With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Valint]

Paul had nothing to do with him showing up, nothing to do with him leaving, and Manga Khan didn't actually do anything whatsoever in his entire time in the story except be comic relief.

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This whole arc felt like an experimental thing that just didn't land. Like, Zoat decided to let a guest writer take over the fic, who did a pastiche of Giffen/DeMatteis before getting summarily cancelled.

The real impact from the arc seems to be a huge hit to OL's aura of competence.

I mean, his primary thing has always been that he thinks he's the smartest person in any room he's in, that he's this hypercompetent figure who sneers at the morons who wear underwear over their pants and use pointy-stick launchers... and then it turns out that he founded a corps that includes fuck-ups who'd be bottom-barrel in the League, handed out one of the most powerful weapons in the universe, and then deliberately didn't exercise any oversight.

He maintains the "You better listen to me, because might makes right and I can obliterate anyone who fucks with me" power-level, but it feels like he's lost the "You should listen to me, because I'm wise and make good decisions" mantle.

The concept of "Earth needs to get its act together and figure out how to deal with alien races as a unified force (preferably with as little bloodshed as possible) or it's going to get the Admiral Perry treatment" is a good one, but it feels like the arc stepped all over its dick by making the inciting factor be OL's fuck-up, which muddies the message.

 

[Massgamer]

Heh, when the earth is too crazy for the crazy corporation.

 

[LazySloth13]

"I survived Earth and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."

Seriously Earth should be made a designated training ground for future lantern cadets, LEGION members, and any other would be hero/do-gooder. What other planet has rare and power aliens/beings, a variety of magical techniques and objects, along unbelievable combinations of the two?

Not to mention the local protectors like to dress up in bright and color costumes, others go for dark and brooding, and manage to defend the planet and it's people from a multitude of dangerous beings hardly scene anywhere else.

 

[Siiracai The Supernal]

Apparently all you have to do to make a Lantern quit is assign them to Earth for a few days. *Cinemasins narrator voice* "This works."

 

[Mr Zoat]

12th April
12:04 GMT -5

"Mother Star, huh?"

I glance around from my workbench in the Mountain as Guy leans against the wall near the door. Then I turn back to my equipment, slotting a new kuru pendant into the thinkers cap currently plugged into my brain and

remembering.

Guy frowns at the device, eyes flickering green as he tries to make sense of it.

"Thought that thing wasn't ready fer the big time."

"The neural hook ups are constructs. I can just reset the physical structures of my brain when I want to disconnect. I've been thinking of integrating one into my armour, but it never seemed worth all the time I'd need in order to learn to use it well."

He nods.

"You know somethin'? This is the most Star Hunters the Green Lantern Corps has seen since the big war. Guess that's Earth for yeh."

He waits for a moment to see if I want to respond. When I don't, he looks away for a moment.

"We're takin' 'em. They can all sit in a sciencell fer the rest of forever."

"To what end?"

"Keeps 'em outta the way." He looks at me out of the corner of his eyes. "Burning 'em up would save space, yeh, but the war finished a long time ago."

I nod sadly

as I focus on the network of separate but related desires that the Mother Star remembered from when the war was at its height.

"It took me a while to work out how a creature that big could exist."

"Telekinetic, right? Holdin' itself together?"

"No. That sort of system could work, but I got pretty good scans of its neurology and I don't think it had the equipment."

"Well don't keep a guy in suspense. Spill it, already."

"I looked back over the records of Star Conqueror victims. The patterns of damage in long term hosts, the psychological effects of short term control, and the meaning of the runes they used on the ClusterShip."

He nods.

"Yeah? You find somethin' nobody else did?" He nods slowly as he works it out. "Magic, 'cause if it was anything else, the Guardians woulda found it." He frowns. "But you 're goin' on 'bowt how yeh can't use magic away from a planet-." He raises his eyebrows. "The starfish cracked it?"

"To a very basic level, yes. You see, when they did brain scans on the long term victims, they decided they were.. vegetables. Random flares of disorganised activity. No person left. But there's no.. obvious reason for Star Conquerors to keep any higher functions in their victims. They don't need them. If anything, they get in the way."

"Sooo?"

"Sephtian took a look at the rig they had the Russian cosmonauts in. Apparently they were using it to make them dream."

"And magic comes from dreaming, right?"

"Sort of. And yes, that's what I think they do. They use a whole lot of thralls all dreaming whatever they're told to dream, and use that to create… Really big Star Conquerors, with… Their own thaumic.. zones… Fields… Which… Is an interesting bypass."

"So what does that mean fer us?"

"There are people who specialise in dream magic. If we hire them, we can probably track down the last few Star Conquerors on Earth a lot more easily. Perhaps more to the point for me-."

"You think you can get magic workin' in space with.. dreams? I don't think people are gunna sign up for starfish facials."

"We could probably build something to replicate the effect. If we can study it in detail. Are the Green Lantern Corps planning to throw it into the sun?"

"Nah. Though it could be a tourist attraction. 'Come to Earth: we have giant starfish'."

"I… Don't think Earth needs any more alien visitors for a little while."

Though at least it's lit a fire under certain people's bottoms. Despite rumblings to the contrary, the Democratic party nominated President Horne as their candidate. He's made some noise about encouraging private space exploration, which is apparently the quickest that he's ever responded to anything. Senator Knight doesn't quite have the Republican nomination yet, but he's loudly announced his intention to throw money at NASA in order to catch up.

"Think you're right." He frowns. "What happened to that Khan moron?"

"His insurance doesn't cover Star Conquerors. He quit." I pull his ring out of my equipment harness and put it on the work bench. "One orange ring, slightly used. There is an actual L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet heading this way, but if you know anyone who's in the market..?"

"You'll prob'ly trip over someone too dumb to say 'no' before too long." He looks around my workshop. "So what's got you so bent outta shape?"

"It kept the dreams of every species the Star Conquerors ever destroyed. It had specialised brains for holding on to every feeling and fantasy they ever had. The last-."

I feel the feedback change as the pendant is filled. I pull it out, put it in the case with the others and slot in a new one.

"The last living testament of all of those civilisations. As it was dying I.. looked… I doubt that I got more than a tiny fraction. And I'm not sure whether or not the Mother Star really… Understood that it was killing them."

"They'd prob'bly all be dead by now anyway." Guy shrugs. "That thing went inta the ice over a million years ago. That kinda time, wouldn't even be ruins left."

"The Maltusians survived that long, but that's not the point. I just saw every record erased. Not because of anything I did; once we freed the ClusterShip's crew it was going to die, and we couldn't let it go."

"You're just bummed out."

"Yeah." I exhale. "Though since we know that interstellar magic is possible now, I'm going to talk to King Cyprian and King Orin about making it a joint research project. If we crack this… All sorts of things are possible."

 

[Darko]

I don't think people are gunna sign up for starfish facials."

Click to shrink...

Guy doesn't use the internet all that often, does he?

There are all sorts of people there, including ones that would accept a starfish facial.

Just make sure they know what it entails, you don't need to confuse them like how Frank and Charlie were mistaken about the creampies Mac and Dennis were looking at.

Wanted to post the video here, but there were some images I was worried would break the no modern politics rule, so sorry.

they Star Conquerors

Click to shrink...

'the Star'

Any hints on what tomorrows alternates universe is going to be?

 

[Handlewithcare]

Well, that's sad. The last record of entire races gone like tears in the rain.

Good on Paul for trying to preserve what he can.

And long range magic...well, the options are limitless.

As long as they can prevent Hell from spreading...

 

[RichardWhereat]

So, what you're saying is, you can get a tattoo array on Ares done so he draws his power from the Dreaming, and then bring him into the Reach War, so he's no longer on earth bothering people? And he can be further fueled from earth, through the dreaming, by people worshipping him as the God of War who is protecting freedom by annihilating the Reach?

Even if the basic idea requires a few small work arounds somewhere?

 

[Vaermina]

"To a very basic level, yes. You see, when they did brain scans on the long term victims, they decided they were.. vegetables. Random flares of disorganised activity. No person left. But there's no.. obvious reason for Star Conquerors to keep any higher functions in their victims. They don't need them. If anything, they get in the way."

"Sooo?"

"Sephtian took a look at the rig they had the Russian cosmonauts in. Apparently they were using it to make them dream."

"And magic comes from dreaming, right?"

"Sort of. And yes, that's what I think they do. They use a whole lot of thralls all dreaming whatever they're told to dream, and use that to create… Really big Star Conquerors, with… Their own thaumic.. zones… Fields… Which… Is an interesting bypass."

Click to shrink...

Congratulations, in your attempt to retcon how the Giant Starfish worked because you didn't like them having OP telekinetic powers, you just created a "Chicken or Egg" causality dilemma in concerns to their very existence.

Though at least it's lit a fire under certain people's bottoms. Despite rumblings to the contrary, the Democratic party nominated President Horne as their candidate. He's made some noise about encouraging private space exploration, which is apparently the quickest that he's ever responded to anything. Senator Knight doesn't quite have the Republican nomination yet, but he's loudly announced his intention to throw money at NASA in order to catch up.

Click to shrink...

Well, I guess Senator Knight just won the Presidency.

 

[RichardWhereat]

As long as they can prevent Hell from spreading...

Click to shrink...

That's not an issue, Hell is galactic/universal anyway. It was shown that as far away as Thanagar they knew who The First was, and had demons.

 

[Vaermina]

That's not an issue, Hell is galactic/universal anyway. It was shown that as far away as Thanagar they knew who The First was, and had demons.

Click to shrink...

Multiversal not Universal, lets see if I can find that Chart.

Spoiler

 

[Simonbob]

Wanted to post the video here, but there were some images I was worried would break the no modern politics rule, so sorry.

Click to shrink...

I find it hilarious that posting politics is worse than porn, on QQ.







I'm easily amused, I guess.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Multiversal not Universal, lets see if I can find that Chart.

Click to shrink...

The big problem with that map, is it was made for some nonsense fanfic. But yeah, probably Multiversal, aye.

 

[Vaermina]

The big problem with that map, is it was made for some nonsense fanfic. But yeah, probably Multiversal, aye.

Click to shrink...

Actually that's one of the official DC Map's of the Multiverse.

 

[Darko]

So, what you're saying is, you can get a tattoo array on Ares done so he draws his power from the Dreaming, and then bring him into the Reach War, so he's no longer on earth bothering people? And he can be further fueled from earth, through the dreaming, by people worshipping him as the God of War who is protecting freedom by annihilating the Reach?

Even if the basic idea requires a few small work arounds somewhere?

Click to shrink...

Paul has been wanting to get magic users in the Corps, plus he has hired people that make Ares look like an innocent pacifist.

It would be useful to get someone of Ares' power on their side.

He can actually contribute to the good guys, like his New 52 self and Marvel counterpart.

There is this omake in the The Dark Shard story by theirishdreamer on SB where a future version of Ares fights the Reach, if anyone's interested. It's in the sidestory part called One Bad Future: The Monsters We Create.

Congratulations, in your attempt to retcon how the Giant Starfish worked because you didn't like them having OP telekinetic powers, you just created a "Chicken or Egg" causality dilemma in concerns to their very existence.

Click to shrink...

I think that the first Star Conqueror appeared when those aliens were telepathicly linked to each and it appeared out of the Dreaming for some reason, and after that it had them do something similar to make more of itself.

Plus if this things comes from the Dreaming then logic isn't exactly something that can all that easily be applied to it.

Well, I guess Senator Knight just won the Presidency.

Click to shrink...

He hasn't even been nominated yet, but he'll probably win if he is, yes.

That's not an issue, Hell is galactic/universal anyway. It was shown that as far away as Thanagar they knew who The First was, and had demons.

Click to shrink...

Zoat did say that the First can travel to other planets, and some aliens did seem to know who he was.

I personally killed the First of the Fallen, and it wasn't even in my dozen toughest fights."

"The First of-? You killed-?"

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But if you're talking about those things that showed up in this story on Thanagar being demons from the Abrahamic Hell, then I don't think you're right about that.

When OL was talking to that shaman woman she told him that not all malicious spirits come from that place.

The Seven Devils were probably just Old Gods and their altered servants, while evil, were not Abrahamic demons.

Hell may also be confined to just Earth in this universe and not to other universes, depending on how Zoat wants to make it.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Actually that's one of the official DC Map's of the Multiverse.

Click to shrink...

Oh, it was created pre-2011? My mistake.

 

[Flux Casey]

So... This entire arc was for the sake of getting magic to work in space. Maybe. Eventually.

... Yeah. I think I'm done with this story. At least for a little while. When it's good, it's good. But I think, since Nabu was dealt with (or maybe since the OLC was founded, I forget which came first) the plot has just kind of been a meandering mess. There's no real narrative thrust to latch on to. The protagonist's goals are so nebulous and abstract that it's incredibly difficult to get invested in anything he does. This is not helped by how often he's approached situations as 'not my problem' as of late. It was an interesting character piece how he washed his hands of Gotham after one night, but it made him a pompous prig how he conveyed it.

His approach to Aquaman implies he doesn't actually care about people in the slightest, even the ones genuinely doing their best. He got slapped in the face with the idea that yes, the setting is run on narrativium, everyone slides back into the status quo easily, and no one is prepared to put on their big boy pants and make a change. Armed with that knowledge, he then tears Aquaman down for not knowing about the problems in Atlantis that no one told him about, doesn't try to offer even token assistance for the problems he exacerbated until one of his friends asks him what the fuck.

And then we have Manga Khan. A deeply muddled attempt at giving the Earth a kick in the pants to get onto the galactic stage. The one caused by the protagonist's aforementioned exacerbation of the Atlantis situation, a direct result of the slapdash management style of the organisation he created. And he washes his hands of it, ostensibly after getting frustrated from one meeting of the Security Council where he started banging his head on the desk.

He's going for the 'help those who help themselves' approach but it leaves him so hands-off with every situation that isn't his direct goal (whatever his direct goal is, I'm still not entirely sure), that the story might as well be told from another perspective. At least other characters are actually doing things occasionally.

TL;DR: Paul needs a coherently conveyed near-term goal that the audience can care about. The story needs a worthwhile plot hook. In other words, I need a reason to give a shit about what's happening.

'Til then? ... Peace.

 

[Mquz]

Congratulations, in your attempt to retcon how the Giant Starfish worked because you didn't like them having OP telekinetic powers, you just created a "Chicken or Egg" causality dilemma in concerns to their very existence.


Well, I guess Senator Knight just won the Presidency.

Click to shrink...

In America? Private space exploration actually seems to be more popular (though this is the opposite of which party would support which candidate based on this - privatized businesses are more of a republican thing.
Also, not a chicken or egg dilemma - they used magic to create a magical flying starfish capable of space magic. They were using magic from the Dream before that though on theIr original planet - might have been able to make anything they want so decided to make a space starfish. Basically - they have the ability to use the dream to materialize whatever they make people dream about.

 

[Belenus]

I find it hilarious that posting politics is worse than porn, on QQ.

I'm easily amused, I guess.

Click to shrink...

Porn has less bad acting and fewer unlubed assholes.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

12th April
12:04 GMT -5

"Mother Star, huh?"

Click to shrink...

Yes, it was a hell of a day. You missed out on some shit.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

I glance around from my workbench in the Mountain as Guy leans against the wall near the door. Then I turn back to my equipment, slotting a new kuru pendant into the thinkers cap currently plugged into my brain and

remembering.

Click to shrink...

Interesting. Using the Thinking Cap to improve his recall of the experience, then transferring it into data on the pendants? Like a telepathic recording.

Guy frowns at the device, eyes flickering green as he tries to make sense of it.

"Thought that thing wasn't ready fer the big time."

Click to shrink...

I'm sure it's fine for short periods, especially when you can just reset your brain like OL can.

"The neural hook ups are constructs. I can just reset the physical structures of my brain when I want to disconnect. I've been thinking of integrating one into my armour, but it never seemed worth all the time I'd need in order to learn to use it well."

Click to shrink...

Plus, the whole eventually going crazy thing. Or in OL's case, crazier.

He nods.

"You know somethin'? This is the most Star Hunters the Green Lantern Corps has seen since the big war. Guess that's Earth for yeh."

Click to shrink...

Yes, yes, Earth is an anomalous blip on the universes' probability curve. We all know this.

He waits for a moment to see if I want to respond. When I don't, he looks away for a moment.

"We're takin' 'em. They can all sit in a sciencell fer the rest of forever."

Click to shrink...

Surprising, Not just going to execute them? Then again, the Guardians seem to prefer live convicts to dead ones.

"To what end?"

"Keeps 'em outta the way." He looks at me out of the corner of his eyes. "Burning 'em up would save space, yeh, but the war finished a long time ago."

Click to shrink...

And there's no way of telling if any of the Starros involved in this were part of that. Likely not given most are clones.

I nod sadly

as I focus on the network of separate but related desires that the Mother Star remembered from when the war was at its height.

Click to shrink...

That's going to make for some trippy data for the Controllers...

"It took me a while to work out how a creature that big could exist."

"Telekinetic, right? Holdin' itself together?"

Click to shrink...

Could someone hold themselves that way telekinetically for days, months, even years?

"No. That sort of system could work, but I got pretty good scans of its neurology and I don't think it had the equipment."

"Well don't keep a guy in suspense. Spill it, already."

Click to shrink...

Please do share with the class, OL. We're on the edge of our seats.

"I looked back over the records of Star Conqueror victims. The patterns of damage in long term hosts, the psychological effects of short term control, and the meaning of the runes they used on the ClusterShip."

He nods.

Click to shrink...

And what did he find? Something the Guardians would never have considered because... Oh-ho...

"Yeah? You find somethin' nobody else did?" He nods slowly as he works it out. "Magic, 'cause if it was anything else, the Guardians woulda found it." He frowns. "But you 're goin' on 'bowt how yeh can't use magic away from a planet-." He raises his eyebrows. "The starfish cracked it?"

"To a very basic level, yes. You see, when they did brain scans on the long term victims, they decided they were.. vegetables. Random flares of disorganised activity. No person left. But there's no.. obvious reason for Star Conquerors to keep any higher functions in their victims. They don't need them. If anything, they get in the way."

Click to shrink...

The Starros cut and pasted their dreams into the Star Mothers? They were big enough to qualify as entire continents' worth of minds, after all.

"Sooo?"

"Sephtian took a look at the rig they had the Russian cosmonauts in. Apparently they were using it to make them dream."

"And magic comes from dreaming, right?"

Click to shrink...

Or more specifically, The Dreaming. So the Star Mothers were made to channel that energy...

"Sort of. And yes, that's what I think they do. They use a whole lot of thralls all dreaming whatever they're told to dream, and use that to create… Really big Star Conquerors, with… Their own thaumic.. zones… Fields… Which… Is an interesting bypass."

"So what does that mean fer us?"

Click to shrink...

It means the Starros have a whole set of weaknesses no-one's realised exists...

"There are people who specialise in dream magic. If we hire them, we can probably track down the last few Star Conquerors on Earth a lot more easily. Perhaps more to the point for me-."

"You think you can get magic workin' in space with.. dreams? I don't think people are gunna sign up for starfish facials."

Click to shrink...

Nah, they showed that sort of thing can be jury-rigged. All you need to do is refine that tech.

"We could probably build something to replicate the effect. If we can study it in detail. Are the Green Lantern Corps planning to throw it into the sun?"

"Nah. Though it could be a tourist attraction. 'Come to Earth: we have giant starfish'."

"I… Don't think Earth needs any more alien visitors for a little while."

Click to shrink...

Unless they're Superheroes. Humans understand Superheroes just fine.

Though at least it's lit a fire under certain people's bottoms. Despite rumblings to the contrary, the Democratic party nominated President Horne as their candidate. He's made some noise about encouraging private space exploration, which is apparently the quickest that he's ever responded to anything. Senator Knight doesn't quite have the Republican nomination yet, but he's loudly announced his intention to throw money at NASA in order to catch up.

Click to shrink...

Privatised and decentralised, versus government-controlled. Interesting conflict.

"Think you're right." He frowns. "What happened to that Khan moron?"

"His insurance doesn't cover Star Conquerors. He quit." I pull his ring out of my equipment harness and put it on the work bench. "One orange ring, slightly used. There is an actual L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet heading this way, but if you know anyone who's in the market..?"

Click to shrink...

Always useful to have spares for recruiting drives, since the Orange Corps isn't sending them seeking yet.

"You'll prob'ly trip over someone too dumb to say 'no' before too long." He looks around my workshop. "So what's got you so bent outta shape?"

"It kept the dreams of every species they Star Conquerors ever destroyed. It had specialised brains for holding on to every feeling and fantasy they ever had. The last-."

Click to shrink...

Whole worlds gone like mist in the morning sun. Suffering the worst fate anyone can: to be forgotten utterly.

I feel the feedback change as the pendent is filled. I pull it out, put it in the case with the others and slot in a new one.

"The last living testament of all of those civilisations. As it was dying I.. looked… I doubt that I got more than a tiny fraction. And I'm not sure whether or not the Mother Star really… Understood that it was killing them."

Click to shrink...

It may not even have recognised them as individuals. Starrros are very obnoxiously self-centred. Anything else is food or host, not a being worthy of consideration.

"They'd prob'bly all be dead by now anyway." Guy shrugs. "That thing went inta the ice over a million years ago. That kinda time, wouldn't even be ruins left."

"The Maltusians survived that long, but that's not the point. I just saw every record erased. Not because of anything I did; once we freed the ClusterShip's crew it was going to die, and we couldn't let it go."

Click to shrink...

Well, the Maltusians had advantages most races didn't. Especially ones like those conquered by the Starros.

"You're just bummed out."

"Yeah." I exhale. "Though since we know that interstellar magic is possible now, I'm going to talk to King Cyprian and King Orin about making it a joint research project. If we crack this… All sorts of things are possible."

Click to shrink...

Something to encourage peaceful relations even after they formalise their secession? Worth trying.

I'll admit, these last couple of Paragon episodes... Even as far back as 'Realigned', OL has felt... Too passive. He's riding along in his own story, coasting on neutral as he trundles from thing to thing. Ever since his run-in with Boss Smiley, in fact. I know Mr Zoat's a good enough writer that he might be going somewhere with this... But right now? He's just not as interesting as Grayven or the many other Pauls...

 

[Darko]

Porn has less bad acting and fewer unlubed assholes.

Click to shrink...

Plus the people tend to be better to look at and you get a sense of completion when you finish watching porn.

 

[Onion]

Hmhmhm, very nice, I wondered if you were gonna head that way when you started to talk about dreaming in the last few chapters. Nice little workaround.

 

[Vaermina]

I think that the first Star Conqueror appeared when those aliens were telepathicly linked to each and it appeared out of the Dreaming for some reason, and after that it had them do something similar to make more of itself.

Plus if this things comes from the Dreaming then logic isn't exactly something that can all that easily be applied to it.

Click to shrink...

As I said last night, that was just the Hatorei.

He hasn't even been nominated yet, but he'll probably win if he is, yes.

Click to shrink...

Which is a very good thing, at least, if he also throws money at all the US Supertech programs.

Also, not a chicken or egg dilemma - they used magic to create a magical flying starfish capable of space magic. They were using magic from the Dream before that though on theIr original planet - might have been able to make anything they want so decided to make a space starfish. Basically - they have the ability to use the dream to materialize whatever they make people dream about.

Click to shrink...

The Starro don't have an original planet, they are space born organisms.

 

[Darko]

So... This entire arc was for the sake of getting magic to work in space. Maybe. Eventually.

... Yeah. I think I'm done with this story. At least for a little while. When it's good, it's good. But I think, since Nabu was dealt with (or maybe since the OLC was founded, I forget which came first) the plot has just kind of been a meandering mess. There's no real narrative thrust to latch on to. The protagonist's goals are so nebulous and abstract that it's incredibly difficult to get invested in anything he does. This is not helped by how often he's approached situations as 'not my problem' as of late. It was an interesting character piece how he washed his hands of Gotham after one night, but it made him a pompous prig how he conveyed it.

His approach to Aquaman implies he doesn't actually care about people in the slightest, even the ones genuinely doing their best. He got slapped in the face with the idea that yes, the setting is run on narrativium, everyone slides back into the status quo easily, and no one is prepared to put on their big boy pants and make a change. Armed with that knowledge, he then tears Aquaman down for not knowing about the problems in Atlantis that no one told him about, doesn't try to offer even token assistance for the problems he exacerbated until one of his friends asks him what the fuck.

And then we have Manga Khan. A deeply muddled attempt at giving the Earth a kick in the pants to get onto the galactic stage. The one caused by the protagonist's aforementioned exacerbation of the Atlantis situation, a direct result of the slapdash management style of the organisation he created. And he washes his hands of it, ostensibly after getting frustrated from one meeting of the Security Council where he started banging his head on the desk.

He's going for the 'help those who help themselves' approach but it leaves him so hands-off with every situation that isn't his direct goal (whatever his direct goal is, I'm still not entirely sure), that the story might as well be told from another perspective. At least other characters are actually doing things occasionally.

TL;DR: Paul needs a coherently conveyed near-term goal that the audience can care about. The story needs a worthwhile plot hook. In other words, I need a reason to give a shit about what's happening.

'Til then? ... Peace.

Click to shrink...

First of, him being flippant about Gotham was undestandable since he just had really bad day, plus the person he was being flippant to was Talia, who just a year ago was working for an organization bent on killing a large portion of the population, so he may find it difficult to show her respect. Most people don't show respect to former cultists who have a tendency to look down on them, which Talia tends to do.

As for Atlantis, what makes you think the situation would have been better if OL didn't intervene?

I think it may have been worse actually.

OL didn't tell Cyprian to declare independence, the only political thing he did for him was act as a courier for him, just once.

Cyprian may have declared independence whether or not OL ever came to him.

Yes OL gave him some designs for the magic things Atlantis has been making, so now he may have felt more safe, but smaller and less advanced nations have resisted larger nations in the past, so he may have tried to do something like that, which would lead to a lot of deaths.

Even if he gave his throne to Ptra the populace may not accept it.

They've been told to distrust outsiders for decades and now suddenly one rules them.

In that type of situation people tend to rebel and that can lead to war and deaths.

Now with OL's help Venturia can peacefully secede and Aquaman gets a lesson on why he should more carefully manage his kingdom that didn't need to come about from war and death.

OL may also partially blame Aquaman since even though his advisors not advising him is partially to blame, he did spend most of his time as king gallivanting with the League until OL maimed his brother.

As I said last week, that was just the Hatorei.

Click to shrink...

I am aware.

The Starro don't have an original planet, they are space born organisms.

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In this story the Starros may have been creatures from the Dreaming and the planet where they appeared on could be considered their homeworld.

And I think he was talking about the Hatorei when he mentioned making a giant starfish and original planet.

 

[RichardWhereat]

But if you're talking about those things that showed up in this story on Thanagar being demons from the Abrahamic Hell, then I don't think you're right about that.

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I don't think there's much of an 'abrahamic hell' except in the minds of the inhabitants. Books of Magic showed us that there were many many different versions or visions of hell. Likely as many are there are sentients there to sentence there if unrepentent their reflectance bares.

 

[Darko]

I don't think there's much of an 'abrahamic hell' except in the minds of the inhabitants. Books of Magic showed us that there were many many different versions or visions of hell. Likely as many are there are sentients there to sentence there if unrepentent their reflectance bares.

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I was referring to and Abrahamic Hell as the one that was formed by the First of the Fallen after he was banished by God.

Also the other hell's could have just been bad afterlives that serve a similar function to the Abrahamic one, but were not formed by the First

 

[Vaermina]

Now with OL's help Venturia can peacefully secede and Aquaman gets a lesson on why he should more carefully manage his kingdom that didn't need to come about from war and death.

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Khan's gone, the Legion fleet, assuming it still comes, is months away, and it's only a matter of days till Paul flits off somewhere else after whatever shiny thing catches his interest.

What this means, is that unless Aquaman decides to sit on his ass doing nothing politics wise, which I will admit is a real possibility with the "static world" problem Zoat seems to be developing as a writer, by the time the Legion ships do arrive, it will be to a place reintegrated into Atlantis.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'the Star'

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Thank you, corrected.

Any hints on what tomorrows alternates universe is going to be?

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I've been watching a lot of Thorias Unlimited lately.

TL;DR: Paul needs a coherently conveyed near-term goal that the audience can care about. The story needs a worthwhile plot hook. In other words, I need a reason to give a shit about what's happening.

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That's actionable, so I'll see what I can do.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I was referring to and Abrahamic Hell as the one that was formed by the First of the Fallen after he was banished by God.

Also the other hell's could have just been bad afterlives that serve a similar function to the Abrahamic one, but were not formed by the First

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Possible, but given that other planets have heard of the First of the Fallen, not likely. Especially since the First references Lucifer, and Lucifer references the Presence, and he owns the DC universe enough to be able to give Samael that letter of travel out of it.

 

[Darko]

Khan's gone, the Legion fleet, assuming it still comes, is months away, and it's only a matter of days till Paul flits off somewhere else after whatever shiny thing catches his interest.

What this means, is that unless Aquaman decides to sit on his ass doing nothing politics wise, which I will admit is a real possibility with the "static world" problem Zoat seems to be developing as a writer, by the time the Legion ships do arrive, it will be to a place reintegrated into Atlantis.

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If the rest of Atlantis attacks Venturia and occupies it then the fleet that comes is going to attack the rest of Atlantis, or OL, or some other Lantern will attack Atlantis, that's what Paul told Orin when they talked about this in the Low Politics episode.

"Our treaty went live the moment he signed it. If the fleet arrives and finds Venturia occupied, they'll still attack. In the interim, I and any other Orange Lanterns who can get here will undertake the defence of Venturia, should it become necessary.

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OL most likely left a communication device with Cyprian to contact the OLC in case they are attacked, so even if OL isn't there Dox can just send another Lantern to deal with it.

The Venturians have been told for decades to mistrust outsiders.

They aren't going to reintegrate in a few months.

Possible, but given that other planets have heard of the First of the Fallen, not likely. Especially since the First references Lucifer, and Lucifer references the Presence, and he owns the DC universe enough to be able to give Samael that letter of travel out of it.

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The First may be known on other planets, but those planets probably aren't connected to Hell like Earth is.

Also the Presence, or whatever God is know in Earth 16, may not be the owner of this version of the DC universe, but more akin to an extremely powerful theurgist.

Once asked Zoat if that was the case and I think he said maybe.

Renegade also talked about how the depiction of God on Earth may not be actually about the Source as a whole, so there is the possibility that God may just be an extremely powerful theurgist.

He may be the most powerful being in universe 16, but he may not have made it or own it.