With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-08-02T08:07:10+0100

Mr Zoat said:
3rd October 2010
09:06 GMT -5

I squint at the incoming handegg construct and generate a wicket-keeper's mitten to catch it.

"While this is a… Surprisingly chummy way of spending our lesson, Lantern Jordan…" I focus on his location and throw the construct his way. "I was sort of expecting something else."

An interesting way to practice launching and capturing wild projectiles. I'm guessing they're playing catch over a distance of miles. Although I would have been using a solid object to avoid accidental construct failure. Probably works for Jordan in maintaining construct integrity, though.

His construct image floating over the ring… I think he's raising his eyebrows, though the mask makes it hard to tell. "What happened to 'sir'?"

"I realised that you don't actually outrank me, and time in rank doesn't matter in separate organisations. Unless this is an American-" Construct hands form to catch the ball, then hurl it back towards me. "-etiquette lesson and I'm supposed to call you 'sir' because you're older than me."

Jordan still sticking with simpler constructs, I see. A cricket wicket-keeper's glove is pretty complex a shape by comparison.

"Oh? When did you join the Justice League?"

"The Justice League has no formal authority-" I catch the ball again and because I'm feeling fancy I actually spin around before throwing it back. "-over superhumans generally. And I imagine that the Controllers would rather than I didn't take orders from the Guardians."

I doubt they'd tolerate it even in a joint operation, just because, well, Controllers.

"How would you know? You said-" He catches and returns. "-you never met them."

"Your very loud silence on the subject. There are two possible sources of power rings: Maltus and Qward. If it came from Qward you'd have taken it off me due to them being evil. It's not the Guardians because they've stuck with green for… What, a billion years? It's not Zamaron, because they like violet and because you'd have taken it off me due to them being crazy." Catch and return. "Who does that leave?"

And there aren't that many other Maltusian groups out there, none of which make Power Rings.

"Why assume that no one except Qward can learn to make them?"

"Occam's razor. Power rings are amazing and Green Lanterns have been around for a long time. If it was the sort of thing-" Catches and return. "-that anyone could do, other people would have started it. Qward is hardly the only place that mad super-scientists come from. So if there's someone available who could have made it, they're the best place to look."

Yeah, if any other group could make them and avoid the Guardian's ire, the tech would be everywhere. After all, a multi-function device the size of a Ring, powered by emotion? That is literally the apex tool of any civilisation.

Catch and return.

"Alright, that makes sense. But why do you care what they think? If they did give you your ring, there's a good chance they're the ones who kidnapped you."

See, that's a big assumption to make. Especially since the Controllers are not so monolithically aligned as the guardians are, if only because there's more of them. And we've seen in Paragon timeline that individual Controllers can have their own little projects on the go.

Catch and return.

"Then I'll have it out with them. But they also might be able to send me back, so I'm not going to start by being rude to billion-year-old superbeings."

I can see that. Although we know that CS!OL isn't the lone version out there, he doesn't know or imagine that he could have been 'duplicated' across hundreds of possible worlds.

Catch and return.

"I mean, maybe they think I'm sort of ideal Orange Lantern candidate and they just wanted to make sure I could handle it? That's a big show of trust."

Well, given you haven't gone remotely Larfleeze, it's a good sign.

The construct image nods. "Would you go back?"

"It depends on what the terms of my return are. I'd love to go back, ring and personal lantern intact, and be my Earth's only superhero. Maybe have a look around our galaxy to see if there's anyone else there. But… Unless travel is two-way, Paula obviously wouldn't want to move, and…"

That would be one hell of a commute for dating, though.

Catch and return.

"And I don't know what I'd do about that. If it was stay or go with no coming back and no ring, I'd… Probably stay. Hopefully send a message, but it's just… I've got more opportunities to do something with my life here."

Why do I get a funny feeling that one day, there'll be a meta moment with one of the many Pauls making it home and finding an older Mr Zoat waiting for him, like a Grant Morrison meta-plot? I mean, we may get Kid Flash visiting, assuming plans haven't change, but no word on any SI making it.

"And Paula."

Catch and return.

I find myself smiling, and do my best to clamp down on the feeling as my construct starts to waver.

Careful there, CS!OL.

"That close, huh?"

"This close. I don't really have anything to compare it to, but I have every intention of making it closer. Ah. Are you and Ms. Ferris..?"

Eh, they really aren't the best for each other. She's got too many issues with pilots, and he's got too much baggage of his own.

Catch and return.

"We're not together. Guess the nice thing about having a secret identity is that you have time for things like that."

Not having one, you mean. And, I mean, Carol probably knows who you are anyway. To quote the movie: "You think because I can't see your cheekbones, I wouldn't recognise you?" Man doesn't even change his hairstyle!

"If something's important, you make the time."

Catch and return.

"Did you just quote Star Trek at me?"

Hey, steal from the greats. And it's an important message for guys like Kirk or Picard, who didn't made the time.

"Yes, but it's true." Catch and return. "Yes, I could spend forty hours a week plus travel time being an administrative assistant as well as the time I spend being a superhero and trying to have a life in whatever's left, and… Lying to everyone about it. But why?"

Catch and return.

Which would be incredibly difficult if you didn't need to sleep thanks to the Ring, and even then, there'd be days when you'd have to zonk out...

"Not really the same for me."

"Does the Green Lantern Corps not pay you a living wage? Serious question, I've got no idea if you get paid or not."

Always have to wonder how that works when they do?

How do they pay in a fragmented culture like Earth's? Swiss Bank account?

Catch and return.

"Yeah. I do. Might cause trouble for my family, though."

Most of your villains aren't that crazy. ...In fact, I can't even remember most of Hal's villains on Earth. Hector Hammond, at most, without looking them up and that's only because he was in the movie...

"Sinestro already knows who your family is."

"I know."

And he's not the sort of man to attack someone's family to hurt his foe. Not usually.

"And don't the families of most Green Lanterns plant that.. flag, with the green sigil on it, outside of their houses as a badge of pride?" Catch and return.

"... Yeah."

To be fair, most of those families are on worlds familiar with space stuff. Earth... Earth is not.

"Funny story about M.I.6. They didn't used to employ homosexuals due to the concern that they could be blackmailed about being homosexual. Then someone realised that was stupid and now it's fine as long as they're open about it." Hm. "Are attacks on the families of police officers common in America?"

Honestly, easier to defuse a potential angle of attack than leave it a risk.

Catch and return.

"No, not… Really. Because they know if they tried, every single person involved would die. Police do not take that kinda thing."

'Coming down like a ton of bricks' barely covers it.

"Well, if you want to invite me to a family barbeque I won't say 'no'. I don't think anyone will miss the implication if you're seen with me."

Catch and return.

An interesting way to out oneself.

"Heh. Thanks, I guess." The ball flies towards him, and his dismisses it. "Guess I was kinda… Thinking about it. I'd have to talk to Jack and Jim first." He aims himself in my direction and accelerates, covering the distance in a few seconds.

"And wasn't your Uncle the first Airwave?"

Huh. That's an interesting connection. And maybe a more recent one.

He looks mildly pleased. "You're the first person outside our family who knew that. And yeah, I don't remember Aunt Helen having any trouble over it. I'll.. give it some thought." He looks around. "So if you don't wanna toss a ball around, what do you wanna do?"

I reach into a pouch, and pull out Teth Adom's amulet.

"My investigation skills could do with some work. Perhaps we could look into what this is?"

Hmm... @Darko: I can see the wording of the original post being ambiguous, but it reads like he stole the amulet, then disintegrated Theo. Which means it could definitely be used to empower someone. Perhaps a 'blank' clone?

Looks like this OL will get to discover Teth Adom's tomb, a bit later than the Paragon did. It'll be interesting to see what he does with the amulet, other than handing it to Captain Marvel to take to the Wizard. Though I could see him making a case for arranging a revival or rebirth of some kind. Also some very interesting discussion of secret identities and the lack of them. I can see the case for either side, though...

Darko · 2025-08-02T08:13:24+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Always have to wonder how that works when they do? How do they pay in a fragmented culture like Earth's? Swiss Bank account?

Maybe they're allowed to trade a certain amount of metals or other things their planet finds worthwhile in order to have money.

Mr Zoat · 2025-08-02T08:25:27+0100

Ct613hulu said:
What was the Lord Protector's plan for the Endbringer's. I would assume they would be a priority as they (or more precisely whoever is making and directing them as they are obviously not natural) would clearly be the greatest threat to Thundera. The idea is that whoever is behind the Endbringers could place one on Thundera and start periodically destroying cities on Thundera just as its counterparts do on Earth-Bet. This seems like a far greater threat then single-city gangs and supervillains somehow stumbling on the portal and deciding to go through in search of victims or resources.

Does he just plan to show up and assume that his overpowered Lantern Ring and out of context supernatural abilities will grant him an assured victory?

Based on what little he saw, he's reasonably confident that they can't fit through the portal. That's just an initial assessment and not something he's so far spent much time on. Third Earth just doesn't have the sort of concentrated habitation that makes Endbringer attacks to deadly on Bet.

NightmareWarden said:
This talk of other lanterns makes me want to see Suicide Squad's Angel again.

That's not going to happen for a while.

swarm said:
Holy shit this is still ongoing after all these years

See, I think I know what you're talking about, but it's not explicit and it could be interpreted in several ways.

Steelplaza said:
I know we're pretty far from the Reach plotline at the moment, but I've been thinking about what it means that they haven't really gotten desperate yet. It's taking a while to sink in that NEMO is an actual existential threat that really could force an unconditional surrender. They're still moving to wartime footing. And when they do?

Well, the Reach has conquered a rather significant portion of space. As in, you can actually see it on a map of the universe (the universe being only a few galaxies) even if it's a wee, tiny color blot on that map. But still, that's a lot of worlds on which to discover weird, one-off artifacts and creatures. A signed favor from a God of Death to kill a single individual. A murder drone of impossibly advanced technology made by a one-off genius a million years ago they found sitting at the bottom of a well. A gate that spews forth an endless stream of Kryptonian-level monsters from... somewhere... that they managed to put a cap on. I'm just making things up, but you can image it right? No one world might be as strange as Earth, but if you take a million worlds you can probably strain an earth level of weirdness out of them collectively.

So what happens when the Reach opens up their version of the sci-fi closet, all the weird one-off weapons and hazards that they have accumulated and left in storage with "break open in case of doomsday" written on them? It's probably a good thing that Dox is so good with his power ring, because sooner or later he's going to be facing off against some awfully exotic assassination attempts.

Seem plausible?

They might have things like that, but it would be a bit like Robert Clive having a Hindu magician on standby. Culturally, it wouldn't be acceptable.

Attention Counting said:
@Mr Zoat, I beseech thee in humble supplication, let us see ~~OL's daughter~~ Best Girl Mazikeen again!

I've been re-reading the story and I've always loved their interactions, as short and few as they were. Maybe he can even introduce her to the Missus if she's not busy with Darkstars business.

I'll try and remember.

Duke Long said:
'that'
'he'

Thank you, corrected.

Foolishly, my immediate assumption upon reading this was 'so you were able to write a whole segment in one hour?'

I wish.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Most of your villains aren't that crazy. ...In fact, I can't even remember most of Hal's villains on Earth. Hector Hammond, at most, without looking them up and that's only because he was in the movie...

How could you forget all-time greats like Yellow Peril?

And also Black Hand. He's a bit more notable.

Darko said:
Maybe they're allowed to trade a certain amount of metals or other things their planet finds worthwhile in order to have money.

I suspect that you're overthinking it. It isn't that hard to fake money in our economy.

Darko said:
"some sort"

Thank you, corrected.

boo600 · 2025-08-02T08:49:47+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Perhaps, but considerably more ignorant.

Taylor is less than half his age, inexperienced and squishy. While her power isn't anything to scoff at, it doesn't do much that a Lantern can't do.

They would probably try to communicate that eventually.

Thing is, other than not making further requests for reenforcements, Piggot probably wouldn't want to draw attention to the fact that all of Brockton's villains were dead. Not if Lord Protector left promptly, which he did. And even if she did refer it to the Chief Director... Brockton Bay Experiment. And powerful parahumans aren't that strange. Coasta-Brown might like the Protectorate to recruit him, but she's not exactly going to prioritise it right then. Not unless Contessa tells her to.

Which she won't immediately because (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong here) being on Third Earth or further away from Earth than the moon puts him out of range and she can't Path him until he comes back. And even if that isn't the case, his armour now includes exotic protections created by Mumm-Rana. She might get something if she asks the right question at the right time, but it's not reliable.

Then he picks a city and does his 'you've got a week' thing. So what? Plenty of would-be heroes have done that before. And Piggot would probably have a quiet word with the local Director, but I doubt much would happen until he actually did it.

This is where Caldron actually gets together and talks about him. Getting a message to him is difficult because he's not staying still, and they don't trust him enough or know enough about him to seriously try to bring him on board. Which leaves beating him, sticking him in a cell and twisting his arm.

Fenja and Menja can become very tough, but they don't have force nullification. Even if they grow before you can kill them, they don't have regeneration by default and you can kill them by shooting them through the eye orbits. Hookwolf would absolutely require heavy ordnance, you're right there.

Oh, you're completely right there.

Ah, no, that was a theoretically version who went to Earth Bet from the start. He lived in Africa and only came to America shortly before Behemoth attacked Brockton.

I'm not even planning on writing this.

Hey, I haven't either! It would really help me... A bit, given that, I will say this again, I'm not going to write this, if you could provide references.

Yes, absolutely. To his mind, the time for careful policing was 10-15 years ago. At this point a ruthless cull is the only way to restore stability. He's not necessarily right and it's certainly not a nice thing to do, but that's how he looks at it.

While it's common knowledge in the setting that supervillains outnumber heroes, I don't think that it's because of the trauma. Similarly, I don't think that a targetted campaign against specific individuals which ends the ongoing campaign of violence that they were carrying out would increase the rate of triggers.

You don't know that.

No Entity has ever encountered a power ring, but shard-based powers rely on parallel universe connections to work. Yes, once she has a connection he'd be in a good deal of trouble. But can she make one? He looks at her, her power... Might register that? Then it tried to form a larger link. His ring could definitely detect that. Could it? Maybe. Lord Protector's lack of a database means that he has no special knowledge of the techniques involved, but subspace manipulation is a basic technique.

And while he isn't knowledgeable about the mechanics involved, Mumm-Rana is. With only one living human left to study she put substantial effort into his armour, and it does contain exotic baffles. Nothing specific -she's never encountered an Entity before either- but general 'block attack' and 'stabilise reality' charms.

But lets assume that doesn't work, and his world is filled with pain and a whispering voice telling him to come to her location. He's enlightened. The pain is extremely unpleasent but he can disassociate from it, and use his ring to control his own pain receptors. Then you've got the issue that it's trivially easy for him to get out of range... Or nuke the location she's just given him because there's no further penalty to seeing her again.

I have no disagreement with any of that.

Yes, but I suspect that's more because Grue's power won rock-paper-scissors than because of anything innate.

Nearly. Trumps are not in any literal sense made to interact with his power ring.

Take Jack Slash's mind reading ability, for example. It only works because it using the pre-rootkitted brain of other parahumans. It doesn't work on normal humans at all. So you've got most powers working on the same system... How many of their interactions are defined by that system and nothing anythinig innate?

Oh yes, if Zion woke up he'd kill Lord Protector very easily. No question at all. And then Third Earth, and everywhere else the liches ever settled. Mumm-Rana could probably create something to fight him eventually, but if that happened she's have a fraction of a second before faccing the Ancient Spirits of Goodness.

Again... True? I'm not saying that he'd win, I'm saying that what he'd try and do. If I wrote it. Which I'm not going to.

Yes. If I somehow haven't been clear until now, he doesn't understand what he's dealing with, and has access only to publically available information.

Ok. It's good that this is acknowledged, and that you know that LP Paul can't just curbstomp the setting with the strategy he's using.

I also agree that his choice makes sense from his perspective, and that if this was just a random world fallen to chaos, he could probably make a good go of it, if triggers weren't the way they were or backed up by the other Agents of the Cycle. (Although if he seriously reduced crime or conflict, Scion would definitely notice him here - the natural response of trigger events to outside influence may actually save him for a while and let him get things done.)

The main remaining note that I want to make is that Trump powers are perfectly capable of dealing with non-shard powers, just as precog powers aren't all number-crunching. Jack Slash is a unique case, because he's using old Admin access - he's really a Parahuman-only trump, and Paul should be able to curbstomp him and the nine just fine (they'd still be better coordinated, because subtle hive mind, but he definitely has the power to slaughter them anyways if Broadcast can't predict him/fuck with him).

But the entities get their powers from their own physiology… and those of the species they've eaten. Like, there was a species of crabs whose tech base came from their ability to make superfluids with their bodies, even ones that alter the way dimensional physics works. Worm powers are not hard sci-fi, and this quote from Ryuugi sums it up best:

The mathematical model/simulation thing is...not made up, per se, in the since that the Entities also have that, but people tend to boil everything they can do down to that, which it's explicitly not the case. From Scion's perspective, he describes it as clairvoyance and precognition:

The entity reaches out with clairvoyance, with precognition, and it views its destination. It communicates, covering vast expanses of space, transmitting signals across channels formed of the very foundation of this universe. These signals are broadcast only across specific realities, so that no aftereffects or lingering transmissions will contact a version of that world that hosts no life at all.

...

Study reveals worlds with dominant belief systems, peaceful worlds, worlds crowded with twelve billion individuals. Worlds with almost none.

The entity pares through these, deciding.

It investigates, and in the doing, it prepares some shards for analysis and understanding of this particular society and culture. Language, culture, patterns of behavior, patterns of society. This is something the counterpart should be emphasizing.

...

Still, the pair have settled on a set of realities.

The entity focuses on one. Enough individuals, natural conflict and confrontation. A balance of physical and emotional stressors. The environment is damaged, but not so much it would inhibit growth.

Hive. The entity communicates the decision.

Agreement. The counterpart grasps it immediately, knows which reality he means.

The focus changes. An interplay of communications, one bouncing off the other, as they designate realities. Each shard needs one, some shards need to cluster and reside across multiple realities. They draw on these worlds for power, for energy, and thus fuel the techniques they have been coded with.

Each shard, in turn, needs a target. The entity's focus expands, designating likely partners. Past mistakes have been accounted for, and the shards will connect in a covert manner. They will reside in other worlds, uninhabited worlds, and they will remain cloaked and concealed in areas this new host species is unlikely to explore.

...

With each statement, they each catalogue the realities. Similar realities are included together, for both the entities and the shards. Too many complications and confusions arise when interacting with worlds that are exceedingly similar. Not an effective form of conflict, when it is the same lessons learned over and over again. It is better to connect them into groupings, limit exposure to each set of worlds. One shard is capable of settling in a grouping of near-identical worlds, drawing energy from all of those worlds at once.

The entity looks to the future to check for danger.

Plague.

All signs point to the shards murdering their hosts.

The hosts must be protected, or this will be disastrous, counter-intuitive. The entity adjusts the innate safeguards, protections to reflect the host species and their tolerances. The bonding process will protect the host, where the host needs protection. Shards that are capable of providing flame at will cannot burn the hosts, now. Shards are reorganized, combined and clustered where necessary, to grant sufficient protection.

Infestation.

Better, but not perfect. The entity refines the process, limits certain abilities, so they will not eradicate too many at a time.

Soft. The broadcast is sent out to the counterpart, along with suggestions and tips on how to refine the shards.

Agreement, the counterpart accepts.

But the entity can still see fallout effects. There are parallels in memory storage. Not many, but there may be glimmers where the subject is capable of perceiving the information stored in the shard as the connections are formed.

For good measure, the entity breaks up one shard cluster, tunes it, then codes the effect into each and every shard. It studies the host species further, refines, attunes.

It takes time, but the entity forms a sufficient safeguard. The host species will forget any significant details.

The broken shard is cast off, joining countless others. It will bond to a host. The entity looks forward, checking.

After the target planet has revolved thirty-three times around its star, this shard will connect to a host.

A male guards his offspring, a female, with his size and bulk. A group of hostile bipeds cluster around them. They call out, making unusual loud sounds, suggesting intoxication. One of the hostile ones gestures, gripping its male parts, pulling them free of their coverings. A sexual gesture follows, waving the organ left and right, thrusting it into the empty air.

Sounds of amusement, laced with hostility.

The male and his offspring retreat as far against the nearest construction as they are able.

The shard connects, attaching to the male.

No. It is ineffective. The female is clearly more distressed.

Prey.

There is a way to maximize exposure to conflict.

The entity taps into its understanding of the bipeds and how they operate, recognizes the signs of distress, the nuances such things can have.

It views the future again, with changes made in the code.

This time, the shard settles in the male, then immediately shifts to the more distressed female.

Insinuation. The shard connects to the host's neural network.

The bond is created.

The shard opens the connection as the stress peaks, and the host doubles over in pain, bewildered, stunned. The shard then forms tendrils that contact each individual in the area. It retains traces of the entity's tampering, of the studies in psychology, awareness and memory, and is quick to adapt. It finds a manner in which it can operate, then alters itself, solidifying into a particular state. The remainder of the functions are discarded, the ones in the shard itself are rendered inert to conserve power, while the ones in the host fall away, are consumed by the shard. The host's neural network changes once more.

The female disappears from the awareness of the hostile ones that surround it.

The entity looks to the future, to see if this is sustainable, efficient.

All seems well.

A view of other bondings suggests this emphasizes younger targets, particularly those in a middle stage of development, between a lesser phase and an adult phase. Emotions are higher at that juncture, and the possibility of conflict increases further.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Everything Scion says on the matter just has him looking at the future, to the point where he uses that to double-check his homework and see how it worked out. This is why I say that the simulation stuff is exaggerated; people repeat it all the time in the fandom, but in Scion's Interlude, he legitimately just goes 'I used my precognition,' 'I looked at the future,' and 'yup, that's honest to goodness time manipulation right there.'

And honestly? Even if it was a mathematical model--

A mathematical model-based on what? He's significantly outside the galaxy cluster and making casual observations on an event thirty-three years in the future of a planet he's never even been to--if that was a simulation, that's some fucking Laplace's Demon bullshit. And this is sort of my issue with a lot of the simulation or clarketech stuff, where people try to dismiss absurd stuff in scifi, no matter how soft that scifi is, as just math or something. Well, if so, it's accurate math from over a hundred million light years away, over thirty years in the past, that he's doing on the fly, as a test case, which is by any possible point of view a way more ridiculous than it just being fucking magic. People can say it's science all they want, but let's be honest with ourselves, just like Rick Sanchez is more of a wizard than any version of Merlin, any version of the Entities where they're just using magic is by far the least ridiculous version of them, because then you can just say it's precognition and clairvoyance, like Scion does, instead of 'yeah, they looked into the void of space and made a (perfectly accurate) model of the universe in their heads to find the precise planet they were looking for, and built a model, also in their heads, of all of human history up to the present, and then built another model of every development in the next thirty fucking years to analyze the emotional state and reactions of specific individuals.'

Keep in mind that Aisha triggers after Leviathan attacked. Who existed because Eden crashed, and also Cauldron exists, and Eidolon, who made him. Scientific Model Scion squeezed that into the calculations for fun, but then forgot about it, I guess.

Meanwhile, in canon, the Warrior Entity just flies through space on a broom and wears a wizard hat.

As God intended.

Which isn't to say the Trumps would win; Paul has a lot more power than the shards are usually allowed to give. But there are plenty of trumps that could drain power ring energy, or fuck with his constructs. Grue's darkness is indeed a winner of Rock paper scissors for Legend (which is the point - low tier capes can still hurt top tier opponents, see Foil and her ilk), because his shard (like most others) is crippled - it can't just grant any power, except that that's exactly what it does if there's another power in its darkness. Either he's hacking the other capes connection, or his shard can recreate complex power structures based on the information it's absorbing and some quantum nonsense - and frankly, it's probably the second one.

(Which would make Parapaul vs 2nd trigger Gru hilarious. Unprepared parahuman steals orange light. Such a good plan. Nothing can go wrong).

Timetech · 2025-08-02T09:03:48+0100

boo600 said:
A lot of bold text.

I think you may have missed a bbcode [/B] in there, you've got bold spilling all over your post.

Old Knife · 2025-08-02T09:34:31+0100

Teth Adom powers with ring?

mastermenthe · 2025-08-02T09:49:18+0100

Mr Zoat said:
It usually takes me three hours to write a segment. Last night I spent two hours just trying to find a decent picture of Forager III. It was quite frustrating.

Who? The only link i see in the chapter is fot Airwave.

Neruz · 2025-08-02T10:44:20+0100

boo600 said:
Keep in mind that Aisha triggers after Leviathan attacked. Who existed because Eden crashed, and also Cauldron exists, and Eidolon, who made him. Scientific Model Scion squeezed that into the calculations for fun, but then forgot about it, I guess.

There are no actual limitations on Entity precognition, simulation or otherwise, so Zion was able to accurately predict that Eden would use a damaged foresight cluster to plan things out and that through sheer chance one of the blind spots that resulted from the cluster's damage would be the part where Eden needs to start decelerating, resulting in her not starting to decelerate when she needs to and crashing and everything that results from that.

But because that wasn't what Zion was looking at, he wasn't 'consciously' aware of that part, so he wasn't able to warn Eden that she was about to do something stupid.

It's made very clear in Ward that literally all the limitations on Entity precognition are artificial, Zion could actually predict literally everything that happens if he wanted to and was willing to burn the energy required to do so, and the Simurgh very explicitly does predict everything in Worm: Everyone who was like "it's all a Ziz plot" were correct, the story of Worm is all a Ziz plot, specifically Ziz's plot to kill Zion before Zion destroys all the collected data.

mastermenthe · 2025-08-02T10:57:58+0100

Neruz said:
There are no actual limitations on Entity precognition,

Please, stop. It hurts.

Duke Long · 2025-08-02T17:03:01+0100

mastermenthe said:
Who? The only link i see in the chapter is fot Airwave.

Referring to a segment that hasn't been publicised yet, I assume.

Vaermina · 2025-08-02T18:48:42+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Based on what little he saw, he's reasonably confident that they can't fit through the portal. That's just an initial assessment and not something he's so far spent much time on. Third Earth just doesn't have the sort of concentrated habitation that makes Endbringer attacks to deadly on Bet.

Ah, so you're just saying he's wrong about everything.

Neruz said:
It's made very clear in Ward that literally all the limitations on Entity precognition are artificial, Zion could actually predict literally everything that happens if he wanted to and was willing to burn the energy required to do so, and the Simurgh very explicitly does predict everything in Worm: Everyone who was like "it's all a Ziz plot" were correct, the story of Worm is all a Ziz plot, specifically Ziz's plot to kill Zion before Zion destroys all the collected data.

The weakness of predictive modeling is that it can't predict what it doesn't know.

Have a human with a power ring show up and blast Scion and he will be surprised, once. Then various shards will record that "power ring can blast" and that information will be added to the predictive model which will change to include "guy with power ring who can blast". From there each new thing "guy with power ring" does will be recorded, and even if the shards don't understand the mechanism of how the power ring is doing what it does, those new things it can do will be added into the predictive model expanding it's accuracy.

An Orange Lantern could theoretically defeat an Entity, but it would require not showing the capability to consume all forms of energy until the moment of direct confrontation.

Neruz · 2025-08-02T18:52:49+0100

Vaermina said:
An Orange Lantern could theoretically defeat an Entity, but it would require not showing the capability to consume all forms of energy until the moment of direct confrontation.

It would very probably require them to know ahead of time what they are dealing with and what to do about it.

Vaermina · 2025-08-02T19:49:07+0100

Neruz said:
It would very probably require them to know ahead of time what they are dealing with and what to do about it.

Yup.

It's why the whole problem is such a bitch to crack unless you can just brute force your way through it in some manner.

Duke Long · 2025-08-02T20:46:20+0100

Mr Zoat said:
I'll try and remember.

Come to think of it, it's a crying shame that the New Year's plan with her fell through because of the whole Anti-Life business. Would've been a riot having her at the party. Oh El really is a neglectful father though, going from wanting to connect with her to not talking to her for months (unless he's retroactively been doing it offscreen).

Ardy · 2025-08-02T21:52:04+0100

Duke Long said:
Come to think of it, it's a crying shame that the New Year's plan with her fell through because of the whole Anti-Life business. Would've been a riot having her at the party. Oh El really is a neglectful father though, going from wanting to connect with her to not talking to her for months (unless he's retroactively been doing it offscreen).

Not to mention leaving Princess all alone! That's TWO daughters he's abandoning

Prince Charon · 2025-08-03T04:27:46+0100

Ardy said:
Not to mention leaving Princess all alone! That's TWO daughters he's abandoning

OK, if Princess is the spider-girl, who is Mazikeen? the name sound familiar, but I'm blanking on when she was in the fic.

Darko · 2025-08-03T04:31:33+0100

Prince Charon said:
OK, if Princess is the spider-girl, who is Mazikeen? the name sound familiar, but I'm blanking on when she was in the fic.

She's Lucifer's right-hand woman.

It was sometime before Anti-Life hit.

Paul and Mammon were discussing a pair of demonic pistols that a mind controlled member of the Alliance of the Just was using to kill its members and Mazikeen showed up.

Apparently she's now the ruler of the Odium; Hell's manufacturing center.

Apparently in this fic Lilith somehow got pregnant by the Ophidian and Mazikeen was the result of that.

BR549 · 2025-08-03T06:00:33+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Most of your villains aren't that crazy. ...In fact, I can't even remember most of Hal's villains on Earth. Hector Hammond, at most, without looking them up and that's only because he was in the movie...

Mr Zoat said:
How could you forget all-time greats like Yellow Peril?

And also Black Hand. He's a bit more notable.

Most GL villians are space-based, but one other that comes to mind might be Doctor Polaris.

Mr Zoat · 2025-08-03T07:19:29+0100

21st July 2013
13:03 GMT -5

"…ask you how you feel about this whole thing?"

Scott Free nods as Donna lowers the machine which Sleez was using to support his shapeshifting onto Alan's construct platform, Roy standing by in case the load starts to tip.

"Honestly, I think you put more store in the whole 'God of Freedom' thing than I do."

"Diana's just as disinterested in her divine abilities. But I'd be a lot happier if it was you sitting on Batman's throne right now."

He looks unconvinced. "I don't think you can force people to be free."

"No, but you could remind them periodically that freedom is possible."

He shrugs as Donna finishes positioning the machine and picks up the New God containment unit. Alan then departs for the League's secure research centre with a wave.

"That still sounds like brainwashing to me. Darkseid doesn't force the Anti-Life equation into everyone's mind. He just broadcasts it."

"Forcing a malnourished person to eat a vitamin tablet is not the same as forcing a healthy person to eat shit."

"No, but the guy being forced isn't free. This isn't a word game, Orange Lantern. Either I embody freedom or I don't."

"Alright. But you get more of a briefing from the Justice League than I do. Are you okay with Batman-?"

"No. But they showed me the same data they showed you. And Mother Box couldn't find anything wrong with it, either."

"Ping."

He snorts quietly. "Yeah. So I don't like what Batman's doing, but I don't have better ideas any more than you do."

Donna puts the containment unit down next to the heavily bound Sleez, and Mr. Free and I walk closer.

"Batman didn't want to appear in person?"

"Be grateful you got as much time as you did."

Donna pulls the still-unconscious Sleez upright, then makes eye contact with Mr. Free. "Is it alright if I take my lasso back?"

Mr. Free looks around, checking that everyone's at minimum safe distance. "Yeah, I should be able to handle him if he wakes up."

Donna removes her lasso, then shoves Sleez into the containment unit's seat before removing the mobile suppressor and binding manacles. She steps back-.

Sleez's eyes snap open and he lunges forwards, wrapping his right hand around her left forearm. "Release me." It's Not Your Fault

Donna regards him for a moment. "No." She takes hold of his wrist with her right hand and squeezes. "I don't think I will."

CRK-crunch!

Sleez gasps in pain as she shoves him back into the seat. Mr. Free-

Ping.

-presses a button and the clamps build into the arms engage, trapping Sleez in place.

"So, the link between this and freedom?"

"It keeps everyone else free." Mr. Free walks closer. "Do you know who I am, Sleez?"

He winces, wheezes, and struggles against his bonds… And then gives up with a grunt. "Of course I know who you are. You're Mister Miracle."

"I don't remember you from Apokolips. And you've got a memorable face."

"We never met. Darkseid had tired of me long before the end of the war with New Genesis. I only know you from television."

"Have you been on Earth long?"

Sleez grins a toad-like grin. "I think I'd like to talk to a lawyer."

"I'm afraid that where Apokoliptian technology is concerned, habeas corpus is suspended. So you can answer my questions, or…" He glances at me, and then at Donna as she coils up her lasso. "One of these people encourages you to be more forthcoming."

"How quickly you abandon your principles."

"No, no, it took a while. When the alternative is Anti-Life, a lot of things get… Justified. You didn't have anything to do with that, did you?"

Sleez looks truculent for a moment, then shakes his head. "Darkseid's work on decoding the Anti-Life was far less advanced when I was exiled. Even if I wanted to, I've been away too long to contribute anything. It was a nasty surprise for me, too."

"You really didn't know I was on Earth?"

"I didn't even know that Thaddeus Brown had retired."

"He was murdered, actually."

"And I didn't know that." He tugs with his injured arm for a moment, then winces, looking at it. "Why does this stop healing?" He thinks for a moment, then returns his attention to Mr. Free, his eyes widening in recognition. "Aaaaah, it's Apokoliptian, isn't it? You just adapted it."

"I don't have a New God factory on Earth. I work with what I get. Do you know anything about any other New Gods on Earth."

"Didn't Kanto… Whatever number we're on now, attack the Louvre a couple of years ago?"

Mr. Free sighs. "Troia, if you lasso him, if there any risk of feedback?"

Donna shrugs. "I've never had any before."

"Okay, rope him up."

Donna tosses the loop over his head… And he licks his lips. "I've seen this film. I-." Donna glares at him. "Ooooh, no I haven't. No I haven't."

Mr. Free nods at her. "Thank you. Sleez, are there any other New Gods on Earth?"

"You, Barda, me. That's it as far as I know."

"Have you helped anyone understand New God technology?"

"No. I've picked up a few pieces here and there, but that's it. Personal use."

"Why did you take a job working for WayneTech?"

"Spreading corruption in California's like pissing in an ocean of piss. I needed new opportunities. And I know they're handling some of the contracts for handling Mannheim's stuff."

"You wanted it?"

"I wanted whatever I could get. I don't have a factory either."

"Have you ever met Batman?"

Donna frowns for a moment, then shrugs.

Sleez winces, then shrugs. "No? Why would I? He probably met the site managers but this isn't even my department."

Darn it. That would have been so convenient.

Someguy Somewhere · 2025-08-03T07:41:30+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Have you ever met Batman?"

Donna frowns for a moment, then shrugs.

Sleez winces, then shrugs. "No? Why would I? He probably met the site managers but this isn't even my department."

Doesn't mean he hasn't met Bruce Wayne, or any other options for a cut out between the two. And...iirc Donna's lasso works as a battle of wills to follow orders, rather then automatic truth, hence the will power + frown to get a result.

Mother Box here backs up what the Ring AI and Captain Comet made of the same data set, so we've got three hyper intelligent data processors agreeing that this is the best case option.

I'm mildly reminded of the episode of Deep Space Nine where the Augments and Bashir studied the war, and predicted the fall of the alpha quadrant. Good statistical data showed the good guys losing, but it discounts the impact of individuals.

The Captain and Squire both mentioned individuals with significant Powers throw things off even more so.

Still, while I'm sure the data could be fudged, I don't think even Batman could do so beyond Everyone's ability to notice, and at this point we're accepting it as fact rather then a cover story for mind control shenanigans. Doesn't mean it's 100% reliable but it's as close as they're gonna get.

Bigking321 · 2025-08-03T07:51:31+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Spreading corruption in California's like pissing in an ocean of piss.

Heh.

When your state is so bad even a god of corruption can't do anything with it.

Duke Long · 2025-08-03T08:07:23+0100

Mr Zoat said:
-presses a button and the clamps build into the arms engage, trapping Sleez in place.

"So, the link between this and freedom?"

'built'

If it were me, I don't think I'd want to ask Mister Free questions like that. I know it's obviously fine, but I'd be paranoid that he just hadn't thought about it and he'd immediately say, "Huh, you're right, I should let this guy go."

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-08-03T08:16:16+0100

Mr Zoat said:
21st July 2013
13:03 GMT -5

"…ask you how you feel about this whole thing?"

Scott Free nods as Donna lowers the machine which Sleez was using to support his shapeshifting onto Alan's construct platform, Roy standing by in case the load starts to tip.

Which means he's back to his little green troll form now, I expect. More stuff for the stockpile, then. And good to see Scott here, presumably to provide additional mystical support. probably safer, since Barda might take her mega-rod to him if provoked.

"Honestly, I think you put more store in the whole 'God of Freedom' thing than I do."

"Diana's just as disinterested in her divine abilities. But I'd be a lot happier if it was you sitting on Batman's throne right now."

I figure using a God-name's effects is a bit like using a Paramecia Devil Fruit from One Piece well: Stretching a single word's meanings as far as you can imagine. Which has all manner of potential, especially amongst fan-made fruits...

He looks unconvinced. "I don't think you can force people to be free."

"No, but you could remind them periodically that freedom is possible."

And sometimes, hope can be the most powerful gift you can give someone... Imagine him with a Blue Ring using his power that way.

He shrugs as Donna finishes positioning the machine and picks up the New God containment unit. Alan then departs for the League's secure research centre with a wave.

"That still sounds like brainwashing to me. Darkseid doesn't force the Anti-Life equation into everyone's mind. He just broadcasts it."

But the Anti-Life is actively harmful to the mind. Hope? Freedom? Not much harmful there?

Then again...

"Forcing a malnourished person to eat a vitamin tablet is not the same as forcing a healthy person to eat shit."

"No, but the guy being forced isn't free. This isn't a word game, Orange Lantern. Either I embody freedom or I don't."

He has a point. If he doesn't think of it that way, then it doesn't work that way.

"Alright. But you get more of a briefing from the Justice League than I do. Are you okay with Batman-?"

"No. But they showed me the same data they showed you. And Mother Box couldn't find anything wrong with it, either."

"Ping."

"I'm afraid the numbers we saw check out..." However, numbers don't always play out, especially where superheroes are involved.

He snorts quietly. "Yeah. So I don't like what Batman's doing, but I don't have better ideas any more than you do."

Donna puts the containment unit down next to the heavily bound Sleez, and Mr. Free and I walk closer.

Ah, that answers the question of how they plan to hold him. I take it it cancels out their exotic abilities, so he won't be able to mind-whammy people.

"Batman didn't want to appear in person?"

"Be grateful you got as much time as you did."

And no sign of any overreaction concerning Sleez. Looks like they didn't have any connection.

Donna pulls the still-unconscious Sleez upright, then makes eye contact with Mr. Free. "Is it alright if I take my lasso back?"

Mr. Free looks around, checking that everyone's at minimum safe distance. "Yeah, I should be able to handle him if he wakes up."

I wouldn't figure Sleez to have much metaphorical weight behind his god-hood. Not as much as Freedom.

Donna removes her lasso, then shoves Sleez into the containment unit's seat before removing the mobile suppressor and binding manacles. She steps back-.

Sleez's eyes snap open and he lunges forwards, wrapping his right hand around her left forearm. "Release me." It's Not Your Fault

Bad move, trying to exploit a weak point like her past trauma.

Donna regards him for a moment. "No." She takes hold of his wrist with her right hand and squeezes. "I don't think I will."

CRK-crunch!

Abuse of a prisoner? What abuse? I'm sure his wrist naturally looks like that.

Sleez gasps in pain as she shoves him back into the seat. Mr. Free-

Ping.

"Calibration complete. It can be activated whenever you like, dear." I doubt the pain would help him with focusing his godhood, either.

-presses a button and the clamps build into the arms engage, trapping Sleez in place.

"So, the link between this and freedom?"

"It keeps everyone else free." Mr. Free walks closer. "Do you know who I am, Sleez?"

now who's trying to stretch meanings, Scott? But yes, Sleez being free to mind-control is definitely bad.

He winces, wheezes, and struggles against his bonds… And then gives up with a grunt. "Of course I know who you are. You're Mister Miracle."

"I don't remember you from Apokolips. And you've got a memorable face."

He is rather distinct, isn't he? Some Gods really do reflect their godname.

"We never met. Darkseid had tired of me long before the end of the war with New Genesis. I only know you from television."

"Have you been on Earth long?"

A better question would be how long he's been here. 'Since the Seventies' is rather vague.

Sleez grins a toad-like grin. "I think I'd like to talk to a lawyer."

"I'm afraid that where Apokoliptian technology is concerned, habeas corpus is suspended. So you can answer my questions, or…" He glances at me, and then at Donna as she coils up her lasso. "One of these people encourages you to be more forthcoming."

Convenient, if worrying. Hopefully that gets properly sorted out at some point.

"How quickly you abandon your principles."

"No, no, it took a while. When the alternative is Anti-Life, a lot of things get… Justified. You didn't have anything to do with that, did you?"

Which makes me wonder if his nature changed any in that time. It was probably more intense than his childhood on Apokalips, after all.

Sleez looks truculent for a moment, then shakes his head. "Darkseid's work on decoding the Anti-Life was far less advanced when I was exiled. Even if I wanted to, I've been away too long to contribute anything. It was a nasty surprise for me, too."

"You really didn't know I was on Earth?"

Well, that's one point of concern removed. At this point, it looks like it's only going to be a matter of his mind-controlling erotic performers...

"I didn't even know that Thaddeus Brown had retired."

"He was murdered, actually."

Now that is a damn fine beard on that man. And to think he's only human?

"And I didn't know that." He tugs with his injured arm for a moment, then winces, looking at it. "Why does this stop healing?" He thinks for a moment, then returns his attention to Mr. Free, his eyes widening in recognition. "Aaaaah, it's Apokoliptian, isn't it? You just adapted it."

Well, you brought that on yourself, you know. Trying to manipulate an arresting officer isn't exactly innocent.

"I don't have a New God factory on Earth. I work with what I get. Do you know anything about any other New Gods on Earth."

"Didn't Kanto… Whatever number we're on now, attack the Louvre a couple of years ago?"

That hardly counts. Flying visits are too brief to be significant.

Mr. Free sighs. "Troia, if you lasso him, if there any risk of feedback?"

Donna shrugs. "I've never had any before."

And I'm pretty sure her will is stronger than his.

"Okay, rope him up."

Donna tosses the loop over his head… And he licks his lips. "I've seen this film. I-." Donna glares at him. "Ooooh, no I haven't. No I haven't."

Let me guess, he's thinking of some bondage-focused flick or other he assisted by finding talent?

Mr. Free nods at her. "Thank you. Sleez, are there any other New Gods on Earth?"

"You, Barda, me. That's it as far as I know."

Ah, the weakness of her relatively weak influence rather than Diana's truth-compelling lasoo: He can fudge his replies by qualifying them.

"Have you helped anyone understand New God technology?"

"No. I've picked up a few pieces here and there, but that's it. Personal use."

Hopefully he's being wholly truthful there.

"Why did you take a job working for WayneTech?"

"Spreading corruption in California's like pissing in an ocean of piss. I needed new opportunities. And I know they're handling some of the contracts for handling Mannheim's stuff."

Says a lot when someone like him drops a diss like that on a state.

"You wanted it?"

"I wanted whatever I could get. I don't have a factory either."

So there's also a good chance they could add 'stealing confiscated materiel' to the docket.

"Have you ever met Batman?"

Donna frowns for a moment, then shrugs.

Too open a question, OL. He might not know he was meeting Batman, for instance.

Sleez winces, then shrugs. "No? Why would I? He probably met the site managers but this isn't even my department."

Darn it. That would have been so convenient.

Doesn't rule out a meeting with Bruce Wayne, but asking that would raise certain questions about why he's asking.

A few answers that could have been squirrelled around a proper answer, but unless they get Diana over here, there's not much they can do about it. Still, at least they have him secured now, and they can dig into his history to find any discernable cases of mental influence over his clients. The conditions he's being held in are a bit iffy, but he's nasty enough to overlook it...

xSieg · 2025-08-03T08:32:35+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Donna frowns for a moment, then shrugs.

I never actually thought about it but the Lasso of Persuasion sure would be convenient for a GL, huh? I wonder if you need mystic mojo to use it. Someone like Malvolio could probably compel anyone who isn't stronger than the actual lasso.

Darko · 2025-08-03T09:04:37+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
But the Anti-Life is actively harmful to the mind. Hope? Freedom? Not much harmful there?

Depends on how it's used I guess.

Hitler could be said to have given hope to Germans and look at how that ended.

And I remember the author of Life Ore Death gave an interesting interpretation of New Gods when discussing them.

Basically, if two New Gods share the same domain then they use it in different way.

For example, Scott Free represents freedom from restraints and imprisonment.

A less moral New God of Freedom may represent freedom from moral or ethical restraint.

BR549 · 2025-08-03T09:16:54+0100

Darko said:
And I remember the author of Life Ore Death gave an interesting interpretation of New Gods when discussing them.

Basically, if two New Gods share the same domain then they use it in different way.

For example, Scott Free represents freedom from restraints and imprisonment.

A less moral New God of Freedom may represent freedom from moral or ethical restraint.

Young Justice itself, in canon, makes a similar note in the episode with Harm:

Harm said:
The legend said the heart must be pure. It never said pure good.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Veteran Lurker

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

Welp

Getting out there.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Mint Thistle

HISSSSSS!

Mint Thistle

Glomerulus

Well worn.

HISSSSSS!

Well worn.

Glomerulus

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Just zis guy, you know?

Connoisseur.

This is filth! FILTH!!

Dedicated ragequitter

The Critical Fumbler

Not too sore, are you?

Glomerulus

Veteran Lurker

Making the rounds.

Connoisseur.

This is filth! FILTH!!

Users who are viewing this thread