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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Considering that it's OL describing what happens it's not like it has to be an official pardon. He could just call it that for convenience.
It couldn't be an official pardon anyway, because nobody had yet been convicted of a crime, as something like that would take weeks to months. What almost certainly happened is that the governor leaned on the local prosecutor's office and got him/her to drop or settle the charges in exchange for various considerations.
 
Lord Paultector would be much better served nuking the place from orbit.
Listen... generally creatures and materials created by parahuman powers are unstable and unsuited to research, but that isn't absolute. Nilbog's creatures don't have to be made of human tissue. He no longer has a serious compulsion to attack strangers. And some, perhaps all, of these creatures are people, if more limited than a typical human.
Take away the risk of a runaway biological WMD, and this civilization might be the most important event in human history. Aliens or mutants, they might be a few nutrients or augmentations short of enjoying a human lifespan. They seem to be one of the most important events on Earth Bet.
 
I don't have Orange Prime's empathy

So Paragon is the only version that can see other emotions aside form the one he is enlightened to?

You said that he can see all the emotions at whatever level he chooses to.

The main SI can see the seven emotions of the spectrum at whatever level he cares to look to.

You also said that you were considering making it so that LP can only see the other emotions at their surface level.

I think I said that I was leaning towards no but hadn't decided. I suppose we could compromise on 'surface emotions only'.

I guess you chose to make it so that paragon is the only enlightened one that can see other emotions, at any level?

And please answer this with a simple yes or no.

If it's a no then can other enlightened Lanterns at least see emotions on their surface level, because LP could have just been thinking he doesn't have empathy as powerful as paragons, that is being able to see beyond the surface level?
 
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Not too deeply entrenched in the Worm fandom so forgive my ignorance but are the Goblins/fae actually sapient creatures and not just projections?
 
16th April 2011
08:48


I regard the 'were-chipmunk' as it regards me. A curious creature; it puts me in mind of something that might have existed in a Beatrix Potter book as reinterpreted by Tim Burton. It's got the cute little jacket and scarf combined with eyes that no natural creature should have and razor sharp teeth just a little too large to hide behind its gums.
Hoo boy. No wonder people didn't like Nilbog. Dude made stuff that leapt straight into the uncanny valley... Not to mention the lack of concern for human life...

"I have an appointment with King Jamie. If you would be so good as to escort me?"

The creature flicks its strangely lion-like tail as it contemplates me.
Seriously, how disturbed is Nilbog? Everything I've heard says 'Very.' But is it the man or the shard causing it?

"I wonder if you're a farmer?"

"Not by preference, and I wasn't much good at it."
He knew to leave it to the people who knew what they doing. His part in it was simply keeping them safe.

"You can understand me?" I n-. "You can understand me!"

"I can understand any form of spoken or written communication. Now-?"
Man, Cauldron and the PRT must be going nuts trying to work out his threat ratings... I suspect anything he qualifies for just gets 'Threat: YES.'

It lunges from my right leg and attempts to scramble up, but my environmental shield allows it no purchase. Instead it slips down, falling over and then rolling back onto its hind paws.

"I don't think that King Jamie would appreciate me being late."

"I was only made with short legs-. Oh! You should have seen how quickly some of the others used to run and leap!"
Seriously, this feels like some twisted Alice in Wonderland stuff. Like a children's book seen through a dark lens of madness...

Having watched every visual record of their activity, I know it perfectly well. Home videos and strike team recordings that leaked out. Even security camera records from the businesses inside Ellisburg. The children of 'Nilbog' didn't do all that much damage to the infrastructure of the town, and quite a lot was recoverable. He loved his children. He loved making children. He didn't care a whit for his fellow humans, and I've seen it argued each way whether that was because of his power or just how he was anyway.
And that's why they leave him alone. He's content here. Poke him, and he'd send them out into the countryside...

"Allow me."

I create a construct plane, designed to look like one of the comically misshapen ones that you used to be able to pay 50p to ride at the front of a supermarket. The.. creature stares at it in absolute admiration for a second before leaping and landing head first in the seat. The propeller starts up as it twists into a sitting position, and then it grabs the steering column.
Oh god, how is a freakish monstrosity so damn cute?x3

It has a few false starts, but it still takes less than a minute before it understands the control system well enough to fly us through the abandoned fields surrounding the town proper. I think that King Jamie was attempting some sort of 'mystic forest' thing here, but his talents don't actually make trees grow any faster. Or perhaps the problem is a lack of personal discipline? I know that further into town there's an area where he appeared to be attempting to recreate the yellow brick road of Wizard of Oz fame. Sadly for his Scarecrow simulacrum he has no more knowledge of pottery than he does of arboriculture.
So you might say, he doesn't have a brain. Certainly no head for landscaping.

I see a few of the Goblin King's children as I fly after-.

"You haven't told me your name."

"Oh no, sir. Giving ones name to the fae is a terrible idea, they can make you do all sorts of things."
Wise critter. Even if Lord Protector isn't a fae, he can still do nasty things to you, though.

"You do understand that I'm not a fae creature, yes?"

"You must be, sir? Or else why would you be here?"
Oh, they're all mad there, yes indeed. As mad as their king...

"As a foreign diplomat attempting to negotiate."

The creature turns its head, apparently disappointed by my reply. Or perhaps that I replied to what was supposed to be a rhetorical Cheshire Cat paraphrasing?
He may be able to speak, but he's still got the brains of a chipmunk.

I reach down to my equipment harness and pull out an iron horse shoe. That seems to mollify it.

"My name is Hunca Munca, yes it is! What is yours?"
Probably picked because it sounds funny and cute. If not for shard bullshit, this might have been a nice place...

"I might not be a fae creature, but you definitely are."

It grins.
Note that's not a denial. Truly, terrific. Lord Protector's going to get on like a house on fire. Complete with the screaming and the burning and the exploding...

As we approach the town hall it.. veers off, turning its toy plane down another road and towards… A playing ground which is being fully enjoyed by the locals. Creatures like my guide; midget animals who went for cute and fell far short. Others look like miniature demons, gremlins and gargoyles. I think perhaps that I'm too familiar with goblins from Warhammer to recognise that mythological goblins had far more varied appearances.
Never mind the D&D or Pathfinder counterparts. The latter were closer to the mad little fae image, and if played well, live up to it.

And the man I'm here to see, dressed like a cross between a court jester and Slenderman. His people have build him a platform atop the climbing frame, and a couple of heavy wooden chairs have been stuck together with the adjoining arm rests removed to create something that can serve as his throne. His eyes are sufficiently altered that I can't tell where he's looking.
A raggedy king, for a raggedy kingdom...

Hunca Munca flies up to the top of the climbing frame and leaps out of the plane, landing at its creator's feet and prostrating itself.

"Oh might King Nilbog! I come, with the ambassador!"
Let's hope he's in a good mood, more Wizard than Nome King...



I've only just realised that his name is 'goblin' backwards.
Eh, it's a silly thing. Whoever named him must have been a big geek.

I dismiss the construct, land at the base of his climbing frame and bow.

"Your majesty. I thank you for receiving me."

"Mm. And what do I call you? And who do you work for?"
What could he even want here, anyway? What point is there to talking to Nilbog?

I straighten up. "My title is Lord Protector. And I work for myself."

"Are you a king?"
Hoo boy, it's going to be one of those conversations...

"No."

"It's a very grand-sounding title, for a man who says that he isn't a king."

"There was some suggestion that after I reunified Thundera I might take the title, but I decided against it. It is my opinion that once a community reaches a certain size, it isn't wise to have every decision be made by a single individual. I guard the state. I do not control it."
Democracy, huh? Wonder how Lion-O's taking that...

His face… Sort of squishes.

"You think I'm a tyrant, do you? You dare accuse me of keeping my children as slaves?!"
Huh, I'd give him a Mover 4 rating, for that ability to jump to conclusions. :D

"Not at all, your majesty. The affection you feel for them is obvious. It is simply that the political community I guard will outlive me, while your children are dependent on you and your abilities. Where I to claim the title of king I would be lying, where as you are simply describing your situation accurately."

"Hmm." He settles down slightly. "What do you want, Ambassador Lord Protector? What boon do you ask of me?"
Still trying to make this world a better place? or at least a less chaotic one?

"I wish to trade. My people have recently undergone a revolution in farming technology. Not only do we have a surplus of farming equipment to exchange, we also have a surplus of farm animals. I understand that you have consumed all of the animals within your territory for resources."

I don't have Orange Prime's empathy, but I can hardly miss his reaction to that.
Impressive to ping even his senses. You can at least tell he cares for his creations...

"And as a personal gift…"

I take a pile of books on farming techniques out of subspace and… Ah. There isn't really anywhere to put-.

A moleman ambles up and holds out his large fore claws. I hand them to him.
How handy of him.

"This should enable some of your children to set up the farms you will need to ensure the long-term viability of your s-. Kingdom."

He shifts in his seat. Oh yes, the reports made it clear that his people skills weren't very good but even he knows that he shouldn't seem too eager.
Too bad he's lit up like a lighthouse to Lord Protector's sight (beyond sight?:p)

"And what do you want in return?"

"When I first came to Thundera, it's people were starving. For now, it is enough to know that your people won't be. But if you will agree to meet me again in a year, perhaps we could discuss a longer term agreement?"
Assuming the planet is still in one piece in a year's time. We still haven't seen any of the fallout of his actions yet...

Boy, I bet lord Protector's been busy. I shudder to imagine the meltdown PHO is having by now. Never mind what Cauldron and the PRT are thinking of his behaviour. I still wouldn't want to see an entire episode of this, it'd start too many arguments, I think...

Where I to claim the title of king I would be lying...
Were I to claim the title of king I would be lying...
 
Not too deeply entrenched in the Worm fandom so forgive my ignorance but are the Goblins/fae actually sapient creatures and not just projections?
Yeah, his powers were designed as a "just in case" by the Entities for if they accidentally wiped out humanity before the cycle was over. If that happened Nibog's creations would have spread out and become the new dominant species, taking over humanity's niche. For this to be useful to the Entities they have to be intelligent and emotionally complex enough to trigger, becoming hosts for shards themselves.
 
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Hope we'll get to see how Marvel!Paul is doing. Given how much progress one of his counterparts has likely made with Azula in the A:TLA world, I wonder how he might handle the complex issue of David Charles Haller's particular psychosis.

The likes of Kevin MacTaggert, (AKA, "Proteus") just needs a body strong and durable enough to stabilize his being, (and I'm reasonably sure Marvel!Paul could construct such a biological vessel for Kevin to inhabit), but in regards to "Legion", besides finding a means to stabilize David's own super-genetics, perhaps he could find ways for his multiple personalities to find common and constructive interests to pursue, and work from there?
 
Seriously, how disturbed is Nilbog? Everything I've heard says 'Very.' But is it the man or the shard causing it?

Maybe both.

Oh god, how is a freakish monstrosity so damn cute?x3

Zoat managed to make Princess, an alien spider thing, be cute and adorable.

Wise critter. Even if Lord Protector isn't a fae, he can still do nasty things to you, though.

This one seems to be one of the more magically inclined ones, the other more prominent ones being Raul, Sybarite, Angel, so there is a chance he can actually do something magical if someone gives him their name.

A raggedy king, for a raggedy kingdom...

Just like the Emperor of Mankind, a corpse for a dead kingdom.

What could he even want here, anyway? What point is there to talking to Nilbog?
Good question.

Democracy, huh? Wonder how Lion-O's taking that...

he's most likely happy that his people are safe.

Hope we'll get to see how Marvel!Paul is doing. Given how much progress one of his counterparts has likely made with Azula in the A:TLA world, I wonder how he might handle the complex issue of David Charles Haller's particular psychosis.

The likes of Kevin MacTaggert, (AKA, "Proteus") just needs a body strong and durable enough to stabilize his being, (and I'm reasonably sure Marvel!Paul could construct such a biological vessel for Kevin to inhabit), but in regards to "Legion", besides finding a means to stabilize David's own super-genetics, perhaps he could find ways for his multiple personalities to find common and constructive interests to pursue, and work from there?

For David, maybe some alterations are in order.

I'd also like to see what the MCU one is doing.
 
Thank you, corrected.
Eh, it's a silly thing. Whoever named him must have been a big geek.
As I understand it, he picked it himself.
Were I to claim the title of king I would be lying...
Thank you, corrected.
 
I wonder how hard it'd be to get index's of the different versions of the main character I get the feeling I missed some of the thundera posts
 
And that's why they leave him alone. He's content here. Poke him, and he'd send them out into the countryside...

Actually, he can't send them out. After Nilbog murdered the town the government built a big wall and staffed it with a lot of men with guns to kill anything that got close.

They leave him alone because they asked the precogs if they could kill him and get all of his little doomsday triggers and the answer has consistently been "Fuck no, leave that evil murderous bastard to starve".
 
16th April 2011
08:48
…he is unwilling to even consider working with the Protectorate but will negotiate with genocidal mass murdering lunatics.

My respect for the Lord Protector could not be less.

Lots of people, in universe and out, have suggested the same thing. It would cause more problems than it solves. You might get Nilbog himself, but his creatures can reproduce on their own, and he's set up a lot of contingencies to assure MAD if anyone tries it.
A Power Ring solves such problems.
 
…he is unwilling to even consider working with the Protectorate but will negotiate with genocidal mass murdering lunatics.

My respect for the Lord Protector could not be less.
100% literacy
100% numeracy
0% crime
0% drug use
0% unemployment
100% approval rating

Nilborg for President.
 
100% literacy
100% numeracy
0% crime
0% drug use
0% unemployment
100% approval rating

100% insanity

I don't have Orange Prime's empathy

So Paragon is the only version that can see other emotions aside form the one he is enlightened to?

You said that he can see all the emotions at whatever level he chooses to

The main SI can see the seven emotions of the spectrum at whatever level he cares to look to.

And the other two, white and black.

Ah, yes, sorry. He can see those as well.

You also said that you were considering making it so that LP can only see the other emotions at their surface level.

I think I said that I was leaning towards no but hadn't decided. I suppose we could compromise on 'surface emotions only'.

So can Lord Protector just view the other eight emotions at the surface level, or is he incapable of viewing them at all, because when he said he doesn't have paragons empathy he could have meant he doesn't have as powerful a version as his, or one that can see the other emotions on a deeper level?

And please answer this question in a simple manner, and not just give some kind of run around.
 
That link on Nilbog put me on a wiki crawl because I got curious about what the fuck has been happening in the Worm sequel . . . And wow, it really went to fucking shit, didn't it?

I especially hate the nonsense with the Titans.

Oh well . . . I have to admit that I'm more than a little surprised the Lord Protector was even willing to talk to Nilbog given he's clearly done some manner of research on him and should know that he created his "kingdom" by exterminating every last man, woman, and child within its boundaries when first establishing it.

He committed an act of localized genocide to create living space for his bio-engineered subjects. Would have thought this would be one of the areas where the Lord Protector goes scorched earth.
 
…he is unwilling to even consider working with the Protectorate but will negotiate with genocidal mass murdering lunatics.
He committed an act of localized genocide to create living space for his bio-engineered subjects. Would have thought this would be one of the areas where the Lord Protector goes scorched earth.

This is a case where, to use Pterry's turn of phrase, the words have twisted just like a snake: there is, by definition, no such thing as "localized genocide". Either you killed all of the group (genocide) or you did not (not genocide); as I don't think there were any unique-to-Ellisburg cultural or racial groups of humans, then no genocide occured. But, like 'decimation', the word has been mis-used to the point it's nearly lost all meaning...

And arguably you can't even apply 'mass murder' to the situation. The vast majority of Ellisburgians are still alive. Just...no longer human. That you can pin on Nilbog, certainly - "transformation most foul"? - and arguably mass Mastering, since as far as can be told the transformed former-humans are happy in their new states when by rights they should be constantly screaming.

When you have someone who's utterly despicable, and who has unarguable acts of despicableness to prove it, over-egging the pudding by tacking on things that aren't factual is (as the very least applicable phrase) unnecessary.

(Also, in a case of irony, given Nilbog's creations live solely within the walls of Ellisburg, the Lord Protector 'going scorched earth' would be genocide.)
 
And arguably you can't even apply 'mass murder' to the situation. The vast majority of Ellisburgians are still alive. Just...no longer human. That you can pin on Nilbog, certainly - "transformation most foul"? - and arguably mass Mastering, since as far as can be told the transformed former-humans are happy in their new states when by rights they should be constantly screaming.

Mass murder can be applied, since he essentially reduced their bodies to slurry, which tends to be a death sentence, before converting their biomass to make new creatures.

Plus there were most likely people in the town that were killed trying to resist his monsters.

If they keep their minds after that then they honestly could be screaming inside their heads while the little personalities that Nilbog made puppeteer their bodies.

It's still weird that LP would help Nilbog, given his crimes and atrocities, as well as letting him stay in power, when he's clearly insane and given the opportunity would most likely try to make more of the world into his vision of insanity.
 
Paul has met Desire and Dream. If he had to meet another Endless, I would prefer Death or Destruction. For Death, she could spend her one day a year as a mortal hanging out with Paul. Paul having to explain that the goth girl he is on a date with is Death would be fun. For Destruction, I can imagine Paul just somehow running into him. Paul would ask about him, as Hinon said he disappeared. After explaining that he wants to create instead of destroy, Paul could relate, as Paul also prefers creating to help make the world a better place than destroying to keep the world safe, ie. Righteous Face Punching.

Since Paul will be immortal, I wouldn't be surprised if he will eventually meet all of the members of the Endless.
 
Paul has met Desire and Dream. If he had to meet another Endless, I would prefer Death or Destruction. For Death, she could spend her one day a year as a mortal hanging out with Paul. Paul having to explain that the goth girl he is on a date with is Death would be fun. For Destruction, I can imagine Paul just somehow running into him. Paul would ask about him, as Hinon said he disappeared. After explaining that he wants to create instead of destroy, Paul could relate, as Paul also prefers creating to help make the world a better place than destroying to keep the world safe, ie. Righteous Face Punching.

Since Paul will be immortal, I wouldn't be surprised if he will eventually meet all of the members of the Endless.

Maybe help Destruction find some new way of doing things.

Or hell, even potentially getting him to change completely like how Delirium changed, but with less insanity.
 
Nilbog doesn't transform people. Nilbog breaks them down into raw materials and uses said materials to create creatures.

And even if you want to argue semantics with the use of the term genocide, he still doesn't really seem like the kind of person that the Lord Protector would seek friendly relations with.

Not unless LP has gotten significantly more villainous.
 
Nilbog doesn't transform people. Nilbog breaks them down into raw materials and uses said materials to create creatures.

And even if you want to argue semantics with the use of the term genocide, he still doesn't really seem like the kind of person that the Lord Protector would seek friendly relations with.

Not unless LP has gotten significantly more villainous.

It is weird that he's helping him.

While he's not on the same level of evil Tangseid, since he allows free will among his subjects and those who work closely to him and doesn't abuse his subject while giving himself some half assed justification and rationalization on why what he's doing isn't evil, maybe having the Ancient Spirits of Evil's blessing, or whatever it is that allowed him to call upon their power when fighting Krona, did something to him that made some of his decisions seem...off.

The Ophidian wasn't actually a malicious entity so much as one that was purely greedy and having difficulties in understanding mortals, so that could be a reason why Paul didn't become actively evil, but the Spirits are actively malicious and could have altered the way LP thinks.

We know Paul had his mindset altered after his enlightenment and bonding with the Ophidian, to the point where some of his decisions don't make much sense, so it is possible that LP was also altered after his enlightenment and whatever the Spirits of Evil did to him.

The Yellow Rings also do tend to encourage sociopathic mindsets in their wielders.
 
All Pauls seem to cut the bad guys a lot of slack whilst giving the heroes very little. Low tolerance for perceived hypocrisy I suppose.

The various versions do seem to have a habit of taking the villains side and considering their actions to be sympathetic more often than they do the good guys.

Well the only one I don't think we've seen cut the bad guys any slack would have to be Ringman, the one in the Stargirl universe.

And possibly Common Sense, depending on what he's been doing.

W40K may also count, because I don't think there's anything or anyone that we would consider a good guy in that insane crapsack of a universe, well maybe aside from Isha.

On a side note, anyone surprised that Vaermina hasn't commented on this chapter yet?

This seems like something they'd be all over, given LP's rather weird actions, which could prove their belief that this version is either evil or incompetent, and quite honestly I think a lot of people here would agree at least partially with them, seeing as his actions really don't make sense this time.
 
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