With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[CrazyNoVa]

The Purge.

Firstly, he killed every supervillain in Brockton Bay.
Secondly, he reviewed all the information he gathered about the world.
Thirdly, he announced that he would purge a city of supervillains each week. The city would be notified, then every supervillain would have a week to hand themselves in or leave. At the end of the week, he would enter and kill any who had not done so.
Fourth, the Protectorate would try to stop him. At that point, he would publically question why they were putting more effort into stopping him doing their job than they were into doing their jobs.
Fifth... Probably an Endbringer? The Thundercats and Mumm-Rana would also volunteer.
No idea after that.

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Damn, Lord Protector Paul really gets shit done! He's like a one-man, more competent and less stupid version of The Elite!

No. I can't really think of a reason why they'd speak again, but seeing the impact he had on the country would make her a good deal more vicious.

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Well, considering how useful and versatile Skitter's powers are, and the fact that she's a lot more open to using lethal force than most heroes of her world, I'd figured that Lord Protector would want to make a super-team of supervillain exterminators and recruit Skitter in it. Sure, Lord Protector is very competent at exterminating villains by himself, but hunting monsters with friends is always more fun than hunting monsters alone. Also, Lord Protector seems kind of lonely and could use a friend. And when he has the power of friendship, he can use it to hunt down and exterminate all the supervillains.

HURRAY FOR MASS MURDER FUELED BY THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

 

[Darko]

So, it looks like sleez's mind control is of the lose time type, but the porn stars presumably remembered their jobs, so were they actually controlled

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Yes, they were mind controlled.

It may not have been as severe as it was with Kid Flash and Artemis, but he still influenced their minds without their knowledge or consent.

And if they were, way I see it, as long as he worked for his customers rather than actually recruiting them his work could be seen as even beneficent, improving the mental health of people who otherwise would have gotten wrecked by the realities of their job. It might even have been covered by his contracts or whatever

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Pretty sure it's illegal to use mind control to get people to work for you or have them stay and continue to work for you.

Like the way that slipping someone a drug without their knowledge or consent is.

Well, considering how useful and versatile Skitter's powers are, and the fact that she's a lot more open to using lethal force than most heroes of her world, I'd figured that Lord Protector would want to make a super-team of supervillain exterminators and recruit Skitter in it. Sure, Lord Protector is very competent at exterminating villains by himself, but hunting monsters with friends is always more fun than hunting monsters alone. Also, Lord Protector seems kind of lonely and could use a friend. And when he has the power of friendship, he can use it to hunt down and exterminate all the supervillains.

HURRAY FOR MASS MURDER FUELED BY THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP

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He doesn't seem like the type that's interested in friendship.

Plus he has a wife and kids.

Also, while Taylor does have a versatile and impressive power, Lord Protector may not recruit her due to a number of reasons ranging from her young age, to him potentially just not finding her power to be that impressive and her not being experienced enough to actually meaningfully help him.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Plus he has a wife and kids.

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What does that have to do with anything? I didn't say he had to get into a relationship with her.

Also, while Taylor does have a versatile and impressive power, Lord Protector may not recruit her due to a number of reasons ranging from her young age, to him potentially just not finding her power to be that impressive and her not being experienced enough to actually meaningfully help him.

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True, but in all fairness, that has never stopped other versions of Paul from recruiting underage superpowered allies before.

 

[Ardy]

The Purge.

Firstly, he killed every supervillain in Brockton Bay.
Secondly, he reviewed all the information he gathered about the world.
Thirdly, he announced that he would purge a city of supervillains each week. The city would be notified, then every supervillain would have a week to hand themselves in or leave. At the end of the week, he would enter and kill any who had not done so.
Fourth, the Protectorate would try to stop him. At that point, he would publically question why they were putting more effort into stopping him doing their job than they were into doing their jobs.
Fifth... Probably an Endbringer? The Thundercats and Mumm-Rana would also volunteer.
No idea after that.

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Must, resist, urge, to start worm derail on how that won't actually work…

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Must, resist, urge, to start worm derail on how that won't actually work…

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Why not? It seemed to work well so far.

 

[Darko]

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't say he had to get into a relationship with her.

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I meant that he doesn't seem to be all that interested in socializing with people and that the only close personal relationship he has is with his wife and kids, so he may focus on that over a friendship.

 

[Ardy]

Why not? It seemed to work well so far.

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Then the villains start wrecking cities because they no longer have a reason to hold back. Purity killed more people (and wrecked more of a city on a tight budget) in an hour than in her entire decade+ long career as a neo-nazi hit-woman because she felt she was in a corner and was no longer going to hold back. Imagine that, but every villain in the US. That's why the protectorate doesn't go all out. WoG if every villain got a kill order the heroes/government would win, there just wouldn't be a country left afterwards. And it's not like that's the end of it, powers keep appearing, and unless you somehow end human trauma you're going to have super-powered people lashing out at the world in their trigger event, which means they'll freak out because, hey, you just killed 3 people and that means you're a supervillain, and thus have a death sentence. No reason to hold back now since you're going to be killed because you lashed out with powers you can't really control after being molested and laughed at by the police or whatever your trigger was.

Hell, I'm not even going to START on how that's going to effect the average civilian, how they will start to view capes as minorities (and we all know how every human civilization ever has treated minorities, especially dangerous ones) and how that will effect heroes getting support or not, or whether you get riots and assassinations against capes where those work, leading to horrific retaliation by capes like Imp who are immune to assassination and riots and can murder everyone in a city by herself without being stopped. Unless you want to start carpet bombinb the city and hope that somehow fixes the problem you literally can't perceive.

This is probably one of the most common fanon tropes out there, and it's a little sad to see Zoat embrace it.

edit: God, even think about people like Bitch, who was accused of murder but was fucked by the system so hard that she would rather run that try and fight the charge in court. Is this teenage girl who hasn't killed anyone getting a death sentence too? Or Tattletale, who was a freaking pickpocket and shoplifter before Coil. Pretty sure Lord Protector can't tell that this one villain isn't operating as a BIG supervillain of her own volition, rather than a petty thief, so that's another 'pickpocket giving a death sentence' fuck up. Hell, you're a supervillain in the CUI if you are not part of their brainwashed government death squad/Yangban, how is he gonna tell the fleeing pacifists from the crime lords? Really, it's just not worth it to fuck around in Worm like this.

Tl;dr Worm is not DC, actions have consequences

 

[Steelplaza]

And if they were, way I see it, as long as he worked for his customers rather than actually recruiting them his work could be seen as even beneficent, improving the mental health of people who otherwise would have gotten wrecked by the realities of their job. It might even have been covered by his contracts or whatever.

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I mean, a hypothetical version of Sleez could have made some arguments along those lines and tried to talk himself out of trouble if that's what he was interested in doing. Maybe he would even have succeeded, or at least merely gotten himself kicked off the planet without further punishment. Instead he reacted to Kid Flash and Artemis showing up by immediately mind controlling them and then using them to try and kill OL.

Horse has pretty much escaped the barn as far as making, "I'm not such a bad guy really" arguments.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Then the villains start wrecking cities because they no longer have a reason to hold back. Purity killed more people (and wrecked more of a city on a tight budget) in an hour than in her entire decade+ long career as a neo-nazi hit-woman because she felt she was in a corner and was no longer going to hold back. Imagine that, but every villain in the US. That's why the protectorate doesn't go all out. WoG if every villain got a kill order the heroes/government would win, there just wouldn't be a country left afterwards. And it's not like that's the end of it, powers keep appearing, and unless you somehow end human trauma you're going to have super-powered people lashing out at the world in their trigger event, which means they'll freak out because, hey, you just killed 3 people and that means you're a supervillain, and thus have a death sentence. No reason to hold back now since you're going to be killed because you lashed out with powers you can't really control after being molested and laughed at by the police or whatever your trigger was.

Hell, I'm not even going to START on how that's going to effect the average civilian, how they will start to view capes as minorities (and we all know how every human civilization ever has treated minorities, especially dangerous ones) and how that will effect heroes getting support or not, or whether you get riots and assassinations against capes where those work, leading to horrific retaliation by capes like Imp who are immune to assassination and riots and can murder everyone in a city by herself without being stopped. Unless you want to start carpet bombing the city and hope that somehow fixes the problem you literally can't perceive.

This is probably one of the most common fanon tropes out there, and it's a little sad to see Zoat embrace it.

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You remember that he was perfectly happy to talk to Nilborg? Lord Protector isn't trying to save people per se. He's trying to make sure that nothing from Earth Bet comes through the portal. If Zion goes critical and destroys all alternate Earths within his jamming range then that's only a problem if he's on the wrong side of the portal.

But as for an uprising... So? Most capes die to gunfire. In Brockton Bay I think it's just Assault and Battery who can't be killed like that. If supervillains aren't holding back, why is everyone else? And for those that can't a Yellow Lantern with FTL and pinpoint accuracy can kill them pretty darn fast. It'll hurt in the short term, but once it's done the situation is somewhat more manageable. That's if it happens. America has a lot of cities and supervillains can do maths and are self-absorbed. If Lord Protector went down the east coast I doubt that supervillains in, say, Seattle, are going to care.

Frankly, capes are destructive and violent, with brains that were root kitted by a hostile alien the moment they got their powers.

 

[Ardy]

You remember that he was perfectly happy to talk to Nilborg? Lord Protector isn't trying to save people per se. He's trying to make sure that nothing from Earth Bet comes through the portal. If Zion goes critical and destroys all alternate Earths within his jamming range then that's only a problem if he's on the wrong side of the portal.

But as for an uprising... So? Most capes die to gunfire. In Brockton Bay I think it's just Assault and Battery who can't be killed like that. If supervillains aren't holding back, why is everyone else? And for those that can't a Yellow Lantern with FTL and pinpoint accuracy can kill them pretty darn fast. It'll hurt in the short term, but once it's done the situation is somewhat more manageable. That's if it happens. America has a lot of cities and supervillains can do maths and are self-absorbed. If Lord Protector went down the east coast I doubt that supervillains in, say, Seattle, are going to care.

Frankly, capes are destructive and violent, with brains that were root kitted by a hostile alien the moment they got their powers.

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capes aren't idiots, if he starts mass killing villains they're all going to go off their rockers because it's on the fucking news and their own precogs are freaking out. Unless yellow ring beats the trillions of continent size self-aware super computers/machines, lord protector is going to die or worse when, say, Valefore looks at him and orders him to kill himself. It takes a single cape without good records (or a new trigger specially given by a shard to kill the asshole ruining their experiment) to fuck him over. This isn't anti life where things are clear, this is complex and convoluted and intelligent.

If most capes die to gunfire, then the ones that won't (like Imp, who I mentioned above) retaliate. Capes will keep appearing and keep killing, lord protector can't do shit about that. If parahuman are persecuted, then congrats, human civilization on Bet ends. Cauldron spent a lot of effort to see if a system of government could survive normal parahumans without their intervention, and found it couldn't. Civilization collapses due to the mass slaughter of and by parahumans, and everyone dies.

Congrats, you've successfully killed off more people on Bet than Scion was going to.

Not to mention capes like Kaiser, who have lots of followers who will defend him and wreck wherever they are in his name. Because capes aren't idiots.

I've followed you across 3 sites Zoat, you're not pulling a solution to this one out of your ass unless Vaermina is correct and you just change the setting so you can't be wrong.

Hell, the fact that you think capes heads are fucked with to be more violent or whatever as a rule means you really don't know what you're talking about. Unless it's Mouse Protector or Damsel or Distress, power's don't make capes violent, the horrific things that happened to them do.

 

[Duke Long]

You remember that he was perfectly happy to talk to Nilborg? Lord Protector isn't trying to save people per se. He's trying to make sure that nothing from Earth Bet comes through the portal. If Zion goes critical and destroys all alternate Earths within his jamming range then that's only a problem if he's on the wrong side of the portal.

But as for an uprising... So? Most capes die to gunfire. In Brockton Bay I think it's just Assault and Battery who can't be killed like that. If supervillains aren't holding back, why is everyone else? And for those that can't a Yellow Lantern with FTL and pinpoint accuracy can kill them pretty darn fast. It'll hurt in the short term, but once it's done the situation is somewhat more manageable. That's if it happens. America has a lot of cities and supervillains can do maths and are self-absorbed. If Lord Protector went down the east coast I doubt that supervillains in, say, Seattle, are going to care.

Frankly, capes are destructive and violent, with brains that were root kitted by a hostile alien the moment they got their powers.

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Don't Cauldron want to maximise parahuman population? I feel like they would send someone over to tell him to knock it off.

I think there are more bulletproof parahumans than that in Brockton Bay. If you allow ones that are only mostly bulletproof/vulnerable to surprise attack, there are also some in New Wave, Hookwolf, Fenja, Menja, maybe some more that aren't coming to mind right now. It's true that most parahumans can be killed by normal people with guns, but the percentage that can't (except by surprise attack or good luck) is reasonably large.

Pressing villains into a corner does seem a bit risky when there are some parahumans who can wipe out a city but don't because they have no reason to (Miss Militia for example). If they decide to do a suicide attack because they feel the situation is hopeless it could cause a lot of deaths.

 

[Ngamer11]

Don't Cauldron want to maximise parahuman population? I feel like they would send someone over to tell him to knock it off.

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They wouldn't be in a position to do that because Lord Protector already killed Legend and wrecked their base going to Earth Bet.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Then the villains start wrecking cities because they no longer have a reason to hold back. Purity killed more people (and wrecked more of a city on a tight budget) in an hour than in her entire decade+ long career as a neo-nazi hit-woman because she felt she was in a corner and was no longer going to hold back. Imagine that, but every villain in the US. That's why the protectorate doesn't go all out. WoG if every villain got a kill order the heroes/government would win, there just wouldn't be a country left afterwards. And it's not like that's the end of it, powers keep appearing, and unless you somehow end human trauma you're going to have super-powered people lashing out at the world in their trigger event, which means they'll freak out because, hey, you just killed 3 people and that means you're a supervillain, and thus have a death sentence.

Click to shrink...

They were always going to kill people anyway, so like Zoat said, in the short term there will be a lot of killing, but it will get better in time. Besides, sure, powers keep popping up, but there's nothing that guarantees that all of them will become supervillains. If Lord Protector sticks to just exterminating villains, then the heroic or neutral supers will eventually outnumber the more villainous ones. The key here is to just keep killing them faster than they can respawn. Which, for an enlightened lantern, is child's play.

capes aren't idiots, if he starts mass killing villains they're all going to go off their rockers because it's on the fucking news and their own precogs are freaking out. Unless yellow ring beats the trillions of continent size self-aware super computers/machines, lord protector is going to die or worse when, say, Valefore looks at him and orders him to kill himself.

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Are you seriously trying to say that a mere planetary super-computer is more advanced than a power ring? Because I call bullcrap on that.

Also, aren't enlightened lanterns immune to, or at least super resistant to mind control? Plus, even if he isn't, Lord Protector probaby has a contingency or two in place to prevent himself from being controlled.

If most capes die to gunfire, then the ones that won't (like Imp, who I mentioned above) retaliate. Capes will keep appearing and keep killing, lord protector can't do shit about that. If parahuman are persecuted, then congrats, human civilization on Bet ends. Cauldron spent a lot of effort to see if a system of government could survive normal parahumans without their intervention, and found it couldn't. Civilization collapses due to the mass slaughter of and by parahumans, and everyone dies.

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Again, just keep killing them faster than they can respawn, and when the heroes outnumber the villains 100-to-1, the world will be a much better place. Which, again, is child's play for an enlightened lantern.

Don't Cauldron want to maximise parahuman population? I feel like they would send someone over to tell him to knock it off.

I think there are more bulletproof parahumans than that in Brockton Bay. If you allow ones that are only mostly bulletproof/vulnerable to surprise attack, there are also some in New Wave, Hookwolf, Fenja, Menja, maybe some more that aren't coming to mind right now. It's true that most parahumans can be killed by normal people with guns, but the percentage that can't (except by surprise attack or good luck) is reasonably large.

Pressing villains into a corner does seem a bit risky when there are some parahumans who can wipe out a city but don't because they have no reason to (Miss Militia for example). If they decide to do a suicide attack because they feel the situation is hopeless it could cause a lot of deaths.

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Unless Lord Protector snipes her from orbit before she has time to blink. Which should be easy for him to do, because we've seen other Pauls do similar things.

 

[Ardy]

They were always going to kill people anyway, so like Zoat said, in the short term there will be a lot of killing, but it will get better in time. Besides, sure, powers keep popping up, but there's nothing that guarantees that all of them will become supervillains. If Lord Protector sticks to just exterminating villains, then the heroic or neutral supers will eventually outnumber the more villainous ones. The key here is to just keep killing them faster than they can respawn. Which, for an enlightened lantern, is child's play.






Are you seriously trying to say that a mere planetary super-computer is more advanced than a power ring? Because I call bullcrap on that.

Also, aren't enlightened lanterns immune to, or at least super resistant to mind control? Plus, even if he isn't, Lord Protector probaby has a contingency or two in place to prevent himself from being controlled.



Again, just keep killing them faster than they can respawn, and when the heroes outnumber the villains 100-to-1, the world will be a much better place. Which, again, is child's play for an enlightened lantern.



Unless Lord Protector snipes her from orbit before she has time to blink. Which should be easy for him to do, because we've seen other Pauls do similar things.

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Too many crazy ideas to deal with right now, I'll answer these in detail tomorrow but short version is: no.

 

[Prince Charon]

Too many crazy ideas to deal with right now, I'll answer these in detail tomorrow but short version is: no.

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When you think about your response, please consider the idea that you may be assuming either a lower level of power for Lord Protector Paul, or a higher level of destructiveness and cohesiveness for villains in general on Earth Bet (as opposed to specific ones that might well be targeted first if they do all go crazy at once), or both, than the people you're arguing with are. A big problem on the internet is people arguing from different starting assumptions without realizing that they are.

 

[Ardy]

When you think about your response, please consider the idea that you may be assuming either a lower level of power for Lord Protector Paul, or a higher level of destructiveness and cohesiveness for villains in general on Earth Bet (as opposed to specific ones that might well be targeted first if they do all go crazy at once), or both, than the people you're arguing with are. A big problem on the internet is people arguing from different starting assumptions without realizing that they are.

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He announces, a week in advance, that's he's going to kill every single supervillain in a specific city, every week. It's not like he's being subtle about it

 

[Prince Charon]

He announces, a week in advance, that's he's going to kill every single supervillain in a specific city, every week. It's not like he's being subtle about it

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Yes. I know. That's not the point I was making, but apparently I'm also too tired to be clear (especially as I don't care about this as much as others seem to). Also, just checking, you do recall that he doesn't kill the ones that turn themselves in, right? That's pretty important, IMHO.

 

[Stsword]

They were always going to kill people anyway, so like Zoat said, in the short term there will be a lot of killing, but it will get better in time. Besides, sure, powers keep popping up, but there's nothing that guarantees that all of them will become supervillains. If Lord Protector sticks to just exterminating villains, then the heroic or neutral supers will eventually outnumber the more villainous ones. The key here is to just keep killing them faster than they can respawn. Which, for an enlightened lantern, is child's play.

snip, snip

Again, just keep killing them faster than they can respawn, and when the heroes outnumber the villains 100-to-1, the world will be a much better place. Which, again, is child's play for an enlightened lantern.

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You haven't read Worm. That's fine.

Point 1) Supervillains in Worm are just criminals with superpowers. Which means Lord Protector will be mass murdering people who include those who did nothing to warrant a death penalty because apparently he can't be bothered to be useful with his time like prioritizing targets that would actually be worthy of his attention like say dealing with the international Nazi supervillain organization or freeing the brainwashed victims who have been turned into terrorists by the like of Teacher, the Endbringer Simurgh, or Heartbreaker's sleeper agents.

Point 2) Villains naturally outnumber heroes because Trigger events require trauma. Trauma, you know, like Lord Protector's fearmongering mass murder campaign will cause, which will result in even more villains arising, so no, this is like how the Garou in Werewolf the Apocalypse fighting the spirit of entropy and hate with murder and homicidal rage.

 

[Mr Zoat]

3rd October 2010
08:59 GMT -5

"…be surprised exactly…" Alan looks a little awkward. "But you probably shouldn't have said it anyway."

I frown. "Shouldn't that be a bigger problem? I mean, cocaine is illegal."

"Ah…"

"Alan, if you want to admit something…" I look around the meeting room. "It's just the two of us here."

He looks confused. "I beg your-?" He blinks as realisation sets in. "Oh-. No, I've never used… That kind of thing. I got a shot of morphine when I broke my arm one time, and… I smoked a marijuana cigarette once. Back when it was still legal."

I wave my right hand dismissively. "Oh, of course."

"But weren't you supposed to be coming up with a plan for making what happened in Louisiana public, not actually making it public?"

I shrug. "I was just trying to give one man closure. Once I realised that he'd gone public with it I decided that the important thing was to control the narrative. To.. get ahead of things. And actually use one of my plans. I actually brought up the drug thing because neither Miss Willis or her audience are particularly highbrow and I could feel I was losing them. And because I didn't actually need to lie about it and no one really likes Washington."

"We've got five congressmen complaining about unsubstantiated allegations."

"I can substantiate them if they like. Or Diana and I can meet them, they can lay their hands on her lasso and state that they've never taken proscribed narcotics and I will happily bear witness to that. Honestly, the ideal thing would be if-"

The door opens and Batman and Diana walk through together.

"-we-"

Alan stands up, and after a momentary delay I do as well. I'm not sure if it's 'lady present' or 'officers present' but being polite can't hurt.

"-could make that an open challenge." I smile broadly. "Good morning, sirs!"

Diana and Batman share a glance as they walk around the table. Diana looks mildly amused, while Batman looks Batman. Then they sit down, so Alan and I do as well.

"Orange Lantern." Batman fixes me with a level gaze. "In future, you will clear all press interviews with either me or Diana."

"Certainly, sir. What would you like me to say if they approach me in the street?"

I think I hear a very faint sigh. "Orange Lantern, I'm not doing that. You understand perfectly well what I mean."

"Sir, I think I defused the potential fallout about lethal force pretty well, which from what I understood of your instructions to me was the thing you were most concerned about. If you're now implementing an absolute prohibition on me speaking to journalists, then clearly it is your view that my judgement isn't good enough." I spread my arms out to the side before allowing them to fall back onto the table. "And I'm fine with that. I haven't been doing this very long and may well have made a mistake. But a blanket ban leaves no room for judgement, so I have to know exactly what you mean."

"Very well. No scheduled interviews without prior discussion. If you are on-site at a crime scene with a member of the Justice League, direct all questions relating to the case to them. You may answer personal questions relating to yourself as you see fit."

I nod. "And if I'm at a crime scene without a member of the Justice League?"

"Refer questions about the case to the police. Avoid questions relating to anything political, including policing policy."

"Understood. I will of course comply. Though… You understand that any prohibition stops applying after eight months, right?"

"Yes."

I think Diana is trying not to smile. "Were you discussing how to moderate the fallout of your interview with Alan?"

"Yes. Firstly, it's one aggressively contentious radio host on a Gotham radio station. Not all that many people are going to hear it anyway."

Batman gives me a mild glower. "Nationwide radio networks are now syndicating her show, and she's been getting offers of employment from other stations."

"Oh." I frown. "I'd.. be surprised if she can maintain that level of engagement."

"That's beside the point. The point is that your comments have attracted a disproportionate degree of media attention."

I nod. "I'm afraid that my best idea for dealing with the issue involves utilising that attention."

"Explain."

I turn my head towards Diana. "Does your lasso work on congressional representatives?"

She nods slowly. "In my experience, yes."

"Then it seems simple. I agree to do further appearances on her program, and say that any Senator or Representative who wishes to be excluded can come on, put their hand on the lasso and proclaim their innocence. Alternately, I can begin a formal investigation into cocaine use in Washington and hand a file to the press."

Alan frowns. "I think that should go to the police, firstly."

"I certainly don't object to sending it to the police, but I don't think the evidence I gather would be admissible. But if I only have to convince the electorate, that wouldn't matter. And, of course, keeping attention on congressional narcotic consumption would most likely distract everyone from discussing the eminently sensible idea of executing mass murderers. It would also distract congress from legislating on the subject." I smile faintly. "Did you know that insider trading isn't a crime if you're an elected representative?"

"Yes." Batman looks disinterested. "I already have information on both corrupt financial practices and narcotic consumption amongst our elected representatives."

I… I mean, I'm not surprised that he has that. He's Batman. But I am a little surprised that he hasn't done anything about something like that. Unless it's.. supposed to be blackmail material? No, that doesn't seem likely.

"You look surprised. The simple fact is that compared to things that the League deals with, minor acts of personal corruption just aren't that important. Particularly considering the additional impediments politicians can create to League operation."

Hm. Unpleasant, but certainly true. On the other hand…

"Sir, you sent the Team to Bialya because they aren't Justice League members. I may not be on the team any longer, but I'm not a Justice League member either."

"The team was also intended to be covert. While my interpretation of the Justice League charter is legally correct, I doubt that would prevent our detractors complaining about the League operating by proxy outside of its remit."

For once, my expression mirrors his. "Some of them might also comment on the use of child soldiers, sir. Contrary to Security Council Resolution Twelve Sixty One."

That gets him hard looks from Diana and Alan. He settles for inclining his head very slightly. "Yes."

"But that's not my problem. I would suggest, since it's unlikely that you would want the reason why I'm taking orders from you to become public knowledge, that you simply say if asked that while Justice League members are participating in my training, ultimately you have no control over my actions? It would be a lot more credible than claiming that of team members due to the age difference and prior association."

He looks at Diana. Diana looks back at him.

"Have you considered this in detail?"

"Not yet sir, no. But I will have time to do so after Lantern Jordan's lesson today."

"Do so. I will consider your strategic utility once I have your report to review. Dismissed."

 

[Ngamer11]

Paul has at one point mentioned that he effectively does dirty jobs that the League can't and/or won't do. I'd be interested if Common Sense Paul does that in a more defined way.

 

[Mr Zoat]

capes aren't idiots, if he starts mass killing villains they're all going to go off their rockers because it's on the fucking news and their own precogs are freaking out. Unless yellow ring beats the trillions of continent size self-aware super computers/machines, lord protector is going to die or worse when, say, Valefore looks at him and orders him to kill himself. It takes a single cape without good records (or a new trigger specially given by a shard to kill the asshole ruining their experiment) to fuck him over. This isn't anti life where things are clear, this is complex and convoluted and intelligent.

Click to shrink...

Slaughterhouse Nine actively kill villains whenever they enter a city. There has never been any kind of villain coalition against them, except in that one city once they're spotted.

Powers usually don't care about particular hosts. As far as I'm aware, the only instance in canon of a power actively and intelligently helping is Jack Slash's power stopping Imp killing him. As far as they're concerned, one data source is as good as another. It's also worth noticing that only Caldron know that's how powers work. An outsider coming to Bet isn't going to find out about that from publically available data source.

If most capes die to gunfire, then the ones that won't (like Imp, who I mentioned above) retaliate. Capes will keep appearing and keep killing, lord protector can't do shit about that.

Click to shrink...

That's true. He can't. Without very specific information, a single Lantern can't change the system.

Mumm-Rana can. If you want an idea what she can do, consider this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668LbT60K6M
Yes, the writers and animators clearly didn't communicate between themselves on the difference between a galaxy and a star system, but even if we assume that the low end of the feat is accurate, Mumm-Ra destroyed a star system as part of the ritual, not as the result.

Without her, he could detect triggers and go full Imperium of Man. Even if he couldn't identify the reason why some people can trigger and others can't, he could simply kill everyone with powers. It would take most of his time, be extremely inefficient and result in a lot of good people being murdered, but it would be possible.

If parahuman are persecuted, then congrats, human civilization on Bet ends. Cauldron spent a lot of effort to see if a system of government could survive normal parahumans without their intervention, and found it couldn't. Civilization collapses due to the mass slaughter of and by parahumans, and everyone dies.

Congrats, you've successfully killed off more people on Bet than Scion was going to.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that's true. But unless Caldron tells him that, there's no way for him to know that.

Not to mention capes like Kaiser, who have lots of followers who will defend him and wreck wherever they are in his name. Because capes aren't idiots.

Click to shrink...

Yes, it's true that the Nazi gang would dislike that. The solution is: kill them too. They're Nazis. At this point, yes, there would be considerable collateral damage. It's been allowed to get so bad that it will require a civil war. It's still worth doing, and they certainly don't have the power to wreck the country.

I've followed you across 3 sites Zoat, you're not pulling a solution to this one out of your ass unless Vaermina is correct and you just change the setting so you can't be wrong.

Hell, the fact that you think capes heads are fucked with to be more violent or whatever as a rule means you really don't know what you're talking about. Unless it's Mouse Protector or Damsel or Distress, power's don't make capes violent, the horrific things that happened to them do.

Click to shrink...

No, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong here. See Leet or Panacea, whose powers actively sabotage them.

Edit: It occurred to me after writing this that Glory Girl's power warmed up to her in Ward and started actively helping her.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

3rd October 2010
08:59 GMT -5

"…be surprised exactly…" Alan looks a little awkward. "But you probably shouldn't have said it anyway."

I frown. "Shouldn't that be a bigger problem? I mean, cocaine is illegal."

Click to shrink...

Heh, fallout from the interview for CS!OL, eh? No doubt lots of politicians upset about the suggesting of wrongdoing. I expect the public will have their own opinions on the matter, and likely be more decisive come the next round of elections...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Ah…"

"Alan, if you want to admit something…" I look around the meeting room. "It's just the two of us here."

Click to shrink...

It wasn't that big during his peak era, was it? When did it really take off...

He looks confused. "I beg your-?" He blinks as realisation sets in. "Oh-. No, I've never used… That kind of thing. I got a shot of morphine when I broke my arm one time, and… I smoked a marijuana cigarette once. Back when it was still legal."

I wave my right hand dismissively. "Oh, of course."

"But weren't you supposed to be coming up with a plan for making what happened in Louisiana public, not actually making it public?"

Click to shrink...

How do you know that wasn't part of his plan? Albeit one a bit more off-the-cuff than some.

I shrug. "I was just trying to give one man closure. Once I realised that he'd gone public with it I decided that the important thing was to control the narrative. To.. get ahead of things. And actually use one of my plans. I actually brought up the drug thing because neither Miss Willis or her audience are particularly highbrow and I could feel I was losing them. And because I didn't actually need to lie about it and no one really likes Washington."

Click to shrink...

He has a point. On all points, really.

"We've got five congressmen complaining about unsubstantiated allegations."

"I can substantiate them if they like. Or Diana and I can meet them, they can lay their hands on her lasso and state that they've never taken proscribed narcotics and I will happily bear witness to that. Honestly, the ideal thing would be if-"

Click to shrink...

Oh, that hasn't got huge potential to backfire.

The door opens and Batman and Diana walk through together.

"-we-"

Click to shrink...

Ah, time to face the music.

Alan stands up, and after a momentary delay I do as well. I'm not sure if it's 'lady present' or 'officers present' but being polite can't hurt.

"-could make that an open challenge." I smile broadly. "Good morning, sirs!"

Click to shrink...

Old-fashioned politeness on Alan's part, for sure.

Diana and Batman share a glance as they walk around the table. Diana looks mildly amused, while Batman looks Batman. Then they sit down, so Alan and I do as well.

"Orange Lantern." Batman fixes me with a level gaze. "In future, you will clear all press interviews with either me or Diana."

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't realise the need for that earlier... Then again, CS!OL is a lot less public than the Paragon.

"Certainly, sir. What would you like me to say if they approach me in the street?"

I think I hear a very faint sigh. "Orange Lantern, I'm not doing that. You understand perfectly well what I mean."

Click to shrink...

There's a big difference between 'Don't talk to the press without checking first' and 'Don't talk to the press at all without permission.'

"Sir, I think I defused the potential fallout about lethal force pretty well, which from what I understood of your instructions to me was the thing you were most concerned about. If you're now implementing an absolute prohibition on me speaking to journalists, then clearly it is your view that my judgement isn't good enough." I spread my arms out to the side before allowing them to fall back onto the table. "And I'm fine with that. I haven't been doing this very long and may well have made a mistake. But a blanket ban leaves no room for judgement, so I have to know exactly what you mean."

Click to shrink...

And you know someone will practically ambush him sooner or later. It's inevitable, Orange Lanterns attract controversy like magnets attract iron shavings.

"Very well. No scheduled interviews without prior discussion. If you are on-site at a crime scene with a member of the Justice League, direct all questions relating to the case to them. You may answer personal questions relating to yourself as you see fit."

I nod. "And if I'm at a crime scene without a member of the Justice League?"

Click to shrink...

Or if they ask about something that isn't their current case or a personal matter? Never know what they'll drag out.

"Refer questions about the case to the police. Avoid questions relating to anything political, including policing policy."

"Understood. I will of course comply. Though… You understand that any prohibition stops applying after eight months, right?"

Click to shrink...

At which point he becomes a lot more troublesome for the League. Fortunately, he's not going to be on Earth for some time anyway at that point, if his plans are the same as Paragon's.

"Yes."

I think Diana is trying not to smile. "Were you discussing how to moderate the fallout of your interview with Alan?"

Click to shrink...

It would be helpful, Alan is familiar with how the press operates, having been a radio-man back in the day.

"Yes. Firstly, it's one aggressively contentious radio host on a Gotham radio station. Not all that many people are going to hear it anyway."

Batman gives me a mild glower. "Nationwide radio networks are now syndicating her show, and she's been getting offers of employment from other stations."

Click to shrink...

Also, she probably has internet radio, livestream and podcast versions available. Makes sense for a modern radio talk-show host.

"Oh." I frown. "I'd.. be surprised if she can maintain that level of engagement."

"That's beside the point. The point is that your comments have attracted a disproportionate degree of media attention."

Click to shrink...

Well, do you want them looking at CS!OL, or at the League's response to the Injustice League situation?

I nod. "I'm afraid that my best idea for dealing with the issue involves utilising that attention."

"Explain."

Click to shrink...

Out, proud and unapologetic? So to speak. I'd laugh if he ended up becoming something of a spokesperson for the League jsut by popular familiarity.

I turn my head towards Diana. "Does you lasso work on congressional representatives?"

She nods slowly. "In my experience, yes."

Click to shrink...

If she heard their discussion at the door, she might be guessing where he's going with this.

"Then it seems simple. I agree to do further appearances on her program, and say that any Senator or Representative who wishes to be excluded can come on, put their hand on the lasso and proclaim their innocence. Alternately, I can begin a formal investigation into cocaine use in Washington and hand a file to the press."

Click to shrink...

If nothing else, for some of those politicians, that would be golden for their reputation. If they thought could pass the test. Or hilarious when one thinks he can beat the 'divine coil of truthfulness' like it's a basic lie detector...

Alan frowns. "I think that should go to the police, firstly."

"I certainly don't object to sending it to the police, but I don't think the evidence I gather would be admissible. But if I only have to convince the electorate, that wouldn't matter. And, of course, keeping attention on congressional narcotic consumption would most likely distract everyone from discussing the eminently sensible idea of executing mass murderers. It would also distract congress from legislating on the subject." I smile faintly. "Did you know that insider trading isn't a crime if you're an elected representative?"

Click to shrink...

Oh, clever. Get everyone looking left while you sneak by on the right.

"Yes." Batman looks disinterested. "I already have information on both corrupt financial practices and narcotic consumption amongst our elected representatives."

I… I mean, I'm not surprised that he has that. He's Batman. But I am a little surprised that he hasn't done anything about something like that. Unless it's.. supposed to be blackmail material? No, that doesn't seem likely.

Click to shrink...

Or he feels it has the same issue of admissibility. Or might bring attention on places he doesn't want it.

"You look surprised. The simple fact is that compared to things that the League deals with, minor acts of personal corruption just aren't that important. Particularly considering the additional impediments politicians can create to League operation."

Hm. Unpleasant, but certainly true. On the other hand…

Click to shrink...

And Batman doesn't really focus on corporate crime stuff unless it's turned loud and dangerous.

"Sir, you sent the Team to Bialya because they aren't Justice League members. I may not be on the team any longer, but I'm not a Justice League member either."

"The team was also intended to be covert. While my interpretation of the Justice League charter is legally correct, I doubt that would prevent our detractors complaining about the League operating by proxy outside of its remit."

Click to shrink...

Perhaps the League needs a group of adult outsiders that can do the things the public group can't?

For once, my expression mirrors his. "Some of them might also comment on the use of child soldiers, sir. Contrary to Security Council Resolution Twelve Sixty One."

That gets him hard looks from Diana and Alan. He settles for inclining his head very slightly. "Yes."

Click to shrink...

At least he's copping to that barb. He did mess up when he planned to send the Team up against the Injustice League.

"But that's not my problem. I would suggest, since it's unlikely that you would want the reason why I'm taking orders from you to become public knowledge, that you simply say if asked that while Justice League members are participating in my training, ultimately you have no control over my actions? It would be a lot more credible than claiming that of team members due to the age difference and prior association."

Click to shrink...

And a lot of other League affiliates do the same thing. It's only notable here because CS!OL is an adult and more closely mentored than most of them.

He looks at Diana. Diana looks back at him.

"Have you considered this in detail?"

Click to shrink...

Not bad for something off the cuff. But it could use some workshopping, I bet.

"No yet sir, no. But I will have time to do so after Lantern Jordan's lesson today."

"Do so. I will consider your strategic utility once I have your report to review. Dismissed."

Click to shrink...

Which, as a Lantern without a lethal force restriction, is quite high. I half-expect that CS!OL ends up with a bit of a rep as 'the hero that will kill bad guys doing heinous stuff.'

Overall, not that bad a debrief. I suspect he'll think to be a bit more canny about informational security, next time he offers to hand out video footage like he did. Still, he did handle this surprisingly well given his lack of training (and the overall lack of focus on media management in his training, I bet.) With a bit of time and experience, he'll be playing journalists like a fiddle...

 

[Vaermina]

Why not? It seemed to work well so far.

Click to shrink...

Yes... Because of Author Ex Machina.

I've followed you across 3 sites Zoat, you're not pulling a solution to this one out of your ass unless Vaermina is correct and you just change the setting so you can't be wrong.

Click to shrink...

I mean... That's kind of his thing...

Are you seriously trying to say that a mere planetary super-computer is more advanced than a power ring? Because I call bullcrap on that.

Click to shrink...

Shards can do literally everything Power Rings can except on a larger scale.

Also, aren't enlightened lanterns immune to, or at least super resistant to mind control? Plus, even if he isn't, Lord Protector probaby has a contingency or two in place to prevent himself from being controlled.

Click to shrink...

No, and anyways mind control in worm isn't psychic powers it's using multidimensional effectors to actively and persistently alter the physical structures of a beings brain.

Again, just keep killing them faster than they can respawn, and when the heroes outnumber the villains 100-to-1, the world will be a much better place. Which, again, is child's play for an enlightened lantern.

Click to shrink...

General reminder that Shards are capable of communication between each other and complex reasoning.

The end result of that particularly stratagy would be the Shards activly generating a power set perfectly calibrated to destroy the Lord Protector.

Like say, someone with super speed, high level durability, and the ability to instantly collapse an area of space time into non-existence.

 

[Darko]

. Firstly, it's one aggressively contentious radio host on a Gotham radio station. Not all that many people are going to hear it anyway."

Batman gives me a mild glower. "Nationwide radio networks are now syndicating her show, and she's been getting offers of employment from other stations

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that probably happens a lot when someone interviews a superhero.

"You look surprised. The simple fact is that compared to things that the League deals with, minor acts of personal corruption just aren't that important. Particularly considering the additional impediments politicians can create to League operation

Click to shrink...

I'd say that it is important since the people that are implementing things like laws are using drugs will call into question their competence.

Most supervillains might at best destroy a few blocks of street.

A politician can pass a law that affects not only their own nation but other nations as well.

"No yet sir

Click to shrink...

"Not yet"

 

[Vaermina]

Powers usually don't care about particular hosts. As far as I'm aware, the only instance in canon of a power actively and intelligently helping is Jack Slash's power stopping Imp killing him. As far as they're concerned, one data source is as good as another. It's also worth noticing that only Caldron know that's how powers work. An outsider coming to Bet isn't going to find out about that from publically available data source.

Click to shrink...

Off the top of my head cases of powers activly and intelligently helping. Contessa, Fairy Queen, a huge number of different characters in Ward.

Without her, he could detect triggers and go full Imperium of Man. Even if he couldn't identify the reason why some people can trigger and others can't, he could simply kill everyone with powers. It would take most of his time, be extremely inefficient and result in a lot of good people being murdered, but it would be possible.

Click to shrink...

That particular attempt would run face first into Sleeper.

 

[boo600]

Slaughterhouse Nine actively kill villains whenever they enter a city. There has never been any kind of villain coalition against them, except in that one city once they're spotted.

Powers usually don't care about particular hosts. As far as I'm aware, the only instance in canon of a power actively and intelligently helping is Jack Slash's power stopping Imp killing him. As far as they're concerned, one data source is as good as another. It's also worth noticing that only Caldron know that's how powers work. An outsider coming to Bet isn't going to find out about that from publically available data source.


That's true. He can't. Without very specific information, a single Lantern can't change the system.

Mumm-Rana can. If you want an idea what she can do, consider this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=668LbT60K6M
Yes, the writers and animators clearly didn't communicate between themselves on the difference between a galaxy and a star system, but even if we assume that the low end of the feat is accurate, Mumm-Ra destroyed a star system as part of the ritual, not as the result.

Without her, he could detect triggers and go full Imperium of Man. Even if he couldn't identify the reason why some people can trigger and others can't, he could simply kill everyone with powers. It would take most of his time, be extremely inefficient and result in a lot of good people being murdered, but it would be possible.

Yes, that's true. But unless Caldron tells him that, there's no way for him to know that.

Yes, it's true that the Nazi gang would dislike that. The solution is: kill them too. They're Nazis. At this point, yes, there would be considerable collateral damage. It's been allowed to get so bad that it will require a civil war. It's still worth doing, and they certainly don't have the power to wreck the country.

No, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong here. See Leet or Panacea, whose powers actively sabotage them.

Click to shrink...

Incorrect. We see the perspective of multiple shards; Panacea and Leet are hardcore outliers. The standard viewpoint of a shard is "I love my host and I will constantly try and cheat as much as I am able to help them."

Most of them aren't allowed to cheat much - it fucks with the experiment - but things like Taylor's QA doing things she'd do if she was conscious (weave silk after she was knocked out) are more common than you think. And LP Paul is doing things that mean the experiment gets the blinkers removed.

You're a good writer, Mr Zoat, and I trust your knowledge of DC. But you have not read Worm or Ward, and you lack context on just how bad things can be.

Paul has no counter for capes such as Mama Mathers - perceiving her in any way, even her name, gives her access to and control over that part of the sensorium. Seeing her, even on a scan or with an exotic sense (fear vision) means she controls your sight. The ring AI could help once he notices what's going on… buuuut I'm not sure she couldn't infest it indirectly, creating a dybuuk just to deal with that.

And look at it another way: Legend is one of the most powerful capes, period. He turns into light, he can unleash thousands of laser beams from all parts of his body that comes with various effects and sizes - they can turn corners, impart kinetic force, cut things, freeze things, burn things. Fat, thin, staccato. He's actually really durable; he constantly heals by absorbing the light and heat in the air, the ripple of gravity as the planet spins. He converts all energy to healing himself, and it gets stronger as he shifts into his light form, helping to counter his weakness of extreme speed slowing his thoughts. If you manage to take him out, one massive Endbringer-esque hit breaking his breaker form, he'll be unconscious - but he absorbs the kinetic energy of the hit, and whatever exotics go along with it, meaning he's unconscious but completely fine, physically, and any attack on him - even unconscious - automatically turns him into his breaker form again, waking him up. He is far more powerful than most people think; he's entirely capable of repeatedly turning himself into a nuke.

Grue counters him, hard. His darkness drinks his lasers, and who knows what it would do to his light form. Just one random villain, who could kill one of the best heroes if his back was against the wall, and things went wrong.

Information gathering helps, but LPaul isn't akashically scanning or scrying, he's checking emotions and power ring scans. He's going to run into bad power interactions; trumps in particular are made to interact with things like his power ring, rather than using Shard Commands or anything to weaken or steal other powers.

And if he gets Scion's attention, he's kind of fucked unless he can drastically outscale him - he's literally the purpose Scion has for existing, meaning that suddenly Scion isn't in slowly winding down depression - he's firing on all cylinders, because he has his purpose back, and that means Paul has to deal with Scion's Path To Victory. He can probably leave - Paul would need to fly past the moon, but he can leave most parahumans behind - but Scion was canonically blown past Jupiter by the G-Driver, and it took him less than a minute to come back; the Warrior Avatar is entirely capable of FTL speeds, as well as slipping between dimensions as easily as walking down the street. And this Paul isn't linked to an Entity; I'm not sure he can scale above Scion's raw power, and the nature of Stilling/wavelength manipulation means that Scion cuts through his defenses like butter. Not unusual, for a Paul to have to deal with something like that, but with a being that powerful…?

And that assumes the Simurgh doesn't notice him - and she will. She constantly scans Earth, both telepathically and precognitively, by looking directly at the future and number crunching based on the minds she looks into. Her purpose is also to keep the cycle going; she turned against Scion because he was a threat to it. Here, he isn't, because he's not depressed. And Lord Protector Paul just doesn't have what he needs to fight someone as intelligent as the Simurgh - and that's the scary thing: she is intelligent. Inhuman, but she genuinely understands people; she doesn't just calculate like a computer. The first thing she'll do is review his whole life with post cognition, because her post cognition is basically perfect. And she'll figure him out, bit by bit.

Worm isn't quite the OWoD in terms of 'and now Caine eats you,' as can be seen by its canon end - but it was set up by powerful, prepared beings to keep it the way it is, and it takes a lot to bring that down. What Paul's doing is the exact way to fail, basically - the thing you do if you don't understand what you're dealing with. And that's always been clear - it's a bit sad, but it's in character for Yellow Lanterns to make that kind of mistake.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"Not yet"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[BR549]

Ah, I see the typical process of "thread unrelated to Worm when Worm comes up" is taking place: it's pointed out that the actual subject of the thread could deal with Worm, and the Worm fans come out and go "but ackshully", militantly.

 

[Duke Long]

I turn my head towards Diana. "Does you lasso work on congressional representatives?"

Click to shrink...

'your'

 

[boo600]

He possibly could - and main Paul, given a maintained connection to the Ophidian, definitely could - but the way he's going about 'fixing' the setting just sets everything on fire and gets him killed. Goku could probably just win; mainline Superman could probably just kill Scion with a punch or something. But he's not that overpowered, and he simply doesn't have the resources to do what he's trying to do.
Yes, even with a power ring.