WereDragon
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It continues to surprise me that the repentant Nazi is getting more flack that the un-repentant, and indeed un-apologetic, Apokoliptian.
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- Tags
- self insert young justice
Darko
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I think it's because we're more familiar with Nazis and their atrocities.
The atrocities of a fictional character just don't have the same impact as those of someone from real life.
The same is true with the characters in this story.
They're far more familiar with the atrocities of the Nazis, so they tend to dislike them more.
The likes of Rocket dislike Overgirl because she was essentially a racist xenophobe, and Raquel probably experienced racism in her life, so she is more inclined to dislike someone like her.
Canis on the other hand, while evil, may not exactly buy the whole racial purity and superiority crap the Nazis were spewing.
He believes more in the strong ruling the weak, and probably doesn't care all that much what race the strong come from.
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Zig
Not too sore, are you?
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Also, APokalyps isn't racist, sexist, or homophobic. Canis made out with Aqualad. Bad as it is in pretty much every way, it's a meritocracy. Nazi's elicit a more visceral reaction from people than a regular old violent expansionist society.
PDV
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Nazis are human. Human values, ones that in their basic forms (loyalty, duty, self-improvement) pretty much everyone shares, perverted into atrocities.
Canis's worldview is a blue and orange morality; it's not clear that he is even capable of reform. It's like being angry at lions for eating gazelles.
Someguy Somewhere
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You'd be very angry if you were the gazelle.
For a little while at least.
For a little while at least.
PDV
Revelation That Uncertainty Is Itself An Answer
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Yeah, and there are people who are actually very upset about wild animal suffering. But it's a waste of time to be angry at the lion. You might (and some W.A.S. people do) decide you need to kill all lions, or to arrange the lion's lives to make it difficult for them to kill gazelles (e.g. zoos). (Arguably Canis is in fact in a zoo, in this analogy.) But being angry at the lion? That doesn't help the gazelles.
Mr Zoat
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Did you know that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that after the apocalypse, lions will be vegetarian? It's why Mr Tawny doesn't like them.
Vaermina
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Word to the wise, it's not a good idea to argue a thing when you don't have access to the full comic.
Because if you had, you would have known that wasn't actually Batman and it wasn't actually chemicals effecting him.
Darko
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Word to the wise, it's not a good idea to argue a thing when you don't have access to the full comic.
Because if you had, you would have known that wasn't actually Batman and it wasn't actually chemicals effecting him.
There was also Jordan healing himself, in case you forgot.
Also as Chaoswind mentioned, Zoat made the rings in his story capable of healing. It doesn't matter if it goes against your version of DC canon, since people tend to write fanfics because they don't like what happened in canon. It also doesn't go against YJ canon on power rings since there practically isn't any canon on them.
A Week in the Life of (part 16)
Mr Zoat
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15th April
07:39 GMT -5
Wallace blurs around his arcane laboratory, grabbing reagents mundane and exotic and bringing them to his mystically neutral mechanical grinder. The grinder rests on a Poseidonis-made thaumatic sensor. I'm not sure whether he ever followed through completely or not but when he put this setup together Wallace said that he wanted to test every conventional chemical reaction to see if there was a measurable thaumatic shift. The plan was to see if he could identify the causal relationships which make some substances good for some things via magic mechanisms, rather than just noting them when they were stumbled upon by luck.
Just because he's learning magic, that's no reason to abandon modernity or reason.
He stops moving, leaning against the work bench as the grinder gets to work.
"I.. dunno, Oh El. I can make a potion which helps with mental stability-"
"Are you talking to Ted about that one?"
"-but-. Ah, yeah, but it's more like it helps with extreme stress, not schizophrenia or anything really serious."
"Targeting rich people with medical conditions created by their lifestyles and charging them through the nose for it: that's how to make money from the American healthcare system."
"I'm not…" He frowns thoughtfully for a moment, then shakes his head. "Yeah, probably. But if this Sandy guy went crazy after getting exposed to radioactive sand… I mean, a healing potion might do something for the radiation? But after sixty years the radioactive particles should have decayed by now. I don't know much about how potions affect shapeshifters. I've got a potion to stabilise magic, I've got one that can drain magic or heal magic injuries, but if the radioactive sand activated his metagene that won't do anything."
"It's been sixty years. No one's expecting you to come up with a solution in a few hours."
He shakes his head.
"Getting a solution might take another sixty years." He frowns faintly. "I guess…"
"What?"
"This must be what it was like for the first real scientists. Trying stuff out with no real idea why any of it was happening, or what it even made sense to look at. I mean, when Uncle Barry runs a test at his job he pretty much knows what he's looking for. The blood's either there or it's not. Chemicals either match or they don't. No one knows what radiological materials do to magic potions, because everything I've got-" He waves his right hand at some of his tomes. "-predates research on radioactive materials. Unless one of your gods-."
The grinder stops and Wallace checks the thaum detector. Nothing. He grimaces in irritation, then opens the grinder and tips the ground product into a chemical waste bin.
"Unless one of your gods feels like helping me out."
"I think we need to know more about what's happened to Sanderson Hawkins before we try that sort of thing. Because while Hecate is the Goddess of Magic, the God of Healing is Apollo."
He smiles faintly.
"So who's the Roman God of-"
"Wonder Woman to Orange Lantern."
"-Healing?"
"It's not her." I raise my left hand slightly. "Orange Lantern here, go ahead?"
"We have found where Sandy was."
"Was?"
"It's a site Wesley owned in Philadelphia. The security guards have been entranced. Lord Fate has freed them, but we can't tell how long ago it happened or where he was taken."
I actually.. checked there, but that was before I had any sort of facility for magic detection. I thought it was just a large walk-in freezer, but I only did a general scan and only stuck around long enough to confirm that there wasn't a sand monster there. I could easily have missed something.
I need to tell her. It could be important.
"It was empty as of a year and a half ago."
"How do you know that?"
Not accusatory, but certainly curious. Do I say I was suspicious of the official cause of death? Registering a death was a simpler affair back in the fifties, but none of the graveyards in the area they used to live had a Sanderson Hawkins buried there. At the time most members of the Justice Society were still involved with the All-Star Squadron, so it wasn't all that strange that they didn't attend the boy's funeral.
Does it make sense that I would have been suspicious without prior knowledge? Alan certainly never said anything about it sounding odd. Sad, yes, but not suspicious. Testing schizo tech weapons is a dangerous business. I don't want to say anything that makes it harder for us to find Mr Hawkins but at the same time I don't want to sound suspicious.
"Early on, I went on a tour of places I thought might contain Justice Society relics. I knew that people sometimes trip over other people's equipment…"
True and misleading. It should get around her ability to hear truth.
"I looked there, briefly. Just a long range scan… No Sandy or Sandman-related equipment."
"That will help narrow it down. Though it does raise more concerns about your kleptomaniacal behavior."
She sounds amused. Respond in kind.
"I consider it a job skill. Do you need me anywhere?"
"No. Remain in the Mountain and assist Kid Flash. We will call you if we need you."
"Rightoh. I assume that you'll be tracking him with magic?"
"We tried. Fate's efforts to scry his location met with failure. He thinks they used the magic of the Dreaming, but he doesn't have enough sand left after making contact with Morpheus to act as a focus."
Not too surprising. John Quinn may have the Helmet but he isn't a Lord of Order. He can't just muscle his way past defensive spells.
Okay… Who'd have a reason to abduct Hawkins? Not the government, because they'd have better options. It was only really Sandman and Dian Belmont who knew he was there… And… Would entities from the Dreaming know about it via Sandman? Odin knew about him in that Sandman comic I read… It's a place to start, I suppose.
"It might be worth asking Fate to try detecting Dreaming-based magic in general. If he's not having any luck with direct detection. There are only so many ways that anyone could have known where he was, and if someone had found him accidentally they'd probably have told someone."
"I'll pass that on. Is Kid Flash with you?"
I hold out my left hand in his direction.
"Kid Flash here. No real progress yet, but I'm still working on it. If you can get… I dunno, maybe whatever gun it was that started his transformation, that could help."
"I will try. Continue with your work as best you can."
He nods. "Sure thing."
"Wonder Woman out."
I lower my ring.
"Making some progress."
Wallace thinks for a moment.
"You know where I could get any kind of reagent related to the Dreaming?"
"Actually… Yes."
07:39 GMT -5
Wallace blurs around his arcane laboratory, grabbing reagents mundane and exotic and bringing them to his mystically neutral mechanical grinder. The grinder rests on a Poseidonis-made thaumatic sensor. I'm not sure whether he ever followed through completely or not but when he put this setup together Wallace said that he wanted to test every conventional chemical reaction to see if there was a measurable thaumatic shift. The plan was to see if he could identify the causal relationships which make some substances good for some things via magic mechanisms, rather than just noting them when they were stumbled upon by luck.
Just because he's learning magic, that's no reason to abandon modernity or reason.
He stops moving, leaning against the work bench as the grinder gets to work.
"I.. dunno, Oh El. I can make a potion which helps with mental stability-"
"Are you talking to Ted about that one?"
"-but-. Ah, yeah, but it's more like it helps with extreme stress, not schizophrenia or anything really serious."
"Targeting rich people with medical conditions created by their lifestyles and charging them through the nose for it: that's how to make money from the American healthcare system."
"I'm not…" He frowns thoughtfully for a moment, then shakes his head. "Yeah, probably. But if this Sandy guy went crazy after getting exposed to radioactive sand… I mean, a healing potion might do something for the radiation? But after sixty years the radioactive particles should have decayed by now. I don't know much about how potions affect shapeshifters. I've got a potion to stabilise magic, I've got one that can drain magic or heal magic injuries, but if the radioactive sand activated his metagene that won't do anything."
"It's been sixty years. No one's expecting you to come up with a solution in a few hours."
He shakes his head.
"Getting a solution might take another sixty years." He frowns faintly. "I guess…"
"What?"
"This must be what it was like for the first real scientists. Trying stuff out with no real idea why any of it was happening, or what it even made sense to look at. I mean, when Uncle Barry runs a test at his job he pretty much knows what he's looking for. The blood's either there or it's not. Chemicals either match or they don't. No one knows what radiological materials do to magic potions, because everything I've got-" He waves his right hand at some of his tomes. "-predates research on radioactive materials. Unless one of your gods-."
The grinder stops and Wallace checks the thaum detector. Nothing. He grimaces in irritation, then opens the grinder and tips the ground product into a chemical waste bin.
"Unless one of your gods feels like helping me out."
"I think we need to know more about what's happened to Sanderson Hawkins before we try that sort of thing. Because while Hecate is the Goddess of Magic, the God of Healing is Apollo."
He smiles faintly.
"So who's the Roman God of-"
"Wonder Woman to Orange Lantern."
"-Healing?"
"It's not her." I raise my left hand slightly. "Orange Lantern here, go ahead?"
"We have found where Sandy was."
"Was?"
"It's a site Wesley owned in Philadelphia. The security guards have been entranced. Lord Fate has freed them, but we can't tell how long ago it happened or where he was taken."
I actually.. checked there, but that was before I had any sort of facility for magic detection. I thought it was just a large walk-in freezer, but I only did a general scan and only stuck around long enough to confirm that there wasn't a sand monster there. I could easily have missed something.
I need to tell her. It could be important.
"It was empty as of a year and a half ago."
"How do you know that?"
Not accusatory, but certainly curious. Do I say I was suspicious of the official cause of death? Registering a death was a simpler affair back in the fifties, but none of the graveyards in the area they used to live had a Sanderson Hawkins buried there. At the time most members of the Justice Society were still involved with the All-Star Squadron, so it wasn't all that strange that they didn't attend the boy's funeral.
Does it make sense that I would have been suspicious without prior knowledge? Alan certainly never said anything about it sounding odd. Sad, yes, but not suspicious. Testing schizo tech weapons is a dangerous business. I don't want to say anything that makes it harder for us to find Mr Hawkins but at the same time I don't want to sound suspicious.
"Early on, I went on a tour of places I thought might contain Justice Society relics. I knew that people sometimes trip over other people's equipment…"
True and misleading. It should get around her ability to hear truth.
"I looked there, briefly. Just a long range scan… No Sandy or Sandman-related equipment."
"That will help narrow it down. Though it does raise more concerns about your kleptomaniacal behavior."
She sounds amused. Respond in kind.
"I consider it a job skill. Do you need me anywhere?"
"No. Remain in the Mountain and assist Kid Flash. We will call you if we need you."
"Rightoh. I assume that you'll be tracking him with magic?"
"We tried. Fate's efforts to scry his location met with failure. He thinks they used the magic of the Dreaming, but he doesn't have enough sand left after making contact with Morpheus to act as a focus."
Not too surprising. John Quinn may have the Helmet but he isn't a Lord of Order. He can't just muscle his way past defensive spells.
Okay… Who'd have a reason to abduct Hawkins? Not the government, because they'd have better options. It was only really Sandman and Dian Belmont who knew he was there… And… Would entities from the Dreaming know about it via Sandman? Odin knew about him in that Sandman comic I read… It's a place to start, I suppose.
"It might be worth asking Fate to try detecting Dreaming-based magic in general. If he's not having any luck with direct detection. There are only so many ways that anyone could have known where he was, and if someone had found him accidentally they'd probably have told someone."
"I'll pass that on. Is Kid Flash with you?"
I hold out my left hand in his direction.
"Kid Flash here. No real progress yet, but I'm still working on it. If you can get… I dunno, maybe whatever gun it was that started his transformation, that could help."
"I will try. Continue with your work as best you can."
He nods. "Sure thing."
"Wonder Woman out."
I lower my ring.
"Making some progress."
Wallace thinks for a moment.
"You know where I could get any kind of reagent related to the Dreaming?"
"Actually… Yes."
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unObservant
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So did Morpheus take back the rest of the sand and edit everyone's memories to say John just used it all, or...?
Darko
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'stops'
'found'
'too'
There is also Asclepius, as well as Panacea among others.
Also some of the myths say that Hermes may be the God of Alchemy.
If Kid Flash starts worshiping him, then maybe he can get a magical boost in speed from him, as well as some knowledge in alchemy.
Even if he isn't the god of alchemy Wally can still get magically boosted super speed.
Are we going to see some of the Norse Gods in this episode?
Darko
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No.
When Wally was asking who the Roman God of Healing was, Diana called them and OL jokingly said that she isn't the Roman God of Healing.
Chojin Patriarch
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Heh, putting that scientific training to use, eh? Now if only they could get that going on a larger scale...
Ah, the worst part of science. Waiting for results.
That depends on how effective it is, really. Does it cure all mental issues, merely stabilise moods, or some other less than useful effect?
Now, now, that's getting a little modern, isn't it? I mean, it's hardly new, really, but...
And given what we know he could do, that's very likely. The worst case is that he's been sane for years and has been stuck in that glass bottle for all that time, bored out of his silicate skull...
Well, at least it's a long-term project. Assuming you don't get into some other sort of trouble...
Or the alchemists of the old times never bothered to write things down that they'd reasonably learn from a Master training them. Who knows what kind of research some mad monk did in some remote location with those odd glowing rocks that made people's hair fall out? If he never wrote it down, no-one would know.
Hmm... Like Darko said, Hermes might be a good option, not just for the knowledge. It all depends on how much he likes Wally, really.
And we know how Apollo feels about OL. Maybe some other pantheon? Who's the Norse Deity of healing?
Ah, Diana found something? Let's hear it.
...Oh, dear. That doesn't sound good. The big question is did he leave under his own power, or not?
Now, did OL look there? And how will he explain why he looked?
Come on, man. Don't worry about your secrets, a man's life may be in danger.
Be honest now...
Aw, man, the mental gymnastics he's doing...
Really, OL... Are your secrets really that important? They aren't going to hate you for keeping a few things quiet...
Well, he is an Orange Lantern. Kleptomania is kind of a trait.
To be honest, would him being out there help at all?
Well, that's bloody inconvenient. And also telling. Could this be Brute and Glob, pulling the swindle they had going back in the Sandman comics with Hector Hall, but using Sandy as the focus? Probably unlikely, given Morpheus would likely have tracked them down...
Man, Endless stuff always gets so complicated...
Anything's worth a try at this point.
Huh, good thinking. Assuming Dodds didn't just destroy it in rage after what it caused...
Not like there's anything better he could really do right now...
Indeed. But slow progress, and probably in the wrong direction...
Oh-ho, could this be a reason for OL to track down Constantine finally?
And on it goes. This is like looking for a needle in a haystack, or perhaps a diamond on a beach. I suppose we can at least hope Sandy is rational when they finally do locate him...
Darko
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I think Zoat makes it something of a habit to sometimes provoke the moderators.
Hermes is often shown as being fairly helpful to humans and easier to relate to.
Plus he most likely has a playful personality, like Wally, so he may like Wally enough to help him.
Don't forget the Khandaqi pantheon.
OL is friends with their champion.
Also maybe Adrianna, the avatar of Isis, can help.
In the myths Isis was said to be a Goddess of Healing, alongside Magic.
Giovanni may not be all that pleased that his daughter has been hanging out in ways that can be seen as very intimate with a 30 year old guy.
Awkward
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He stops moving,
Vaermina
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And you apparently forgot the whole "you didn't read the whole thing" thing.There was also Jordan healing himself, in case you forgot.
Just because a writer can do a thing, doesn't mean they should.
Case in point, the Cats movie.
Do you think it's a good thing that Zoat just rehashes the same handful of plot beats over and over because he wrote himself into a corner by powering up his SI too much? Hint, it's not, and even Zoat recognizes that since he has had his character ignoring powerups and even going so far as to take away already acquired powerups so he can bring in at least some level of challenge.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
I'm now imagining a god who suddenly starts getting worshipped as the god of something they know nothing about frantically trying to read up on it.
No. I need more space to do them properly.
Watsonian, he reclaimed his property. Doylist, I needed a better explanation for what came next.
Darko
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And you apparently forgot that I mentioned Jordan and not Batman.
Yes writers sometimes shouldn't do some things, but other times they should, since doing that can be more interesting than not doing it.
Paul's use of his ring for things other than fighting is a very interesting part of this story, and not something we usually see in the comics.
His exploration of what else they can do, aside from just making fists to punch people with, is also an interesting part of this story.
Pity about him not knowing alchemy.
Still if he's capable of giving Wally a super speed blessing then maybe that can increase his speed greatly.
There is also Adrianna a.k.a Isis, whose basically the avatar of a magic and healing goddess.
And he's also friends with Adom, who can potentially find him some other healing god.
He's also on good terms with Vulcan, who may get him in touch with some Roman healing deities, or if he knows someone from another pantheon, some healing deities from there.
So is there a potential future episode where OL meets the Norse Gods, maybe with the Einharjer finally going back to Asgard?
The only real comic story, aside from the Vertigo ones, I remember them featuring in is that n52 comic that showed the Amazons odyssey after they left their old home.
rkyeun
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Well, if anyone's a quick study, it would be Hermes.
Darko
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Super speed truly is a very versatile power.
It allowed Supes to learn how to perform surgery in a few seconds.
Rafin
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Hermes has been worshipped as the god of alchemy for at least a few centuries. So if he did what you said, he'd be well past read in by now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes_Trismegistus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism
Darko
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He may not have bothered learning alchemy.
Either he didn't want to, maybe because the worship he received was paltry in comparison to what he received before Christianity, or just didn't care to learn.
Handlewithcare
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A budding alchemist with Dreaming related reagents.
...
WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
...
WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
TheMidnightRook
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Note the second page. Hal unknowingly healed the real Bruce, from the effects of some technobabble, pseudoscience "knockout force", at the same time he healed the imposter.
Here's two examples of Hal Jordan using his ring for healing:
Idkusername
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This is going Sakura levels of irrelevancy.
Darko
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Hey, don't insult Sakura like that.
She at least improved herself after several years.
Vaermina
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I mean, if you don't think pointing out problems with a persons writing is relevant to a thread where that person is posting their writing I don't think I can help you.