With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Finagle007 · Aug 5, 2020

Albert Scoot said:
Weren't the Amazons made from mud, can he get one of the gods to play-do him into a real boy.

No, only Diana and Donna were made from mud. The other Amazons are flesh-and-blood, Daughter-of-Eve humans.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
on today's babysitter.

remove 'on' , or add 'roster' at the end

Mr Zoat said:
"'Kid' Flash

remove '

Mr Zoat said:
notes it detail

'in' not 'it'

Mr Zoat said:
one of the Olympians

Gaia is a good bet.

She made Diana and may still owe OL for saving Eunanthe the dryad.

Something similar happened in Assimilation after Kori asked her to give Jacob his ability to feel things again.

Mr Zoat · Aug 5, 2020

Idkusername said:
This sentence on nonsensesical.

Thank you, corrected.

Albert Scoot said:
Weren't the Amazons made from mud,

Not in this story.

can he get one of the gods to play-do him into a real boy.

Maybe. The SI does mention that as a possibility.

Darko said:
remove '

No, those are intentional.

'in' not 'it'

Thank you, corrected.

Zig · Aug 5, 2020

Idkusername said:
This sentence on nonsensesical.

It's not. It's just a sneak peak of the next Eros arc.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
." I hesitates. "

maybe 'hesitate'

Stsword · Aug 5, 2020

Albert Scoot said:
Weren't the Amazons made from mud, can he get one of the gods to play-do him into a real boy.

In New Earth continuity the original Amazons were the souls of murdered women who Gaea collected, and were then given new bodies transformed from clay.

Zoat isn't using that, since he made Diana's origin signify her being a Titan.

Either Zoat ignored or hadn't noticed that making people out of earth is in fact the Olympian's goto in Greek myth and that if being fashioned out of earth makes one a titan than the Justice League would consist of one kryptonian and a bunch of titans, since according to Greek myth all humans would be descendants of Pandora's daughter who survived the flood (Pyrrha), her husband also descended from a titan (Deucalion son of Prometheus), and the folks the Greek gods made out of rock to help replenish the human race.

DC showed that myth was true more or less, although Prometheus and his brother were in fact just humans.

Pandora was in fact a previous incarnation of Wonder Woman, so in DC comics it turns out everyone in the human race is a descendant of Wonder Woman.

moralrelativity · Aug 5, 2020

Agumentic said:
If Venturia was still a part of Atlantis, then some part of Atlantis would, in fact, be studying the dream magic, since that's what OL asked of their mages.

Thank you! THAT was the link that I was missing. Appreciate your help and the replies from others as well.

moralrelativity · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
It recharges from ambient magic energy, so as long as you don't go into space power consumption isn't an issue.

I think this needs a comma after 'space'. But I also think I like commas more than you do Mr Zoat.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Stsword said:
In New Earth continuity the original Amazons were the souls of murdered women who Gaea collected, and were then given new bodies transformed from clay.

Zoat isn't using that, since he made Diana's origin signify her being a Titan.

Either Zoat ignored or hadn't noticed that making people out of earth is in fact the Olympian's goto in Greek myth and that if being fashioned out of earth makes one a titan than the Justice League would consist of one kryptonian and a bunch of titans, since according to Greek myth all humans would be descendants of Pandora's daughter who survived the flood (Pyrrha), her husband also descended from a titan (Deucalion son of Prometheus), and the folks the Greek gods made out of rock to help replenish the human race.

DC showed that myth was true more or less, although Prometheus and his brother were in fact just humans.

Pandora was in fact a previous incarnation of Wonder Woman, so in DC comics it turns out everyone in the human race is a descendant of Wonder Woman.

That whole 'all myths are true' thing doesn't really apply in this story.

Also there have been a lot of retcons and different stories that cast some serious doubt on that whole thing.

Plus even if it's true in the New Earth continuity that doesn't mean that Zoat can't just make it so it isn't true in this story, seeing as this isn't New Earth, even if Zoat borrows elements from it, and I don't think anything in YJ confirmed the comic origins of the Amazons, so it doesn't go against canon.

Making people out of earth may not be the Olympians go to in Earth 16, aside from Diana, even if the myths say it is, seeing as myths can say a lot of things that aren't true.

And being made out of earth probably doesn't make one a Titan in this story, but being bestowed some power by Gaia probably does.

Chojin Patriarch · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
26th April
07:03 GMT -5

Sanderson looks up as I walk into the kitchen and take a seat opposite him.

"So you're today's babysitter."

Well, someone needs to do it. You're not in the best position right now, mentally speaking, I suspect. 70 years or so locked away, and transformed into living sand on top of that... That'd do a number on anyone's mind.

"You need help, I'm here to give it."

He turns his head back towards his cereal bowl. "You know I can't eat this? It just sits… In me until I change shape, and then it falls out. The milk is the worst part."

Now that's unpleasant. Can he even taste it? Or is the simple act of doing it enough for him to feel sated?

"Can you eat sand?"

"'Kid' Flash already thought of that. I can, but it doesn't do anything. And it feels really weird, like it never really becomes part of me."

"Makes sense. However this happened to you, you couldn't function without some way to differentiate between the bits that are part of you and the bits that aren't."

So the sand that makes him up is.. 'different' somehow. An avenue of study, certainly.

Okay, awkward bit.

"I know Diana's already talked to you about school, but I was wondering if anyone had asked-? No, I'm wondering what you wanted to do about being made of sand."

I mean, unless he somehow works out how to morph back into flesh...

"What can I do?"

I take an enchanted necklace out of my equipment harness and put in on the table in front of him.

Interesting. A custom job, clearly.

"There's a range of options, and that's step one."

"I don't wear jewellery. Or clothes."

Not like he has anything to cover up right now, technically. Only some sand shaped like it.

"It's enchanted. One of my particular talents is locating solutions to apparently intractable problems. This… Should make you feel more human. I got the original put together for a man named Matthew Hagen, who got turned into clay-rich mud. It took a little while to get a version adapted for you, but we're pretty sure that it will work now."

How is Clayface doing right now? Contemplating his future career options? Cursing Talia Head's name?

He reaches for it with his right hand. "What exactly does it-?"

The change starts the moment he touches it, the 'flesh' parts of his body gaining a fleshy appearance and his clothing starting to look like clothing again. He gasps in shock, dropping the amulet. As it clatters against the table his body shifts back.

Oh, my. Illusion or shapeshifting magic? I doubt it could be rendered permanent easily, unless they could enchant his entire mass at once.

"That-! It felt-!"

"Yes, you won't just look human to everyone else. It also give you sensory feedback. I don't know how you perceive the world as a man made out of sand-."

That is some amazing stuff. I'm guessing it works by psychic transference of information, or similar...

"Do you know what it's like not to be able to feel your own heart beating?"

"Yes. I once had to turn myself into a cyborg, and I replaced my heart with a pump."

Kind of useful, being able to commiserate with someone on something like that.

That appears to take the wind out of his sails slightly.

"Oh. How did you..? Fix it?"

"Power ring." I shrug. "Everything apart from the brain is basically brain-support anyway. I can transmute machine into flesh and back again. You're difficult because you don't have a brain and your mind is distributed across your body with magic." I hesitates. "I assume magic, because I can't work out how a piezoelectric consciousness would work and you were transformed by an alchemical solution."

Basically, A Wizard Did It. By accident. And he didn't know he was even doing magic...

He nods and picks it up again, holding it in both-

Canis strides in, sketchbook in hand, pencil already in motion.

Dude, you haven't got enough material to work with? And how did you even know this was happening?

-hands, the transformative effect taking hold again. Ignoring the pencil-scratching sound and Canis's stare, he cautiously lifts his left hand away and runs it through his hair.

"Oh God. Is this permanent?"

I doubt it. There wouldn't be nearly enough drama involved if it were.

"It recharges from ambient magic energy, so as long as you don't go into space power consumption isn't an issue. But you need to remember that this is all appearance; you're still made of sand underneath it all."

He nods, lowering his left hand and staring at it for a moment before pulling in his fingers and turning it into a sandy bulb.

And I bet the spell plays weirdly with that. It must also look bizarre as hell.

"This feels weirder."

"Because the spell is only designed for things that are human-shaped. It's trying to give you the feedback you'd get from a hand when you don't physically have a hand."

An odd kind of phantom limb syndrome, basically. Wonder what would happen if he changed his entire form?

He nods, re-extruding his fingers. "So these aren't clothes and this isn't hair, but it can pretend."

I nod. "Which is why I want to know what you want to do next. The magic people I work with find this all fascinating, so the cost isn't a problem. The problem is the decidedly finite pool of people who can meaningfully work on this, which is why you need to tell me what outcome you want so I can tell them what they should be working on."

Ah, decisions, decisions. Become human again, but lose the sand powers. Keep the sand powers, but miss out on simple human things. Or something else.

He puts the necklace around his neck, wiggles a little to make sure that it remains active when moving, then nods.

"What are my options?"

"We can try and transfer your consciousness into a new human body. Since I don't have any record of your genetic structure it won't be exactly the same as the one you were born with, but I've got pictures of you and records on your closest relations so it'll be close."

Tricky. How can you be sure the mind and soul would attach properly to the new form?

He doesn't look comfortable with that. Which is reasonable. I suppose that I could try and find an old hair or skin cell or something. DNA lasts a very long time. But finding-.

"And what happens to the copy?"

Huh, that's an interesting way to look at it.

I blink. "I'm sorry?"

"The new body. What happens to its consciousness? When I get… Put in there?"

I shake my head. "No, no, it wouldn't have one. For goodness sake, Sanderson, what sort of person do you think I am?"

Well, he's only known you for less than a week. He hasn't had a chance to see the Cake Man, Spider-lover side of you.

"Oh. Right. Sorry, I didn't-. It just sounded like mad.. Frankenstein-science. I shouldn't have said that."

He actually.. holds out his right hand.

Heh, both a gesture of apology, and a chance to test the sensations the amulet gives him.

"Okay." I take his hand and shake it. "But please try to remember that despite my eccentricities I am a superhero. I'm not going to murder people for the sake of personal advantage."

No, that would be the Renegade. Or 'Evil' Paul...

He nods, releasing my hand. "How long will it take?"

"No idea. Creating a 'blank' human body is easy. Transferring a consciousness isn't too hard, but since we don't understand how you work there are a lot of added risks. And unless you're familiar with the magic involved yourself there would be a risk that you might 'snap back' into the sand that you're occupying now."

Like I said. It's a matter of how strongly attached he is to the magic sand making up his current form.

"Alright. What are my other options?"

"We could try undoing the transformation spell." He opens his mouth but I hold up my right hand. "We don't know how you were turned into sand. People are going over Mister Dodds' notes in detail now, but they're going to have to relearn everything he did before they can even think about how to undo the results of the test that changed you. It might not even be possible."

But that could take a couple of years, even with the best and brightest working on it. And there may have been something not written down involved.

He nods. "Are there any other options?"

"You can stay like this. You're nearly immortal and have super powers; that's not so bad. There's a man I know called Rama Khan who can make bodies out of coloured sand; he might be able to tutor you." He doesn't look impressed. "We could try making a deal with an eldritch life form to change you."

I mean, Gaea might be willing to help. If they ask really nicely.

"Like a.. demon..?"

"I do know a few demons who could charge a price we could bare, but I was thinking about one of the Olympians or possibly Morpheus himself. We wouldn't learn anything about the process and the price might still be considerable, but that's probably the fastest option."

It's just a matter of what Morpheus might ask in return. They've already bothered him enough for one lifetime. Upset him, and he might go all Fae on you...

"I'm not so keen on doing that."

"As you will. We could try creating a new spell to grant you human form without directly undoing the original transformation. We can make you a body you can control by proxy without being fully transferred into it. Or you could learn magic yourself and focus on self-transformation spells."

All possibilities. And all a lot of work and time. It's ultimately up to him.

He nods. "Look, I appreciate the help, but this is a lot to take in. Can I think about it?"

I nod. "Of course. Let me know what you decide."

And there's still the question of how he's adapting to the modern world. What's he think of things like the internet, Social media or even just television?

Well, Sandy's doing surprisingly well, it seems. I assume he got the whole angst out of his system while he was in confinement, and is focusing on settling into a new century so it doesn't sink in how long he was 'away'... Let's hope there's no breakdowns in his future.

...charge a price we could bare...

...charge a price we could bear...

Handlewithcare · Aug 5, 2020

Ah, the "let's present reasonable options to people who thought they had unsolvable problems" part. How I missed thee.

rkyeun · Aug 5, 2020

"I'm not going to murder people for the sake of personal advantage."

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, someone needs to do it. You're not in the best position right now, mentally speaking, I suspect. 70 years or so locked away, and transformed into living sand on top of that... That'd do a number on anyone's mind.

Unless you were Professor Paradox from Ben 10 and just got bored being crazy after a while.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Now that's unpleasant. Can he even taste it? Or is the simple act of doing it enough for him to feel sated?

This reminds me of a story I once read of a guy that travels back in time and uses some psychological tricks to convince people that they are eating food.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Dude, you haven't got enough material to work with? And how did you even know this was happening?

An artist can never have too much material.

As for how he knows, he obviously sensed Sandy's pain and anguish and decided to make an art project out of it.

Seriously given his divine nature as a God of Art this is highly possible.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I doubt it. There wouldn't be nearly enough drama involved if it were.

Even Zoat isn't immune from adding comic book cliches.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh, both a gesture of apology, and a chance to test the sensations the amulet gives him.

Wonder how he and Ratchet, the Orange Lantern OL saved from having his limbs removed, would get along, seeing as they can now both touch people?

Chojin Patriarch said:
No, that would be the Renegade. Or 'Evil' Paul...

Even renegade has some moral boundaries he wont cross, and I think murdering innocents is one of those.

Tangseid though, yeah, he'd do it and give himself some bullshit excuse and justification on why what he's doing isn't wrong.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I mean, Gaea might be willing to help. If they ask really nicely.

Gaia does owe OL for saving that dryad.

Something similar happened in 'Assimilation'. Basically the SI and Kori went to Themyscira where the Amazons would hold trials to get a blessing from the gods. Kori competed in one trial where she killed a Cyclops that was corrupted by the Brujeria some years ago and got Gaia's blessing, or more specifically she asked Gaia to make Jacob, the SI and Kori's boyfriend, be able to feel physical sensations again. Gaia granted her wish and then Jacob, who previously lacked a whole lot of the instinctual feelings that an organic body has, saw Kori and his body reacted in the natural way it does upon seeing a woman who can rival Diana in terms of beauty and they had sex then and there.

Sadly the author didn't write the ensuing lovemaking, not even on Ff.net.

Oh and Donna had to pry them away from each other with a magical crowbar.

Ah Donna, truly aside from Kori she is my favorite female DC character, even if there can't be a consistent origin story for her.

Wonder if the SI in that story is going to end up with both Kori and Donna?

Chojin Patriarch said:
It's just a matter of what Morpheus might ask in return. They've already bothered him enough for one lifetime. Upset him, and he might go all Fae on you...

He may still owe them, seeing as they found Sandy, but he didn't technically tell them where Melinoe was.

Plus OL rescued Caliope, who was Morpheus' previous girlfriend.

rkyeun said:

A better thing to say would be "I'm not going to murder innocent people for the sake of personal advantage", seeing as most, and quite possibly all, of the people he killed were far, far from innocent.

Slayer Anderson · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
One of my particular talents is locating solutions to apparently intractable problems.

This should be turned into a meme for Paul. It perfectly encapsulates his character in one sentence.

Also, obligatory reference:

who-am-i-i-am-a-man-with-a-very-particular-set-of-skills.jpg

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Slayer Anderson said:
This should be turned into a meme for Paul. It perfectly encapsulates his character in one sentence.

Also, obligatory reference:

OL: One of my many skills is pleasuring giant space spiders.

Vaermina · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"Power ring." I shrug. "Everything apart from the brain is basically brain-support anyway. I can transmute machine into flesh and back again. You're difficult because you don't have a brain and your mind is distributed across your body with magic." I hesitates. "I assume magic, because I can't work out how a piezoelectric consciousness would work and you were transformed by an alchemical solution."

You met a sentient gas cloud less then a week ago...

Mr Zoat said:
"Okay." I take his hand and shake it. "But please try to remember that despite my eccentricities I am a superhero. I'm not going to murder people for the sake of personal advantage."

I mean... You have in the past...

Prognostic Hannya · Aug 5, 2020

This presents some excellent trolling opportunities if Paragon was the type of person to do that.

Mr Zoat said:
"We could try making a deal with an eldritch life form to change you."

"Like a.. demon..?"

Paul: "Yeah. Don't worry, Mammon's a friend so he'll hook you up if I ask."

Sandy: "Y-ou… You don't a-actually mean the Mammon, right? The evil one, from the Bible?"

Paul: "You mean the inconceivably ancient and powerful demon lord who's the source of all human greed? Yeah, that's him. He's not actually that bad a guy, real reformist. I think you to would get along if you'd give it a chance."

Sandy: "O-Oh… t-that's nice…"

Sockmonkey · Aug 5, 2020

Darko said:
OL: One of my many skills is pleasuring giant space spiders.

Speaking of giant space spiders, OL could just make it so they only want to eat non-sapient creatures as eating people is the source of everyone's problem with them. Hell, the spider queen could make those alterations in the next generation herself now that I think of it.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Vaermina said:
You met a sentient gas cloud less then a week ago...

It's still weird that a human can become a sapient pile of sand.

And who knows, maybe Manga's species had something magical done to them early on in their evolution.

Vaermina said:
I mean... You have in the past...

True, but most, and possibly all, of them were evil bastards, so while he has killed people to get an advantage in the past they weren't innocent people. And should any body they fabricate have a mind of its own then it would be an innocent, which OL would have a problem killing.

Prognostic Hannya said:
"You mean the inconceivably ancient and powerful demon lord who's the source of all human greed?

Mammons powerful here, sure, but I wouldn't call his power inconceivable.

Plus I don't think he's the source of human greed in this story, that was probably some biblical exaggeration.

Mquz · Aug 5, 2020

Stsword said:
In New Earth continuity the original Amazons were the souls of murdered women who Gaea collected, and were then given new bodies transformed from clay.

Zoat isn't using that, since he made Diana's origin signify her being a Titan.

Either Zoat ignored or hadn't noticed that making people out of earth is in fact the Olympian's goto in Greek myth and that if being fashioned out of earth makes one a titan than the Justice League would consist of one kryptonian and a bunch of titans, since according to Greek myth all humans would be descendants of Pandora's daughter who survived the flood (Pyrrha), her husband also descended from a titan (Deucalion son of Prometheus), and the folks the Greek gods made out of rock to help replenish the human race.

DC showed that myth was true more or less, although Prometheus and his brother were in fact just humans.

Pandora was in fact a previous incarnation of Wonder Woman, so in DC comics it turns out everyone in the human race is a descendant of Wonder Woman.

Diana, unlike Donna, is a Titan specifically because she was made by Gaea from clay: she's a child directly of the earth. Even if she is a reincarnation of Pandora: there is no guarantee that Pandora was made in quite the same way - if she was made by the gods / titans she wouldn't be a Titan - Donna is specified to not be. Pandora could have been like Donna before she got reincarnated.

Mr Zoat · Aug 5, 2020

Darko said:
maybe 'hesitate'

Chojin Patriarch said:
...charge a price we could bear...

Thank you, corrected.

Dude, you haven't got enough material to work with? And how did you even know this was happening?

Art sense... Tingling.

Handlewithcare · Aug 5, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Art sense... Tingling.

No, that's your...ahem, Spidersense

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Handlewithcare said:
No, that's your...ahem, Spidersense

Canis doesn't have a spider sense, he's not a spider god, he's an art god.

Paul on the other hand...

Impartial Panic · Aug 5, 2020

Albert Scoot said:
Weren't the Amazons made from mud, can he get one of the gods to play-do him into a real boy.

He brought up Olympian intervention but Sandy wasn't too keen on it.
Probably the smart choice since Favors come at high cost with them.

Mr Zoat said:
"So you're On today's babysitter."

Sounds Like a talk show hosted by the Harley Quinn version of Tawny Young

Mr Zoat said:
"So you're today's babysitter."

Paul why would one sit on a baby?

"It's not a literal term Kori."

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Impartial Panic said:
Sounds Like a talk show hosted by the Harley Quinn version of Tawny Young

I can just picture her interviewing Princess, Paul's alien spider daughter, with Paul there and the stage erupts into Jerry Springer like insanity, due to Paul refusing to acknowledge Princess as his daughter.

She's such a little sweet potato pie.

Vaermina · Aug 5, 2020

Darko said:
True, but most, and possibly all, of them were evil bastards, so while he has killed people to get an advantage in the past they weren't innocent people. And should any body they fabricate have a mind of its own then it would be an innocent, which OL would have a problem killing.

You forgot about all the innocent slaves on the psion planet.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Vaermina said:
You forgot about all the innocent slaves on the psion planet.

Except he didn't kill them and by the time he got there they were already dead.

Senevri · Aug 5, 2020

Idkusername said:
This sentence on nonsensesical.

Non necessarily, if you know what I mean, nudge nudge, wink wink.

Vaermina · Aug 5, 2020

Darko said:
Except he didn't kill them and by the time he got there they were already dead.

You're thinking of Renegade.

Darko · Aug 5, 2020

Vaermina said:
You're thinking of Renegade.

No. Renegade rescued the various prisoners on the Psion homeworld.

In the paragon timeline when he went there after sensing the Psions mass death by orbital bombardment virtually all the prisoners, aside from the ones Kori rescued, were all dead.

They were killed by other people, not him.

And he also didn't approve of the genocide because of the innocent lives they could have saved, as well as the fact that it could have proved as good training for the OLC.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Verified Great Old One]

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

Versed in the lewd.

Recovering pendant.

Recovering pendant.

Connoisseur.

Veteran Lurker

Versed in the lewd.

Cabbitus Maximus

Connoisseur.

Orthodox Heretic

Connoisseur.

Well worn.

Knight of the Yuri Crusade

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Connoisseur.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Connoisseur.

Well worn.

Connoisseur.

Not too sore, are you?

Well worn.

Connoisseur.

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