With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Oh wow, haven't seen that brought out for ages.

Click to shrink...

There was a previous scene where he was hit with a newspaper?

Link please.

 

[Steelplaza]

Once again, feels like Brother Eye is being ignored. The SI is well aware of the comics storyline where Batman builds the AI, and then the AI goes crazy/evil and starts trying to kill everyone. Yet everyone talks about Batman and never about this AI, which can act independently and might have its own plans and goals.

 

[LazySloth13]

Whatever happened to Sphere/Super-Cycle isn't she a sentient piece of New God technology that could help figure out what's going on with either Tetch or Batman. Did she wind up returning to New Genesis or is she busy out in the field with Kon?

 

[Radix]

Honestly Paul's blindspot for Lex's obvious evil is getting old at this point.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Honestly Paul's blindspot for Lex's obvious evil is getting old at this point.

Click to shrink...

It's not that he's blind to it so much as he's trying to make Lex see reason.

Remember. this is the Paragon route.

 

[Radix]

It's not that he's blind to it so much as he's trying to make Lex see reason.

Remember. this is the Paragon route.

Click to shrink...

And it should be very clear at this point that despite his pretenses, Lex isnt a reasonable person. He is intelligent and rational, but he doesnt operate on reason, his motivations come from his Id.

For all his talk on helping humanity, his motivation comes from him personally being shown up by aliens and superheroes.

And this goes beyond just trying to get him to see reason. Paragon keeps giving Lex tips and other edges that are only enhancing the Light, who Paul still hasn't dealt with after several years, although tbf they are keeping a low profile.

 

[Old Knife]

And it should be very clear at this point that despite his pretenses, Lex isnt a reasonable person. He is intelligent and rational, but he doesnt operate on reason, his motivations come from his Id.

For all his talk on helping humanity, his motivation comes from him personally being shown up by aliens and superheroes.

And this goes beyond just trying to get him to see reason. Paragon keeps giving Lex tips and other edges that are only enhancing the Light, who Paul still hasn't dealt with after several years, although tbf they are keeping a low profile.

Click to shrink...

You're basing this on other Lex Luthor Characterizations that may or may not be valid.
Seriously, even Renegade fixed his Lex eventually.

 

[Duke Long]

Whatever happened to Sphere/Super-Cycle isn't she a sentient piece of New God technology that could help figure out what's going on with either Tetch or Batman. Did she wind up returning to New Genesis or is she busy out in the field with Kon?

Click to shrink...

I think she ended up being taken to New Genesis by those young New Gods or something. Really not sure though.

 

[Darko]

I think she ended up being taken to New Genesis by those young New Gods or something. Really not sure though.

Click to shrink...

Nope.

She's still with the Team, but she hasn't really showed up all that much.

 

[Silverias]

You're basing this on other Lex Luthor Characterizations that may or may not be valid.
Seriously, even Renegade fixed his Lex eventually.

Click to shrink...

Zoat has actually discussed why OL's persuasion of Lex failed. He equated it to something similar to Orvas Dren from Morrowind.

In Morrowind, you can intimidate people to get (temporary) increases in disposition. Basically, you threaten them, and for one conversation, they'll do what you want. Orvas Dren is unique in that, if you Intimidate him, failure has a normal response. Success has him -immediately- end conversation and attack you.

Lex is similar. OL successfully persuaded him back when they had their heart to heart. Lex actually had a moment of "Wait, could I be wrong?" and his response was not "Reason dicates I act on this realization.", instead, his response to a successful persuasion was, "There's no way I am wrong. Someone convincing me that I am not the greatest authority on my own means and ends must necessarily mean that I am being mind controlled or am in an otherwise altered state"

Lex recoils from reason if reason disagrees with him.

Renegade succeeded in convincing Lex by basically just giving Lex everything he wanted in a way he couldn't say no to, and let him come to the conclusion on his own.

 

[Radix]

You're basing this on other Lex Luthor Characterizations that may or may not be valid.
Seriously, even Renegade fixed his Lex eventually.

Click to shrink...

Renegade had to drag Lex kicking and screaming after he murdered all of Lex's friends and put him under the microscope of the American Government. Lex had literally no other choice, and really still doesnt.

 

[Dur'id the Druid]

There was a previous scene where he was hit with a newspaper?

Link please.

Click to shrink...

Happened way way back as being when he was with the Young Justice. I think it was either a Starfire or maybe Robin that hit him with a newspaper a few times?

 

[BartlettMagic]

She's still with the Team, but she hasn't really showed up all that much.

Click to shrink...

i thought that was the Renegade timeline? here in Paragon it left with the New God teens that crashed the mountain. i could be, and probably am, wrong.

also i'd like more information on this whole Batman/New God thing.

 

[Vaermina]

Once again, feels like Brother Eye is being ignored. The SI is well aware of the comics storyline where Batman builds the AI, and then the AI goes crazy/evil and starts trying to kill everyone. Yet everyone talks about Batman and never about this AI, which can act independently and might have its own plans and goals.

Click to shrink...

Of course not, if they didn't ignore the AI how would be surprised when they finally talk Batman around and Brother Eye continues on with Batman's plan without him.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Of course not, if they didn't ignore the AI how would be surprised when they finally talk Batman around and Brother Eye continues on with Batman's plan without him.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, this version of Brother Eye hasn't given any indications of being sentient yet. In continuities where it goes rogue, it's usually because Batman gave it the capacity for independent thought, so as long as Batman doesn't do that here, things should be okay.

 

[Darko]

i thought that was the Renegade timeline? here in Paragon it left with the New God teens that crashed the mountain. i could be, and probably am, wrong.

also i'd like more information on this whole Batman/New God thing.

Click to shrink...

The Forever People didn't crash the Mountain in the Paragon timeline.

Because Paul was merged with the Ophidian they stayed away and were captured by Desaad.

 

[Mr Zoat]

21st July 2013
12:59 GMT

"Paul." Adam Blake smiles as he shakes my right hand. "I wasn't sure that you'd be coming back."

I frown mildly. "You weren't? I thought.. you were always sure about things."

"Not always." He steps back and gestures towards the interior of the Tamaran royal palace. I nod and follow him inside. "Between my telepathy, telekinesis and… Reasoning, I can usually tell how people will respond to things. But between your resistance to telepathy and the influence of the Ophidian, as well as the fact that I don't know you particularly well, it's more difficult."

"Are you in good health? No lingering effects from your imprisonment?"

"Several, but don't worry. Between the technology of the Crown Imperium and my knowledge of my physiology, it wasn't anything that we couldn't fix."

"Since your abilities are a natural part of your body… A stem cell solution would fix it, wouldn't it?"

He smiles. "I forget how far human science has advanced since I left Earth. But it wasn't quite that simple. The parts of my brain affected are the centres of my brain responsible for my telekinesis. And due to the damage, other parts of my brain had started adapting to the change in load stress. It was a fascinating problem."

"Phantom limb syndrome, except the limb is your brain."

"More like another limb. So what brings you back? Is there a problem on Earth?"

I… Hesitate, and he looks at me with an expression of concern.

"A big problem?"

"Have you ever heard of the Anti-Life?"

He nods. "Komand'r shared her ring's database while she was trying to seduce me. It sounds implausible, but I haven't investigated it for myself."

"Oh, it exists. Six months ago, Earth got hit by a mass broadcast. It was essentially weaponised clinical depression with a touch of mind control."

He blinks. "How long did it last?"

"About a month. We haven't quite had to rebuild civilisation from scratch, but… It's basically just a few dozen superheroes and quite a lot of gold currency keeping a lot of places functioning."

"Do you want my help?"

"Can Vega spare you?"

He wiggles his right hand dismissively. "I completed my reconstruction plan before we bombarded the psion world. I'm here to maintain morale and support King Myand'r more than anything practical."

"Not too bored, I hope?"

He considers the idea, then shrugs. "I've… Grown accustomed to slow periods. When I was younger, something like this would drive me up the wall. Now, I honestly find it a bit of a relief."

"I can give you almost complete data on Earth's logistics systems, industries and political structures. It's all a bit much for me, but Batman and Mister Atom have been going over it since we got rid of the Anti-Life."

"Who is this 'Mister Atom'?"

"An artificial intelligence in a robotic body. Very strong, very tough, very intelligent. Feeds on radiation. He's good at handling large quantities of data. Not so good with people, but he's willing to take advice."

"If they've managed the Earth's economy for five months, why are you asking for my help now?"

"Because I'm concerned about Batman's methods, and what they suggest about how his character is changing for the worse. I can't see a better alternative, but I know that you're a lot more intelligent than I am, so… If you can't see a better way, then I can take that as read and move on to damage mitigation."

"His methods.. being centralization of power in his hands, legislative change to keep it there, the creation of a private army answerable to him and… His own mind control system possibly derived from the Anti-Life?"

"From the Anti-Life broadcasters, yes. We're reasonably sure that he doesn't have access to an Anti-Life fragment. They're… Not subtle. And what we did to get rid of it should be flawless."

"And the other points?" I nod. "Has his behavior changed since the Anti-Life broadcast happened?"

"I'm.. not sure exactly when, but he became significantly friendlier and nicer. And.. I needed someone to use a yellow power ring, so I forcibly altered his mind." Adam's face hardens. "I know, I'm not proud of myself, but it was the best way I could see to remove the Anti-Life from Earth. Our civilisation was dying, and I.. thought I could undo it afterwards."

"And you couldn't?"

I shake my head. "I thought I did. He seemed alright. Angry with me, sure, but basically himself. And then… He started changing. I don't know it's because of me, but I'm the most obvious cause. I'll include a full report in the data."

He.. nods, his expression softening slightly. I suppose that as a telepath in a world of non-telepaths, he'd.. probably have been tempted to give people a bit of a mental nudge now and again. Particularly when they all seemed too slow to grasp ideas that he found simple. The fact that there's no record of him doing so indicates the strength of his morals… On the other hand, I imagine that the psions would have preferred it to what he did to them. And I don't think he ever ran into a situation like the Anti-Life.

"And… Thank you. I don't like having to ask people to help clear up my messes, but there are-."

"The Earth is at stake. And that's more important than pride or shame." I nod. "That's… Almost surprisingly human of you."

"No it isn't. I desire things more strongly than momentary ego-gratification. All the work I put into Earth-. I'm not having it wasted because an evil god wanted to study what happened when he treads on us. My guilt doesn't matter. My goal matters."

"Still surprisingly human. Will you wait while I perform an initial analysis, or do you need to return to Earth?"

"I.. can probably wait. I'm not much of an investigator, and I won't really know what the next step is until you give me your opinion."

He regards me curiously. "That's interesting. I've seen how both Komand'r and Koriand'r behave when they channel the orange light. How it changes them. Less in Komand'r case, but there's a noticeable shift in how both of them prioritise things."

"I'm enlightened. I'm at one with my desires. If you want to take a closer look, I can take a moment to undo my anti-telepathy defences. But I'll warn you, it's a bit… Odd."

"Is it dangerous?"

"Only if your intent is hostile. My friend M'gann's communicated with me telepathically hundreds of times."

"I think I'll take you up on that, just not right now."

I nod. "And I noticed that about Koriand'r too. I think she'd be better suited to a blue ring, but I don't.. have any spare."

"I thought you gave Alan Scott-."

"Yes, but the guy who made it won't make another one unless I kill Lantern Sinestro, and I can't.. do that…" Huh. "Alright, I don't have a major philosophical reason not to do that any longer, but I do have practical ones. There's a Guardian who knows how to make them, but I'm trying not to get him into trouble." He nods. "Alright, if you show me your office I'll stick the files onto your computer, then clear off-. Unless you've got something you'd like me to do here?"

"Because you'd rather repay me right away rather than owe me."

"Partially. Not because I think you'd ask for anything particularly outrageous-."

He smiles. "You just don't like the feeling of an unfulfilled obligation. I understand. Honestly, I'm not sure there's any singular task that requires someone as powerful as you, but… The southern continent was deliberately infected with engineered diseases and vermin. The princesses and I have taken a look, but it might be helpful if you checked our work."

I clench my right fist, calling up their reports… I nod.

"Shouldn't be a problem. I'll head there next."

 

[Darko]

they all seemed to slow

Click to shrink...

"too slow"

pride of shame.

Click to shrink...

"pride or"

you wait why I perform an

Click to shrink...

"while I"

 

[Cool10007]

Take your bets, folks - is Paul going to be normal, or is he about to uncover something weird and dangerous that will distract him for a while?

 

[Ngamer11]

He regards me curiously. "That's interesting. I've seen how both Komand'r and Korinad'r behave when they channel the orange light. How it changes them. Less in Komand'r case, but there's a noticeable shift in how both of them prioritise things."

Click to shrink...

That should say 'Koriand'r'.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

21st July 2013
12:59 GMT

"Paul." Adam Blake smiles as he shakes my right hand. "I wasn't sure that you'd be coming back."

I frown mildly. "You weren't? I thought.. you were always sure about things."

Click to shrink...

Well, given that one of the last times he was here, he was pissed off because they burnt the Psion homeworld to the mantle, I can see locals believing he'd washed his hands of the place and left it to the Princesses.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Not always." He steps back and gestures towards the interior of the Tamaran royal palace. I nod and follow him inside. "Between my telepathy, telekinesis and… Reasoning, I can usually tell how people will respond to things. But between your resistance to telepathy and the influence of the Ophidian, as well as the fact that I don't know you particularly well, it's more difficult."

Click to shrink...

The benefit of most minds being open books to his level of telepathy, of course. Massive bonus to social management skills.

"Are you in good health? No lingering effects from your imprisonment?"

"Several, but don't worry. Between the technology of the Crown Imperium and my knowledge of my physiology, it wasn't anything that we couldn't fix."

"Since your abilities are a natural part of your body… A stem cell solution would fix it, wouldn't it?"

Click to shrink...

Eh, the crown Imperium probably has more advanced methods of stem-cell treatments than Earth does.

He smiles. "I forget how far human science has advanced since I left Earth. But it wasn't quite that simple. The parts of my brain affected are the centres of my brain responsible for my telekinesis. And due to the damage, other parts of my brain had started adapting to the change in load stress. It was a fascinating problem."

Click to shrink...

Like someone adjusting their muscles to a shift in fitness. Learning to use them in new ways, basically.

"Phantom limb syndrome, except the limb is your brain."

"More like another limb. So what brings you back? Is there a problem on Earth?"

Click to shrink...

I remember reading of sci-fi stories where telekinetics visualise their ability as additional hands that can go anywhere. It's an apt analogy.

I… Hesitate, and he looks at me with an expression of concern.

"A big problem?"

"Have you ever heard of the Anti-Life?"

Click to shrink...

A reasonable question, as Apokalips' sphere if influence is a long way from Vega.

He nods. "Komand'r shared her ring's database while she was trying to seduce me. It sounds implausible, but I haven't investigated it for myself."

"Oh, it exists. Six months ago, Earth got hit by a mass broadcast. It was essentially weaponised clinical depression with a touch of mind control."

Click to shrink...

And that wasn't even close to the full equation, of course. Just one or two fragments of it...

He blinks. "How long did it last?"

"About a month. We haven't quite had to rebuild civilisation from scratch, but… It's basically just a few dozen superheroes and quite a lot of gold currency keeping a lot of places functioning."

Click to shrink...

A quick summary of it all, and not inaccurate.

"Do you want my help?"

"Can Vega spare you?"

Click to shrink...

Especially if there's any chance of Comet being affected by anything lingering on Earth.

He wiggles his right hand dismissively. "I completed my reconstruction plan before we bombarded the psion world. I'm here to maintain morale and support King Myand'r more than anything practical."

"Not too bored, I hope?"

Click to shrink...

Heh. He certainly works quickly when he's motivated.

He considers the idea, then shrugs. "I've… Grown accustomed to slow periods. When I was younger, something like this would drive me up the wall. Now, I honestly find it a bit of a relief."

"I can give you almost complete data on Earth's logistics systems, industries and political structures. It's all a bit much for me, but Batman and Mister Atom have been going over it since we got rid of the Anti-Life."

Click to shrink...

His advanced mind should be able to analyse it all and find weaknesses and problems, hopefully. One of the reasons OL is here.

"Who is this 'Mister Atom'?"

"An artificial intelligence in a robotic body. Very strong, very tough, very intelligent. Feeds on radiation. He's good at handling large quantities of data. Not so good with people, but he's willing to take advice."

Click to shrink...

Using that advice, that depends on how well it advances his goals. Fortunately, he's been playing nice so far.

"If they've managed the Earth's economy for five months, why are you asking for my help now?"

"Because I'm concerned about Batman's methods, and what they suggest about how his character is changing for the worse. I can't see a better alternative, but I know that you're a lot more intelligent than I am, so… If you can't see a better way, then I can take that as read and move on to damage mitigation."

Click to shrink...

Certainly, it's inevitable one way or another, the way things are going. The system cannot hold, and a collapse is coming sooner or later, no matter how they try to patch it with things like the GPA.

"His methods.. being centralization of power in his hands, legislative changed to keep it there, the creation of a private army answerable to him and… His own mind control system possibly derived from the Anti-Life?"

"From the Anti-Life broadcasters, yes. We're reasonably sure that he doesn't have access to an Anti-Life fragment. They're… Not subtle. And what we did to get rid of it should be flawless."

Click to shrink...

Very perceptive of him. Flashing back to certain early- and mid-twentieth century personages, I bet.

"And the other points?" I nod. "Has his behavior changing since the Anti-Life broadcast happened?"

"I'm.. not sure exactly when, but he became significantly friendlier and nicer. And.. I needed someone to use a yellow power ring, so I forcibly altered his mind." Adam's face hardens. "I know, I'm not proud of myself, but it was the best way I could see to remove the Anti-Life from Earth. Our civilisation was dying, and I.. thought I could undo it afterwards."

Click to shrink...

None of the other options were better. Most of them were much worse.

"And you couldn't?"

I shake my head. "I thought I did. He seemed alright. Angry with me, sure, but basically himself. And then… He started changing. I don't know it's because of me, but I'm the most obvious cause. I'll include a full report in the data."

Click to shrink...

It doesn't help that OL has been so busy he hasn't been able to see the gradual change for himself, merely snippets as time went on.

He.. nods, his expression softening slightly. I suppose that as a telepath in a world of non-telepaths, he'd.. probably have been tempted to give people a bit of a mental nudge now and again. Particularly when they all seemed to slow to grasp ideas that he found simple. The fact that there's no record of him doing so indicates the strength of his morals… On the other hand, I imagine that the psions would have preferred it to what he did to them. And I don't think he ever ran into a situation like the Anti-Life.

Click to shrink...

I know most of us readers would happily be 'nudging' people if we had that kind of power. Fortunate that his morality was as evolved as his mind.

"And… Thank you. I don't like having to ask people to help clear up my messes, but there are-."

"The Earth is at stake. And that's more important than pride of shame." I nod. "That's… Almost surprisingly human of you."

Click to shrink...

Amusing, given how inhuman OL can seem at times due to his Enlightenment,

"No it isn't. I desire things more strongly than momentary ego-gratification. All the work I put into Earth-. I'm not having it wasted because an evil god wanted to study what happened when he treads on us. My guilt doesn't matter. My goal matters."

"Still surprisingly human. Will you wait why I perform an initial analysis, or do you need to return to Earth?"

Click to shrink...

After all, he's claimed Earth as his, and what an Orange Lantern claims, he keeps well.

"I.. can probably wait. I'm not much of an investigator, and I won't really know what the next step is until you give me your opinion."

He regards me curiously. "That's interesting. I've seen how both Komand'r and Korinad'r behave when they channel the orange light. How it changes them. Less in Komand'r case, but there's a noticeable shift in how both of them prioritise things."

Click to shrink...

Well, for one thing, they have different mentalities to humans. Tamanareans feel things intensely in the moment, but the feeling fades quickly, where humans dwell on it, let it linger...

"I'm enlightened. I'm at one with my desires. If you want to take a closer look, I can take a moment to undo my anti-telepathy defences. But I'll warn you, it's a bit… Odd."

"Is it dangerous?"

Click to shrink...

Well, if you don't mind feeling the Ophidian peering at you over his shoulder, I guess...

"Only if your intent is hostile. My friend M'gann's communicated with me telepathically hundreds of times."

"I think I'll take you up on that, just not right now."

Click to shrink...

Probably best to let it wait until neither of you are needed.

I nod. "And I noticed that about Koriand'r too. I think she'd be better suited to a blue ring, but I don't.. have any spare."

"I thought you gave Alan Scott-."

Click to shrink...

That was technically a Lantern with a firmware update for the Ring. The underlying technology is the same regardless of the focused Spectrum energy.

"Yes, but the guy who made it won't make another one unless I kill Lantern Sinestro, and I can't.. do that…" Huh. "Alright, I don't have a major philosophical reason not to do that any longer, but I do have practical ones. There's a Guardian who knows how to make them, but I'm trying not to get him into trouble." He nods. "Alright, if you show me your office I'll stick the files onto your computer, then clear off-. Unless you've got something you'd like me to do here?"

Click to shrink...

Another distraction to keep his mind off where he might have fouled up, eh?

"Because you'd rather repay me right away rather than owe me."

"Partially. Not because I think you'd ask for anything particularly outrageous-."

Click to shrink...

And there's no telling what may happen in the near future.

He smiles. "You just don't like the feeling of an unfulfilled obligation. I understand. Honestly, I'm not sure there's any singular task that requires someone as powerful as you, but… The southern continent was deliberately infected with engineered diseases and vermin. The princesses and I have taken a look, but it might be helpful if you checked our work."

Click to shrink...

Ah, something relatively simple on the surface.

I clench my right fist, calling up their reports… I nod

"Shouldn't be a problem. I'll head there next."

Click to shrink...

Let's hope it doesn't get away from him.

And so Adam Blake, the possible next evolution level of humanity, is on the case. I doubt his super-IQ is going to pick anything noteworthy out of the data, but perhaps sharing it with other local groups might lend new eyes to spot irregularities. Meanwhile, OL gets to focus on a simpler issue while people smarter than him work on his problems.

 

[BlackCoat13]

I clench my right fist, calling up their reports… I nod

Click to shrink...

nod.

 

[Vaermina]

To be fair, this version of Brother Eye hasn't given any indications of being sentient yet. In continuities where it goes rogue, it's usually because Batman gave it the capacity for independent thought, so as long as Batman doesn't do that here, things should be okay.

Click to shrink...

Brother Eye always goes rogue.

 

[Duke Long]

"His methods.. being centralization of power in his hands, legislative changed to keep it there, the creation of a private army answerable to him and… His own mind control system possibly derived from the Anti-Life?"

Click to shrink...

'changes'?
Pretty cool that he figures all that out without seeing the data.

"And the other points?" I nod. "Has his behavior changing since the Anti-Life broadcast happened?"

Click to shrink...

'changed'?

 

[Darko]

Brother Eye always goes rogue.

Click to shrink...

No, it doesn't.

Fir example in the Brave and the Bold cartoon it just empowered Omac but didn't go rogue.

 

[Ngamer11]

No, it doesn't.

Fir example in the Brave and the Bold cartoon it just empowered Omac but didn't go rogue.

Click to shrink...

That's because Batman didn't create Brother Eye in that continuity. Unfortunately, that is the case in this one.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"too slow"
"pride or"
"while I"

Click to shrink...

That should say 'Koriand'r'.

Click to shrink...

'changes'?
'changed'?

Click to shrink...

nod.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[thebishop8]

Now that Paul is visiting Vega, I wonder if Amalak is going to bug him about Zod.

 

[Sabivar]

Forgive me if I missed something, but didn't Paul already persuade Captain Comet to come back to Earth from Tamaran, by offering to match-make for him and then setting him up with Hera? I seem to remember Hera being very amused by the attempt, but then actually getting along with Captain Comet, at least for more dates. I don't remember him ever going back to Tamaran, but it's weird that they don't even mention that here.

 

[Ngamer11]

Forgive me if I missed something, but didn't Paul already persuade Captain Comet to come back to Earth from Tamaran, by offering to match-make for him and then setting him up with Hera? I seem to remember Hera being very amused by the attempt, but then actually getting along with Captain Comet, at least for more dates. I don't remember him ever going back to Tamaran, but it's weird that they don't even mention that here.

Click to shrink...

I'm guessing they dated but it didn't work out. Plus, Tamaran is more Captain Comet's home now than Earth.