With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · Apr 19, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
28th October 2012
17:28 GMT +3

"…psychiatrists to experience their patients' condition. Fewer avail themselves of the opportunity than choose to experience nightmares, and I doubt that either will ever be truly popular."

Hephaestaean nods at Melinoë's description. 'Nightmares and Madness' is never going to be a super-popular domain, but there are things she could be doing with it that she isn't. Actually allowing cursing, for a start. I wasn't keen due to the fact that magic regulation is a sensitive enough topic already and I wanted her to at least be able to connect with some people, even if they were weirdoes like Dr. Crane.

On the other hand, if she could break Crane of his little habit of testing his formulae on himself, or on other people without permission, he may well be able to make breakthroughs in his studies of fear. Wonder what Batman would think of that rehabilitation?

Hephaestaean makes eye contact with me for a moment while his other limbs leaf through Melinoë's written records. They have cameras, so… It looks like he's capable of multithreading his thought processes now. Sorting huge quantities of data will be child's play. We weren't sure he'd get 'data'…

"Unless you allowed it to be weaponised, which Paul advised you not to do."

Good to see him taking advantage of his new domains.

The National Rifle Association is already suing to get a ruling saying that magic ammunition is covered by the 2nd Amendment, and given the changes that the Sheeda caused they'll probably get it. Regular small arms ammunition was not reliable against Sheeda armour, even if the shooter could hit them. The original lawsuit was trying to get offensive spells covered as well, but it was clear fairly early on that that wasn't going to work. Though…

Americans, huh?

Still, worth hashing this out now, rather than when some loony wizard-wannabe forges literal magic bullets of animal transformation, or something silly...

A gun is a gun. A weapon. Something like a knife is a tool. Just about every kitchen on the planet has at least one sharp knife, and most will have more. Yes, you can stab someone with one, but there are plenty of other daily uses. Same with saws, nails, hammers…

When someone learns magic, even if they don't learn any purely offensive spells, they've learned something that effectively lets them smith a gun in a minute or two with no equipment. Not a great gun, but it'll still kill people. Electricians could probably rig up a taser if they has access to a toolkit and some wire, but they don't learn how to throw lightning.

There's a reason most RPGs (such as D&D and its derivatives) put hard restrictions on what spellcasters can do compared to martial classes. It only takes a short time for the latter to become irrelevant in combat scenarios, much less outside of them.

Legislatures around the world are interesting places right now.

"Do you intend to command me otherwise?"

I don't even want to imagine the shouting matches. Especially in countries with particularly strict religious practices and opinions about 'magic'.

"Not at the present time. You are active in your domain; I do not intend to second guess you. My main query for you regards your work with your father. Nothing about your domain relates to justice or judgement."

"Father needed more judges and my brother and I were available."

Ah, OL. Making more work for everyone. Still, I suppose they enjoy actually doing things, rather than sitting around looking moody.

"Would you object to those responsibilities being passed to other people?"

"No. But it would take a considerable amount of time to train someone in the forms of Father's court."

Since even the original once-mortal judges are snowed under with work, I guess.

"I think it is worth retasking Dike and Eunomia. It is unlikely that mortal judges will turn to us for guidance within the foreseeable future, and Erebos has a substantial backlog now."

"My lord, have you considered promoting the older shades? Those with long exposure of Lord Hades' court would make up in experience what they lack in divine magic."

Hardly who you need to take it up with. But perhaps Phaeste will pass that on to Hades.

He nods. "That may be wise, but it remains Hades's decision. This is his domain, and I will not intrude on the details of his rulership." He returns his full attention to Melinoë. "You may take your leave; I will return your notes to you once I have copied them."

Melinoë nods and turns away, not looking at me as she heads back towards her court.

At least he knows the old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Hades has things well in hand, no need to go sticking his nose in.

"Paul." He waits until Melinoë closes the door to his borrowed office. With so many deities gathered here to make this happen, I imagine that he decided to stay put until he'd been able to meet them in his new official capacity. Or perhaps so that he can deal with Tartarus's inmates. "How goes it?"

"Slight problem. Captain Marvel can't transform. Zeus was one of his sponsors-."

I suspect Hecate would be quite vocal in her reminders about freeing, or at least paroling, the remaining Titans.

He nods. "And with Zeus rendered mortal, that power is no longer available. Has it affected anyone else?"

"The two friends with whom he shares his power. I'm… Not aware of Zeus personally sponsoring anyone else. I don't suppose that you're able to sort him out, are you?"

If he can't, then the Wizard will have to make other arrangements. Let's hope he's amenable to revising his alias.

"Not without breaking my word to Zeus and granting someone else his station. What steps have you taken?"

"I asked another person with similar abilities to see if they could transform him. They can't. I asked Zeus, and he.. didn't have any helpful suggestions."

Putting it a lot more politely than he did.

"He asked you to suck his penis, didn't he?"

"And now Marvel is going to talk to the man who Zeus delegated the job to."

Ah, that Zeus is that predictable.

Hephaestaean grimaces. "Because of course Zeus couldn't pay attention to a mortal champion himself. In ages past such things were a major source of interest amongst the Olympians." He shakes his head. "Now many barely pay attention to their own domains, indulging themselves rather than doing their duty."

I remember a forge on a hillside of-.

Hey, now. Hephaestus is one of the few good ones, remember?

"I know that expression." I see a red light behind his left eyeball. I guess that's some sort of analytical system. "Even though I only had a handful of worshippers, I answered the prayers of the Amazons and I went to smithing trade shows. I even wrote a few articles in trade magazines. I didn't try to convert people, because who cares what some old smith from a Greek island hardly anyone has heard of? I could have done more, but I was still doing my duty."

And that's the kind of attitude you want in your deities.

"One other problem. I take it that you're happy with Hades's work?"

Hephaestaean nods. "I intend to make this 'safe harbour for the souls' a major part of our bidding for the souls of mankind."

In other words, he'll see that all honest worshippers of the Olympians will be bound for Erebos? I bet the events of recent years have seen people reconsidering their choices.

"What's your plan for when Persephone asks for a divorce?"

"… Oh."

...Oh, yeah. Ditching Aprhodite would set an awkward precedent, wouldn't it?

"You divorced yourself from Aphrodite, but you could do that on the grounds of infidelity. Same with Hera and Zeus. But you didn't state that as the reason. So it looks like you've just taken the authority to divorce people for yourself. Persephone has never been happy in her marriage, but she's been faithful and so has Hades. Unless I've missed something-."

"The only grounds for divorce would be her habitual abandonment of her husband, and that would require him to ask for one. Which he will not do."

And to be fair, that 'habitual abandonment' is spending time with her mother Demeter to ensure she doesn't bring on an eternal winter.

"But does the King of Olympus need a cause?"

"He should. I came to the throne by power, but I took that power because I believe that my cause is just. If I rule by power alone then I'm no better than Cronus."

...Or Zeus. So... Lay down rules. Set down restrictions on what the Gods can do, both relating to their domains and beyond them?

I shrug. "I agree, but my opinion matters little. Persephone doesn't know me, and while Hades likes me he doesn't like me enough to forget the love of his life and mother of his children."

"Do you have any advice?"

And, to be fair, this is based largely on a guess as to what Persephone is up to.

"Establish a constitution defining your powers and responsibilities and stick to it. But that's for the future. Right now…" I shrug again. "Not… Really. I don't think there's a good answer. Any advice on the Captain Marvel issue?"

"Zeus derived his ease at conjuring lightning from the arcane smithing of the cyclopes. They dislike the company of gods, though you may be better able to barter with them I we could. I have no idea where they live in the modern era, though if you intend to seek them out I suggest asking Gaea."

Great, yet another 'find the NPC' quest.

I nod. "Will do. Anything I can do to help you?"

"Seek out Olympians across the world and inform them of what has happened. Win them over, if you can." Two arms blur, molecule-printing… A book, into the space on his borrowed desk. "Here's a list of the names I know of and descriptions of their habits. Some you know, some you do not."

...Worse, a whole checklist of 'find the NPC' quests. At least he has a major advantage with his fast-travel abilities.

The print finished in seconds, and I drop the resulting tomb into subspace.

"Will do. Good luck with your new duties."

"I may well need it."

No undoing it now, Hephaestaean. I doubt Sparky was much happier than you are about the paperwork when he nobbled Cronus.

Such is the result of something like overthrowing a bad king: sorting out what happens after. Though even if he knew about this in advance, I doubt Phaeste would have said no to the upgrade, would he? At any rate, now there's a reasonably clear path for OL to follow up on concerning Captain Marvel. Let's hope he stops to check in with Cap before he goes haring off, just in case the Wizard has his own plans.

The print finished in seconds, and I drop the resulting tome into subspace.

Tense mismatch. So, 'finishes'?

Michael Vonica · Apr 19, 2022

Rather than just subjecting people to nightmares and madness, why not take it a step farther? Create an interactive dream based platform that allows people to meet through their dreams in some sort of nightmare realm. Or a shared augmented reality of madness that only the participants can see and interact with. Mimic real life server architecture to create the central shared realms for the thing, in order to fuse magic and technology, with Heph's assistance. Sure, there's the whole nightmares and madness aesthetic to it that might turn people away, but as long as it's fun and exciting enough, people will take part in it.

People already invest themselves so heavily into imaginary realities nowadays. What's not already crazy about that? Sprinkle some extra nightmares and madness on top, and it'll be perfect.

Handlewithcare · Apr 19, 2022

Damn, Hepheastaean. My god doing a great job!

Encouraging his employees without micromanaging!

And if he has AI style multi-tasking and molecular printing...Damn, think what he could offer to his worshippers, the ~~Mechanicus~~

I'm really looking forward to what the Pantheon will get up to

Z000 · Apr 19, 2022

and John Constatine continue to be on the loose as Paul busy dealing with random fire every where

Michael Vonica · Apr 19, 2022

Z000 said:
and John Constatine continue to be on the loose as Paul busy dealing with random fire every where

Think about how small of a nudge it took to get here. All that had to be done was getting Zeus a bit horny, and now Paul is stuck on this quest.

NightmareWarden · Apr 19, 2022

Darko said:
I'm seeing people putting her symbols or statues of her in movie theaters and praying to her for a little magic when a horror movie starts.

I'm imagining nonprofit organizations which seek to fight against some horror or another- a health problem, child abuse, immigration, intoxicated driving… And they offer a variety of services if you sign an agreement to experience a nightmare related to their cause, living in a victim's shoes or seeing parts of your life crumble due to the affliction. Perhaps a series of nightmares and a few notes on your reflections following them.

Has anyone read about a setup like this in any fiction before? I'm sure custom-order dreams have been written about, but this is a ways away from that.

Moving on- I still want to know the difference between Melinoë's Madness and what Dionysus can do, assuming his form isn't limited to intoxication and cravings for addictive substances.

Brainwasher-Boy · Apr 19, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
On the other hand, if she could break Crane of his little habit of testing his formulae on himself, or on other people without permission

Yeah, slight problem with that: Crane is an absolute junkie for fear, and screwed up his brain chemistry so bad with his fear toxin that he's become completely numb to it outside of Melinoë's magical influence. When we first saw him, if I remember correctly, he'd just about given up the will to live.

Asking him to stop experimenting on himself is tantamount to telling him to off himself

Darko · Apr 19, 2022

NightmareWarden said:
Moving on- I still want to know the difference between Melinoë's Madness and what Dionysus can do, assuming his form isn't limited to intoxication and cravings for addictive substances

Maybe Melinoes form of madness is more focused on fear, while Dionysus's focused on losing inhibitions.

Darko · Apr 19, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
If he can't, then the Wizard will have to make other arrangements

Zoat did say that Billy may temporarily use the power of the Wizards previous patron.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Let's hope he's amenable to revising his alias.

Unless he can't do it due to it potentially being mystically bound to him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
In other words, he'll see that all honest worshippers of the Olympians will be bound for Erebos

Yeah, they're going to need to do actual worship, like that Angel said.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Erebos? I bet the events of recent years have seen people reconsidering their choices.

Though most may be criminals looking to escape eternal suffering.

Chojin Patriarch said:
No undoing it now, Hephaestaean. I doubt Sparky was much happier than you are about the paperwork when he nobbled Cronus

Though Zeus probably ignored it.

Heoh may not ignore it since he's a hard worker and he wants to set a precedence for the gods actually doing their jobs.

rkyeun · Apr 19, 2022

You know where Melinoe would be great at? Reforming criminals. Person is found guilty of horribly crime. The court sentences them to the Path of Melinoe. Every time the criminal falls asleep, Melinoe grants them a visitation, where they come to associate their crime with horrors that prevent them from ever contemplating committing it again. Until such time as Melinoe feels they are rehabilitated and won't reoffend, at which point the nightmares end.
And no, before you ask, having a nightmare cannot be considered a cruel and unusual punishment. Too mild and commonplace to even qualify as a punishment.

Mr Zoat · Apr 19, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Tense mismatch. So, 'finishes'?

Thank you, corrected.

Vaermina · Apr 19, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Hephaestaean nods at Melinoë's description. 'Nightmares and Madness' is never going to be a super-popular domain, but there are things she could be doing with it that she isn't. Actually allowing cursing, for a start. I wasn't keen due to the fact that magic regulation is a sensitive enough topic already and I wanted her to at least be able to connect with some people, even if they were weirdoes like Dr. Crane.

There's also the fact that Curses corrupt the soul and turn a person evil...

Mr Zoat said:
"Seek out Olympians across the world and inform them of what has happened. Win them over, if you can." Two arms blur, molecule-printing… A book, into the space on his borrowed desk. "Here's a list of the names I know of and descriptions of their habits. Some you know, some you do not."

The print finishes in seconds, and I drop the resulting tome into subspace.

"Will do. Good luck with your new duties."

It sure is lucky that Mr Zoat completely removed Zeus's major personality trait of being spiteful.

Because otherwise he might have already contacted those Olympians and started to push for a full on rebellion.

Nervaqus987 · Apr 19, 2022

Vaermina said:
It sure is lucky that Mr Zoat completely removed Zeus's major personality trait of being spiteful.

Because otherwise he might have already contacted those Olympians and started to push for a full on rebellion.

1) He's currently mortal-ish, being stuck at "a weak avatar" level.

2) It's going to be real hard to motivate those Olympians to rebel against the guy who rocked up to Zeus in his throne room and slapped the taste out of his mouth, followed by gelding Ares.

3) The way this shit falls out in Greek mythology it's gonna be Hephaestaean's son that dethrones him, just like he did to his father, and Zeus did to Kronos who did to Ouranos.

Ciber · Apr 19, 2022

How I expect the Persephone problem to be solved:

You are Gods. You can afford to wait a bit longer while I consider the issue.
Set a deadline of 100 years to make a ruling.
Have those two judge gods study mortal legal systems & conflict mediation. The mortals may not be interested in them, but the gods are sure a contentious bunch that could use some skilled impartial mediators & could probably use some lawyers when interacting with mortal governments.
1. A hundred years is plenty of time to get law degrees in all the big countries.
2. Also have them spend time becoming licensed therapists & marriage counselors.
Form a majority vote triumvirate court system with the 2 judges and big Heph.
1. If both judges disagree with Heph then they can overrule him.
2. But usually they will take up roles of prosecutor & defender with Heph acting as judge.

Darko · Apr 19, 2022

rkyeun said:
You know where Melinoe would be great at? Reforming criminals. Person is found guilty of horribly crime. The court sentences them to the Path of Melinoe. Every time the criminal falls asleep, Melinoe grants them a visitation, where they come to associate their crime with horrors that prevent them from ever contemplating committing it again. Until such time as Melinoe feels they are rehabilitated and won't reoffend, at which point the nightmares end.
And no, before you ask, having a nightmare cannot be considered a cruel and unusual punishment. Too mild and commonplace to even qualify as a punishment.

Ann, no, it can be considered as cruel and unusual in this case.

It would be like that scene in A Clockwork Orange where Alex is forced to watch scenes of violence and is forced to associate them with pain.

If nightmares happened naturally and without outside influence, then they wouldn't be cruel and unusual.

In the example you gave these would be an outside force giving those nightmares.

If a person hits their head by accident on something then it's just an accident, but if someone hits them then that can be seen as cruel and unusual.

Nervaqus987 said:
1) He's currently mortal-ish, being stuck at "a weak avatar" level.

2) It's going to be real hard to motivate those Olympians to rebel against the guy who rocked up to Zeus in his throne room and slapped the taste out of his mouth, followed by gelding Ares

Plus given how Zeus tends to act, the chance that some of those gods have a grudge against him can be pretty high.

Heck, they may not even be all that powerful to do anything and the more powerful gods, like Poseidon, may not even help Zeus but try to take the throne for themselves.

Plus Zeus may not even know where they are.

Nervaqus987 said:
3) The way this shit falls out in Greek mythology it's gonna be Hephaestaean's son that dethrones him, just like he did to his father, and Zeus did to Kronos who did to Ouranos.

Heph is very smart so he may be able to bypass such a thing by either not having children, or by actually treating his kids with respect and dignity so that they don't decide to overthrow him.

I once read a worldbuilding story that expanded the universe if MLP to include things like gods and pantheons.

One of those pantheons was an expy of the Norse pantheon and they even had an expy of Loki who was adopted by the leader of that pantheon.

There were also expy's of those Shadowed Ones from Marvel comics that were behind a cycle of destruction and they used the previous iterations of the Loki expy to bring about destruction.

The previous iterations of the pantheon typically either bound the powers of the Loki expy, killed him, or belittled him, but seeing as that didn't work for them, the newest Odin expy decided that the best way to prevent the death if his family was by actually treating his son with love so that he doesn't decide to cause the apocalypse.

And it worked.

Maybe Heph could do something similar if he has kids.

dxdragon · Apr 19, 2022

Only main usage I can see for Melinoe growing in the modern world is to allow Creatives, aka Artists, Authors, and Filmmakers to voluntarily view Nightmares or experience Madness for a short period of time, to inspire them to create amazing works.

Darko · Apr 19, 2022

NightmareWarden said:
I'm imagining nonprofit organizations which seek to fight against some horror or another- a health problem, child abuse, immigration, intoxicated driving… And they offer a variety of services if you sign an agreement to experience a nightmare related to their cause, living in a victim's shoes or seeing parts of your life crumble due to the affliction. Perhaps a series of nightmares and a few notes on your reflections following them.

Has anyone read about a setup like this in any fiction before?

Well...kinda.

Duke Long · Apr 19, 2022

NightmareWarden said:
I'm imagining nonprofit organizations which seek to fight against some horror or another- a health problem, child abuse, immigration, intoxicated driving… And they offer a variety of services if you sign an agreement to experience a nightmare related to their cause, living in a victim's shoes or seeing parts of your life crumble due to the affliction. Perhaps a series of nightmares and a few notes on your reflections following them.

For some reason, what comes to mind when I read this is someone super evil doing this, and their newfound understanding of the horrific suffering that they inflict makes them enjoy inflicting it twice as much.

Mr Zoat · Apr 19, 2022

Duke Long said:
For some reason, what comes to mind when I read this is someone super evil doing this, and their newfound understanding of the horrific suffering that they inflict makes them enjoy inflicting it twice as much.

Yeah, that's what happened during a psychopath self help group therapy session IRL. They'd mostly been alright in prison up to that point, but they appeared to inspire each other.

Rafin · Apr 19, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Zeus derived his ease at conjuring lightning from the arcane smithing of the cyclopes. They dislike the company of gods, though you may be better able to barter with them than we could. I have no idea where they live in the modern era, though if you intend to seek them out I suggest asking Gaea.

Or you could just try J-U-P-I-T-E-R!

Senevri · Apr 19, 2022

Even with a divorce, Persephone still has to spend time in the underworld. Not sure how worth that's going to be. OTOH she's pretty tight with Hecate so...

Senevri · Apr 19, 2022

rkyeun said:
having a nightmare cannot be considered a cruel and unusual punishment.

Yeah no. You're waaay downplaying how bad nightmares can be, especially if they're every single night.

Darko · Apr 19, 2022

Senevri said:
Even with a divorce, Persephone still has to spend time in the underworld

If you're talking about the whole pomegranate seeds then that may not be the case here since according to Heph, that may have just been Hades impregnating her rather than her eating food from Erebos.

DougA · Apr 19, 2022

SHAJAM?

Ryumancer · Apr 19, 2022

Darko said:
Heph is very smart so he may be able to bypass such a thing by either not having children, or by actually treating his kids with respect and dignity so that they don't decide to overthrow him.

Or even just listening when complaints are levied against him, and either explaining his reasonings sufficiently to defuse complaint, or accepting that he may be wrong about something and fixing whatever the problem was. No need to get overthrown if you're actually willing to fix whatever made people want to overthrow you. Though of course, you'd also want to pair that with actually being a good parent; Phaeste may be more than a bit too swamped with work to raise a child for the time being anyways...

Coda · Apr 19, 2022

Massgamer said:
Do they have to adjust the whole 'be buried with a gold coin to pay the boatkeeper Charon to carry them' thing? I imagine Charon might want the help but he still wants to get paid.

It's entirely plausible that this was never a requirement in the first place and that the meaning of the tradition got miscommunicated over the generations. (The coins were likely a way to conceal eyes that were forced open by rictus.)

NightmareWarden said:
I'm imagining nonprofit organizations which seek to fight against some horror or another- a health problem, child abuse, immigration, intoxicated driving… And they offer a variety of services if you sign an agreement to experience a nightmare related to their cause, living in a victim's shoes or seeing parts of your life crumble due to the affliction. Perhaps a series of nightmares and a few notes on your reflections following them.

Has anyone read about a setup like this in any fiction before? I'm sure custom-order dreams have been written about, but this is a ways away from that.

Pale has Alpeana, a spirit of nightmares. Her duty is to give bad dreams to humans that need to experience guilt (because they did something bad) or fear (to protect them from a possible danger (EDIT: or to help them process experiences)).

When she's not otherwise busy doing that, she has been helping the protagonists by giving them shared nightmares; they're disturbing and scary, but it gives them the ability to privately discuss things during the night in a way that's extremely difficult to interfere with from the outside and that isn't limited by them not being able to be in the same place in person.

It even works to help them connect with spirits that have communication problems by talking directly to a representation of their inner thoughts instead of having to deal with their lack of verbal communication in the physical world.

Vaermina · Apr 19, 2022

Nervaqus987 said:
1) He's currently mortal-ish, being stuck at "a weak avatar" level.

Only if he chooses to be... Or well... Zoat writes him to be a complete idiot...

Zeus is the oldest of the Olympians, and has been living under the threat of prophecy saying he would be overthrown for thousands of years. There's no way he doesn't know a dozen ways to get his power back, have dozen's of "power" caches stashed away around the world, and have thousand's of favor's he could call in with other Pantheons.

2) It's going to be real hard to motivate those Olympians to rebel against the guy who rocked up to Zeus in his throne room and slapped the taste out of his mouth, followed by gelding Ares.

That guy is attempting to make them work after a thousand year long paid vacation.

Coda · Apr 19, 2022

Vaermina said:
Zeus is the oldest of the Olympians, and has been living under the threat of prophecy saying he would be overthrown for thousands of years. There's no way he doesn't know a dozen ways to get his power back, have dozen's of "power" caches stashed away around the world, and have thousand's of favor's he could call in with other Pantheons.

Vae... a counterpoint: As you rightly point out, Zeus isn't stupid. Grabbing a power cache and pulling favors might restore some power, but he knows fully well that attempting to retake Olympus by force is going to end very badly for him. This is doubly true if he's only able to reclaim a portion of his power, and pulling favors additionally adds cross-pantheon politics to the problem. (Who's going to want to be on the wrong side of the guy that just overthrew Zeus and crushed Ares?)

Bud-E · Apr 19, 2022

Mr Zoat How does Aphrodite fit into your explanation about Titans? She's the daughter of two primordials Gaea and Ouranos (Which means she's of the Titan generation) but as far as we've seen she is just as powerful as the average Olympian and was never as alien as the Titans were described as being. Did something happen to make her more God and less Titan? Or is her origin in this universe different?

Stsword · Apr 19, 2022

Bud-E said:
Mr Zoat How does Aphrodite fit into your explanation about Titans? She's the daughter of two primordials Gaea and Ouranos (Which means she's of the Titan generation) but as far as we've seen she is just as powerful as the average Olympian and was never as alien as the Titans were described as being. Did something happen to make her more God and less Titan? Or is her origin in this universe different?

Homer has her as the daughter of Zeus and Dione.

It's also possible she's Astarte who jumped ship after her original pantheon got tired of her antics, since there's those who believe that Aphrodite is the result of the hellenization of Astarte worship.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Connoisseur.

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Dragons Are Romance

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