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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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I don't think there was ever really a connection with life, and.... did Zoat ever actually confirm the Life entity being in Earth?
 
Vaermina said:
It won't, Tinkers have tried gravity based weapons on them in the past to no real effect.

Which is understandable given the energy fields used to cancel their own gravitational effects, would do the same to such weapons.
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1) Citation please. And even allowing for that, SBP is rather in league of its own, and in canon worm text I don't remember similar weapons at all.
2) What gravitational effects? are you using that "denser to the core" fanon? It's not density, it's durability that increases.


None of that will protect him.

He's a human using easily modeled powers, the only time an error will pop up with Shard based precog is when he pulls out something completely new. But each new thing will only work once, after which, what that thing can do, will be added to the modeling.
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How? No, seriously. Ok, let's say that shards can perceive him correctly. Note: that's not a given at all, if he has any scry wards, and shard remote inter-dimensional perception is technological in nature, given that those shut down ring scans completely. He might as well not exist as far as shard senses go. But, ok, let's grant it to you that shards can see him. Let's say that they have seen him use a mallet construct, a chainsaw construct and a singularity beam projectior construct. How do they know which he will use in any given situation? Please remember that he has enlightenment, which is a soul structure alteration that directly affects his decision making and is unlikely to be (easily) modeled by shards.

Oh, and how would they model glow construct properties? Unless you posit that Miss Militia is a green lantern knockoff and her constructs are glow based of course, or something similar, modeling interactions between yellow light and, say, Gallant's emotion blasts is likely to produce "ERROR: Divide by Banana" messages.
 
Vaermina said:
It won't, Tinkers have tried gravity based weapons on them in the past to no real effect.

Which is understandable given the energy fields used to cancel their own gravitational effects, would do the same to such weapons.
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It's an entirely different scale. Power Rings are at least a couple magnitudes above tinkers in Worm.

Vaermina said:
None of that will protect him.

He's a human using easily modeled powers, the only time an error will pop up with Shard based precog is when he pulls out something completely new. But each new thing will only work once, after which, what that thing can do, will be added to the modeling.
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'Easily modelled'. HAHAHHAHAHA

Vaermina said:
It's nicer then saying "Sorry, but I can't give you this super useful item because that would basically be destroying one of Earth's very few possible trade goods.".
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Stop making up character motivations to suit your fucked up headcanon.
 
Yog said:
1) Citation please. And even allowing for that, SBP is rather in league of its own, and in canon worm text I don't remember similar weapons at all.

2) What gravitational effects? are you using that "denser to the core" fanon? It's not density, it's durability that increases.
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Endbringer layers being denser is canon, not fanon.

As is the explanation given by Wildbow about just how much of a matter reserve they have to draw from and how that works.

How? No, seriously. Ok, let's say that shards can perceive him correctly. Note: that's not a given at all, if he has any scry wards, and shard remote inter-dimensional perception is technological in nature, given that those shut down ring scans completely. He might as well not exist as far as shard senses go. But, ok, let's grant it to you that shards can see him. Let's say that they have seen him use a mallet construct, a chainsaw construct and a singularity beam projectior construct. How do they know which he will use in any given situation? Please remember that he has enlightenment, which is a soul structure alteration that directly affects his decision making and is unlikely to be (easily) modeled by shards.

Oh, and how would they model glow construct properties? Unless you posit that Miss Militia is a green lantern knockoff and her constructs are glow based of course, or something similar, modeling interactions between yellow light and, say, Gallant's emotion blasts is likely to produce "ERROR: Divide by Banana" messages.
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Scry wards protect against Power Ring scans because the light is basically magic.

Scry Wards don't protect against anything purely technological in nature.

Also you are over thinking things, the Shards don't have to model the "how" of what he does, just the "what" of it.

As to how they will know what things he will use in any situation, he's human, modeling humans is not hard, they do it literally all the time.


Idkusername said:
It's an entirely different scale. Power Rings are at least a couple magnitudes above tinkers in Worm.
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Not completely, they can't manipulate time for one.
 
Vaermina said:
Not completely, they can't manipulate time for one.
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Dictionary.com said:
magnitude
[ mag-ni-tood, -tyood ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR magnitude ON THESAURUS.COM
noun

size; extent; dimensions:to determine the magnitude of an angle.
great importance or consequence:affairs of magnitude.
greatness of size or amount.
moral greatness:magnitude of mind.
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dictionary.com said:
scale2​
[ skeyl ]SHOW IPA
noun

Often scales. a balance or any of various other instruments or devices for weighing:We gave the parents a baby scale. The butcher placed the meat on the scales.
Also called scalepan. either of the pans or dishes of a balance.
Scales, Astronomy, Astrology. the constellation or sign of Libra; Balance.
verb (used with object), scaled, scal·ing.

to weigh in or as if in scales.
to have a weight of


scale3​
[ skeyl ]SHOW IPA
noun

a succession or progression of steps or degrees; graduated series:the scale of taxation; the social scale.
a series of marks laid down at determinate distances, as along a line, for purposes of measurement or computation:the scale of a thermometer.
SEE MORE
verb (used with object), scaled, scal·ing.

to climb by or as if by a ladder; climb up or over.
to make according to scale.
SEE MORE
verb (used without object), scaled, scal·ing.

to climb; ascend; mount.
to progress in a graduated series.
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Where did you pull that from? I never mentioned the scope of what a Power Ring could do, though they have Worm tinkers beat at that too. And really? Power Rings can't facilitate time travel?
 
Vaermina said:
Endbringer layers being denser is canon, not fanon.
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Citation please. Because no, it's fanon, or, rather, it's directly wrong. The canon citation uses the word durability, not density.
As is the explanation given by Wildbow about just how much of a matter reserve they have to draw from and how that works.
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No, he used the word "equivalent" and he also directly stated that a planet kracking attacked is enough to kill one.
Scry wards protect against Power Ring scans because the light is basically magic.
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That's your supposition. Power Rings are very explicitly not magic.
Also you are over thinking things, the Shards don't have to model the "how" of what he does, just the "what" of it.
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But they can't. Sure, they could, in principle, model "this is a yellow colored solid object" for a construct. Then Gallant's fear-inducing blast (with the kinetic impact effect that should be enough to shatter it) impacts it, overcharges the construct, and causes it to explode, wiping out the neighborhood. And mistakes like that will keep on happening.
As to how they will know what things he will use in any situation, he's human, modeling humans is not hard, they do it literally all the time.
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He's an enlightened human. Enlightenment is unique to humans (or close enough), is magic/soul based and directly affects his decision making. Coupled with ring's own sensory input (which shards are unlikely to model), this means he'll be operating on unknown to shards dataset using unknown to shards decision making process. Meaning that it would be very hard, if not outright impossible to predict his behavior in any unusual situation.
 
Okay, that one's weird.

Purple healing ray= magic.

When it's invented by Wonder Woman or Io, sure, okay.

When Zoat made the inventor Paula Von Gunther, a Nazi scientist, well that leaves me wondering if in her spare time after learning magic if she took up knitting or interpretative dance in her apparently very abundant spare time on Themyscira.
 
Stsword said:
Okay, that one's weird.

Purple healing ray= magic.

When it's invented by Wonder Woman or Io, sure, okay.

When Zoat made the inventor Paula Von Gunther, a Nazi scientist, well that leaves me wondering if in her spare time after learning magic if she took up knitting or interpretative dance in her apparently very abundant spare time on Themyscira.
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The Nazis in DC spent a fair amount of time on magic and mystical stuff in general.
 
Endbringers have some weird space warping going on that messes with spatial powers. Whether that blocks a singularity beam or not is anyone's guess.

Zoat's version of power rings is as least slightly magical. The scry wards make him invisible to magic, but not to any technological means of detection. Otherwise the dime store scry wards initially used against him wouldn't have done anything.

Though a thought occurs, most of his power armor and stuff is at or below sivana level since it is cribbed off of other people's designs, not maltusian in origin. Would Ziz be able to brute force past any telepathy defenses he has? If so, that would be bad for him. Sure he could name protect himself, but after the first time or so Ziz could adjust and censor learning the name.

Honestly at the end of the day it is a problem of scale. Power rings are awesome, but he has at most 400% charge at any time. He isn't invincible and that should probably be shown soon.
 
Agent Orange said:
I'm pretty sure Paul used the purple ray on the beaver indigo dude and that was somewhere in the ass end of the galaxy (same chap he recruited Ranx in) so this can't be true?
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Stupid past-me, always making my life difficult.
Ct613hulu said:
I seem to missing something with the mechanics of the setting. I thought that the reason why Magic doesn't work once you leave Earth is that it is a product of life. Magic would thus be extra potent on Earth due to its status as the home / prison of the Life Entity, essentially impossible to use in the Vacuum of Space, and simply relatively weaker on a planet like Tamaran with a normal ecosystem but no other magic empowering aspects.

Am I missing something? This seems like is really significant given the many supernatural entities that are seeking some kind of universal conquest. Their threat radically declines if they are only able to exert their powers on the few planets like Earth that are magically potent.
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Sounds about right, but artefacts relying on specific magic structures to work will fail away from their native environment.
PS: Sorry about the story post. I have deleted it.
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Then let us speak of it no more.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Purple rays are magic-based. At the moment, they only work on or around Earth." I shrug. "Sorry."
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Renegade used it several times in Space, on himself, on Mortalla, on Adam Blake, on various Tamaranean Slaves and he also used the Purple Death Ray against Citadelians.
 
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On negative consequences, the simplest is that once they start going on sale/being broadly distributed, people may figure out the purple death ray. That's a pretty potent weapon to get into the wild.
 
Aeess said:
Renegade used it several times in Space, on him self, on Mortalla, on Adam Blake, on various Tamaranean Slaves and hr also used thr Purple Death Ray against Citadelians.
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Sounds like new gods fuckery to me. Their tech is explicitly magical, Renegate used thaumic devices to boost his healing, another Grayven ship was suffused by his will, etc.
 
Honestly, I am surprised that the purple ray is not a glow manipulation device. It's purple, which is somewhere between indigo and violet, ie compassion and love. It would make perfect sense that it be a healing device. Hell, it would even make sense if it was a device inspired by Alan's Power RIng.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Stupid past-me, always making my life difficult.
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You would have to change A LOT to make Paul current statement Canon as other users have noted several occasions in with the ray was used off earth (I think Grayven used it on Xeros too), the easiest thing is to change the current update and let Koriant take a few purple rays home, or find a more suitable excuse. But "It's magic and magic doesn't work off earth" is demonstrably not true or accurate.
 
Mr Zoat said:
That works for the Renegade but not for the SI.
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As he has Orange Enlightenment, he can simply use Orange Light as a stopgap for the lack of magic. Other laterns could possibly do the same... but it would actually drain their power reserves. Quite a bit. So, in truth, Paul is the only one who can use Purple Rays away from Earth regularly.

That work?
 
Suggest: It has a capacitor that stores magic, that works away from Earth for a few shots before the well runs dry and it has to recharge from Earth.
Earth still gets to export one-use versions of the device, but when other species on other planets try to make one, it's junk because they can't ever charge the battery.
 
Yog said:
Citation please. Because no, it's fanon, or, rather, it's directly wrong. The canon citation uses the word durability, not density.

No, he used the word "equivalent" and he also directly stated that a planet kracking attacked is enough to kill one.

That's your supposition. Power Rings are very explicitly not magic.

But they can't. Sure, they could, in principle, model "this is a yellow colored solid object" for a construct. Then Gallant's fear-inducing blast (with the kinetic impact effect that should be enough to shatter it) impacts it, overcharges the construct, and causes it to explode, wiping out the neighborhood. And mistakes like that will keep on happening.

He's an enlightened human. Enlightenment is unique to humans (or close enough), is magic/soul based and directly affects his decision making. Coupled with ring's own sensory input (which shards are unlikely to model), this means he'll be operating on unknown to shards dataset using unknown to shards decision making process. Meaning that it would be very hard, if not outright impossible to predict his behavior in any unusual situation.
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Here is a WoG stating they have a spiral galaxy's worth of matter in them (though it also states the League would probably defeat them)
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-6#post-16197175

You're also missing something important. This isn't just a Worm setting. This is a setting where it is possible to dimension travel between a Worm setting, DC settings, and Thundercats. Given the nature of the entities, this means that they are very very likely to not only have encountered glow based devices (if not power rings themselves) but to have shards based on them.

And modeling isn't that specific. He might confuse some of the lower tier Thinkers but the base powerset of the ring would be trivial to model for many. Pulling exotic tech out of his subspace pocket would definitely give him an edge against some but again, the shards are multiversal and scanning what he has in his subspace pocket would be trivial. And shards aren't technology or magic. They are biological and have exotic sensory organs.
 
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