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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Why isn't it corruption? Because nothing is being bypassed and the ultimate judge of the DA's action -the demos- is not being kept in the dark. If they decide that a fast result is better than charging in full, they can. If not, the are entirely free to vote for someone else. The fact they trusted the headline and didn't bother reading deeper is neither here nor there.
I have to vehemently disagree with this notion.

A Lobyist gets a law passed that billionaires are exempt from taxes. This is a law, theoretically supported by a constitution, but it is 100% corruption, so it is "constitutionally corrupt". That a billion dollar ad campaign convinced a population that it is somehow good doesn't change that.
 
I have to vehemently disagree with this notion.

Let's try it with a little something further removed from contemporary politics.

I'm in the Roman Republic and I just came back from a term as governor in a province, having engaged in all sorts of bribe-taking, theft, and abuse of local notables for my own profit. A tribune hauls me before the assembly to prosecute me for this; the nerve! Fortunately I'm now rich from all my illegal dealing, so I hire the great orator Cicero. Cicero gives a brilliant speech to the assembly about how obviously everything I did was totally legitimate, and even if I did abuse my office a little those non-Roman scum had it coming. By the end of the speech, the assembly is cheering at Cicero's masterful oration and vote to acquit me, even though it's clearly against their interest to be letting me get away with all that illegal shit and they know I did it.

Corruption or not corruption?
 
Let's try it with a little something further removed from contemporary politics.

I'm in the Roman Republic and I just came back from a term as governor in a province, having engaged in all sorts of bribe-taking, theft, and abuse of local notables for my own profit. A tribune hauls me before the assembly to prosecute me for this; the nerve! Fortunately I'm now rich from all my illegal dealing, so I hire the great orator Cicero. Cicero gives a brilliant speech to the assembly about how obviously everything I did was totally legitimate, and even if I did abuse my office a little those non-Roman scum had it coming. By the end of the speech, the assembly is cheering at Cicero's masterful oration and vote to acquit me, even though it's clearly against their interest to be letting me get away with all that illegal shit and they know I did it.

Corruption or not corruption?
Nah man, that is still blatantly illegal. A better example would be the end of rome when all the wealth was owned by the ones in charge, having made laws that stopped the systems that had previously kept those in power poor.
 
I feel I should point out that something can be corrupt without being illegal; at the most basic level corruption is just dishonesty undertaken by a person or an organization for the purposes of acquiring benefits.

There is usually a lot of overlap with illegality because society generally takes a dim view of that kind of dishonesty, but as many modern institutions demonstrate it is entirely possible for the dishonesty to be completely legal, but in theory that doesn't actually mean it stops being corruption.
 
Okay. I accept that that is canon.

Now let me explain why I hate it and it's stupid.

Let us start by considering the phrase 'constitutionally corrupt'. What is a constituion? It is a supreme law which sets out the structure of and philosophical justification for the state. What is corruption? Bypassing the proper structure of the state. As such, 'constitutionally corrupt' is a contradiction in terms.

Consider the difference between these two situations:
1) You discover that the DA handling our case has a large debt to his drug dealer. You offer him a million dollars to undercharge you. Joe Snow-Blower gets paid, the DA doesn't get his legs broken and you get a small fine instead of prison time. Corruption.
2) You offer to plead guilty to a minor offence immediately in exchange for other charges being dropped with prejudice. The DA is up for reelection next week and wants a good headline now, so takes the deal. He is reelected. Not corruption.

Why isn't it corruption? Because nothing is being bypassed and the ultimate judge of the DA's action -the demos- is not being kept in the dark. If they decide that a fast result is better than charging in full, they can. If not, the are entirely free to vote for someone else. The fact they trusted the headline and didn't bother reading deeper is neither here nor there.

When it comes to Rimbor, there are two possibilities.
1) There is a system of justice that is similar to what we would recognise, but if you know who to talk to you can nudge things you way with money. Corruption.
2) You get the result you pay for in all circumstances, top to bottom. Not corruption.

Which is Rimbor? Well, the guy in the audience was mystified why the Justice League wasn't paying up, and the judge was openly soliciting in court. That doesn't suggest that they're hiding anything from anyone and that everyone knows that's how it works, and accepts it.

It's the system. I don't think it's a good system, but it is the system they have. And in a fictional setting that's great! I'd like to see an alternate form of dispute resolution which isn't just an American court with the serial number filed off. But not one which requires everyone involved to be a moron.

Imagine a road fitness check where you can pay one fee to get your vehicle approved, but if you give the clerk doing it a bit more you get priority and if you give them a lot more they just sign off on it without checking but they're financially liable for any accident you have so they have to judge carefully whether it's worth it or not. Or where after the League's attack the people of Rimbor totalled up the value of the damage and figured that whoever did it would have to have an empire of their own which would be adversly affected by trade restrictions so issued an advisory note about the attack in the assumption that the attacking empire would pay them off to normalise trade... And then found out that it's just seven private citizens who couldn't pay if off if they wanted to.

Instead... I mean, if the 'judge' is purely interested in how much money he can get out of it, why is he bothering with a court when he can just stick them in a cell and tell them how much they owe him to recall the wanted posters and let them out? Is he hoping that Savage will pay him more to keep things going longer? Is he on alien pay-per-view and needs to keep the audience entertained in the most boring mass murder trial ever? Why did he give up when M'gann asked him to? Heck, they have contact with Earth, why didn't he just send a message to Earth's governments saying that he can keep the trial going indefinitely, or he can end it tomorrow if they pay enough. How much do they want their heroes back? I'm pretty sure the US government would bail Superman. Lex might, if only so he can laugh about it.
If you've ever seen DS9, Cardassians likewise have a stupid seeming court system where (almost) everyone is convicted. The reasoning is that the trial is entertainment and indeed we see many people watching the trial in the YJ episode. It's also quite possible that like, obviously guilty people are expected to give a larger bribe than seemingly innocent ones, so the trial isn't just for show. Honestly the stupidest part of that episode was that Icon, a famed galactic lawyer, had no idea how the system worked.
 
Cappare (part 20) New
26th July 2013
23:33 GMT -5




Send alert right now.

Compliance.

It's not just his expression. He's changed his costume. Kara.. showed me what used to pass as kryptonian formal wear, and I think this is the male version. A jumpsuit with black sides and a red strip down the middle covering the back and chest and inside leg. A line of white decoration runs down the sides of the arms and there's a pale yellow… Pattern down the right side of his chest.

Doesn't look that bad. Certainly beats external underwear, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe if it had an 'S' on his left pectoral to break up the red..?

"Am I speaking to the Eradicator Program?"

"You're speaking with Kal-El."

I suspect that Lex Luthor has nightmares like this. The posture, the disdain, the intonation… A physical god who knows it and isn't bothered by it. Adom is a little like that, but this is… Worse. Because Superman isn't like that.

"Right, but you're not Kal-El as he was a little while ago."

"I'm better, now. Properly Kryptonian, as I always should have been."

"And how did this.. change, happen?"

"I was concerned about your abduction of Sod-Yat. I asked the New God Mister Miracle to open a boom tube directly to Daxam."

I sag slightly in the air. "Of course you did. And-."

A giant plume of dust and… Rock erupts from the ground a short distance away. Scans show… Yep, Eradicator androids smashing into the ground, digging for… Something.

"And you could just load yourself into his head?"

"Exposure to the Eradicator Program changed me, but I'm still fundamentally myself. You were right-"

Oh gods, it's worse than I thought.

"-by the way; being 'Clark Kent' was a waste of my time. I'll be able to do far more now that I'm abandoning that identity."

"I thought that you'd been practicing the theta wave state."

He actually smiles, and it's horrible. "I have. But the Eradicator Program was written with that in mind; it doesn't use telepathy to correct a confused brain."

"So, what now? And -not that I'm complaining- but why are you talking to me? I thought an Eradicator-inspired kryptonian would be more aggressive towards non-kryptonians."

"Now, I will recover the command section of the Doomsday and restore the ship. Once that is done, I will begin constructing the gene labs I need to recreate the kryptonian species."

"From scratch, or do you intend to alter existing people?"

"Whichever is expedient. While I understand why Kem-El did what he did, it was short-sighted. Concentrating our people on one planet put them at risk of exactly what happened."

"What exactly did Kem-El do? I never found out."

"He's the reason why daxamites are biologically divergent from kryptonians. The change wasn't voluntary, and not all of them survived the viral organism he used to do it." He glances at my face. "Every family has black sheep."

"Okay. Well, I regard recreating the kryptonian species as a good thing, and I don't have a problem with you taking the Doomsday."

"I didn't think you would. But in the interest of honesty I think I should probably mention the parts that you will have a problem with."

"Such as?"

"Amalak. He's a clear and present danger to the reborn kryptonian species. I will kill him, and take his ill-gotten trophies back to Daxam."

"Understandable, though it makes life a little difficult for me."

"I'll also be taking Har-Zod's station with me, to serve as our orbital command until the robots have had time to build something better."

"It was only here for our kryptonian contingent anyway."

"And naturally I'm going to kill Conner and Mitchell."

"And why is that?"

"Hybridisation is ungodly. And it puts our strength in the hands of our enemies."

"Not… Keen on that. Isn't Mitchell completely kryptonian now?"

"I couldn't change everything in his brain. There's still some genomorph in there. And the gods would know anyway."

"So the daxamites are alright because they don't contain alien genetic material?"

"And because they faithfully preserve kryptonian culture."

"But genomorphs are derived from Nam-Ek's genetic material, and he's-."

"A heretic and an abomination whom I will destroy once I work out how."

"Is there any chance that I can persuade you not to do some of those things in exchange for my assistance with some of the others?"

"Such as?"

"There are probably a few psion cloning plants in the Vega Systems that no one's touched. Even if you had to reconfigure them, it would save you a lot of time. Or I could give someone a power ring or two."

His eyes narrow. "And in return, I let your friends live."

"That's what I was going for."

"I can check Vega myself. And you're not my only source of power rings."

I blink. "Excuse me?"

"You're excused. I have work to do."

"No, wait, where are you getting rings from? There's no way that Zamaron would supply you and I doubt that it's the Guardians. So, Sinestro?"

He glances back at me, then his gaze-. What's he looking at?

Oh, no.

"Why is LexCorps sending a security force here?"

"He owns the site. Don't worry, I'll give him one chance to stand down. He's in violation of Earth law by not declaring this discovery anyway, and I have the legal authority to confiscate it."

"You don't, actually. You lost it the moment the Eradicator Program propagated itself into your mind. And I'm afraid that-."

Then things get blurry.
 
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Ho boy. This can only end poorly - though it's nice to see a classic 'superman got mind controlled again' arc.

I wonder if Clark will still go through with parts of the eradicator's plan after he's unwhammied - bringing Kryptonians back from the brink of extinction isn't an inherently ignoble goal, after all.
 
"I didn't think you would. But in the interest of honesty I think I should probably mention the parts that you will have a problem with."
Is it just that honesty is considered an acceptable kryptonian value regardless of circumstances, so it wasn't removed from Superman? Because it surprised me a bit that he was willing to be honest with an alien when he must know that the result of that honesty is likely conflict.
"He owns the site. Don't worry, I'll give him one chance to stand down. He's in violation of Earth law by not declaring this discover anyway, and I have the legal authority to confiscate it."
'discovery'?
 
26th July 2013
23:33 GMT -5




Send alert right now.

Compliance.
Very much a good idea, though only those able to withstand Kryptonian strength should respond. So Icon, Captain Marvel, Adom, Superboy and 'Wonder Boy', and any OMACs capable of matching them. Anyone else would be a liability.

It's not just his expression. He's changed his costume. Kara.. showed me what used to pass as kryptonian formal wear, and I think this is the male version. A jumpsuit with black sides and a red strip down the middle covering the back and chest and inside leg. A line of white decoration runs down the sides of the arms and there's a pale yellow… Pattern down the right side of his chest.
Always wondered what the white bits are.? They don't seem the sort to go in for ruffles, and some artists drew them as clumps of something bone-like.

Doesn't look that bad. Certainly beats external underwear, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe if it had an 'S' on his left pectoral to break up the red..?

"Am I speaking to the Eradicator Program?"
Drawback of greediporting, I guess: No way to spot 'evil' costume changes before you're already within punching range.

"You're speaking with Kal-El."

I suspect that Lex Luthor has nightmares like this. The posture, the disdain, the intonation… A physical god who knows it and isn't bothered by it. Adom is a little like that, but this is… Worse. Because Superman isn't like that.
If Lex is watching this, which he probably is, he's already got teams on the way with Krytponite beam weapons...

"Right, but you're not Kal-El as he was a little while ago."

"I'm better, now. Properly Kryptonian, as I always should have been."
So a significant downgrade. In terms of personality, at least.

"And how did this.. change, happen?"

"I was concerned about your abduction of Sod-Yat. I asked the New God Mister Miracle to open a boom tube directly to Daxam."
...Right into the Eradicator's clutches, of course. And significant that he called Sodam 'Sod-Yat.' The equivalent Kryptonian variation of his name, presumably.

I sag slightly in the air. "Of course you did. And-."

A giant plume of dust and… Rock erupts from the ground a short distance away. Scans show… Yep, Eradicator androids smashing into the ground, digging for… Something.
The 'Doomsday' segment buried there, of course.

"And you could just load yourself into his head?"

"Exposure to the Eradicator Program changed me, but I'm still fundamentally myself. You were right-"
Hopefully they can get the program out of his head at some point. Not sure quite how they managed it in the comics...

Oh gods, it's worse than I thought.

"-by the way; being 'Clark Kent' was a waste of my time. I'll be able to do far more now that I'm abandoning that identity."
Yep, just like the comic storyline.

"I thought that you'd been practicing the theta wave state."

He actually smiles, and it's horrible. "I have. But the Eradicator Program was written with that in mind; it doesn't use telepathy to correct a confused brain."
So probably super-nano-tech or its own parapsychic broadcast. In the comics, the suit was a conduit for such a transmission...

"So, what now? And -not that I'm complaining- but why are you talking to me? I thought an Eradicator-inspired kryptonian would be more aggressive towards non-kryptonians."

"Now, I will recover the command section of the Doomsday and restore the ship. Once that is done, I will begin constructing the gene labs I need to recreate the kryptonian species."
In other words, he's too busy to bother attacking you right now, and a refined Kryptonian like him isn't about to engage in fisticuffs anyway.

"From scratch, or do you intend to alter existing people?"

"Whichever is expedient. While I understand why Kem-El did what he did, it was short-sighted. Concentrating our people on one planet put them at risk of exactly what happened."
So he'll probably 'correct' the changes to the Daxamites and use them as foot troops while his 'pure' Kryptonians are maturing.

"What exactly did Kem-El do? I never found out."

"He's the reason why daxamites are biologically divergent from kryptonians. The change wasn't voluntary, and not all of them survived the viral organism he used to do it." He glances at my face. "Every family has black sheep."
A big middle finger to the 'traitors', as Kem-El probably saw it, eh?

"Okay. Well, I regard recreating the kryptonian species as a good thing, and I don't have a problem with you taking the Doomsday."

"I didn't think you would. But in the interest of honesty I think I should probably mention the parts that you will have a problem with."
Yes, best to lay all the cards on the table, before one of you has to flip it.

"Such as?"

"Amalak. He's a clear and present danger to the reborn kryptonian species. I will kill him, and take his ill-gotten trophies back to Daxam."
To be expected, I suppose.

"Understandable, though it makes life a little difficult for me."

"I'll also be taking Har-Zod's station with me, to serve as our orbital command until the robots have had time to build something better."
Technically belongs to Clark anyway.

"It was only here for our kryptonian contingent anyway."

"And naturally I'm going to kill Conner and Mitchell."
Okay, that might be a step too far for OL to tolerate.

"And why is that?"

"Hybridisation is ungodly. And it puts our strength in the hands of our enemies."
Because Kryptonian purity is so important...

"Not… Keen on that. Isn't Mitchell completely kryptonian now?"

"I couldn't change everything in his brain. There's still some genomorph in there. And the gods would know anyway."
...The basically dead gods that are at best, clinging to the burnt cinders of the planet, or adapted to a new existence on Daxam...

"So the daxamites are alright because they don't contain alien genetic material?"

"And because they faithfully preserve kryptonian culture."
But not 'properly' enough for the Eradicator's taste, of course.

"But genomorphs are derived from Nam-Ek's genetic material, and he's-."

"A heretic and an abomination whom I will destroy once I work out how."
Because of his super-healing abilities, right? Edit: Ah, right, the Rondor is a sacred beast on Krypton. Presumably because of their healing powers (their horn was basically a biological Purple Healing Ray.)

"Is there any chance that I can persuade you not to do some of those things in exchange for my assistance with some of the others?"

"Such as?"
At least until they can terminate the Eradicator and remove its influence from Clark. Though some of Kal-El's goals are admirable enough to keep on.

"There are probably a few psion cloning plants in the Vega Systems that no one's touched. Even if you had to reconfigure them, it would save you a lot of time. Or I could give someone a power ring or two."

His eyes narrow. "And in return, I left your friends live."
Oh, that's a guarantee.

"That's what I was going for."

"I can check Vega myself. And you're not my only source of power rings."
...Excuse you, what? 😨

I blink. "Excuse me?"

"You're excused. I have work to do."
Yeah, what OL said! 😤

"No, wait, where are you getting rings from? There's no way that Zamaron would supply you and I doubt that it's the Guardians. So, Sinestro?"

He glances back at me, then his gaze-. What's he looking at?
The Indigo Tribe wouldn't bother, and the Inversions aren't even in the market yet. So unless he's got a line on Yellow or Blue...

Oh, no.

"Why is LexCorps sending a security force here?"
I mean, OL... Superman poking around a facility that Lex knows holds Kryptonian tech? I'd have thought the man smart enough to not risk lives over this, though...

"He owns the site. Don't worry, I'll give him one chance to stand down. He's in violation of Earth law by not declaring this discovery anyway, and I have the legal authority to confiscate it."

"You don't, actually. You lost it the moment the Eradicator Program propagated itself into your mind. And I'm afraid that-."

Then things get blurry.
For OL's sake, I hope that's a squad of OMACs bursting out of a Hush Tube at full enhancement...

Well, we expected it, but this is really double-plus-ungood. 'Last Son'-mode Supes is going to be an extra-tough challenge, because I don't expect he'll hold back anymore while under Eradicator control. Earth is about to get a taste of a Kryptonian going all-out. This is going to be an 'all hands on deck' moment for the League...
 
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Huh, what if Paul offered the Corps's medical services to restore Daxamites to full Kryptonian status?
 
"I was concerned about your abduction of Sod-Yat. I asked the New God Mister Miracle to open a boom tube directly to Daxam."

I sag slightly in the air. "Of course you did. And-."

Sod-Yat, huh? And of course he did. After already visiting Daxam himself and getting kicked off, and without seeing the results of the diplomatic meeting. Moron.

Exposure to the Eradicator Program changed me, but I'm still fundamentally myself. You were right-"

Oh gods, it's worse than I thought.

Yep.

And you're not my only source of power rings."

…Sinestro? Because I'm coming up blank for anything else.
 
Is it just that honesty is considered an acceptable kryptonian value regardless of circumstances, so it wasn't removed from Superman? Because it surprised me a bit that he was willing to be honest with an alien when he must know that the result of that honesty is likely conflict.
It's a virtue, and it has utility. The Eradicator Program is happy to countinence lies, but is weighted against them. It's also pretty confident.
Thank you, corrected.
Thank you, corrected.
Did get a chuckle out of Paul taking Kal-El agreeing with him as a sign of how far off the reservation he's gone.
Idosyncratic, yes. Completely delusional, no.
Because of his super-healing abilities, right?
No, because he got those by killing a sacred animal.
Zoat, since Nam-Ek was just brought up again, I was wondering:

Why didn't you make a TFS "Seriously, what the fuck is Namek!" Joke when Nam-Ek went on his rampage all those years ago?
I don't think I'd watched that episode back then. Also, none of the other characters would have understood it.
Huh, what if Paul offered the Corps's medical services to restore Daxamites to full Kryptonian status?
They're not keen on aliens.
 
I hope once this is over Paul and Batman will take Superman over the coals over how idiotic he was because of his self-righteousness.
 

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