With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Silverias]

"The world is doomed. I am still unwilling to step in at a higher threshold. Instead I mope."

 

[CrazyNoVa]

The White Fang started recruiting in Vale, and filled out a hall with people who wanted to join. Please note that that wasn't after a major atrocity or well-publicised incident of discrimination where emotions might be running high. That was just people who were interested in signing up with an active terrorist organisation.

Click to shrink...

True, but remember that in real-life, progressive minority rights movements or terrorist organizations can still pull in big crowds and mass recruitments even without major atrocities or well-publicised incidents happening first. Plus, remember that Remnant has it's own equivalent of Phones and the Internet via Scrolls and such, so they could have easily recruited members online, just like how some extremist groups do in real life.

Besides, if you have a society that treats a specific marginalized group badly enough, then of course there's going to be people from that marginalized group who will become desperate enough to join any, and I mean any organization that promises them better lives and conditions for themselves, their family or their loved ones, even if the organization's values conflict with your own. Also, remember that not all of them are as fanatical or insane as Adam, which is proven in Volume 5 when Blake convinces most of them to turn on him, thus proving that most of them were following him merely out of desperation, not loyalty. Which, if a version of Paul was present there, would give him a chance to potentially steal the organization from Adam, which could have some interesting results.

From what I recall, that's with Vale supposedly being one of the more progressive city-kingdoms.

Also, the White Fang are so damn dumb.

White Fang: You see that city? The nice one that's also one of the few bastions of civilization in a world full of monsters that want everyone dead? We're going to participate in a plan that would indiscriminately slaughter its entire population, human and faunus, if it were to succeed.

Like, sure, Sienna recognized how absolutely stupid such a plan would be with how much of a target it would paint on the backs of the faunus as a whole, but she got removed from power pretty damn quickly and easily. So it's not like a lot of them seem to disagree with her.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, Blake did manage to convince a lot of Adam's followers to abandon him in Volume 5, so they were clearly following him more out of fear and desperation than loyalty, and they clearly didn't completely agree with him either. Like I said, this could give Paul an advantage there, because he could potentially turn the entire organization against Adam if he plays his cards right,

And we see next to nothing to justify how crazy any of that is. What we instead see are things like blink and you miss it "no faunus allowed" signs in one or two businesses. You can't even point to Adam getting branded as a sign of especially bad treatment for the faunus, because the crew confirmed it wasn't even some special punishment reserved for faunus. Or even a punishment at all. They outright said that it happened because Adam was being a hotheaded little shit picking fights with people, and the person he picked a fight with that day grabbed the closest thing on hand to defend himself and it just happened to be a brand.

Click to shrink...

Really? Who said that? Because I don't recall seeing an author/producer statement about that anywhere. Because if that's true, then it's a really, REALLY stupid and contrived coincidence.

"While the existential dread is getting to me, I can answer questions. I was just sort of hoping more of the team would be here."

"Honestly…" I can hear Wallace's disquiet clearly. "We don't really get together as a team all that much. Batman's too busy running everything to come up with missions, everyone else on the Justice League is too busy stopping everything exploding to give us missions…"

Click to shrink...

Wait, so there's no Young Justice?

Goku: But then what are we in?!

"If the worst likely prediction comes to pass, China could collapse, resulting in multiple hostile nuclear-armed states. Oh, and if that happens we could lose about fifty million people to starvation alone. And if there are automated second strike systems out there that the League doesn't know about, it could result in global nuclear Armageddon."

Wallace's face creases further. "Haven't we had enough of those already?"

"You'd think. But it turns out that not interfering in national governments when times were good meant that an awful lot of disadvantageous social structures and poor decisions were allowed to continue to times like now." I look around. "Okay, if this is all we're getting, let's go to the training room and I'll give you a full briefing."

Click to shrink...

Honestly, it sounds like it would have been a no-win situation from the start. Even if this had happened to an Injustice or Justice Lord universe where the JLA interfered in national governments, it would have probably resulted in a different kind of clustercrap altogether.

 

[Rebu]

Certainly not when the White Fang are the apparently the only damn civil rights organization in the entire world. None of the people involved with it in its more peaceful days apparently gave enough of a damn to establish a new, non-violent organization to try to compete with them for the heart and soul of the faunus.

Click to shrink...

The first time we hear about the Fang in the series proper is a news report about how they attacked a peaceful Fanus rights protest.

I think there's some inferences we can draw.

 

[Duke Long]

Wallace shrugs. "Depends. Match is still interning with LexCorp-." I raise my eyebrows. "Yeah, I know. The guy cannot take a hint. And-"

I don't know why Artemis is staring at me.

Click to shrink...

Took me a moment, but I'm pretty sure she's thinking about how Oh El keeps going back to Lex? Or maybe she's just thinking back to the good old days of him being truly awful at noticing romantic hints?

"Mister McCulloch said that logistics weren't his thing. Technically, I don't even employ-" I hear the hanger zeta tubes activate. "-Leonard."

Click to shrink...

'hangar'?

Presumably nuclear war will be prevented, but it would be interesting if we got to see whether the League's anti-nuclear war plan actually works. I feel like it would really cement their status as the rulers of Earth if they just caught all of the rockets.

 

[WereDragon]

Wallace shrugs. "Depends. Match is still interning with LexCorp-." I raise my eyebrows. "Yeah, I know. The guy cannot take a hint. And-"

I don't know why Artemis is staring at me.

Click to shrink...

Clearly wondering why someone so buddy buddy with the known criminal mastermind is raising an eyebrow at someone else consorting with the same criminal mastermind.

"If the worst likely prediction comes to pass, China could collapse, resulting in multiple hostile nuclear-armed states. Oh, and if that happens we could lose about fifty million people to starvation alone. And if there are automated second strike systems out there that the League doesn't know about, it could result in global nuclear Armageddon."

Click to shrink...

A long while ago Paul was inducted into a conspiracy aimed at intercepting nuclear missiles in the event of a launch. Have they been keeping their plans updated?

 

[Ngamer11]

A long while ago Paul was inducted into a conspiracy aimed at intercepting nuclear missiles in the event of a launch. Have they been keeping their plans updated?

Click to shrink...

Those only take into account the ones the Justice League are aware of. It's entirely possible there are some that they weren't able to detect and you only need one to bring forth Armageddon.

 

[Antares1883]

Highly doubt China will collapse, the idea that everything relies on a highly centralised government is a bit of a silly meme, that said, could be an opportunity to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'hangar'?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[AngelicKnight.]

Yeah, but keep in mind, Weiss didn't know that at the time. She just automatically assumed that Sun was a criminal as soon as she saw him despite having never met him before, or not having any proof that he had actually commited a crime.

Click to shrink...

I mean as far as sun goes he appears being classed off a ship and across the docks by two guys in uniform, gets called a stowaway and then loudly declares he is a great stowaway.

It ain't murder or rape or anything, it's a minor crime, but he full on admits to having committed the crime he's been chased for near all of team RWBY. He is a self admitted criminal.

 

[Wivk]

I don't watch it but in rwby the dementors want to eat unhappy people, right? I would think the presence of predators hunting based on negative emotions for a long time would favor the creation of people with emotional disorders, whether from physical or mental causes, that can't experience negative emotions or have them dulled or disconnected. Also if nature wasn't doing it fast enough there should be state sponsored mengeles slicing brains apart and doping people up to find a way to physically prevent people from experiencing any demon summoning feelings. That would be way more effective than mecha, and much cheaper as well. I'm pretty sure they failed hard at their world building and just pretended no one knew sadness attracted the dementors despite the entire world fighting them for thousands of years, and no one ever bothered to remove sadness despite it being far easier to do than removing those monsters. If it was me I would have tried starting a cult that worshipped the demons as saviors that only devoured the wicked that they should rejoice at the sight of and praise for destroying the enemies of god. Wouldn't people with beliefs like that be perfectly safe and inherit the earth?

 

[haralo99]

I wake and find this a new threadmark, finished it and go to see what other people think about. I find that people are talking about a badly writen western 3D cartoon. Talk about how the badly written terrorist group would have the MC IS would step and take over. Decide I am laking context and go back to see what I missed and how this started. Think I my day off is having a good start.

 

[FeepingCreature]

I'm pretty sure they failed hard at their world building and just pretended no one knew sadness attracted the dementors despite the entire world fighting them for thousands of years, and no one ever bothered to remove sadness despite it being far easier to do than removing those monsters.

Click to shrink...

Yes well if you'd done the slightest bit of research you'd know they literally had a giant civil war against the guys who tried to do that.

Re the actual story, I guess there's not much to say at the moment because nobody is doing anything yet.

 

[Duke Long]

Highly doubt China will collapse, the idea that everything relies on a highly centralised government is a bit of a silly meme, that said, could be an opportunity to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Click to shrink...

Can't remember if this has ever been stated in the story, but this China isn't necessarily the same as real China. Could be that in universe 16 China is much more centralised and didn't roll communism back as much.

 

[Lurking Shade]

I don't watch it but in rwby the dementors want to eat unhappy people, right? I would think the presence of predators hunting based on negative emotions for a long time would favor the creation of people with emotional disorders, whether from physical or mental causes, that can't experience negative emotions or have them dulled or disconnected.

Click to shrink...

Its more that they prioritize emotions, as they will target infrastructure in the absence of people for example. And under extremely unusual, hyper specific circumstances they will target stronger people over weaker people.

 

[Darko]

Clearly wondering why someone so buddy buddy with the known criminal mastermind is raising an eyebrow at someone else consorting with the same criminal mastermind.

Click to shrink...

Paul knows that he's basically crazy and that the things he does are crazy, so he can still be surprised that others do similar things.

 

[xSieg]

Highly doubt China will collapse, the idea that everything relies on a highly centralised government is a bit of a silly meme, that said, could be an opportunity to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Click to shrink...

You underestimate how centralized DC China is. Keep in mind that like, four out of the Great Ten can self-duplicate a number of times and operate autonomously for at least a day.

It's pretty reasonable to think that without pressing need to decentralize after the Cultural Revolution purge due to having actual high end superhumans working as the Party muscle that they never bothered decentralizing their logistics center in Earth 16. Lots of things seem to point to that, even if only by coincidence, like how they aren't the richest nation in current day YJ and how they're stuck researching the Durians and isolating themselves from the world. It really feels like 80/90s China and not the modern version we have IRL (which we shall not discuss as it is liable to infringe the modern politics rule.)

 

[Radix]

Highly doubt China will collapse, the idea that everything relies on a highly centralised government is a bit of a silly meme, that said, could be an opportunity to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Click to shrink...

When they say collapse, they dont mean everything is gone and society breaks down. They mean that the government collapses and now there are a bunch of regional governments competing to fill the gaps. Those regional governments will disagree on who gets what, directly increasing conflict.

Supply lines will significantly break down given there are now a bunch of competing authorities in conflict, and just casual disorganization will lead to people starving because trucks with groceries dont arrive on time.

Society will go on, but it will be messy in the short term.

 

[Steelplaza]

"Honestly…" I can hear Wallace's disquiet clearly. "We don't really get together as a team all that much. Batman's too busy running everything to come up with missions, everyone else on the Justice League is too busy stopping everything exploding to give us missions…"

I hear Artemis sit down across from me. "And all the intelligence agencies that share info with the League either can't or won't, so we don't know what we could be doing. You've been working in Hub City, right?

Click to shrink...

Rather surprising that the Peace Agents haven't called them up and begun "suggesting" missions like they did with Paul. Isn't that the whole point of them, to provide coordination?

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I don't watch it but in rwby the dementors want to eat unhappy people, right? I would think the presence of predators hunting based on negative emotions for a long time would favor the creation of people with emotional disorders, whether from physical or mental causes, that can't experience negative emotions or have them dulled or disconnected. Also if nature wasn't doing it fast enough there should be state sponsored mengeles slicing brains apart and doping people up to find a way to physically prevent people from experiencing any demon summoning feelings. That would be way more effective than mecha, and much cheaper as well. I'm pretty sure they failed hard at their world building and just pretended no one knew sadness attracted the dementors despite the entire world fighting them for thousands of years, and no one ever bothered to remove sadness despite it being far easier to do than removing those monsters. If it was me I would have tried starting a cult that worshipped the demons as saviors that only devoured the wicked that they should rejoice at the sight of and praise for destroying the enemies of god. Wouldn't people with beliefs like that be perfectly safe and inherit the earth?

Click to shrink...

That would be a horrible idea. The mastermind behind the monsters wants ALL of humanity dead, so she can just order her minions to attack all humans regardless of their current emotional state.

I wake and find this a new threadmark, finished it and go to see what other people think about. I find that people are talking about a badly writen western 3D cartoon. Talk about how the badly written terrorist group would have the MC IS would step and take over. Decide I am laking context and go back to see what I missed and how this started. Think I my day off is having a good start.

Click to shrink...

Welcome to the internet, where people can't even agree on the weather. We have cookies!

When they say collapse, they dont mean everything is gone and society breaks down. They mean that the government collapses and now there are a bunch of regional governments competing to fill the gaps. Those regional governments will disagree on who gets what, directly increasing conflict.

Supply lines will significantly break down given there are now a bunch of competing authorities in conflict, and just casual disorganization will lead to people starving because trucks with groceries dont arrive on time.

Society will go on, but it will be messy in the short term.

Click to shrink...

Okay, so they would all split up into feudal regions warring for total control over the greater country?

Wonder how Taiwan would fit into all this?

 

[ForeverShogo]

From what I remember, if Salem actually wanted all of humanity dead they'd have already been killed off a long time ago. What she really wants is the ability to die permanently. It's just that the only thing she thinks could do it would also kill off humanity. She's also really stupid in her own right, because her immortality is a curse from the Brother Gods and yet her entire plan is contingent on them giving her what she wants despite not learning the lesson they intended for her.

As for the thing on Adam being branded, it was said by Miles Luna. One of the big three creators for RWBY and the voice actor of Jaune. I believe in a commentary for the episode where Adam being branded gets revealed.

It being revealed that it happened as part of Adam fighting/arguing with a worker, with the idea that he was always a terrible person even when he was younger, was something they wanted to do but got cut.

 

[Darko]

Rather surprising that the Peace Agents haven't called them up and begun "suggesting" missions like they did with Paul. Isn't that the whole point of them, to provide coordination?

Click to shrink...

The Agents may think that the Team can handle themselves.

They may also be so focused on Paul because they know he's more powerful than a lot of people.

The only person on the Team that may have the same level of destructive power as Paul is Kon.

However, the heat vision that Helios gave him is not precise, so he may not use it because at the level he'd need to damage one of them or an OMAC, there's a chance that he can destroy a city.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

From what I remember, if Salem actually wanted all of humanity dead they'd have already been killed off a long time ago. What she really wants is the ability to die permanently. It's just that the only thing she thinks could do it would also kill off humanity. She's also really stupid in her own right, because her immortality is a curse from the Brother Gods and yet her entire plan is contingent on them giving her what she wants despite not learning the lesson they intended for her.

Click to shrink...

In her defense, what else is she supposed to do to achieve her goal? She wants to die, but there's literally nothing else on Remnant that can kill her. So her only move is to keep screwing up the Brothers' plans and creations until they get annoyed with her enough to finally get rid of her. If anyone is really being an idiot, it's the brothers for not killing both her and Ozpin right away instead of cursing them both with immortality.

The Agents may think that the Team can handle themselves.

They may also be so focused on Paul because they know he's more powerful than a lot of people.

The only person on the Team that may have the same level of destructive power as Paul is Kon.

However, the heat vision that Helios gave him is not precise, so he may not use it because at the level he'd need to damage one of them or an OMAC, there's a chance that he can destroy a city.

Click to shrink...

Maybe they don't want to give the Team missions to avoid attracting OL's attention.

 

[ForeverShogo]

The Brother Gods were definitely idiots for not smiting her the first time she refused to learn her lesson and instead tried to overthrow them.

As for the Young Justice team . . . I dunno. Maybe Batman wants to go easy on them after all the stuff that happened recently. He's ultimately the one in control of everything, after all.

 

[Lurking Shade]

Really? Who said that? Because I don't recall seeing an author/producer statement about that anywhere. Because if that's true, then it's a really, REALLY stupid and contrived coincidence.

Click to shrink...

This is basically all that they said on it that I can find:

Obviously, Yang and Blake had a really traumatic event that they went through together that, you know had this idea that the SDC, you know, brands and labels a lot of their cargo and stuff and this idea that, although you know it's- we never say it so I guess technically it's not canon or whatever but.. We had this idea that, you know Adam, as a terrible of a person as he was, when he was younger, potentially got into an argument with someone at an SDC place and someone grabbed a brand and just let him have it and that lead to the injury that we saw on his face in volume 6.

Click to shrink...

From what I remember, if Salem actually wanted all of humanity dead they'd have already been killed off a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

I don't think its really addressed, beyond people assume that she fears the possibility that humanity unites against her enough for the borthers to give Ozpin a pass if she acted openly before she was ready to finish things off. Or that if she killed everyone they wouldn't come back when summoned because there'd be no one to jduge.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

The Brother Gods were definitely idiots for not smiting her the first time she refused to learn her lesson and instead tried to overthrow them..

Click to shrink...

I know, right? They deliberately threw a wrench in their own plans, whatever they are. Who in their right mind even does that?

As for the Young Justice team . . . I dunno. Maybe Batman wants to go easy on them after all the stuff that happened recently. He's ultimately the one in control of everything, after all.

Click to shrink...

Ironically, I think the Justice League ended up being more traumatized than the Team from this whole mess. At least from that we can see from Paul's POV.

SNIP

Click to shrink...

Okay, but did they ever state the exact reason for the argument in the first place? Because if it was legit self-defense on the SDC's part and Adam was in the wrong, then fine, but if it wasn't, then the point is moot.

 

[Lurking Shade]

Okay, but did they ever state the exact reason for the argument in the first place? Because if it was legit self-defense on the SDC's part and Adam was in the wrong, then fine, but if it wasn't, then the point is moot.

Click to shrink...

They didn't. That and his Amity Arena card are as far as I'm aware everything that's been said on it:

Adam Taurus used to gaze up at the sky with bright blue eyes whenever he could, between shifts in the dust mines, dreaming of the day he would leave the tunnels behind to find his place in the world. But what he found instead was himself... on the ground, staring up at the three letters that damned him now and forever.

Scarred. Despised. Cold.

Adam's heart grows black, his hatred red hot. The final traces of love, the beauty he let go, never returns, and as the last petal falls, Adam is cursed to forever remain a beast. Because, in this tale as old as time, there is no happy ending. In this story... HE is the monster.

Adam Taurus had finally found his place, and he would watch humanity... burn.

Click to shrink...

 

[Vaermina]

Those only take into account the ones the Justice League are aware of. It's entirely possible there are some that they weren't able to detect and you only need one to bring forth Armageddon.

Click to shrink...

Any ICBM's they weren't able to detect would be detectable upon launch by the sci-fi sensors the League possesses.

Even if we assume China scry warded their ICBM's, and built them out of invisible super science materials, they would still be detectable upon launch. Because while those things might hide the physical structure it wouldn't hide the giant heat plume from the rocket.

Also, no, you don't only need one. You need a huge number for Armageddon. Which can't happen even if everyone launched everything because the League would intercept a significant percentage of those weapons.

In her defense, what else is she supposed to do to achieve her goal? She wants to die, but there's literally nothing else on Remnant that can kill her. So her only move is to keep screwing up the Brothers' plans and creations until they get annoyed with her enough to finally get rid of her. If anyone is really being an idiot, it's the brothers for not killing both her and Ozpin right away instead of cursing them both with immortality.

Click to shrink...

Steal the "create anything" treasure and use it to build an FTL spaceship to chase after the Brothers.

 

[Duke Long]

Any ICBM's they weren't able to detect would be detectable upon launch by the sci-fi sensors the League possesses.

Even if we assume China scry warded their ICBM's, and built them out of invisible super science materials, they would still be detectable upon launch. Because while those things might hide the physical structure it wouldn't hide the giant heat plume from the rocket.

Also, no, you don't only need one. You need a huge number for Armageddon. Which can't happen even if everyone launched everything because the League would intercept a significant percentage of those weapons.

Click to shrink...

I tend to agree with you here, Vaermina, though to be fair it's possible (very unlikely) that Chinese ICBMs don't all use rocket propulsion. Maybe they have some schizotech gravity drives or something.

But even if a couple of nukes got through I agree it's unlikely to come to a full-fledged nuclear war. If some Chinese splinters nuke each other, it's far from guaranteed that other nuclear powers will launch anything, particularly if a bunch of Peace Operatives teleport into the vicinity of launch-capable leaders and 'advise' them not to do it.