With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Flightless Man]

Zoat explained that.
.

Click to shrink...

I'm really hoping it goes the route of having a seperate room/house. I feel like Persephone should realize how good of a deal she got compared to everyone else and do a "stay together for the kids" kind of sham thing. Maybe even have her move up to Themyscira (since it's right at the gates to Hades' realm.).

Only way I really am interested in it going the full on divorce route, is if Persephone ends up with Heph (but I would NEED to see at least a couple chapters of that love story).

 

[Darko]

I feel like Persephone should realize how good of a deal she got compared to everyone else and do a "stay together for the kids" kind of sham thing.

Click to shrink...

I don't think she'll be satisfied with that, plus their children are all adults, so it may not affect them too negatively.

Only way I really am interested in it going the full on divorce route, is if Persephone ends up with Heph (but I would NEED to see at least a couple chapters of that love story).

Click to shrink...

I highly doubt that that's going to happen.

 

[Bud-E]

Now that Hera's dating I kinda want to see more of it is she a thousand years out of practice or does her domain keep her abreast of modern courtship?

 

[Flightless Man]

I don't think she'll be satisfied with that, plus their children are all adults, so it may not affect them too negatively.
I highly doubt that that's going to happen.

Click to shrink...

True, I just don't want more of the same. If this turns into another standard divorce, it just feels kind of tacked on.

Maybe she get's Hades to travel the world with her for her alloted time with Demeter? And seeing the post above mine, Maybe with Hera encouraging Peersephone to give the relationship a real chance. Since Hades was one of the good ones. So they have an actual dating period?

 

[liger0]

So, talking about looking for weather/thunder gods to replace Zeus, I found one that was close by:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zibelthiurdos

He's part of the Thracian pantheon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_religion

Considering that he's probably been out of work since before the rise of Christianity, he may have the time to act as a patron.

 

[Doccer]

No, it's the lack of a 'Y' chromosome.

Click to shrink...

Couldn't Paul just make out of their genetics?
The way that was phrased, and with what you just said right now, it sounds like Io could do it with what tech her god will be providing her she could have a son. Yet the most advanced omni-tool in the universe can't synthesize a Y chromosome?

"You said 'daughter'. Through Hephaestaean, you have access to advanced reproductive technologies. When I help two women have a child the child is always a girl, but in your position-."

Click to shrink...

 

[Siiracai The Supernal]

No, it's the lack of a 'Y' chromosome.

Click to shrink...

I feel the need to note that it is possible for a female human to be born with an X and a Y chromosome, so there could be Amazons able to have a boy through Paragon's method.

 

[nobodez]

I feel the need to note that it is possible for a female human to be born with an X and a Y chromosome, so there could be Amazons able to have a boy through Paragon's method.

Click to shrink...

Also, there are men that have two X chromosomes. I mean, biology is pretty messy at the best of times.

 

[Ganurath]

Then why are the three goddess specifically described as 'virgins' the only ones that never had children or (arguably) any romantic/sexual relationships whatsoever?

Click to shrink...

It's speculated that the word used may have also... been a way of referring to a lesbian without explicitly acknowledging the orientation.

 

[Coda]

The way that was phrased, and with what you just said right now, it sounds like Io could do it with what tech her god will be providing her she could have a son. Yet the most advanced omni-tool in the universe can't synthesize a Y chromosome?

Click to shrink...

I think it probably COULD synthesize one, if he wanted it to. The problem is that the genetics of that chromosome wouldn't be derived from either parent. (And as a smaller side issue, only one parent would be contributing an X chromosome.) Given that OL wants to help the women of Themyscira have natural children, his process just throws together the chromosomes from the gametes without doing any other modifications. Substituting a Y chromosome would involve him making a choice about which X chromosome to keep as well as what genes to include on that Y chromosome, which means the child would be carrying genes that didn't come from his parents -- making him ever so slightly less the child of his parents.

But if the parents employ advanced technology created by their own people, then the parents have that control instead of OL. Those decisions would be made by the parents instead of by a third party, restoring a piece of that sense of parentage that would have been missing.

OL is, of course, also intentionally holding back, because he wants humanity to build their own technology. He doesn't want to withhold fertility support entirely, because he cares about the people of Themyscira and their ability to have families, but he's using the minimum necessary intervention. He's encouraging them to improve humanity's technological base if they want something more.

 

[FourthPear]

It's speculated that the word used may have also... been a way of referring to a lesbian without explicitly acknowledging the orientation.

Click to shrink...

That makes sense. Why didn't you say that the first time?

 

[Ganurath]

That makes sense. Why didn't you say that the first time?

Click to shrink...

I wanted to go bed.

 

[Pinklestia]

While it's a nice metaphor that makes quite a bot of sense, I'm not seeing how that would have forced her to spend three to six months per year in the Underworld.

Click to shrink...

It was a legal settlement?

 

[PDV]

"I mean, Jupiter put it about just as much as Zeus, right?"

Click to shrink...

Come on and slam, and welcome to SHAJAM!

Pretty sure he kept the bad stuff that Ares did, which is why Heph and the Amazons dislike him.

Click to shrink...

Historically, no one liked Ares. He symbolized everything awful about war, the kind of god where you pray "may [Olympus] bless and keep [him]... far away from us". Soldiers and generals would thank Athena or Apollo for success or ask them for guidance, never Ares. Not even Sparta wanted Ares around, and they had contempt for everything in life other than brutal hand-to-hand combat.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

"Not without breaking my word to Zeus and granting someone else his station. What steps have you taken?"

Click to shrink...

Ok, this and other things like it recently have been bothering me.
Previously, you established godly domains and portfolios aren't jobs, or perks that come with the job.
Which was the main reason Heph was not the god of technology, despite no one else having that position in the pantheon. Can't remember if it was him or Vulcan that was working as a high end car mechanic, but that didn't give him any additional abitities.

Zeus wasn't the most powerful because he was king; he was king because he was most powerful.
He couldn't control weather because he was the god of the sky; he was the god of the sky because he could control weather.

It there a whole thing recently where they had to go through a whole bunch of hoops to 'change the station' of Heph, because divine portfolios weren't occupations you could get hired to or fired from.

So like, WTF, dude?

And the chapter before that, he wanted to remove the nightmare and madness muse as a judge of the dead because her divine portfolio didn't give her any special 'judgy' abilities? Which is sort of stupid idea to put in Hephs head, when he had personal experience a doing stuff beyond his portfolio. Centuries worth, and the cutting edge of technology marched beyond the portfolio he was born with.

And also, you don't consider the ability to see that the nightmares of petitioners you are judging are? Or what their mental fracture points, or where they deviate from what is considered a 'normal, sane' psyche? I mean OL can and has gained a lot of insight into the character of a person from being able to knew their desires. I assuming being goddess of nightmares would give similar character insight from detection and analysis of what they are afraid of.

Something very useful for someone sitting in judgment of that person. And who isn't going to be very popular among the usual living population.

Again, WTF?

EDIT:

Come on and slam, and welcome to SHAJAM!

Click to shrink...

Ok. Lets just rip off the band-aid, admit that we think OL should be using that chance to perform a power-up on the infrastructure empowering the Marvel Family as long as they are tinkering with it, and go shopping for gods to full out a more 'syllabic' word.

Shamalamadingdong maybe, or supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Add in enough gods there is some redundancy, and allow more Marvels to be empowered without reducing their individual power to much.

 

[Ryumancer]

Ok, this and other things like it recently have been bothering me.
EDIT:

Ok. Lets just rip off the band-aid, admit that we think OL should be using that chance to perform a power-up on the infrastructure empowering the Marvel Family as long as they are tinkering with it, and go shopping for gods to full out a more 'syllabic' word.

Shamalamadingdong maybe, or supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Add in enough gods there is some redundancy, and allow more Marvels to be empowered without reducing their individual power to much.

Click to shrink...

And this is why the wizard doesn't want OL learning the spell and how it actually does what it does lol

 

[Darko]

Can't remember if it was him or Vulcan that was working as a high end car mechanic, but that didn't give him any additional abitities.

Click to shrink...

It was Vulcan znd he seemed to at least sense how cars functioned.

So like, WTF, dude?

Click to shrink...

It's possible that Heph could give Zeus's abilities to someone else on the same way he got his new powers.

So like, WTF, dude?

And the chapter before that, he wanted to remove the nightmare and madness muse as a judge of the dead because her divine portfolio didn't give her any special 'judgy' abilities? Which is sort of stupid idea to put in Hephs head, when he had personal experience a doing stuff beyond his portfolio. Centuries worth, and the cutting edge of technology marched beyond the portfolio he was born with.

And also, you don't consider the ability to see that the nightmares of petitioners you are judging are? Or what their mental fracture points, or where they deviate from what is considered a 'normal, sane' psyche? I mean OL can and has gained a lot of insight into the character of a person from being able to knew their desires. I assuming being goddess of nightmares would give similar character insight from detection and analysis of what they are afraid of.

Something very useful for someone sitting in judgment of that person. And who isn't going to be very popular among the usual living population.

Again, WTF

Click to shrink...

Maybe Heph just didn't think of that.

He's sorta new to the whole ruling thing.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ok, this and other things like it recently have been bothering me.
Previously, you established godly domains and portfolios aren't jobs, or perks that come with the job.
Which was the main reason Heph was not the god of technology, despite no one else having that position in the pantheon. Can't remember if it was him or Vulcan that was working as a high end car mechanic, but that didn't give him any additional abitities.

Zeus wasn't the most powerful because he was king; he was king because he was most powerful.
He couldn't control weather because he was the god of the sky; he was the god of the sky because he could control weather.

It there a whole thing recently where they had to go through a whole bunch of hoops to 'change the station' of Heph, because divine portfolios weren't occupations you could get hired to or fired from.

So like, WTF, dude?

Click to shrink...

I'm not completely sure what the question is here because what you wrote is a bit rambly, but I think it's 'how did Zeus stop being Weather God?'. That's simple: he currently isn't a god. Hephaestaean brute force disconnected him.

And the chapter before that, he wanted to remove the nightmare and madness muse as a judge of the dead because her divine portfolio didn't give her any special 'judgy' abilities? Which is sort of stupid idea to put in Hephs head, when he had personal experience a doing stuff beyond his portfolio. Centuries worth, and the cutting edge of technology marched beyond the portfolio he was born with.

Click to shrink...

Hephaestaean wants gods active in the areas where they have greatest skill. Melinoë can act as judge, but isn't really any better at it than a trained mortal.

And also, you don't consider the ability to see that the nightmares of petitioners you are judging are? Or what their mental fracture points, or where they deviate from what is considered a 'normal, sane' psyche? I mean OL can and has gained a lot of insight into the character of a person from being able to knew their desires. I assuming being goddess of nightmares would give similar character insight from detection and analysis of what they are afraid of.

Click to shrink...

No, it's actually pretty narrow.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

I'm not completely sure what the question is here because what you wrote is a bit rambly, but I think it's 'how did Zeus stop being Weather God?'. That's simple: he currently isn't a god. Hephaestaean brute force disconnected him.

Click to shrink...

Ok, what?

To my knowledge, in this story, what the layman calls a soul is what a Malthusan would call a 'Arcane Construct'
A bundle of magic of various affinities shaped into a pattern that is you. As in (to quote Dresden Files) 'you wear your body; you are your soul'

Zeus was a soul that was much larger and more complex than a regular humans soul. So much so that he doesn't really exist in the physical realm? Where gods don't have 'bodies' so much as they have 'avatars' which are more like remote relays on Earth remotely operated from the actual god residing in the thaumosphere. Which is why the avatars power is limited by Faith. More locally present worship acts as a medium for a better connection, allowing more power transmission?

With that system (as I understand it from my read of past story events) being in place, 'brute force disconnecting him' just doesn't make sense, any more than those B movie Frankenstein movies I've watched on Svengali recently that talk about just swapping out his brain like it is no big deal.

Disconnecting Zeus from his soul, when Zeus is his soul, WTF. I mean last episode be learned the first power-up (permanently taking arcane 'matter' from Aether to graft onto himself) sounded like some horrific soul surgery. Taking pieces of Aether's core being to staple onto Zeus. And dangerous enough it ended up killing the donor. Not something you can brute force at all.

Maybe someone with a lot of knowledge and skill could some sort of Fringe (TV series) magical lobotomy on Zeus to cut away his powers but leave the remainder cohesive to still have a personality, but that sounds really out there.

...Or are you saying this sort of thing is easy because the power is actually some sort of magical MANTLE that can be taken off of someone and then tossed onto someone else like a coat? That Help took Zeus's MANTLE of divinity from him turning him into a regular human soul (arcane construct), and could then give that MANTLE to someone else, allowing them to MANTLE Zeus and become the new Greek Sky God?

Is that really how we're rolling now, Future Zoat? Is this some plan to generate free power by making Past 'there are NO Mantles in WTR' Zoat spin in his grave at ever more ludicrous speeds? Explain to me what I'm missing here?

 

[Mastigos2]

Zeus was a soul that was much larger and more complex than a regular humans soul. So much so that he doesn't really exist in the physical realm? Where gods don't have 'bodies' so much as they have 'avatars' which are more like remote relays on Earth remotely operated from the actual god residing in the thaumosphere. Which is why the avatars power is limited by Faith. More locally present worship acts as a medium for a better connection, allowing more power transmission?

Click to shrink...

I think Heph just sort of locked Zeus's avatar into "on" mode and took away Zeus's ability to interact with anything except the avatar. Kind of like an SAO nervegear type thing.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Doesn't Zeus literally turn Poseidon and Apollo into mortals in the myths?

 

[Prognostic Hannya]

Zoat do you have any pictures of Haphaestean? Bc otherwise I'm just going to keep picturing him as Mecha-Hermes.

Spoiler

 

[Signaller]

Maybe what Heph did to Zeus is analogous to what the Qwa Matter explosion did to OL, separating his aspects into fragments?

 

[Siiracai The Supernal]

Hephaestean disconnected Zeus from the Titans powering him, and took over the position of king. Then he used his exponentially greater power, combined with his new title and the fact that he 'dominated' Zeus (like we have seen with the New Gods in the Renegade track) to lock the conscious part of Zeus into a mortal avatar, without access to his domain and greater powers. He is physically stronger and more durable than baseline humans, but is limited (by my understanding) to a strength similar to or lesser than what the Amazon daughters of Herakles can manage. Nothing was done to Zeus' core self, he was just set to what is effectively a child lock for a juvenile delinquent.

Edit;
I feel the need to note that this is all just my understanding of it, but the point is that it is still Zeus' power and self, he is just incapable of accessing the former.

 

[Vaermina]

Ok, what?

To my knowledge, in this story, what the layman calls a soul is what a Malthusan would call a 'Arcane Construct'
A bundle of magic of various affinities shaped into a pattern that is you. As in (to quote Dresden Files) 'you wear your body; you are your soul'

Zeus was a soul that was much larger and more complex than a regular humans soul. So much so that he doesn't really exist in the physical realm? Where gods don't have 'bodies' so much as they have 'avatars' which are more like remote relays on Earth remotely operated from the actual god residing in the thaumosphere. Which is why the avatars power is limited by Faith. More locally present worship acts as a medium for a better connection, allowing more power transmission?

With that system (as I understand it from my read of past story events) being in place, 'brute force disconnecting him' just doesn't make sense, any more than those B movie Frankenstein movies I've watched on Svengali recently that talk about just swapping out his brain like it is no big deal.

Disconnecting Zeus from his soul, when Zeus is his soul, WTF. I mean last episode be learned the first power-up (permanently taking arcane 'matter' from Aether to graft onto himself) sounded like some horrific soul surgery. Taking pieces of Aether's core being to staple onto Zeus. And dangerous enough it ended up killing the donor. Not something you can brute force at all.

Maybe someone with a lot of knowledge and skill could some sort of Fringe (TV series) magical lobotomy on Zeus to cut away his powers but leave the remainder cohesive to still have a personality, but that sounds really out there.

...Or are you saying this sort of thing is easy because the power is actually some sort of magical MANTLE that can be taken off of someone and then tossed onto someone else like a coat? That Help took Zeus's MANTLE of divinity from him turning him into a regular human soul (arcane construct), and could then give that MANTLE to someone else, allowing them to MANTLE Zeus and become the new Greek Sky God?

Is that really how we're rolling now, Future Zoat? Is this some plan to generate free power by making Past 'there are NO Mantles in WTR' Zoat spin in his grave at ever more ludicrous speeds? Explain to me what I'm missing here?

Click to shrink...

What happened with Zeus was an author hand wave.

Don't try and make sense of it.

 

[Prince Charon]

And yes, that's true. However, Mysteries just sounds cooler.

Click to shrink...

I think Paul may have been objecting to Io calling the world outside of Themiscyra 'Man's World,' or calling science 'the artifice of Man's World' (hence specifically reminding her that Paula Von Gunter was a woman), but I may be misunderstanding any he did mean that Io calling science a cult was annoying.

 

[Mr Zoat]

28th October 2012
17:42 GMT +3

"Paul, sit down there-" Menalippe points to an upholstered chair in the small drawing room she's led me to. "-and take off your rings."

I sit down, but hesitate on removing my rings.

"I don't speak much Themysciran Greek, and your English isn't anything like perfect. Taking off my rings introduces an opportunity for miscommunication."

"I understand. I want you to take them off anyway."

Due diligence scans… Clear. I shrug, take off first Hinon's custom ring and then Larfleeze's first ring and then lean down to lay them both on the floor. And then I take a deep breath in through my nose. One of the nice things about Themyscira is that there hasn't been enough industrial development for taking off the rings to worsen the quality of the air I'm breathing. Some parts get a bit wiffy when they're cleaning out the sewers, but that's not a problem at the moment.

"Are any gods dead?"

She's got a strong accent, but she's clearly been attending language classes. Amazons have had time to learn more languages but they haven't really had the opportunity until recently. And the languages they have been learning sound very strange to speakers from other parts of the world due to linguistic drift and the lack of native speakers to communicate with.

"No."

"Have any titans been released?"

"Yes, Metis."

"Metis has been released from Zeus's body?"

"Hephaestaean broke open his forehead."

"And the roles of the gods. Has that changed?"

"Ares has been removed from his position as God of War and is now God of Eunuchs. The position of God of War is now open. Zeus has been suspended from his position of God of Weather. Hephaestaean is now God of Technology and Artifice, which encompasses and expands upon his previous role. So far there have been no other changes."

"Ritual observances. Have those changed?"

Amazons don't pray to Ares.

"I suggest making a bigger thing of the Hephaesteia. Use it as a time for teaching reluctant Amazons to use unfamiliar machinery."

"Who will be the new God of War?"

"Hephaestaean suggested Queen Hippolyta or Kratos."

"Queen Hippolyta would not want it. Kratos may. I do not know."

"How about Athena?"

"Lady Athena is a strategist. She might be capable of fulfilling the role, but I doubt that she could ever have the bloodlust that Ares possesses."

"Is that bloodlust essential?"

"That, or something like it. Lady Athena speaks into the ears of generals as Goddess of Strategy. Ares rouses the blood of warriors. The outlook is quite different. Kratos was known for his willingness to use brute force for Zeus. Athena is different."

No. If that's a requirement, she won't. And neither would Queen Hippolyta.

"Why did you want to talk to me in private?"

"Because we know that you bring chaos, that you love Prince Kon and Princess Diana, and that you are a deadly enemy. I was worried that you might have gone to war with all Olympus. Many Amazons were worried that you might do that. Now, I can calm them."

"Okay, but why did you want me to take off my rings?"

"They are a symbol of the avarice spirit. I think it proper that you not speak to her while we talk."

"Ah, okay, but that wouldn't actually stop me. Our souls are bound together."

"Then it just makes it clear to you. And it will remind you that you are mortal. What other changes can we expect?"

I think this is something from Amazon culture that I don't understand. Move on. "Hephaestaean will have a more active role in the world."

"When Io and Thana both left Themyscira at their gods' command, we knew that other gods might also make that command. We have accepted the idea."

"Erichthonius and Io are turning Baroness von Gunther's old workshop into a new temple, and will probably expect more Amazons to make an effort with expanding their horizons."

"I can work to encourage that."

"Does Zeus have a cult here?"

"Not any more. The few Amazons that prayed to him did so… In the hope that he would make them pregnant. That no longer happens."

I nod. With the weather here guaranteed and with his moral lessons frankly dubious, there wasn't any obvious reason for one to exist. But it's worth checking. I get-.

No. Wait.

"How will this affect how Amazons feel about me?"

"Most women don't know enough about what you have done today to have decided how they feel. We expect demigod heroes to do great things, but this…"

I nod. "Right. That's fair." I stand, calling my rings back to my fingers. "If anyone wants to know where I am, I'm tracking down every Olympian in order to pass on a message from Hephaestaean."

"What message is that?"

"That he expects them to start pulling their weight. Excuse me."

Hand to forehead and

I'm standing in the forest of Themyscira, not too far from the first place I met Gaea. Quite some distance from the actual sacred grove that forms her temple, but she's the Titaness of Earth. I'm sure that she can manage.

I kneel, laying the palms of my hands on the bare earth.

"Gaea, mother of all that lives, I would really appreciate it if you could tell me where I could find the cyclopes. I need to commission some work from them, and they seem to have ducked everyone's detection."

"And you hope that they kept me up to date."

I bow my head as Gaea walks out of the greenery. Or rather her current human-seeming avatar does, I suppose.

"Yes."

"You do not seek conflict with them? You have gotten rather good at conflict."

"That's not what I want from them. I mean, if it turns out that they've been grinding bones to make bread, there will be conflict."

"No, they have not. You may find them on Mount Fuji. The Gods of Japan have taken to commissioning pieces from them."

"Thank you. I shall remain peaceful if at all possible."

"See that you do. And please, spend more time with Euanthe. She does not understand the power that she has won without you."

"I will. Thank you again."

 

[Massgamer]

"No, they have not. You may find them on Mount Fuji. The Gods of Japan have taken to commissioning pieces from them."

Click to shrink...

Oh, will Paul finally be meeting members of other pantheons now? Wonder how they will take news of a more active Greek pantheon.

Shinto is much more prevalent and has survived the years much more than old Greek worship, but still a minority compared to Abrahamic religions and rare outside of homeland. They might not mind the latter so much, but I am sure they would like it if the people of their homeland worshipped them more.

 

[Darko]

"I don't speak much Themysciran Greek, and your English isn't anything like perfect. Taking off my rings introduces an opportunity for miscommunication

Click to shrink...

You can probably just quickly create a universal translator.

Due diligence scans… Clear. I

Click to shrink...

For mundane dangers, sure, but maybe not clear for magical ones.

"Ares has been removed from his position as God of War and is now God of Eunuchs

Click to shrink...

That will probably get a few laughs from the Amazons.

Ritual observances. Have those changed?"

Amazons don't pray to Ares.

Click to shrink...

Though they may now visit his temple to laugh.

No. If that's a requirement, she won't. And neither would Queen Hippolyta

Click to shrink...

Hippolyta may be capable of doing it, though she'd probably try to make them more restrained.

I nod. With the weather here guaranteed and with his moral lessons frankly dubious, there wasn't any obvious reason for one to exist

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Demeter may have probably handled the weather.

You have got rather good at conflict."

Click to shrink...

'gotten rather'

"That's not what I want from them. I mean, if it turns out that they've been grinding bones to make bread, there will be conflict

Click to shrink...

Well that cyclops that tried to become God probably did that.

Though Lucifer killed him.

"No, they have not. You may find them on Mount Fuji. The Gods of Japan have taken to commissioning pieces from them

Click to shrink...

Either they appreciate fine craftsmanship, or it's part of their whole acquiring things to make themselves powerful thing.

Hopefully Paul doesn't have to visit them since I doubt he'd be willing to spend walking through a demon infested desert without his rings for several days.

 

[Bud-E]

"See that you do. And please, spend more time with Euanthe. She does not understand the power that she has won without you."

Click to shrink...

What does that mean? What does Euanthe think her new powers mean versus what they actually are?