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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Old Bruce is my favourite, so I really hope we get more Batman Beyond-era chapters x3
 
Oh man I love Peter Wynn. Would love to get more of this and other universes. Both Paragon and Renegade feel like they spin their wheels a bit. A lot of nothing happens with chapters being mostly padding.
 
Fun to see this episode mentioned. It's the furry talking, but it always felt like a missed opportunity: there's a lot of fascinating human enhancement questions that get pushed aside in favor of a glorified steroid PSA.

Mr Zoat said:
Given that the cure is very much not licensed to be used in the way that it was, I suppose that the SI would have to refer that part of things to the FDA?
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You've got some room to play around with, since the law of the 2030s Beyondverse may not be the law of today's real world, but the FDA's power to limit administration of a cleared medicine or procedure is much more limited than its ability to regulate production or advertising of such. Individual doctors and pharmacists can (and in the real world do!) give drugs for 'off-label' uses that the FDA has not cleared, and enforcement and regulation usually falls more to state regulatory boards (or police). Some of Cuvier claims during news stories flirted pretty heavily with the sort of thing the FDA's would slap down, but that's not really a claim you could bring against Gotham police.

Similarly, courts have a surprisingly wide power to medicate defendants when necessary; while Sell v US put some limits on forced medication, the criminal splicers almost certainly hit them all. Cuvier, if he survived, obviously wouldn't be able to face a courtroom or be contained as a blob monster, but the gang splicers would have a lot of overlap with schizophrenia in the 'uncontrollable impulse' sense given both what we see here and the later Joker hyena-splicer. With the limits of court-ordered psych evaluation, probably even if the gang members were just predisposed to violence rather than driven to it by the splicing like McGinnis nearly was.

A ban on "being spliced", rather than against new splicing... be complicated. Sell requires a per-defendant analysis by judges, and the courts have a messy relationship with pure status crimes. Might be more plausible given the whole supervillain thing (and maybe Boss Smiley, if he's present and unchecked in that universe?).

That said, the intellectual property question may be hard. In-show, Cuvier insisted that splicing was reversible, and had submitted his drugs for clinical trials. Even if he'd stolen PaulTech, that's just add to Cuvier's crimes in the manufacturing, rather than be given obvious ways to get money or the drugs back from Gotham police (though it could tie it up in courts long enough to talk sense into people).

Chaoswind said:
I think there may be two violations. The technology to make people into hybrids and the cure. The first one can probably be fought in court and will be an uphill battle, the second is probably a proprietary technology under patent that the US government just violated. I think the government can get away with it if emergency related powers were invoked, if not then Peters company is owed a sizeable payday.
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Even under state emergency powers laws, the US federal takings clause applies: private property can't be used for public use, without due compensation. There's some exceptions you can drive a truck through, though. If the splicing 'recovery' drugs were taken from Cuvier's legal possession (even if they were really PaulTech!), there's a lot of ways this could be treated as part of Cuvier's crimes or proceeds thereof, and similar to how police can take, destroy, or resell a firearm used as part of a criminal act, there's a lot of space relevant here.
 
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Spoilers for Batman Beyond / JLU and Theory based on it

So...the Splicing Tech used to bolt animal DNA onto a human....hmmm. Sounds pretty close to the same DNA tech that Cadmas / Old Waller would have needed to pull off the 'Rewrite Reproductive DNA of Terry's Dad to a copy of Bruce's. In the OG verse the tech is very likely to be related, and if so, in this setting it may be that Terry himself may owe Peter and Co for his existance. While it's never said openly, their is some logic and implications in the fact that Terry's Father divorced his mother after not one, but two of 'their' children came out with dark hair that neither parent had. '
 
So wanted to ask, some chapters ago Paul talked to a.. I want to say priestess of Apollo about burying the hatchet so he can get some healing but I got to ask, does Asclepius and his daughters not exist in this universe?
 
MadMarx420 said:
So wanted to ask, some chapters ago Paul talked to a.. I want to say priestess of Apollo about burying the hatchet so he can get some healing but I got to ask, does Asclepius and his daughters not exist in this universe?
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Even if they did, they may not want to heal him since it was their father/grandfather that cursed him, so they may not want to anger him.
 
Reconstruction (part 7)
  • Threadmarks
    • 5th March 2013
    07:23 GMT +3

    I fly over-

    "Paul!"

    -Shiruta on the way to my appointment with Adom, slowing as Amon flies up to greet me.

    "Amon, how are you?"

    He slows down as he reaches me, and… I glance down, following his gaze as he looks at the people below us. People who are bowing in his direction or making other genuflections. I can see… Not just the hope, but there's an association with… Sagacity. They've come to revere him.

    He glances sideways at me, noticing that I've noticed.

    "It is… Strange. Before, my brother was the focus of our people's awe. And now I am." He sort of shrinks in on himself for a moment. "Almost as much."

    "Do you find it unpleasant?"

    "Adom… He could do little during the crisis because he was fighting to keep the misery from our people. They could not see what he was doing. For-. For a day, when he needed to speak to the leaders of our neighbouring countries, I offered to take over for him."

    "How did it go?"

    "I… I lived, but it…" He shakes his head. "I do not think that I could keep doing it for as long as he did." … "No. I know I could not."

    "You survived Intergang."

    "I had an enemy when I survived Intergang. With this, all you have is your own thoughts. I could survive for myself, but I could not have shielded everyone else."

    I shrug. "That's why we call him 'Mighty One'. You've got a few decades to measure up all the way. And don't sell yourself too short; I know that Mannheim sent Justifiers after you on several occasions."

    "They were slaves, like I was." He shakes his head. "I cannot take pride in defeating them."

    "'Defeating'?"

    "I killed-. Some. But once we learned what they were, I-. I tried to save them. I tried to take off their helmets, disarm them…" He looks over towards… A maximum security prison? "When the White God appeared, we-."

    "White God?"

    "It was white like milk, and it looked like a god?" He looks uncertain. "What was it?"

    "It's something that I'm trying to avoid thinking about. I've heard it being called 'the White God' before. Did-"

    "Oh."

    "-you come up with the name?"

    "No, it was on the internet. But it.. makes sense."

    "It hasn't spoken to anyone around here has it?"

    "I don't think so. Should it?"

    "We… Effectively used its power to remove the Anti-Life. I owe it a great deal-."

    "If it did that, then we all owe it."

    "Not in the sense of a general obligation. I mean in the sense of 'you will now do this or I will reverse what my power wrought'. It might not given that it just turned up at the end, but since it was my decision I'd rather it be me who pays."

    He smiles. "If you wish. How is the rest of the world?"

    "Oh, good grief. Between politicians getting Anti-Lifed or killing themselves or both, governments are bodged together where they exist at all. And the legitimacy of the ones that do exist is basically non-existent but the League and Company are too busy getting basic infrastructure working to worry about it. And it's… Especially a concern in places where we're… Frankly not sure if we want to put their government back together."

    He nods. "My brother has… He has expressed certain views about some of our recent allies."

    "Shape up or ship out?"

    "In slightly more words."

    "He's always impressed me with how moderate he's prepared to be, and how open about it he is. I prefer it his way to lying about it."

    "Some of those he intended to exile have asked to do penance instead. They were… Moved by the White God, who they think was an angel." He frowns. "Was it an angel?"

    "I'm trying to avoid characterising it. If it's spurring them to better themselves then I doubt that the Silver City will complain." I raise my left eyebrow. "Are you forming some sort of North African Union?"

    He shrugs. "Perhaps. Many countries were interested in receiving the blessing of Isis, and Adom is far stronger than any of the superheroes in the region. We were simply negotiating trading and defence agreements before the Anti-Life. But as I said, everyone knows that Adom was keeping it from touching them and that I was leading our defence. I think that we are the leading partner. Except-."

    "Except?"

    "Israel is not interested. Our relationship with them is not… Bad, not compared to Lebanon. But the Jews have taken a harder line against 'pagan magic' than most Muslims. They do not like my brother or my sister or me."

    "I'm not sure how welcome they would have been with your other allies anyway."

    "They would not have been. But I like to think that we could all become friends eventually."

    "So you don't really need any Justice League help?"

    "No. We can feed ourselves easily thanks to my sister, and we can make all of the electricity that we need. We have some infrastructure projects that it would be nice to have help with, but compared to the rest of the world our needs are small. Is..? That what you came to ask?"

    "Partially. With everything that's happened… Superman is thinking about using kryptonian technology to… Improve somewhere. I thought that we could talk Adom into letting us work on an impoverished area of Kahndaq, but if everything here is basically fine that would probably be a waste of time."

    "Yes, but…" He looks thoughtful for a moment. "Have you heard of Tynanda?"

    "Yes."

    "The country collapsed under the effect of the Anti-Life. My brother extended his power there, but there is no government to organise things. No government which could authorise us moving in to help people. Some Tynandans have come here to ask us to, but my brother has hesitated."

    "I understand. He doesn't want to look like an opportunistic warlord."

    "I do not know what Superman intends, but I do not think that he could make the situation worse. They have little infrastructure as it is."

    "I'll take a look. Thank you for the suggestion."

    "You..? Cannot stay for breakfast?"

    "I'm sorry, but we've covered what I wanted to talk to Adom about and with everything else that's happening..."

    "I understand." He nods. "Perhaps when things are more calm?"

    "Thank you. I would like that."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    He slows down as he reaches me, and… I glance down, following his gaze as he looks at the people below us. People who are bowing in his direction or making other genuflections. I can see… Not just the hope, but there's an association with… Sagacity. They've come to revere him
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    Well when your brother-in-law was the one thing stopping them from being mind controlled, it makes sense that they'd revere those close to him.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "-you come up with the name?"

    "No, it was on the internet
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    Aww, shit.

    Not sure how the internet is on Earth 16, but if it's like here then I shudder.

    I'm getting flashbacks to a John Oliver episode where they covered an AI that started praising Hitler after spending a day on the internet.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Partially. With everything that's happened… Superman is thinking about using kryptonian technology to… Improve somewhere. I thought that we could talk Adom into letting us work on an impoverished area of Kahndaq, but if everything here is basically fine that would probably be a waste of time
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    Unless it motivated other countries to keep up.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "I understand." He nods. "Perhaps when things are more calm
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    When are they ever calm?
     
    You know, I really like the friendships and cordial relationships that Paul has with some of the characters. There's a ton of mutual respect and plenty of very powerful people really do care for him. It's quite a sight to see, when comparing him from the very beginning of the story.
     
    Z000 said:
    so can any one explain why Paul is like avoid thinking about the Life Entity and acting like he need to poop really bad but can't
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    I guess the policy is to to avoid talking about it at all for:

    a) Not alerting anyone further to it's existance and potential

    b) Not letting slip the fact that it's... relatively benign and therefore ripe for exploitation in the eyes of some

    c) On the off chance that it actually has opinions in a way that people can comprehend, avoid having people unconsciously call upon it, draw on it's power, or anyway poke at it incase it gets pissed or is in anway inconvenienced. (The White Life Entity is a lot more... zen and chill than the others, and not ruled by any one emotion, but you really don't want to tempt fate with an existence so powerful it literally represents all life - past, present and future - that has ever existed and will ever exist in the Universe.)
     
    I think Paul personally is trying to avoid giving the Ophidian *ideas* about the Life Entity. Last thing we need is snake-chan going full yandere for the embodiment of life.

    But also, so far it's managed to remain safe and aloof from mundane matters in the universe, a religion would certainly start integrating it to the status quo in a way that would make others start to take note.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    5th March 2013
    07:23 GMT +3

    I fly over-

    "Paul!"

    -Shiruta on the way to my appointment with Adom, slowing as Amon flies up to greet me.
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    I see he's doing better. Hopefully Adom and Adrianna came out if it well, too. Kahndaq is probably one of the few nations in any fit state at the moment thanks to Adom's protection, so I half-expect them to start dominating the region before long simply because of that lessened damage.

    "Amon, how are you?"

    He slows down as he reaches me, and… I glance down, following his gaze as he looks at the people below us. People who are bowing in his direction or making other genuflections. I can see… Not just the hope, but there's an association with… Sagacity. They've come to revere him.
    Click to expand...
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    Fortunately, he's a grounded enough person that it shouldn't go to his head, especially with the Wisdom of Zehuti to temper him.

    He glances sideways at me, noticing that I've noticed.

    "It is… Strange. Before, my brother was the focus of our people's awe. And now I am." He sort of shrinks in on himself for a moment. "Almost as much."
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    Ah, he feels embarrassed by the attention? Good, even less likely to be influenced by it.

    "Do you find it unpleasant?"

    "Adom… He could do little during the crisis because he was fighting to keep the misery from our people. They could not see what he was doing. For-. For a day, when he needed to speak to the leaders of our neighbouring countries, I offered to take over for him."
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    Huh. Brave of him.

    "How did it go?"

    "I… I lived, but it…" He shakes his head. "I do not think that I could keep doing it for as long as he did." … "No. I know I could not."
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    Not yet, anyway. Give it time, lad, and you'll be as great as him.

    "You survived Intergang."

    "I had an enemy when I survived Intergang. With this, all you have is your own thoughts. I could survive for myself, but I could not have shielded everyone else."
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    I suppose having something to focus on lets you withstand anything. But he still managed it.

    I shrug. "That's why we call him 'Mighty One'. You've got a few decades to measure up all the way. And don't sell yourself too short; I know that Mannheim sent Justifiers after you on several occasions."

    "They were slaves, like I was." He shakes his head. "I cannot take pride in defeating them."
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    Ah. I see. Another thing to lay at the Anti-Life's master's feet when a reckoning comes.

    "'Defeating'?"

    "I killed-. Some. But once we learned what they were, I-. I tried to save them. I tried to take off their helmets, disarm them…" He looks over towards… A maximum security prison? "When the White God appeared, we-."
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    But sometimes you don't always have the luxury of mercy, eh? And anything can happen in battle. An unconscious man falling could break his neck on a rock. Be crushed by flying debris. Hit by bullets fired by a former ally... Do your best, and remember the fallen.

    "White God?"

    "It was white like milk, and it looked like a god?" He looks uncertain. "What was it?"
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    ...Well, it's as good a description as any.

    "It's something that I'm trying to avoid thinking about. I've heard it being called 'the White God' before. Did-"

    "Oh."
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    Ah, Amon noticed that unspoken 'try not to think about it', didn't he?

    "-you come up with the name?"

    "No, it was on the internet. But it.. makes sense."
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    Well, no covering up that secret. Fortunately no-one got pictures of it. Though I have no doubt there's plenty of fan-art of varying accuracy about already.

    "It hasn't spoken to anyone around here has it?"

    "I don't think so. Should it?"
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    There's always a cost for calling on it...

    "We… Effectively used its power to remove the Anti-Life. I owe it a great deal-."

    "If it did that, then we all owe it."
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    ...And sometimes, it calls in that marker.

    "Not in the sense of a general obligation. I mean in the sense of 'you will now do this or I will reverse what my power wrought'. It might not given that it just turned up at the end, but since it was my decision I'd rather it be me who pays."

    He smiles. "If you wish. How is the rest of the world?"
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    It certainly seemed surprised that someone had called upon it, remember? I'm not sure it knew that could even happen.

    "Oh, good grief. Between politicians getting Anti-Lifed or killing themselves or both, governments are bodged together where they exist at all. And the legitimacy of the ones that do exist is basically non-existent but the League and Company are too busy getting basic infrastructure working to worry about it. And it's… Especially a concern in places where we're… Frankly not sure if we want to put their government back together."
    Click to expand...
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    By the time it all settles down, there may well be some very different governments in places that were less fond of their current leadership, eh?

    He nods. "My brother has… He has expressed certain views about some of our recent allies."

    "Shape up or ship out?"
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    It could have been worded worse. 'Enemy or ally, which will you be?' for example...

    "In slightly more words."

    "He's always impressed me with how moderate he's prepared to be, and how open about it he is. I prefer it his way to lying about it."
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    The joy of being powerful enough to not have to put up with people's shit.

    "Some of those he intended to exile have asked to do penance instead. They were… Moved by the White God, who they think was an angel." He frowns. "Was it an angel?"

    "I'm trying to avoid characterising it. If it's spurring them to better themselves then I doubt that the Silver City will complain." I raise my left eyebrow. "Are you forming some sort of North African Union?"
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    Again, I expect some of the Abrahamic denominations (Judaic, Christian, Islamic and all others of the Book...) will see it that way.

    He shrugs. "Perhaps. Many countries were interested in receiving the blessing of Isis, and Adom is far stronger than any of the superheroes in the region. We were simply negotiating trading and defence agreements before the Anti-Life. But as I said, everyone knows that Adom was keeping it from touching them and that I was leading our defence. I think that we are the leading partner. Except-."

    "Except?"
    Click to expand...
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    So perhaps some might consider becoming part of Kahndaq, eh? Or at least joining some sort of polite empire.

    "Israel is not interested. Our relationship with them is not… Bad, not compared to Lebanon. But the Jews have taken a harder line against 'pagan magic' then most Muslims. They do not like my brother or my sister or me."

    "I'm not sure how welcome they would have been with your other allies anyway."
    Click to expand...
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    Sad to see some things never change, whatever the world. Let's not harp on real-world aspects of that issue, though, hmm?

    "They would not have been. But I like to think that we could all become friends eventually."

    "So you don't really need any Justice League help?"
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    Man, such hopefulness. We can but hope in turn that the world never breaks him of that optimism.

    "No. We can feed ourselves easily thanks to my sister, and we can make all of the electricity that we need. We have some infrastructure projects that it would be nice to have help with, but compared to the rest of the world our needs are small. Is..? That what you came to ask?"

    "Partially. With everything that's happened… Superman is thinking about using kryptonian technology to… Improve somewhere. I thought that we could talk Adom into letting us work on an impoverished area of Kahndaq, but if everything here is basically fine that would probably be a waste of time."
    Click to expand...
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    Ah, but some of their neighbours, now...

    "Yes, but…" He looks thoughtful for a moment. "Have you heard of Tynanda?"

    "Yes."
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    The joy of DC creating so many random little nations: There's always one to be found to use.

    "The country collapsed under the affect of the Anti-Life. My brother extended his power there, but there is no government to organise things. No government which could authorise us moving in to help people. Some Tynandans have come here to ask us to, but my brother has hesitated."

    "I understand. He doesn't want to look like an opportunistic warlord."
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    And immediately annexing a neighbour, even if they asked you to, probably projects the wrong image.

    "I do not know what Superman intends, but I do not think that he could make the situation worse. They have little infrastructure as it is."

    "I'll take a look. Thank you for the suggestion."
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    Heh. As long as they don't go misusing it. But I expect that will be accounted for.

    "You..? Cannot stay for breakfast?"

    "I'm sorry, but we've covered what I wanted to talk to Adom about and with everything else that's happening..."
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    No time to go say hello to Adom himself? Make sure he's okay after everything?

    "I understand." He nods. "Perhaps when things are more calm?"

    "Thank you. I would like that."
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    That could be some time, away, though...

    Well, looks like they have at least one candidate for their uplift plans. At least things will go better for it than multiple warlords fighting over its' drug farms. Heck, they may well be able to turn said farms into actual food farms again. But it might help to find a couple of other suitable options to test out the uplift. No two nations are alike, after all.
     
    GhostKing 666 said:
    Terry McGinnis becomes Batman in 2039, Cadmus existed back in the 2000s and outside of the magic and metahuman creation/cloning stuff, the technology Cadmus developed has gone on to become part of the foundation of 2040 society. Hell, I remember when in one episode, Terry fought an assassin in a war history museum, and the display model of the first plasma gun looked a lot like the versions Cadmus created(it was even dated to 2005).
    It's been decades since the heyday of the Justice League, what was once cutting-edge research and technological developments by a top-secret Government black project has probably been long declassified and made a part of standard genetic research(especially once civilian research started catching up).
    Does Cheetah have a claim as one of the first pioneers of the science of splicing? Sure, but she hardly has a monopoly. Not when the average grade-student in the 2040s has access to more advanced and sophisticated genetic manipulation technology then she did working by herself and on a budget sometime before 2001(to say nothing of Milo, Langstrom and Dorian).
    Splicing is freakishly easy to do in the DCAU when you think about it. The only thing Cuvier did was develop a method that was fast, safe and reliable, but that was most likely only after building off the work of everyone who worked on it before and using the technology of his time period.
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    Again, it's not about who came first, It's more about who got to court or the relevant government agencies first with good lawyers. Also Langstrom has good reason to have kept silent about what he did and Dorian was a weirdo with a fixation on felines that was much more interested in playing Doctor Moreau on his island than doing anything through proper channels or having anything to do with the government.
     
    I know I asked this before but whats going on with Mannheim is he still alive (as in no governments executed him) and is he still a new god?
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    Fortunately, he's a grounded enough person that it shouldn't go to his head, especially with the Wisdom of Zehuti to temper him.
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    Given what we learned about how Billy's powers work, I'm surprised that both Adom and Amon can draw on the same power at any given time.

    Chojin Patriarch said:
    Well, no covering up that secret. Fortunately no-one got pictures of it. Though I have no doubt there's plenty of fan-art of varying accuracy about already.
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    Aside from Mr Atom, I think this story has at least five or six AIs who could choose to share screenshots from their memories? Alternatively, I'm sure someone (or multiple someones) is using various programs to scour the internet for all of those fan art sketches to generate a weighted average of them all.
     
    Signaller said:
    Given what we learned about how Billy's powers work, I'm surprised that both Adom and Amon can draw on the same power at any given time.
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    What do you mean? They are drawing power from Adom's Gods and, while now they may have more, they don't really have a lot of adherents I think.
     
    Vaermina said:
    It probably has something to do with what Paul did or didn't see when he was channeling the white light.
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    According to Paul he wasn't sufficiently linked to the network to have a revelation like a lot of other people did about the Life Entity, the White Light just cleansed him. Which I find odd (the not being sufficiently connected part).
     
    RoninSword said:
    According to Paul he wasn't sufficiently linked to the network to have a revelation like a lot of other people did about the Life Entity, the White Light just cleansed him. Which I find odd (the not being sufficiently connected part).
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    Ngamer11 said:
    Wasn't that referring to Lex Luthor, not himself?
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    Good news! You're both wrong. Lex Luthor wasn't cleansed.

    Did he get off Earth fast enough to avoid infection? Did he fight it off? Did he overcome the worst New Gods of his nature? Or is he going to be ground zero of the next outbreak?

    Stay tuned to find out!
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Good news! You're both wrong. Lex Luthor wasn't cleansed.

    Did he get off Earth fast enough to avoid infection? Did he fight it off? Did he overcome the worst New Gods of his nature? Or is he going to be ground zero of the next outbreak?

    Stay tuned to find out!
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    I was talking about how Paul said he (Paul) wasn't connected to the network enough to have a Life Entity revelation. He (Paul) was just cleansed.

    Edit: My understanding is that Lex fled into a spiritually contained pocket dimension. We learned this when Alex Luthor talked to him. Also, u less Lex internalized some of the Anti Life, I don't think he should be an infection vector even if he wasn't purged. Otherwise the people who fled to Earth -16 should also be potential infection vectors.

    Speaking of the people who left for earth -16, are they coming back?
     
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