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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Rafin said:
The Green Lantern Corps fought in the American Revolution? And not just in canon, but in your more consistent version of Earth 16 as well? Can you elaborate?
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a) woosh
b) Sinestro:

Mr Zoat said:
Headhunting

14th August
19:24 GMT

I get a few odd looks as I thread my way through the streets of the imaginatively named Korugar City. Actually, its name is rather emblematic of the political problems facing the whole of the planet. It used to be called Sinestro City, and before that it was a scrubby bit of nowhere whose sole claim to fame was not being part of the territory of any of the three belligerent powers whose conflict blighted the lives of everyone living on Korugar. When Sinestro took over he had the new planetary capital built here, making a point about new beginnings and moving on from old follies. The government he set up named it in his honour, a vote of thanks from the people he saved from neutronic self-annihilation. Then, when he was arrested by Jordan and his government collapse
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Arguably, the Green Lanterns opposing the Reach would've involved a fair bit of partiality regarding the puppet states of the latter. So, it's less that Orange Lantern is doing it when Green Lanterns usually don't, and more that Orange Lantern is doing it competently.
 
As a comment on the the Brazil issue, there is the modern day arguments over Arctic Sovereignty.

It's a patch of land and ocean that has a local tribal populations that really has very little in the say of who owns it, and is generally claimed by anyone and everyone who can get anywhere near it just for bragging rights. And before the discovery of a truly staggering amount of undersea oil in the region, no one really cared. After that came to light?

"December 10, 1982
The longest-running negotiation in the history of the United Nations culminates in the signing of the Convention on the Law of the Sea, which grants coastal states a 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone and allows them to assert control over territory beyond that limit if they can prove, geologically, that the seabed is an extension of their continental shelf. The treaty enters into force in 1994 and is ratified by every Arctic nation except the United States." (note that the US joined eventually, and China got 'observer status', but that falls within the Rule 8 time frame)​

So, now we have a region with competing claims of sovereignty, with multiple nations touting significant armed forces and interest in claiming resources in the area. We can be friendly about this sort of thing at times. But generally it boils down to who can prove they own stuff under the legal agreement, vs who can actively claim the region by force. Which lead to developments in military ice breakers and an increase in military aircraft patrols in the region, something that had been hoped to stop or slow after the end of the Cold War and you know...the impending nuclear threat coming over the pole.

The local tribes, depending on who's region they fall into, might get some input on local fishing rights or environmental issues, have little to no actual power to make or enforce any international laws in the region. Most of them just keep doing what they've been doing for the last few centuries.

If the DC universe version of the Inuit Tribes in the region suddenly got Danner'ed, or some other super powered faction claimed a chunk of the region (Say who's got that fancy igloo up there again?.....fellow with the cape and underwear on the outside?), I'll go out on a limb and say we'd see a rather different level of interest from the UN.
 
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I think it was Heinlein who said (via Lazarus Long) 'There's no such thing as rights, only opportunities'. If you look at the bones of it, you've got agreements that seem to have worked, a bit, historically. And, arguably, 'primate politics', which defines what is 'fair', and hence reasonable. Then throw in Dunbar's number, which tells you the standard size of a tribe, and that's the limit on the size of unit a lot of people think in. Beyond that, 'city', 'country', they're abstracts, 'acts of faith', things people believe in. Sometimes helpfully defined by geography. And, social inertia.

So, get out your wooden spear, with the fire-hardened sharp bit, and shake it at the people who worship demons, and eat babies, who live on the other side of the river. :)

(I found that the lack of content in the Wikipedia article on moral universe (which by some definitions is who/what morality applies to) interesting...)
 
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Ganurath said:
Arguably, the Green Lanterns opposing the Reach would've involved a fair bit of partiality regarding the puppet states of the latter. So, it's less that Orange Lantern is doing it when Green Lanterns usually don't, and more that Orange Lantern is doing it competently.
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But... He's not doing it competently... He's being super hamfisted about it...
 
Vaermina said:
But... He's not doing it competently... He's being super hamfisted about it...
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We don't exactly have a full description of how the GLC usually operates in this types of scenarios, so for all we know the SI may be acting in a hamfisted way, or he may be acting in a perfectly sensible manner given the situation.
 
"Unnamed God of Tillettit, you belong to Agent Orange."

Either the SI wouldn't assimilate the godling because he wouldn't want it as a construct lantern or he would assimilate it as a warning to show the consequences of even so called gods crossing the Orange Lantern Corps/ NEMO.

EDIT: Also the godling may have all of the eyes that where sacrificed to if. If it didn't eat them, but it seems to have an eye fetish if it's chosen sacrifice and physical forms have any indication.
 
CandyAddict said:
Is there an image of renegade Paul somewhere?
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He probably looks something like this:
450


Just with shorter, black hair.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
Sinestro was kicked out of the green lantern corps for doing that.
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A) Most of the Corp still has a great deal of respect for him...

Mr Zoat said:
"Because he wants it more. You want to be great, Lantern Stewart wants to achieve great things. Lantern Jordan wants to be the greatest because at the moment most of the Green Corps thinks of former Lantern Sinestro in that way, and that offends his sense of how things should be."
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B) Kicking Sinestro out of the Corp involved another revolution

Mr Zoat said:
The first Greenie in the Justice League." She nods. "Sinestro took him on as his personal student, because Abin Sur had been about the only friend he had at that point and if the Human was going to wear his ring then he was going to learn to use it properly. They worked together for about a year before Sinestro decided that his new apprentice was ready to see the wonders he'd achieved on Korugar. 'Course, he hadn't spent a lot of time on Earth. Didn't appreciate how individualistic Americans tend to be. And he certainly didn't expect Katma Tui to kick off a planetwide rebellion during his visit. Two eight one four attempted to take her into custody as a crazy anarchist and got a very pointed demonstration of his mentor's dark side. After he confirmed it for himself he put a call in to the Guardians and Sinestro's ring got deactivated. Sinestro was then tried before the Corps, convicted and banished to the antimatter universe, his ring going to Katma Tui."
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*looks at last post* I meant to bold the bit about Jordan in the quote too... lemme fix that...
 
TheMidnightRook said:
A) Most of the Corp still has a great deal of respect for him...
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Irrelevant simply because you have the respect fo members of an organisation or group doesn't mean you haven't been or won't be removed from said group.

TheMidnightRook said:
B) Kicking Sinestro out of the Corp involved another revolution
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The revolution was not supported or endorsed by the GLC or the guardians the GLC were fighting Sinestro for using his status as a green lantern to get overly involved in politics.
In short, the GLC fought Sinestro for using his power ring in politics at all not because his rule was oppressive or unjust.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
The revolution was not supported or endorsed by the GLC
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Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Your original statement:
DAT_NOOB said:
To my knowledge none of the green lanterns have used their powers to support or join any revolutionary organisations
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Sinestro, as a green lantern, used his powers to overthrow Korugar's prior governments. Hal Jordan, as a green lantern, used his powers to support Katma Tui's rebellion and overthrow Sinestro.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Doesn't need an orbital battlestation to relinquish UN oversight. Just need to keep doing what they were doing before. Without their oversight. I imagine that most nations in the UN would still want their assistance, and would work out other treaties, or just the same treaty, as an individual nation.
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also, wasn't the watchtower demilitarised/disarmed?
 
TheMidnightRook said:
Sinestro, as a green lantern, used his powers to overthrow Korugar's prior governments. Hal Jordan, as a green lantern, used his powers to support Katma Tui's rebellion and overthrow Sinestro.
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Sinestro lost his ring because he overthrew Korugar's prior government. Hal Jordan as a green lantern arrested Sintestro for overthrowing Korugar's prior government Katma Tui's rebellion, being the incident that informed him of this violation, just so happened to be going on at the same time.
 
Idkusername said:
Mr. Zoat, there's another 'Odaate' in the first snippet of 'Falling Action'.
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Thank you, corrected.
TheMidnightRook said:
Sinestro, as a green lantern, used his powers to overthrow Korugar's prior governments. Hal Jordan, as a green lantern, used his powers to support Katma Tui's rebellion and overthrow Sinestro.
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Technically, he just provided public support to the group who took power. That was how he got away with it for so long.
 
Low Politics (part 3)
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    • 5th April
    16:56 GMT -5

    I smile, because why wouldn't I?

    "King Orin. Kaldur'ahm." Kaldur's face is neutral, while Orin looks mildly annoyed. "Do you want to do this here? I don't really have an office in my official capacity."

    Orin gives me a curt nod. "We may as well."

    We watch each other for a moment.

    After I feel that it's dragging on, I raise my eyebrows and shrug.

    "As King of Atlantis, I formally request that you rescind your offer of a defensive pact with the City of Venturia."

    "As Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps, I refuse. The Orange Lantern Corps and its allies will stand by its commitment to the City-State of Venturia."

    "You have the authority to do that?"

    "My powers aren't precisely defined yet. But naturally, I talked the issue through with Clarissi Vril Dox, who can deploy both Orange Lanterns and LEGION fleet resources on his own authority, and he agreed to it. The only higher authority would be the full NEMO council, and between us Dox and I have three out of seven votes. If you want to try and get us overruled then you'll need to convince three Controllers and the head of the Darkstars that this offer is contrary to NEMO's broader interests, and frankly I don't think they'll care enough."

    He nods. He didn't think that was a workable avenue, but he had to ask.

    "Why are you doing this?"

    "The Orange Lantern Corps needs magicians, and a single city-state that depends on us for its protection is a lot easier to deal with than anywhere else on Earth we could get them from."

    He doesn't start exactly, but that clearly surprised him.

    "That's it?"

    "No, no, there are a lot of other factors that made them a good choice and now a good time. But if we didn't need their expertise Dox wouldn't have agreed to use LEGION resources, and if the Atlantean political side was different then they wouldn't have wanted what we're offering."

    "You're intervening in an internal Atlantean political dispute. If you actually send troops into the ocean it's an act of war."

    "Is Atlantis renewing its claim to the entirety of Earth's oceans?"

    Which was actually a thing. Not for a few generations now, though some slogans referencing it occasionally make the rounds even today.

    "Our part of the ocean."

    "Venturia considers itself to be an independent political entity, something which it has de facto been for several decades. Have you been informed of the referendum they intend to hold on the subject?"

    "The Queen hasn't authorised it, and wouldn't have the authority to even if she wanted to."

    "I.. haven't actually met King Cyprian's wife, but since he has full regnant authority I'm not clear why her feelings matter?"

    "Queen Ptra, the rightful ruler of Venturia."

    "Venturian rulership isn't strictly hereditary, and there might be a slight problem with expecting a city to accept the rule of a woman who hasn't ever visited, let alone lived there."

    I look him pointedly in the eyes when I say that. We both know perfectly well what Queen Cora was trying to do when she left him to be raised by his father, but he moved to Poseidonis when he was eighteen and not sixty. And he still struggled to be accepted. Still does in some places. Ptra is not only older but a total outsider trying to get the top job. Orin was tutored by his mother for years before her death.

    "If Cyprian wanted to dispute the approved succession arrangements, then he should have brought it to me for adjudication."

    "The approved succession arrangement, in accordance with Venturian law and tradition and in keeping with their treaties with Poseidonis, is that the monarch nominates their successor. The fact that the Poseidonis government for some reason decided to ignore the notification or treat it like something that required its approval is irrelevant. If you were unaware of this, then I can only suggest that you fire your legal counsel. There is no dispute in law; the law is very clear. Also -not entirely relevant to me, but worth mentioning- last time they went to the ruler of Atlantis for adjudication your grandmother stole Queen Clea's daughter. They have no confidence in you or your position."

    "Even if I accept that, Cyprian still doesn't have the authority to secede from Atlantis."

    "Does it matter?"

    "Of course it matters."

    "Why?"

    "Why does the law matter?"

    "Yes. From where does the law derive its authority? If it's royal authority, Cyprian wants to secede. If it's the consent of the governed, they're having a referendum. If it's military force…"

    "If it's military force then I've got until your fleet arrives to pacify Venturia."

    "Our treaty went live the moment he signed it. If the fleet arrives and finds Venturia occupied, they'll still attack. In the interim, I and any other Orange Lanterns who can get here will undertake the defence of Venturia, should it become necessary. My recommendation is that you send official observers to the referendum and then focus your efforts on building a working relationship with the newly independent Venturia."

    "Sending observers would demonstrate that I considered that referendum valid."

    "A free and fair referendum is an expression of the will of the people, whether it has the force of law or not."

    "People who've only heard Queen Clea's propaganda for the last fifty years."

    "So you'd accept it if you were able to run a 'remain' campaign?"

    "I wouldn't-."

    "Hawkman to Mount Justice." A holographic screen appears with Mr Hol's face on it. "And.. Orange Lantern. I commend you for your efficiency. We weren't expecting your fleet for some time."

    King Orin stares. "They're here-?"

    I frown. "I wasn't expecting them for.. months."

    Mr Hol presses a button, and a second smaller screen appears. A representation of the solar system and a marker approaching the inner planets.

    "It seems that your Corps has prioritised you."

    "Ring?"

    "Fleet is broadcasting LEGION codes. An Orange Lantern is also present."

    "Oh. Okay." I frown. Can't think who-. Did Lantern Xor finish.. really quickly? I don't think that Dox would have given him new orders… "Show me the ships?"

    A construct appears, an.. odd conglomeration of spheres linked by tubes. The size suggests a generation ship or space borne habitat. It clearly doesn't look like a conventional ship. I don't recognise-.

    **Greetings, Earthlings and future customers!**

    Mr Hol's grimace suggests that he heard that. I glance at Orin and Kaldur and from their responses they heard that too.

    **I am Lord-Lantern Manga Khan, and I am proud to announce that your system has been chosen as the new site of ClusterCorp's ongoing megasale! You will shop! You will consume! We will be enriched! Or else! ClusterCorp: for all your needs, forever!**

    Slowly, the attention of the others turns towards me.

    "Don't look at me. I didn't give him a power ring."
     
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