With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I smile at the young-looking captain the Brazilian government is dispatching to confirm the Accalas' claims.

"What did you do to get lumbered with this job?"

The captain -Davi Serra- remains po-faced.

I can certainly see it as an 'assigned to Siberia' position. Going to visit a potentially hostile band of super-strong natives who have no reason to like me? I'd be damn nervous.

"I studied traditional languages and culture in university. And part of my family still lives in the countryside. I want to try to explain why remaining part of Brazil is good for them."

"Best of luck. You'll experience a moment of disorientation, but there shouldn't be any other side-effects. If you feel anything, let me know at once."

"And no jokes about wanting to go back for your stomach, please. I'd hate for it to be literal..."

He nods, I attach a filament and the universe flickers. Since I don't think letting the Brazilian government know exactly where the Accala are at the moment is a good idea, we appear under the canopy. I look at Captain Serra just in case, but he gives his head a small shake and waves my concerns off. I nod, then lower us to the jungle floor, the locals keeping back slightly but watching with interest.

I bet most of them are just wondering "Who's this now? Another outsider?"

"They do not interact much with outsiders."

"Some of them do. Most don't."

"If they are still vulnerable to disease-."

"No, but that sort of thing leaves a mark."

And I'm sure mon Capitano is healthy. If not, OL should have corrected that in short order.

I descend to the jungle floor and remove my filament. The locals have noticed that Captain Serra isn't a superhero, and the looks he's getting are a good deal less friendly.

"Do they speak Portuguese?"

Definitely easier to be convincing in your own tongue. Even if they don't, OL can manage translation.

Ring?

"At least some of them do. Hugo Danner certainly didn't speak much Tupi when he got here."

That would have been amusing, to see him slowly pick up the tongue.

I lead the way towards the hut, where… There's a queue, and inside Hugo is taking the time to meet his people in turn.

"…aged a day."

A woman who could be anywhere between twenty and eighty smiles, nodding.

One of the originals who didn't head out, I see.

"I am a great grandmother now, Man-God."

Hugo shakes his head. "How do you manage to take the injection? No needle would pierce your skin. A knife wouldn't work…"

She holds up her right forefinger, whose fingernail looks rather sharp.

Huh. When your body's that tough, the hard parts are tools in themselves. Fingernails like razors; knees, elbows, palm-heels and even foreheads would be like steel hammers... Imagine the mess they could make of someone, even without the old 'rip&tear'...

"The potion of the gods can enter the body anywhere. Our bodies can break out bodies. I prepare and administer it."

"That's-." He notices me. "Ah, I'm sorry, I need to talk to Orange Lantern again."

Ah, the whole application of the formula is a ritual? That's got to be concerning to him...

She looks around, eyeing me wearily for a moment before returning her attention to Hugo. "You will eat with us this evening? All of my children love my stories about your."

He nods, actually smiling. "I'd like that."

Good to see him feeling better, at least. Seeing the children he helped back then (those who survived) grown and healthy must feel heartening.

She leaves the hut, and Captain Serra and I walk past the queue. I awkwardly wave as the people in the queue look at me.

"Sorry."

Polite is definitely the way to go here...

The woman Hugo was talking to gives us a glare as she leaves, then it's just us and the man himself. And everyone queuing outside and a group of people I assume are other Elders talking off to one side.

"Mr Danner, this is Captain Serra."

Well, not a private conversation. I doubt much happens in private anyway, besides things they don't want the children seeing.

Hugo gets up and offers Captain Serra his right hand.

"Captain. Are you alright in English? My Portuguese is a little rusty."

Ah, OL's not translating? I suppose it makes it easier when he has to step away...

"Mister Danner." He takes his hand. "English is fine. Did you know that they still teach your coup attempt in the Academy?"

"Oh? I can't think why. We defeated ourselves."

Oh, god. I shudder at the stories Hugo might hear about himself...

"Yes, but you killed a significant number of Brazilian soldiers first. I believe that the exercise is intended to teach us how to handle unwinnable engagements."

"I hope everyone in the military who's advising the Brazilian government took that class."

How many actually learned from it, though?

"Yes, but there are always people who think it could have been won if they were in command. Focused anti-tank guns or chlorine gas."

"I've spend most of the time since I got out of prison testing exactly what people like me can do. We're too fast for the sort of anti-tank guns they had back then to make much difference. Gas can kill us, but if it doesn't then our lungs heal. Modern weapons are a bit different, but the defending army would have its work cut out. But… You're not here to negotiate. No offense meant…"

Ah, I knew he wouldn't have been twiddling his thumbs or sitting in the lab all the time.

"No, they would not send a captain for that. I am here to confirm your claims concerning the military force of the Accala. If you really have as many people as Orange Lantern has told my superiors that you have. And if they are really as strong as he says."

Hugo looks at me, and I take twelve iron bars out of subspace and float one over to Captain Serra.

Nothing like a practical demonstration.

"If you'd care to check..?"

He tries twisting it, then bangs it against the table. Then he takes his knife out and tries scratching it. He nods, and comes closer and picks another rod at random to subject to the same tests. Then he nods again and passes them both back to me.

Hugo gets up, and they both follow me outside. I pass one bar to Hugo, and he grabs it with both hands and twists it without all that much visible effort.

It just lacks a certain something without the classic Circus Strongman costume.

A couple of small children clap excitedly, and I make momentary eye contact with their adult escorts for affirmation and then reward them with a bar each. The elder child has a little trouble, but manages to bend it into a 'U' shape. The younger's hands are sufficiently small that they're having trouble gripping it properly, but when they squeeze and grip they leave visible impressions in the metal. Right before it pops out of her grip and hits another girl in the head.

Ha! The joy of super-powered littles.

The other girl's head moves a little under the impact-

"Sorry! Sorry!"

-but she clearly isn't hurt and only a little annoyed.

"Be careful!"

And mon Capitano has gone very quiet...

I recover the metal bars. "Would you like to select some others at random?"

"I don't think that you are lying, but I need to get an idea of the Accala's numbers as well."

Hugo nods. "I can show you around a little. But don't go too far away from me. They all know you're coming, but… This is a community, not an army. They don't have that sort of discipline."

Yeah, I suspect disagreements get settled a little more physically than most people would. No hard feelings when you've had your head smacked around fair and square and done the same to the other guy.

"I'll stay with you. I don't want to get ripped apart."

"Then I'll leave the two of you together while I visit Caracas. Excuse me."

Ah, yes, our erstwhile local reporter.

The universe flickers as I appear outside Ms Holguin's office, then I wave through the window at her.

"Ready to go?"

She nods, grabbing her equipment and dashing out of the office. A few moments later I land as she exits the building.

Heh, I doubt she's used to getting the Lois Lane treatment. At least she hasn't gotten kidnapped yet... I hope.

"Is this for real?"

"Very much so, but I'm hopeful that we can avoid open conflict. Ready?"

She nods, and the universe flickers again.

Time to get the public weighing in on matters. I foresee some differing opinions...

A nice quiet transitional scene. Let's hope the government isn't making any stupid deci-... Any hostile stupid decisions. I don't want their rebuttal to the Tribes' ultimatum to be a bombardment.

Corrections:

Our bodies can break out bodies.

Our bodies can break our bodies.

Lucidum · Feb 1, 2020

To be honest, I'm getting a little baffled at how OL is taking this, I understand that he's taken on things much greater whether it be political or militarily. But at this point, OL seems less a participant in these events and more an observer which I think sort of highlights his new/altered morality after enlightenment, especially since this is his homeworld, he showed more emotion about his subordinates going behind his back then he is about a continent that could go to war and lead to a rise in global policies in regulating, restriction and possibly the subjugation of metahumans.

The Vale · Feb 1, 2020

Handlewithcare said:
If they are that long lived and can reproduce than they will, on evolutionary time scales, simply outcompete normal humans.

But of course, technology renders that mute.

If word of this spreads, good looks, long live, damage resistance, superstrength and healing factor, how many people all over the world will holler for these injections? I mean, what parent in their right mind wouldn't want that for their child?

Anti-vaxxers, certain religious groups, Luddites, egotists of various flavours, people pushing political agendas of one sort or another. A minority of people certainly, but such groups exist. Then you get at least a generation or two of integration problems - hard to properly control or discipline a child that can bend steel and finds a steel bar to the head to be barely worth commenting on. It's not like you can choose the child's personality either, and every child throws a tantrum or ten. Bit more problematic when that tantrum might break their parents ribs or kill another toddler.

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Corrections: Our bodies can break our bodies.

Thank you, corrected.

The Chosen One · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
No, the women still have finite eggs.

Conservatively, the number of eggs physically present in the body is still on the order of 10,000 times as many eggs as a mundane Human woman will have an opportunity to use in her reproductive lifetime; so, unless the Danner Formula's longevity delays all aspects of aging except menopause, for some reason, this isn't much of a counterpoint.

Besides, you don't need an evolutionary timescale to see enhanciles directly outcompeting humans in this scene.

Darko · Feb 1, 2020

I think OL was more upset about Vega because most of the people were lying to him for something he may consider pointless, like not getting help from other lanterns who could use the exercise in fighting a advanced civilization without having to worry about killing innocents because every member of said civilization is pure evil, as well as having an easier time in rescuing the hostages on the planet and losing members of their own side when lanterns could have helped them as well as the fact that the people he helped lied to him. Also while he is enlightened he is still human and can have some odd priorities. Remember he hated Nabu more than he did Klarion and that was for personal reasons, hurting his friend, while what Nabu did was horrible it is still saintly compared to what Klarion did, but OL almost always has a note of anger when thinking or speaking about Nabu and not about Klarion. If it is a personal matter for OL then he can become upset or pissed, but what is happening in Brazil is more well clinical and not personal.

Yeah on second thought having children with super strength can be a bit problematic.

RichardWhereat · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Except not, because 'moot' means either an issue open for debate, or a matter of no practical value or importance because it's hypothetical. I think you actually mean a moo point.

Like a cow's opinion?

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

The Chosen One said:
Conservatively, the number of eggs physically present in the body is still on the order of 10,000 times as many eggs as a mundane Human woman will have an opportunity to use in her reproductive lifetime; so, unless the Danner Formula's longevity delays all aspects of aging except menopause, for some reason, this isn't much of a counterpoint.

Besides, you don't need an evolutionary timescale to see enhanciles directly outcompeting humans in this scene.

Huh. Hadn't realised that there were so many. I guess they don't have to worry on that score, either.

Chaoswind · Feb 1, 2020

The arms race is on don't bet on the tribes. They may be the catalyst that kicks everyone into high gear, but they aren't going to be winning much of anything if they start the fight.

I wonder if THIS is what ends up making Batman dislike Paul because the Rubicon has been crossed and the cat is out of the bag. The first things south America will acquire are cold guns and plasma lances for their conventional militaries, then they will negotiate with either Russia or Lex Luthor for the power armor, heck I can see them buying a few dolmen gates from Atlantis so they can cheat their way into a network they can use to quickly relocate troops.

(A gate nexus in a very well defended military base, with the other gate pairs being inside paradrop planes), is cheap enough that most other countries are going to want such a setup too and the UK will probably dismantle the few gates they already have and will repurpose them to facilitate army deployments.

And NO the gates don't require to be fixed in a location, Aqualad, Tempest and Aquagirl have been running around with dolmen gates tied to the ocean (to facilitate water supply) for more than a year in universe and more than half a decade out of universe.

Nero200 · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
"I've spend most of the time since I got out of prison testing exactly what people like me can do.

Spent.

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

Nero200 said:
Spent.

Thank you, corrected.

Ace Dreamer · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
18th March
...
She looks around, eyeing me wearily for a moment

Should that be 'warily'? I don't see why she is likely to be tired...

I am finding the development of this situation... interesting. Getting out of this without major socio-political change (or OL de-Dannerizing the locals) would seem to be a major challenge.

ForeverShogo · Feb 1, 2020

Pretty sure the tribe's women will be entering menopause when other women would. One of the causes of menopause is a woman running out of eggs. Which usually happens in their late 40s or early 50s.

Bolo · Feb 1, 2020

Worst thing that can happen is go after multiple countries at once. So yeah let's do that....

zerofarad · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
She looks around, eyeing me wearily for a moment before returning her attention to Hugo.

Ace Dreamer said:
Should that be 'warily'? I don't see why she is likely to be tired...

Agreed: in the context of her other reactions, warily (cautious) seems way more likely than wearily (tired).

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

Ace Dreamer said:
Should that be 'warily'? I don't see why she is likely to be tired.

Thank you, corrected.

ForeverShogo said:
Pretty sure the tribe's women will be entering menopause when other women would. One of the causes of menopause is a woman running out of eggs. Which usually happens in their late 40s or early 50s.

Turns out? It isn't. Came up a little way up the page. Most women go through menopause with thousands left.

SIDoragon · Feb 1, 2020

Batman is going to be pissed when he is forced to get a Danner injection to keep up with crime in Gotham. His most powerful weapon is his mind, but that doesn't mean much when Danner-Joker hits him in the head.

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

SIDoragon said:
Batman is going to be pissed when he is forced to get a Danner injection to keep up with crime in Gotham. His most powerful weapon is his mind, but that doesn't mean much when Danner-Joker hits him in the head.

How would Mr Napier get enhanced by the Danner formula? Unless he's on good terms with a biomantically-inclined Lantern, he'd need to be a foetus to get any benefit.

I mean, he could inject himself with it. It just wouldn't do much unless he was pregnant.

Bramble Thorn · Feb 1, 2020

AtomicGeneral25 said:
That's really the key question here, isn't it. "Are the tribes actually expecting that these demands will be met?" Asking for completely unreasonable things is a time honored tradition in negotiation, especially between groups that hate each other.

Also, an opening demand like this is a good way to let the other side know what the likely consequences would be if they do end up going to war, and the tribes win. Because if you lose a war, the bottom pretty much drops out of your negotiating position, and the other side gets to do pretty much whatever it wants.

And it helps that it is what the tribes actually want to happen. To acknowledge that the further away from that initial position you try to make your counter offers, the more you are asking them to give up, and the less you should expect them to like it, and the more you need to take that into account when working on a compromise.

The Chosen One said:
Conservatively, the number of eggs physically present in the body is still on the order of 10,000 times as many eggs as a mundane Human woman will have an opportunity to use in her reproductive lifetime; so, unless the Danner Formula's longevity delays all aspects of aging except menopause, for some reason, this isn't much of a counterpoint.

Don't eggs go bad before they run out? I don't know if that is a separate issue from menopause, or what triggers menopause...

It could be they have the same number of fertile years as a normal person, and after their 40s? become infertile like unenhanced females. (Albeit still looking like they are in their 20s.)

RichardWhereat said:
Like a cow's opinion?

Yup. It does matter. It's 'Moo.'

Vaermina · Feb 1, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
How would Mr Napier get enhanced by the Danner formula? Unless he's on good terms with a biomantically-inclined Lantern, he'd need to be a foetus to get any benefit.

I mean, he could inject himself with it. It just wouldn't do much unless he was pregnant.

If a Lantern can do it that means there are technological ways to do it.

Which means it's only a matter of time till someone scitzotech's a way to do it.

Mquz · Feb 1, 2020

Vaermina said:
If a Lantern can do it that means there are technological ways to do it.

Which means it's only a matter of time till someone scitzotech's a way to do it.

All joker needs is a good biomancer, and those might not be that hard to find.

The Chosen One · Feb 1, 2020

Bramble Thorn said:
Don't eggs go bad before they run out? I don't know if that is a separate issue from menopause, or what triggers menopause...

It could be they have the same number of fertile years as a normal person, and after their 40s? become infertile like unenhanced females. (Albeit still looking like they are in their 20s.)

Honestly, I made my last post with Google and Napkin Math, so, I'm not a gynecologist, and don't know the exact combination of biological mechanisms that contributes to the particular kind of decay that ultimately results in infertility, but as someone with an opinion on the internet, I think if the Formula had such miraculous preservative and regenerative effects on every part of the body except the ova and uterus, with the overall effect of restricting the reproductive rate of the new subspecies,

It would imply, to me, some degree of agency in the alchemy, with an intent to regulate its own use; and I don't think Zoat is any more likely to introduce the Strength Force than he is the Speed Force.

Stsword · Feb 1, 2020

Mquz said:
All joker needs is a good biomancer, and those might not be that hard to find.

Or a medical nanite researcher like one David Kim.

Pity Zoat wasn't a fan, a superhero whose origin is that he cured death with nanotechnology would fit right in with Paul's transhuman leanings.

Mr Zoat · Feb 1, 2020

Stsword said:
Or a medical nanite researcher like one David Kim.

Pity Zoat wasn't a fan, a superhero whose origin is that he cured death with nanotechnology would fit right in with Paul's transhuman leanings.

No, he'd wreck it.

Yog · Feb 1, 2020

One has to think that the transformative societal effects of the Danner formula would be fascinating in the tribes. I mean, at this point there is a family that has four generations of Danner enhanciles in it. Family dynamic should be fascinating, where great grandmother is still fully active, looks to be in her twenties, can pass for a sister to grandmother, mother and daughter, and might be actively dating (if she is not happily married).

There's also a point that Danner enhancile women likely can only have Danner enhancile babies, because a normal fetus is unlikely to survive to maturity in their womb (or the process of birth), simply due to the forces involved (the mother would crush the baby).

Also, what kind of lifespan are we talking here? I don't think it has ever been firmly established. If someone in her eighties can pass for someone in her twenties, then simple extrapolation gives the projected lifespan of at least three hundred years.

Ganurath · Feb 1, 2020

Yog said:
Also, what kind of lifespan are we talking here? I don't think it has ever been firmly established. If someone in her eighties can pass for someone in her twenties, then simple extrapolation gives the projected lifespan of at least three hundred years.

Alternately, and this might sound crazy, the healing factor of the Danner formula repairs telomeres, so... clinical immortality?

Maxx Crowley · Feb 2, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
No, he'd wreck it.

I'm legitimately curious as to how so?

Stsword · Feb 2, 2020

Yog said:
Also, what kind of lifespan are we talking here? I don't think it has ever been firmly established. If someone in her eighties can pass for someone in her twenties, then simple extrapolation gives the projected lifespan of at least three hundred years.

It would take someone dying from old age to establish that, and that hasn't happened to a Danner enhancile yet.

From the comics the age retardant factor would seem to be variable, actually. Although Zoat doesn't seem to be using that aspect.

Here's Iron, born sometime around 1924 since he was a high school senior in 42, shaking hands with Superman in 2011.

Note that he's had that skunk stripe since WW2, if not sooner.

Hugo, while still looking vigorous, looked older during WW2

And Iron's son Walter, who inherited superstrength and durability, looked like an evil Clint Eastwood.

Frank Iannetta · Feb 2, 2020

Age of menopause seems to be at least in part genetically determined, although earlier menopause occurs with toxic factors to the ovaries, such as smoking and surgery to the ovaries and uterus. Part of perimenopause seems to be the aging of the ovaries, so it can not respond to follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone from the pituitary, so hormone production slows and ultimately ceases. Since the Danner formula gives regenerative benefits, it is logical that the ovaries would last longer, so women would be able to conceive at later ages. The oldest verified woman to conceive naturally was 59 years old.

Yes, I am a physician.

Vaermina · Feb 2, 2020

I feel the need to point out here that if it really genetic aging you would have 20 year olds that still looked like children.

Odds are the healing just counteracts the negative effects of aging keeping them relatively healthy till a person hits the point where they basically fall apart.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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