is to know about magic.
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Dear god, you really do enjoy trying to act like you
actually know anything, do you?

The knowledge they have isn't meaningless you idiot, the chance that Pluto is somehow completely different magic wise than other planets, or whatever Pluto is classified these days, is extremely unlikely you moron, they know a lot about magic, as they are a civilization of magic users, an extremely ancient magic user and other such high qualifications you complete and utter simpleton.

We know you can make intelligent statements on occasion, given the good points you raised against Tangseid and his evil shit, so you can make more such statements.

Trying to actually use your brain may seem frightening, but please do it. You may find tha it's a whole lot easier to convince people to agree with you if you actually used your brain on more than just the rare occasion.
 
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Idkusername said:
Let's see... I guess you believe that
  1. We have jackshit on the Sun, since we haven't conducted tests on the big ball of fire
  2. The Big Bang probably is just made up
  3. Entropy is not a universal phenomenon
  4. Einstein's theories had no actual basis in prior knowledge, and it was simply by luck that he was a hundred percent accurate in his predictions.
After all, we never tested these things where/when they happened, and we don't know everything there is to know about how the universe works.

Miss me with that 'God-of-the-gaps' style argument.
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The sun is plasma not fire.

The Big Bang is just the currently leading theory of many.

Entropy is only a universal constant under the assumption that the universe is a closed system.

And Einstein has been wrong about a number of things.

The most famous was his idea about the cosmological constant, which he ended up having to throw out after it was discovered that the speed at which the universe was expanding is actually increasing.

Of course all this is meaningless, because we aren't dealing with a long term abstract theoretical, but an immediate possibility that includes the words "If the assumption is wrong a lot of people might die horribly."

And on a note, there's no down side to assuming you might be wrong, other then not being able to sound like the smartest person in the room by claiming a theory as absolute fact.
 
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Vaermina said:
The sun is plasma not fire.
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Really? That's the hill you want to die on? Sure, I can oblige.

It's a rhetorical device. English, motherfucker. Do you speak it?

The Big Bang is just the currently leading theory of many.
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...uh, no. We're debating what happened before the Big Bang, whether it had happened before, whether it will happen again, or if it might be different than what we initially thought. But no one's contesting that the Big Bang happened.

Entropy is only a universal constant under the assumption that the universe is a closed system.
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No, entropy is not a universal constant of any kind. The only time entropy is constant is when the system is closed and all processes can be reversed. Firstly, the universe fulfils the first qualifier, I'm not sure about the second, and I'm not qualified to make a statement about that. But given that the general consensus is that the heat death of the universe is a thing, I'm going to assume no. So it's not even a constant in that regard.

And Einstein has been wrong about a number of things.

The most famous was his idea about the cosmological constant, which he ended up having to throw out after it was discovered that the speed at which the universe was expanding is actually increasing.
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Uh huh. Look to my above quote about not being disingenuous. You knew perfectly well I was talking about relativistic physics. One of Einstein's most famous quotes is 'God does not play dice with universe' when asked about quantum physics, and look at where the field is now.

Of course all this is meaningless, because we aren't dealing with a long term abstract theoretical, but an immediate possibility that includes the words "If the assumption is wrong a lot of people might die horribly."
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Then why are you bothering to counter? You clearly didn't see the point of my response, which was to poke a hole in your fallacious logic, as I said. You were using the classic argument from ignorance.

And on a note, there's no down side to assuming you might be wrong, other then not being able to sound like the smartest person in the room by claiming a theory as absolute fact.
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Let me think for a minute. Yes, ignoring verified research from multiple trustworthy sources, some of which have access to more than a millennium of academia on the subject, when on a time-sensitive mission, on the extremely negligible chance that he might be wrong is the right thing to do.

So, lets sum it up. You missed the point by a mile, went on to counter my off-the-head examples, and the completely wrong part of the example to boot, incorrectly, then lampshade the pointlessness of your own post, and top it off with a classic that can compete with Lewis Caroll and James Joyce in surreality, without any of positives.

Why do I even bother?

Vaermina said:
And Paul has no way to check every single possible use magic to see if there's one that might allow it.
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No, of course, one of the fundamental rules of magic established in the story might be wrong due to MUH HEADCANON. Magic is part of the system that generates it, and can no more violate that than energy be created.
 
Plutonian (part 17)
  • Threadmarks
    • 12th April
    11:56 GMT

    "…sections have reported in."

    The construct of Batman nods as Major Adams gestures to the containment device I built for the Star Hunters. Physical restraints, telepath suppression, some of Lantern Khan's robot men-at-arms and… My attempt at a ward. In theory a way for the Ophidian to feed on any spell they try to create, just in case they're not as tapped out as I think they are. I'll get Dr Balewa to replace it with something Earth-appropriate if that's where we take them.

    "Eight of the medium-sized Star Conquerors are on board and we've got some of Manga Khan's robots-"

    .-.. --- .-. -.. .-.. .- -. - . .-. -.

    "-keeping watch on them, but they're not doing anything. Whatever magic they were using, looks like they've run out. Orange-. Illustres, thinks these cages will hold them until Doctor Mist can make something more permanent."

    "Unless the Guardians want them. A Sciencell would be better than anything we could build. Though given their status as a galactic menace, I'm perfectly happy to just disintegrate them. And not just because that's almost certainly what the Russians are going to do if we give them the people who abducted their cosmonauts and stole their ships."

    "I'll take that under advisement. The status of the cosmonauts?"

    "Hooked up to some sort of magic device." I shrug. "It was dead when I got there, and they appeared to be fine. Everyone here knows that they're going to have to be quarantined, so Manhunter and Doctor Mist can give them a good going over before we send them home."

    I'm not sure what the device was supposed to do. I don't recognise a lot of the runes, and if they were using a truly alien system it will be one for the thaumaturgists.

    Major Adams nods again.

    "Lantern Khan is going over the ship's internal monitoring records now. I want to be sure we got all of these things before we leave."

    And that could take a while. The Star Conquerors tried doing something to L-Ron and the robotics maintenance people were badly affected by their thraldom. And Lantern Khan's blithe attitude now that the ClusterShip is back under his control means that he isn't motivated strongly enough to do it quickly.

    "Have you found any more of these things back on Earth?"

    "Doctor Mist was able to trace them. We'll be launching an attack shortly."

    "I'll be glad to know those things are finally dealt with. Good luck. Captain Atom out."

    I shut the communication channel down. Okay, next step. Khan's getting the ClusterCorpCrew back into order. Alan and Koriand'r are checking on the crew's health. I… Could go and patch the-.

    The ship.. vibrates.

    -hull-?

    "Illustres to Lantern Khan. Are we underway?"

    "I don't know. Are we?"

    "I felt a vibrat-." Why am I bothering asking him? "Ring, source of vibration?"

    "Ejection of matter from planet."

    Hm. Well, I know that sufficiently violent volcanic eruptions on Earth can throw material into space. And if things are getting that violent then I think we can safely assume that no Star Conquerors went down there. But just in case…

    "Captain Atom, unless you desperately need me I'd like to head outside and make sure that we're not about to get a continent thrown at us. This ship has shields, but they're not military grade."

    He shakes his head, then nods at the Star Hunter.

    "I'd rather have you stay on guard."

    I nod.

    "Illustres to Lantern Koriand'r. Please exit the ship and prepare to block mass ejections from the planet."

    "I will go at once."

    I take a moment to scan the planet myself. I.. would have expected things to have died down by now, but it looks like the force of the internal explosions is being amplified by a solid structure under the planet's 'crust'. But the worst that could mean for us is that we'd need to make a jump with the ship before the crew are fully compos mentis. I'd-.

    Why is that… Getting closer?

    "Lantern Khan, are we underway?"

    "No, no, haven't touched the controls. Are we moving? Because I can go and shout at some people."

    "Stand by."

    Major Adams frowns.

    "What's the problem?"

    "We're getting closer to the planet. Not.. quickly, but… This ship isn't designed to land."

    "Was it the.. decompression? Were we pushed out of orbit?"

    I shake my head.

    "No, the atmosphere filter means that nothing like enough air escaped to do that. And the ClusterShip has automatic systems to anchor it in geosynchronous orbit and the Star Conquerors didn't remove them." I shrug. "With the crew recovering we can't fly away yet, but if it comes to it I can just tow the ship myself. The issue is that if I don't know why this is happening…"

    He nods.

    "We don't know what else is going to happen. What would cause this?"

    "Tractor beam. Strapped-on thrusters that are still stealthed, somehow. Some extreme-density materials escaping some sort of suppression field and causing a sudden change in local gravity. Some types of exotic portal. And… Probably other things. It might just be that someone was messing around with the ClusterShip's artificial gravity system, but-."

    "Lantern Koriand'r to Illustres."

    "Go ahead."

    "The eruptions are decreasing in intensity, but planet quakes are happening over a much wider area."

    Okay, worst-case scenario… Someone stuck a whole lot of neutronium down there in a zero-tau field that was breached by the mining laser. That's… Still not a threat to anything other than this ship and us. And… Our movement downwards appears to be accelerating. Not.. to a terrifying rate, but I'm a little concerned.

    "Captain, the worst-case scenarios here are much easier to deal with if I can see them coming. The Star Hunters aren't going anywhere, and between your lack of an organic brain in your enhanced state and your spell eater, you could incinerate them even if they did regain consciousness."

    "Okay, if you're that worried, get out there."

    "I'm not worried-worried. Just concerned about the bounds of my own ignorance."

    I raise my left hand to my forehead

    and a moment later

    I'm looking down at the fracturing planet.
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    Okay, worse case scenario… Someone stuck a million tonnes of neutronium down there in a zero-tau field that was breached by the mining laser. That's… Still not a threat to anything other than this ship and us. And… Our movement downwards appears to be accelerating. Not.. to a terrifying rate, but I'm a little concerned.
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    Paul you idiot... A million tonnes of neutronium is nothing...

    It's like... Less then a square millimeter of the stuff... And less weight then a small mountain... Meaning it would have no real gravitational pull to speak of...
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Kahn's getting the ClusterCorpCrew
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    'Khan'

    Vaermina said:
    Paul you idiot... A million tonnes of neutronium is nothing...

    It's like... Less then a square millimeter of the stuff... And less weight then a small mountain... Meaning it would have no real gravitational pull to speak of...
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    Please stop trying to make it seem like you actually know anything. It's getting increasingly pathetic every time you try it.
     
    Vaermina said:
    Paul you idiot... A million tonnes of neutronium is nothing...

    It's like... Less then a square millimeter of the stuff... And less weight then a small mountain... Meaning it would have no real gravitational pull to speak of...
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    And...what...does...any...of...that...have...to...do...with...him?

    He's...worried...about...the...ships,...not...the...planet.
     
    Vaermina said:
    Paul you idiot... A million tonnes of neutronium is nothing...

    It's like... Less then a square millimeter of the stuff... And less weight then a small mountain... Meaning it would have no real gravitational pull to speak of...
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    He's actually got a point. A million tons of feathers vs a million tons of bowling balls. Just because the density is different doesn't magically make something weigh less when you are defining it by it's weight.
     
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