Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Very funny but I don't think that line will hold up against a Celestia who is already reciting the Formula Fissive. It's a much better card to play earlier during the "Here's why you should keep secrets from Celestia and still consider it to be the Lawful Good thing to do" when onboarding Roach into the whole "we secretly have Luna on-side" thing.

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Well of course it won't dissuade Celestia, but we're talking about Bureau Agents here, not angry alicorns.

 

[Pittauro]

I've actually read this a couple days ago, quoting the parts I wanted to comment on... but I didn't have the time to actually write the comments


Let me write what I THINK were my thoughts at the time...

A specific building in the city, an abandoned museum, was commandeered by the Commissioner herself. Because "it has an underground vault," from what you heard, and because commandeering a bank for the same thing would "take too long".

A very well-secured convoy was set up, transporting the thing they found to this newly acquired vault. Closing off every street it went through and practically galloping through the city as if the transport carriage could explode at any moment.

And finally, the entire building was sealed up and reinforced as if Princess Celestia herself had decided to make that place her new permanent residence.

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Imagine what that looks from the outside. The Secret Police requisitioning a MUSEUM for their VAULT...

and only not doing it to a Bank due to lack of time...

and all the work to prepare it...

He's here because the Commissioner said he should be here," the leading stallion says, shrugging to his fellow soldier. "Besides, look around you. Look at what we are working with. Two unicorns, two pegasi, and me and him make it two earth ponies. This is a textbook strike team as far as I'm concerned."

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there might be some metaphysical weight to it too. harmony and cooperation between tribes to counter the hate and agony of the Wolf...

"Me, the lieutenant, and Sharp Wind over there are from the same strike team, so I can vouch for them. You two boys are from Red Team, so it's a statistical probability," she says to the stallion that first spoke up. "Can't you see? Everypony in this room… already killed somepony, in the line of duty. Everypony here has blood on their hoofs. Which also explains why the Commissioner went over our files of all things, before picking this team."

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and, not that they know it, Velvet has killed too.

My fourth year serving in Baltimare. Had been on the trail of a perp for a while, investigating some suspicious deals with certain… wealthy ponies. And when I finally caught up to him, I found out he was a… he was a foal peddler," you say, earning a few serious, but respectful, glances from the surrounding ponies. "He resisted, things got ugly, and that was that."

You don't really think you need to tell them anything else.

You leave out the part where, after that, they gave you a medal and quietly transferred you to the paper-pushing side of the Constabulary.

You leave out the part where the final report from the internal investigation fully cleared you of any misdeeds, after citing evidence you never reported on.

You leave out the part where you saw red, and where you came back to your senses only after you finished drowning him on a nearby ditch.

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completely understandable... the evidence "he never reported" might very well be genuine, for all we know, but even if it wasn't... we're talking LITERAL slavers selling children, so honestly who cares.

Your team was in the Bureau a few weeks ago, when the Commissioner was in a particularly foul mood, and you remember how something as small as her gaze felt like a whip on your back.

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Bit of a shame we didn't have an edge influence active this turn... Then again maybe it would have been a bit too much and too suspicious?

In fact, you only just realized that none of you questioned the fact that the Commissioner is here to begin with. Because if you had heard this story from anypony else, that some fragile noblemare was about to help kill a monster, you would have thought the speaker was insane.

But for some reason, for some insane reason that none of you can even think to question, nopony is pointing that out. Nopony thinks there is anything wrong with this. In fact, a part of you feels relieved that she is here.

Because she is not just a fragile noblemare. She is not a sweet-talking posh who tripped and stumbled her way into the Princesses' favor.

She is the Commissioner of the Lunar Bureau.

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And don't you forget it!

But yeah, from the outside this must look crazy.

The Commissioner told you all about this. It told you the jar itself was cursed. That the creature inside it was even worse than that. And that the monster would try to get inside your very mind, telling you whatever was needed, just for the sake of tormenting you.

And true to her words, the moment you stepped into the vault, you started to hear it.

The sound of gurgling. The sound of a pony drowning.

The sound of the monster you killed, all those years ago, as you held him down with your own hoofs and drowned him in that ditch.

This sound, this ringing noise inside your ear, disgusts you. It disgusts you because it reminds you of everything you saw that day. It disgusts you because it reminds you that you failed to apprehend the ponies that truly matters, the ones that were funding that whole operation. It disgusts you… because you swear that the jar makes it sound like he is laughing even as you hear him drown.

The thing inside that jar, you know, hates you. It hates you, and it is mocking you, and it wants you to suffer. Because whatever curse or whatever spell it knows is enough to look into your mind. And it is using that power for the sole purpose of tormenting you.

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Truly, The battle with the Windigo starts when you approach the jar, really.

It bursts out of the jar, and it HOWLS as it does that.

"SEND ME TO THE MIDSTS OF MY ENEMIES, THAT I MAY DIE KILLING!"​

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...ok, that's a pretty Metal battle cry, I'm not gonna lie.

[Critical success! The Windigo will be "rewarded" with a full turn alone with its new target]

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[Combatants (name, health, personal combat)]
Windigo (2/3, +55) (Solo Cmbatant)
Paperflank (3/3, +11) (Current Main Combatant)



[Overflow: Bureau –8, Windigo – 41]



[Windigo's first roll: 47 + 55 (Personal Combat) = 102]

[Paperflank's first roll: 75 + 29 (Personal Combat) = 104]



[Overflow: Bureau –10, Windigo – 41]



[Windigo's second roll: 74 + 55 (Personal Combat) – 30 (Outnumbered) = 129]

[Paperflank's second roll: 57 + 29 (Personal Combat) = 86]

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Shouldn't Paperflank have a lower combat score? You used Velvet's for this @OurLadyOfWires

Not that it matters much, but still!

Your eyes go wide as you realize what the Windigo is truly trying to do.

The beast, you can tell, is trying to shake the Commissioner off.

Because somehow, somehow, she has her hoofs around its neck. And despite the ethereal nature of its body, the Commissioner's hoof are somehow straddling it, as if the mare could strangle it into submission.

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...ok, that's just crazy awesome.

[Windigo's first roll: 24 + 55 (Personal Combat) – 30 (Outnumbered) = 49]

[Commissioner's first roll: 96 + 29 (Personal Combat) = 125]

[Team-leader's first roll: 43 + 18 (Personal Combat) = 61]

[Constable 1's first roll: 52 + 17 (Personal Combat) = 69]

[Constable 2's first roll: 9 + 15 (Personal Combat) = 24]

[Constable 3's first roll: 62 + 14 (Personal Combat) = 76]

[Constable 4's first roll: 33 + 14 (Personal Combat) = 47]

[Paperflank's first roll: 38 + 11 (Personal Combat) = 49]



[Overflow: Bureau – 144, Windigo – 34]



[Windigo suffers two wounds (-100 to Bureau's overflow)]

[The Windigo has been defeated]

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and, due to how this combat works... a single bad roll by the Windigo basically doomed it.

And Velvet did MOST of the damage, though numbers helped a LOT.

...Imagine if this had been not ONE Windigo, but instead Three or more.

In any case, it's a good lesson. If we can get a good strike team involved, numbers can make up for a lot against anything without multi-combat traits.

And in the end fighting the Windigo was a fairly safe endeavor for our team.

Actually, her gaze is almost soft. She looks relieved. She looks like a normal pony, who isn't even aware of what she just did or what just happened.

Instead, as if she didn't just drop from the ceiling with her hoofs around a creature made of pain and malice, she slowly limps her way towards you. Shooing away the lieutenant, and really everypony else, as she makes her way to your sorry self.

"Paperflank, are you alright?" she asks, with a voice so soft and, well, so worried you can barely believe it is coming from her mouth.

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the whiplash...

If you didn't know any better, you would think the Commissioner of the Lunar Bureau is now fussing over you as if you were foals. But still, this is certainly just her taking responsibility for her subordinates. Which, given the fight you have been through, makes sense, and shows that she is a mindful superior.

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... when "knowing better" makes you wrong...

You're just lucky our family is a bit too large already, or we'd adopt you too!

In the aftermath of this feat, Velvet Covers was able to introduce one of the Lores to the Lunar Bureau.

Velvet Covers has crafted the Level 1 Manuscript "Institutional Knowledge: Monster Hunting Techniques". It has been added to the Secret Library, and it has introduced the Lunar Bureau to the Lore of Edge.

The Lunar Bureau threadmark has been updated.

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yay! a +5 to our combat teams would be significant... though of course not everyone will have an affinity for Edge.

I wonder if Celestia will notice them, and what she'll think of it.


That said, we DO have an excuse for this!

It's this kind of rewards that make me want the quest to slow down and commit to building up this instituition properly instead of climbing the Mansus. The idea of an organisation dedicated to protecting the Kingdom from the dangers of the Lores created by the very Pony causing said dangers from the Lores is so fascinating.

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I get it, but no. We're on a timer.

The Bureau will last beyond our "ending". if there's a follow up or sequel after tha All-In quest, maybe we can build up the Bureau more then.

---

And I'll read the rest of the discussion later

 

[DelightedOne]

yay! a +5 to our combat teams would be significant... though of course not everyone will have an affinity for Edge.

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Not everypony will have an affinity for Edge, but Velvet Covers will certainly try to point those that do to the right targets.

I wonder if Celestia will notice them, and what she'll think of it.


That said, we DO have an excuse for this!

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I sincerely hope we did not make a mistake with introducing the lores and if we didn't Celestia will appreciate our help in filling the gaps in her knowledge(and hopefully distracting her from Lantern for a couple of turns).

That might even give us an in or FO with Midday Dew(for us to slow the advancement of Lantern as much as we can).

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Not everypony will have an affinity for Edge, but Velvet Covers will certainly try to point those that do to the right targets.


I sincerely hope we did not make a mistake with introducing the lores and if we didn't Celestia will appreciate our help in filling the gaps in her knowledge(and hopefully distracting her from Lantern for a couple of turns).

That might even give us an in or FO with Midday Dew(for us to slow the advancement of Lantern as much as we can).

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In before Mandatory FO where Celestia all-too-eagerly demands Edge lessons.

 

[Greymere]

In before Mandatory FO where Celestia all-too-eagerly demands Edge lessons.

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Well, she could demand them all she likes, but unfortunately for her Edge probably isn't in her affinity list, considering that Luna has it.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Dear reader, this is an "administrative" post that in my opinion warranted a threadmark.

Feel free to skip to the next threadmark to continue the story.

Spoiler: Author's notes

I am glad you all enjoyed the last update! Or at least that's what I hope happened. Still, I don't have a lot of opportunities to write combat, so I am legitimately happy you guys picked the Windigo fight.

As a personal note, at first I wanted to write it from Velvet's POV. But several factors made it that a third-person perspective would have been overall better. Hence good Paperflank taking center stage for this update. I don't expect us to see him anymore, but he is a good constable for your Bureau.

Still, I would like to point out that Velvet Covers herself had never seen a Windigo in the Wake before. And I need you all to realize that this meeting was dread-inducing even for her. (Although a non-capital D dread). Still, the fact remains that I tried my best to show that this was an encounter that warranted a boss music on the background.
No, really think about it. Here, you had a team of seven ponies. And the main combatant (Velvet herself) was rocking an above-heroic combat status. So, for all that Ponykind is big on its "heroic" units, those are still rare and sparce. In fact, your entire civilization only has three Princesses, one Shining Armor, and now one Velvet Covers.
So, even though you won, Velvet Covers is worried about the big questions. What if there were two Windigos at the same time? What if there were more? What if Windigos appear on multiple cities?
Make no mistake, there is potential for evil, and Evil, to win.

But as you said to your subordinates, today you won, and that is all that matters. And other than that, all you can do is keep strengthening the shield that the Lunar Bureau must become. One Lore level at a time.

[CHANGE OF SUBJECT]

So, I realized too late (as in, literally when you guys pointed out) that I fudged Paperflank's combat stats during his solo stint.

Thankfully, even if we used the real numbers, he would "only" have received an additional wound.

So, because I liked the fluff of how Harmony's warmth "burned" the Windigo, and because no mechanical changes would have truly occurred, I'll consider this a harmless error and not make any changes. And considering how I was already a bit miffed that Paperflank suffering "frostbites" was a bit too strong of a word, now that we all know he should have taken two points of damage, I am a lot more comfortable with the description of his wounds.

Which means, again, I'll declare this a "harmless error" and we can all move on.

[CHANGE OF SUBJECT]

In other news:
-I have been extremely, and I mean extremely, busy. Thank you for your patience!;
-Typos have been un-typoed (Windigo is an "it", not a "him", and other things besides);
-I am sure there are more typos I am still missing, so point them out if you will;
-I noted the comments that Biedde's Edge is not being applied to the Secret Library. But to be honest, I have not yet decided IF Names will influence the Lunar Bureau for now. Baldomare visited the Windhoof Club and the Master gave lessons, to justify it, but I don't see Biedde wearing a Lunar Bureau badge (yet?). So for now, no Name-bonus to the Bureau, but that is subject to change, as well as subject to certain things that might happen. But for now I'll just apply Velvet's own acts and Manuscripts to the Bureau's Lore level. Please give it more time;
-And your Knock Sacrament has been updated into your character sheet.

Thank you for your time and patience, and thank you for reading my story!

I am not sure when I will be able to write the next update, given how hectic life has been. But as has been the case so far, I'm sure I'll be able to squeeze in some time to do it.

As always, I hope you are all doing well.

 

[Fouredged]

It is entirely in setting for Cult Simulator for the universe to miss an error and then decide to make the error truth. The Histories are decided by committee. There now exists a secret history where Paperflank was injured.

 

[Witherbrine2671]

The Silver Key: There are certain mechanisms, locks or cogs or perhaps even laws, that are scattered in this world. You can now interact with them. (You will recognize them when you see them

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Okay this is very interesting

 

[DelightedOne]

The Silver Key: There are certain mechanisms, locks or cogs or perhaps even laws, that are scattered in this world. You can now interact with them. (You will recognize them when you see them)

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It's probably not what the Sacrament meant but I can't help but wonder if the door in BtRC part 3 can be interacted with. And of course the possibilty of things in the Mansus and maybe the Dreamlands.

The Tree of Harmony too since I feel like it could be the door to Harmony(because magic trees being doors to other realms is one of the best cliches of fantasy in my opinion).

There is also the matter of us going back to the human world by taking the mirror(if that is possible).

 

[AuthorTransient]

Dear reader, this is an "administrative" post that in my opinion warranted a threadmark.

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I am very glad to hear from you and I appreciate the time and effort it took for you to go out of your way to clarify this, despite your hectic schedule.

KNOCK: The Silver Key: There are certain mechanisms, locks or cogs or perhaps even laws, that are scattered in this world. You can now interact with them. (You will recognize them when you see them).

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Ah, you know what that means! Fleeting Opportunities! /joking

Thank you for your time and patience, and thank you for reading my story!

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Thank you as well. Though these four words may not be much, thank you for writing your story.

 

[ses]

-I noted the comments that Biedde's Edge is not being applied to the Secret Library. But to be honest, I have not yet decided IF Names will influence the Lunar Bureau for now. Baldomare visited the Windhoof Club and the Master gave lessons, to justify it, but I don't see Biedde wearing a Lunar Bureau badge (yet?). So for now, no Name-bonus to the Bureau, but that is subject to change, as well as subject to certain things that might happen. But for now I'll just apply Velvet's own acts and Manuscripts to the Bureau's Lore level. Please give it more time;

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I for one personally have been an extreme supporter of Biedde-Bureau interactions! Best grandpa.

I am glad you all enjoyed the last update! Or at least that's what I hope happened.

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You can safely consider this to be so. I was very annoying talking to my friends about how much I wanted to boop the windigo snoot to my friends in the days before the post was even dropped, and was talking about how much I loved the "SEND ME TO THE MIDST OF MY ENEMIES THAT I MAY DIE KILLING!" line afterwards.

 

[spiderhellian]

Okay this is very interesting

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So interesting! And so tantalizing!

It's opening a present to see a note that says "you will encounter presents over the next six months."! The mystery has been pushed out a step further! I am so curious here what this will look like.

 

[ses]

So interesting! And so tantalizing!

It's opening a present to see a note that says "you will encounter presents over the next six months."! The mystery has been pushed out a step further! I am so curious here what this will look like.

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Incentive to send Velvet personally on expeditions instead of just sending Axe to solo them? It would make sense to nudge her in that direction. Honestly I want to spend some Selene actions searching for easy Expeditions next turn, as hopefully that will turn up some Short jaunts into the Everfree that we can send Axe or, now that we need to take this perk for a spin, Velvet, on without burning their action. I could easily see a Turn 22 for Selene of "Soothe the night/Search for a 3circle spot/Search for Easy Expeditions"

Or we could entrust Mareinette with finding us a 3circle site? We really do need to apply some heavy ammo to that task next turn after all, since turn 23 is when we really want Selene to just start spamming generic summons. Honestly I'm not really sure the intended way for us to obtain one.

 

[Sveta08]

Mhmm! Always glad for a check-in. Hope the morning isn't too much a nightmare for us all.

As for the knock Sacrament...
By its nature it's not exactly something we can "game" and figure out, something that Our Lady has been increasingly cognizant of as time goes on. (Those hidden dice rolls are for a reason after all)
So, I'd invite us all to think on over the Silver Key, Knock itself, and the touch of story around it. It seems the best way to theorize about it, rather than just go "Knock! Keys! Wounds!"

I... Admittedly am kinda busy, so will offer my thoughts when I can think clearer.
But, how fun. A new puzzle!

 

[Arrkhon]

but I don't see Biedde wearing a Lunar Bureau badge (yet?).

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Good point
We just have to say that we know a really good fighter and monster hunter and that he came by to give them some basic lessons but can't stay due to being busy out in who-knows-where

 

[Nevermort]

Do we also need Moth, Edge and Winter Sacraments to teach Luna lvl 5 Lore? Or does she learn Sacraments differently?

 

[DelightedOne]

Do we also need Moth, Edge and Winter Sacraments to teach Luna lvl 5 Lore? Or does she learn Sacraments differently?

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We just got her to All-4 so we won't have an answer till we get a new turn(where we will hopefully learn what it takes to give our other followers Sacraments too).

Considering how her progress has been handled I think it will be somewhat different than usual.

 

[Witherbrine2671]

So, I'd invite us all to think on over the Silver Key, Knock itself, and the touch of story around it. It seems the best way to theorize about it, rather than just go "Knock! Keys! Wounds!"

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I mean my first thought is that it's a Lovecraft story and allows access to the dreamlands and such. So maybe we could poke around the Dreamlands and the Mansus. Given Knock is already heavily related to the latter it makes sense.

 

[Pittauro]

All-In could easily be "Pass a CD 200 check of each lore type in sequence, then fight a dozen monsters, then fight Discord". It's the Final Dungeon and presumably balanced around the idea of having [BEFRIENDED] a bunch of Names as well as having a small army of generic summons as well as a treasure trove of Artifacts from expeditions. If we're not walking in with a combined 20 lore levels in every single lore from lore+names+summons+artifacts we're not even started on being slightly prepared.

Making the Bureau into an asset will help us beat it, because presumably we unlock nifty goodies like "the Bureau trusts us enough to let us use the loot from expeditions we send the constables on for undefined Reasons that we assure them is for the best", or lets us get that Cadre bonus back for rituals, or otherwise lets us dip back into the entire writeup the QM made of Cult Infrastructure bonuses that hasn't been used in ages.

Heck, the Detectives action has had the option for "find Expedition sites for you to plunder" from literally day 1, and surely they get more useful from there with investment.

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That's just absurd. DC 150 is ALREADY meant to be basically impossible to mortals (and extremely difficult for Names too), and you think the DCs are going to be 200s?! Things that even NAMES would (on their own) be LITERALLY unable to do even in their specialties?

Nah. We're probably going to get a series of DCs between 120 and 150.

And we'll NEVER be able to use the Bureau for this. We can only use minions, and using the Bureau to steal from CELESTIA is just foolish.

If Velvet considered the Sons her family they would be in the family section of our contact list since it is from her point of view. They aren't even on the contact list so you can guess how important they are to her.

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Which is "if she could have them removed from existence she would and probably cry tears of joy about it".

The Elements definitely could but... Magic isn't really available.

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They PROBABLY could, but it's not a sure thing. The Elements are powerful, but they're not QUITE All-Powerful. For example they actually struggle in purifying Stygian in the show from what I remember. And if we go by the comics, they alone are not enough to deal with, say, Cosmos, who's stronger than Discord AND the Elements combined (though of course she's probably not a thing here).

At peak power, the elements probably could. but reaching peak power... well, we're FAR from that point.

We would have gotten our ass kicked if we had tried that without -30(Outnumbered) and no Influence.

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To be fair if we had been on our own we would have NEVER fought it directly.

We would have just banished it. And if we couldn't do that, we would have used Wrong Keys to help.

Man the entire fixation the thread had on the idea that the level 6 Lantern book was some ultra critical setting metaplot information and that we indispensably needed to learn about the Intercalate for reasons is just so frustrating to read through. It was just an ordinary level 6 book.

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Actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, we summoned Baldomare in the same turn we decided to study the Lantern book.

In other words, we didn't know that Baldomare needed books to progress her friendship questline, and by the time we knew it was too late as we had already partially read the book and it was no longer suitable for a gift to her.

I actually remember asking if we could have given her that one, but it was too late already.

In hindsight yeah, if we could have given her that book we really REALLY should have. we would have kept her for those 3 turns she was missing, we would have kept both her AND finished Selene's training at the same time...

But it was not to be.

So, like any frustrating occult writer would, i purposefully did not comment on it at all.
What was she wearing? Well, I know, and there is only one correct answer. But you will never know what that is!

This is a canonical unresolved ambiguity in Esquestria lore now

(Fitting for your Brand, I suppose)

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...but @OurLadyOfWires if it's an unresolved ambiguity then there ISN'T a correct answer! That's the whole point of Secret Histories, that multiple pasts are ALL correct!

Unfortunately for Celestia, she established Luna as above her when it came to the chain of command for the Bureau, so in the event of Luna revealing herself prior to any All-in she would just countermand that order.

If we're fighting any pony organization it would be Eclipse, or more accurately whatever Eclipse had summoned at that time in their studies of the Mansus. Or, more mundanely, the Royal Guard.

Edited: I corrected the first instance of "Eclipse" to "Bureau."

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Celestia is still the "True" princess, the one they've known all her life.

They might still decide Luna shouldn't act like this, even if in theory by law she's allowed to.

-And your Knock Sacrament has been updated into your character sheet.

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LE GASP! LET ME SEE

-The Silver Key: There are certain mechanisms, locks or cogs or perhaps even laws, that are scattered in this world. You can now interact with them. (You will recognize them when you see them).

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... @OurLadyOfWires, please be honest with me: Is this kind of a knock-off Keyblade (only in relation to locks, physical and metaphysical, NOT in combat potential!)

It's probably not what the Sacrament meant but I can't help but wonder if the door in BtRC part 3 can be interacted with. And of course the possibilty of things in the Mansus and maybe the Dreamlands.

The Tree of Harmony too since I feel like it could be the door to Harmony(because magic trees being doors to other realms is one of the best cliches of fantasy in my opinion).

There is also the matter of us going back to the human world by taking the mirror(if that is possible).

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...I could see this Sacrament working with the Memory of Light path.

As in, if we got both Celestia and Luna on our side, it could make it easier to "reopen the bridge/door to Harmony".

 

[DelightedOne]

They PROBABLY could, but it's not a sure thing. The Elements are powerful, but they're not QUITE All-Powerful. For example they actually struggle in purifying Stygian in the show from what I remember. And if we go by the comics, they alone are not enough to deal with, say, Cosmos, who's stronger than Discord AND the Elements combined (though of course she's probably not a thing here).

At peak power, the elements probably could. but reaching peak power... well, we're FAR from that point.

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Arguments for Harmonic superiority:

1. Discord turned to stone for over a millenia. Half a soul of a mortal pony being purified should be easy, especially since we would be cooperating and not resisting it.

2. The Wolf is also not All-Powerful since he is not a fully active Hour so he should be unable to stop the purification or at least not hinder it as much(just one less Stain would be great).

3. The Elements didn't really struggle to purify him, Starlight and Twilight tried to talk it out first, when that didn't work so well because the darkness refused to let him go they made lassos to try to pull him out then asked the Pillars and the rest of the Elements(and also Sunburst) to help, which they did and succeded in saving him in like 10 seconds. Oh and they also opened and sustained a portal to Limbo while doing all of that. Yes, I watched the scene again to make sure this was accurate.

Celestia is still the "True" princess, the one they've known all her life.

They might still decide Luna shouldn't act like this, even if in theory by law she's allowed to.

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That is what the Daybreaker revelation is for. If Selene tells them her sister is close to turning into something like Nightmare Moon because of the pain she felt when the Catastrophe happened they would at least give her the benefit of doubt.

Celestia's guilt over Luna's banishment really helps here, since she spread the idea that Nightmare Moon came from negativity instead of a Worm(though honestly it was negativity that came from being possessed by a Worm) we have some credibility on this.

...I could see this Sacrament working with the Memory of Light path.

As in, if we got both Celestia and Luna on our side, it could make it easier to "reopen the bridge/door to Harmony".

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Don't give me hope.

 

[Pittauro]

Arguments for Harmonic superiority:

1. Discord turned to stone for over a millenia. Half a soul of a mortal pony being purified should be easy, especially since we would be cooperating and not resisting it.

2. The Wolf is also not All-Powerful since he is not a fully active Hour so he should be unable to stop the purification or at least not hinder it as much(just one less Stain would be great).

3. The Elements didn't really struggle to purify him, Starlight and Twilight tried to talk it out first, when that didn't work so well because the darkness refused to let him go they made lassos to try to pull him out then asked the Pillars and the rest of the Elements(and also Sunburst) to help, which they did and succeded in saving him in like 10 seconds. Oh and they also opened and sustained a portal to Limbo while doing all of that. Yes, I watched the scene again to make sure this was accurate.

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Elements at full power likely can. But the elements are only as strong as the relationship between the holders.

When Celestia used them on their own, they weren't as strong. With the current state of friendship between the bearers, they wouldn't be that strong either. THat's (mostly) what I meant.

That is what the Daybreaker revelation is for. If Selene tells them her sister is close to turning into something like Nightmare Moon because of the pain she felt when the Catastrophe happened they would at least give her the benefit of doubt.

Celestia's guilt over Luna's banishment really helps here, since she spread the idea that Nightmare Moon came from negativity instead of a Worm(though honestly it was negativity that came from being possessed by a Worm) we have some credibility on this.

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Thing is, they might not believe us. it only takes one deserter speaking to the wrong pony... like, say, Fair Trial.

Luna simply doesn't have a history of trustworthiness yet.

 

[DelightedOne]

Thing is, they might not believe us. it only takes one deserter speaking to the wrong pony... like, say, Fair Trial.

Luna simply doesn't have a history of trustworthiness yet.

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Fair, but we also made major progress on making them loyal to us personally.

Two turns of this:

-[] [COMMISSIONER] The Bureau is more than an institution, it is a gathering of dedicated ponies working towards a unified goal. Ingrain yourself with them. (Establish, increase, or salvage the loyalty of the Bureau towards you personally.)

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Boosted by these:

-[] What of the great noble, who conspired against the Crown?
--[] Put him behind bars, where he belongs (gain a great deal of respect from the Bureau)

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[] Open it.
-Velvet Covers and a team of 6 (six) Lunar Bureau Constables will fight against a Windigo. You will first move the jar to a safer place, and make preparations to ensure the creature cannot easily escape during combat, and that it will have no choice but fight to the death.
-Pros: Success will greatly improve your standing with the Lunar Bureau, and will deal with this issue.

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Has to mean something. Especially with the hints that Luna's reveal is coming soon.

What I'm hoping to achieve is turn the Bureau into a cult where Velvet is known as the professional, loyal to the Crown and good Comissioner so that when we reveal Luna it will serve as the final evolution of the Velvet Covers reputation: So good at her job she already found Princesa Luna and is trying to help Princess Celestia too(she is so good).

 

[ses]

And we'll NEVER be able to use the Bureau for this. We can only use minions, and using the Bureau to steal from CELESTIA is just foolish.

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I never said we'd use them directly, but that they could be a source of funneling artifacts into our faction.

Which is important because there's every chance that, yes, the DC's are not based around the idea of being doable solo but requiring a team effort from Velvet, Names, and Artifacts/Summons. Arguments based around DC's for checks approached solo don't necessarily apply to hurdles intended to only be approached by a team. Requiring All-20 in combined lore levels from the entire team is indeed the bare absolute minimum we can expect from the Final Dungeon. I don't generally like direct comparisons to CS mechanics but the final test in CS requires 36 combined lore: your lore's Name and a max level in your lore does not even begin to approach enough. You need Lore+Name+Other (Here Lore+Name+Artifact specifically) with only a little wiggle room from the absolute max possible. I'm not saying it'll be exactly like that but that "High level personal lore, plus that lore's Name, plus a high level artifact or build your own equivalent from lesser artifacts and generic summons" would be the standard.

 

[Arrkhon]

Hmmm, while dangerous the Daybreaker is still locked up, even as the chains are being slowly loosened, isn't she? And since our soul is a key...

 

[Sveta08]

I have been afforded time to think, water to drink, and life enough to be here. Huzzah.
Still working on words about what the Silver Key means, how it is, and what it might afford.

In the end, I feel there are two things I want to highlight though. One being outlined in the text and the other being... the outline of the text? Hard to explain, too broad. I'll start with the simpler bit.

Do we also need Moth, Edge and Winter Sacraments to teach Luna lvl 5 Lore? Or does she learn Sacraments differently?

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I do not believe Sacraments work the same as the rest. They are both personal and very sharp? Delicate? Fragile? Spiderwebs are both impossibly strong and incredibly frail, it has that attribute.

Sacraments are... Not quite an understanding. It's not something taught or something learned. It's an understanding, yes, but not something that can be given. What was the phrase... "Can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink?" Or if you want a more modern example, "I can tell you every, but I can't make you want to know."

Sacraments are built on an understanding, on a desire, and a curiosity. A Hunger, if you forgive the Grail color to it. They are made of that want, rooted in an understanding that is half acceptance and half understanding. But that's also not why I don't think we can offer Sacraments like this.

Forgive the Edge, but they are scars.

"The first point o' no return for ev'ry adept is mental. Ye reach it when yer mind lets go o' th' desire tae return. Bo' this… this is more… This next step is a sacrifice. Et's self-mutilation. Et's the loss of the ability itself o' returnin'. Even if ye come tae regret yer decisions, even if ye burn away yer knowledge an' yer power an' yer realization, ye'll be incapable o' coming back."

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Self Mutilation. Not a word used lightly. And given what we see from The Silver Key, not inaccurate. To be burnt away, cut and boiled down into the Right Shape, made into something shaped like something more, yet less.

Power has costs. And I don't think Velvet would ask Luna to wound herself like that, if Luna was even prepared for it in the first place.


And...



It's... That.
This, niggling, tingling, squirming and dawning thought that's been in the back of my mind since ... The Masters death to be honest. This squirming, fleshy almost certainly that gives me pause, that I'm still not sure it's right to say.
But with thought of Sacraments, and giving these burdensome boons, these wounds, I don't think I can sit on it now.

I think Velvet doesn't think the world is wrong.



She knows things. The way the world used to be. The way it is. The change that was wrought it, even if not how or why. She knows the Old Ways, and has grown to know them more and more. And she was born into this New World, and it's many ways. And she doesn't see it as wrong, even now.
Maybe mislead, maybe disempowered but...

Look at her family. Yes, family, but that's not the thing I'm pointing at. Look at her relationship with the Lore and her family. She didn't share it freely, openly when it all began. She didn't cave and given them secrets of power and mystery when it might be at risk. She didn't offer them the tools to victory and control in the modern age for purpose of subjugation and rule, nor for authority and power. She gave them only when it became a risk not to do so. She told and shared more... because it is the duty of a mother to prepare her children for the world. Because it was a gift she could give. Not because it was authority or power to be wielded.

Look... look at the princesses. Selene, the daughter. Why? Why steal away the Moon in the Sky and shelter it? Not because it was wrong in her eyes, nor that it's duty was poorly filled, but because... she wanted them to succeed. And the world was more dangerous than she knew. Because the world and all its secrets contained horrors more that just dreams. She didn't want to supplant the order of things, but to reinforce it. Not with control by her hoof and her will, but with... the shape of the world that already is. Only strengthened by laws long since forgotten.

Look at the Regrettable Actions. Selfish, all, but two rooted in more than just self preservation. A door made up of slaughter, called the right path, the just way to authority. An institute of the old way that demanded death. That demanded for the right to rule, one must understand the weight of such actions. Selfish, naive and to her own order, she struck the door. No more would die by it's decree. The world suffered, but hers was a want that the world stay. And The Master. That... That something should steal away in the body of another. That the companionship of a friend, of a companion, should be stolen away. Someone as much as some thing infesting in the soul of what she knew was meant to be something beautiful for this world. Some hand in the order of this world. She did not stand, and lacking the power herself to change it, changed the world. For the worse, but with a heart intent on something else.

Look at The Lunar Bureau. Here, at the seat of power, this was not a place build by her own hoof. It is not somewhere that she rose through the ranks by her authority and her guile. It is not a place of power she stole from the brightest and best, leveraging tools more powerful than they could scarce imagine. It is not a cult she has crafted to her own ends. It is an institution that she was given the reigns of, and that she attempts to lead. A place given by friends in high places, she attempts to reign both justly and carefully. Endear herself to the people of it, yes, but she has done her utmost to not break with the tenants. To not break the truth and purpose of it. The allyship with the Solar Court, the best and the brightest personally vetted, the people sent off to fight monsters both known and unknown. She herself views the place not as hers even, but that she is preparing them for Luna's reign in it's halls. Never once has it been shown she views it as... hers forever. That she wants to steal it away. It was a gift made from one sister to the other after all.



I am rambling at this point, but, I don't think Velvet believes the world is wrong. She has come very very close on a number of occasions. But the Velvet I see, the person we have all built?
She doesn't look like someone willing to throw it all away for her own gain. She doesn't look like the person to scar her children to give them power.
She doesn't want the old world. She does not long for The Moon, nor does she long for Harmony to supplant. But she... You see what I'm saying, yes?

She is willing to shoulder burdens she would not place on others. She wanted to appologize to Selene for giving them the Name's Bindings. She....
Where was it.

The one with a single marble statue, of a white alicorn, currently placed over the icy peaks of the Yaket Range.

She would have known what to do… of course she would, but Princess Celestia is not here, she can't afford to be here. You can surmise, if that statue truly represents her current position, that she has taken upon herself to search the farthest and most dangerous places, and that corroborates with the rumors you heard about the Princess not having been seen in Canterlot for weeks now.

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Honestly... this whole mess was borne from ponies having too many good intention, and not enough worry about planning on how to get things done. But ponies can be like that sometimes…

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She chooses to continue ruling ponykind, she chooses to keep raising the sun and moon, and to care for the mortal affairs of ponies. She chooses to carry the weight of the whole world on her back.

In fact, this whole search, her own efforts in it, might be the only bit of selfishness that she has allowed herself in centuries. The one defiance she has made against her own rules, because they involve the one pony she would be willing to break them for.

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And you believe her, out of some instinct that you can't rightly name, as if it was in your very nature to trust her completely.

The next moment, she is gone, the inward puff of a vacuum being filled by air announcing her departure, leaving you and Shining Armor in the silent hall.



It would only be hours later, when you were back on your bed, that you would realize that you are not sure, in all honesty, if…

If Princess Celestia was telling you the truth, in her promise.

Or if she was merely comforting you, speaking a lie to make you feel better as a parent might do to comfort their foals.

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She, Velvet, Agrees.
That is the Velvet I see.

 

[Shaper47]

I think Velvet doesn't think the world is wrong.

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Considering how the entire Soft adoption went and Velvet's actions I have to completely disagree with you here.

 

[spiderhellian]

Mhmm! Always glad for a check-in. Hope the morning isn't too much a nightmare for us all.

As for the knock Sacrament...
By its nature it's not exactly something we can "game" and figure out, something that Our Lady has been increasingly cognizant of as time goes on. (Those hidden dice rolls are for a reason after all)
So, I'd invite us all to think on over the Silver Key, Knock itself, and the touch of story around it. It seems the best way to theorize about it, rather than just go "Knock! Keys! Wounds!"

I... Admittedly am kinda busy, so will offer my thoughts when I can think clearer.
But, how fun. A new puzzle!

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Well. I do love theorizing. But I really hope it's not that opaque.

You're right that it fits on the narrative level. But on a gameplay level, it would kinda suck to have this really cool power we've gained be something we have to gamble on, rather than clearly delivering an effect..

For example, if the door in BtRC pt.3 is something the Silver Key can interact... I really hope we'll know it, and thus be in the position of "hm should we send Velvet", rather than having to make that decision without having the knowledge.

 

[Sveta08]

Considering how the entire Soft adoption went and Velvet's actions I have to completely disagree with you here.

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It wouldn't be the first, not I imagine the last time we disagree on how things are.

 

[ses]

-Team-leader (4/4, +18)

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Man I don't think anyone else has pointed out what a beefcake Team Leader was. He's almost Shining Armor tier. Will he be a Worthy Opponent with just the first level of Edge? Because that'd be hilarious.

On the subject of combat by the way I ran a simulation and Velvet with [A Resolution] at +69 personal combat needs seven +8 normie enemies at the same time ganging up on her to have a 50/50 winrate. Outnumbering penalties are brutal, and Edge Influences are scary. Those are both true statements.

 

[BritBiscuit]

y'know thinking back on this quest, it's really funny how this entire path the story has taken of being Commissioner of the Suppression Buruea and being trusted by the princess' was entirely caused by a guard being rude to Velvet and cutting her off when she was going to offer help.
All the recognition of administrating ponies which lead to us being called to Camelot and actually having the opportunity to gain the trust of Candance and Celestia was entirely caused by Velvet choosing to sneak into the command tent in annoyance instead just being given a job/area to search if the guard was just a bit less dismissive.