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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Reader mode
BritBiscuit said:
I would say that the 'something more besides' could be giving Candance the knowledge that Celestia does still care, enough to take time, no matter how small to show up on her big day, she may not have officiated the wedding, she may not have been there for long but she still made the effort to show up. And to Candance a pony who is filled with self doubt about her competence and her relationships to the point that she sticks to more formal addresses when talking to Celestia, that can mean alot.
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What BritBiscuit is saying. Because remember, this is what Cadence is currently thinking:
OurLadyOfWires said:
Despite her content and distracted expression, you think you know what she is truly thinking about.

After all, she is talking about Shining's parents. About Shining's mother, who introduced her to her current husband-to-be. About Shining's father, as she vaguely recalls the lessons on magic he taught her while she was still getting used to the horn on her head.

And of course, she also tells you about her… "Auntie" Celestia.

However, it is painfully obvious to you that none of those ponies are around anymore.

And she knows that.

Oh, she definitely knows that.

Still, she keeps talking. About the good memories she has, and the great things that happened to her as she learned how to act more like a Princess.

That is, until she reaches the present. Until her stories end, a few months back from today, and she realizes she has nothing else to tell you that might be a happy thought.
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OurLadyOfWires said:
That she loved those ponies. Her mother who she never met, her father who taught her… Shining's parents, the maternal figure that was Princess Celestia. She loved them all. She loves them so much that she can't bring herself to hate them, or even resent them, for leaving her behind.
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Right now, she thinks that Celestia has left her. And it is true, you know? In 4 out of 5 options, Celestia - functionally Cadance's mother figure - is not even there. At all. On the most special day of her life. She might as well be dead.

And it was like that for about a year now. First, Celestia abandoned her to search for Luna. Understandable, excusable, but excuses do not heal wounds inflicted. Then, she Celestia was absent because Chrysalis!Luna was draining her. Again, not Celestia's fault, but she wasn't there for Cadance. Then, well. Then, Angry Sun Horse.

For a year, Celestia gave Cadance at best a few phrases a day. Maybe less, possibly much less.

Cadance can't bring herself to hate her. Maybe she can't. But it is not a healthy relationship.

Cadance says happiness of everypony would bring her joy, but it is not the whole truth, isn't it? It was incredibly important to her that she is marrying Shining. So, in situation like this...

Wouldn't knowledge that Cadence's mother did not forget her would be incredibly uplifting? Even if it is just a small step, it will give Cadance hope.

Harmony is important, and ponykind is its foundation, but it is the Alicorns that are its Champions. Harmony needs that wound healed just as well, and if Celestia doesn't show up...

Can she make up for that, in the future?

And this is love. Motherhood is a part of Cadance's domain. This is a wound that Cadance can, perhaps, endure, but is is a wound that otherwise would be left to fester, rot, scar.
 
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> can't get blood from a stone

I… uh. Huh. I'm sorry, just, did people forget that we've got magical lores and bullshit sacrifice rituals that often times don't actually require literal blood?

Like, I can accept worries that maybe Discord could escape if we tried something, or isn't actually trapped or whatever. Those are valid concerns. But being concerned because he's a stone? I just…

The Forge bonus exists. If breaking Discord's stone form actually killed him, I am about 99.999999999999% certain that it would still count, whether there's actual physical blood or not. Come on guys. :V
 
Yeah after thinking it over some more and reading other people say things similar to my thoughts I think I have gone from option 4 or 5 to just option 4, I feel Celestia needs this even if we don't.
[] A Royal guest
 
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Starlit Horizon said:
Also, on unrelated note. I don't believe it was noted yet:
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Also the lore of Moth has changed from the Lore of the Woods to the Lore of Chaos.

DelightedOne said:
-Strengthening Harmony after the lights got a little doused by everything that happened since that is the only way we have to deal with the CS mood.
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Why would we want to do this?

Moving up the worms victory condition seems like a bad idea.

Venerable Ro said:
Discord at this exact moment, since given our luck he'll turn out to be a Name of the Seven-Coiled or The Wheel or something wildly inconvenient like that. You can't get blood from a stone, this is a well-known fact
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???

Discord is an Outsider he can't be a Name.
 
ok, so, quick summary for myself and maybe others.

threadmark by threadmark. Maybe if it's good enough @OurLadyOfWires can threadmark it.

VERY QUICK SKIM AND RECAP: ALL OF TURN 17

THE MEMORABLE REALIZATION

Selene has a dream... or a nightmare... about knocks on doors. When she opens those doors, nothing is behind them, but OTHER doors somewhere in the dream-mansion start with their own knocking sounds.

Behind the final door, where the knock was shorter and quieter, are the Dreamlands.

And in the Dreamlands, Velvet was waiting.

Selene, for just a moment, remembers

But Velvet stops her, right at the end. Selene's not fully ready yet.

And so Selene wakes up, still not fully remembering, as the memories went to her other self. But she remembers how she felt. She remembered how close she was to remembering.

And she's angry at Velvet for taking it from her

THE MONSTROUS MOTHER

We summon Mareinette. the ritual includes the sacrifice of a large black boar, which we use reagents to keep alive for long enough to be stabbed and bled enough to satisfy the ritual requirements.

Baldomare does not appear at the ritual site though. She appears in Silky's bedroom. Only a panicked and immobile and crying and terrified Soft Sweeps standing between them

and Velvet stares down the (actually very polite, for an eldritch monster) Mareinette, after she (tries to) reassure us that she means us and Silky no ill.

she also says she understands what we're thinking, what we're feeling, and that she can't wait to TEACH US.

The implication is that she hopes to turn us into something like her. to have us WILLINGLY eat Silky.

Mareinette leaves the room, and finds residence in a wine cellar.

TURN 17:

we can now visit the Ruined Church.

THE MONSTER OF THE VELVET ESTATE

There is a monster living in the Velvet Estate.

well, more than one.

Selene goes to ask the Daughter of Axe to help find the door that holds her memories. She says she'll do "something" to help, but has a price.

...earlier in the day, The Daughter of Axe met Mareinette, and threatened her to keep away from "the hatchlings". Mareinette only laughs, replying that...

well, the Daughter of Axe knows/believes that soon, Selene will be gone, and finds it depressing.

She knows we share something with Soft Sweeps, and finds it concerning

One is chance, two is a warning… and three is a pattern.

The Daughter of Axe is convinced we mean to eventually eat Silky.

She is convinced... that there's TWO monsters in the Velvet Estate.

TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 1

a pleasant afternoon with our closest friends (Fluttershy, Jade, Rarity). While COMET is going to spend time with Stormchaser (still can't believe they've somehow become sort of friends...)

We finally read the Lantern 6 book, and study the edge 3 artifact. we reach lantern 4 edge 4.

TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 2

We meet Midday Dew, from the (our personal nickname for it) Eclipse, the "researchers". He delivers us Candle Dust, basically a Lantern 0 one-use artifact that gives someone a chance to reveal a changeling. (a 1 in 3 chance)

We're also given our first target for the Bureau. The Blueblood Family, the descendants of unicorn royalty and the highest ranked nobles in Equestria.

THE MOST DELIGHTFUL OF VISITS

we're visited in our sleep by Neighnia. we only survive thanks to the Wrong Key we kept.

We realize Copper is trying to kill us. We also assume she was also responsible for the previous attempt, the far weaker EiB ritual that hit us the previous turn.
TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 3

We send a (relatively weak due to bad rolls) Path to Nightmare ritual attack against Copper.

The world is reintroduced to the concept of Occult War. Baldomare is vindicated. She was oh so surprised we were not all already killing each others in our competition to reach Glory...

We also get a grail lesson from Baldomare (in the form of a nice story that could be about anypony and nopony at all, about a pony that's born, grows, wishes, desires, lusts...)

And we get the Knock tier 4 influence (which comes with 2 scraps)... by having Axe bit us and poison us.

Velvet is pretty angry once she wakes up. She outright intimidates and screams Axe into submission.

Grail 4 get.
ONLY YOU

Celestia summons Lady Fair Trial. She basically says she has lost faith in ponykind, and when Fair Trial says there's still goodness in her fellow ponies, she's made the supreme and uncontested judge of Equestria's supreme court, with the power to basically break and make laws

It's up to Lady Fair Trial, and to those few ponies still trusted By Celestia (presumably Velvet and Midday Dew from Eclipse) to prove there's still good in Equestria. That there still are ponies worth of trust and power.

Lady Fair Trial is the last chance of ponykind to prove themselves worthy.

TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 4

Cadance talks to us about her doubts in her relationship with Shining, about how she wants him to ask her to marry him.

We reassure her, and make sure he asks her.

Also Velvet meets Lady Fair Trial, and is convinced to have our prisoners be submitted to a fair trial (pun not intended, I swear!) to prove to the princess and Equestria that... well, that we can be trusted, and that the Lunar Bureau is not a secret police above the law and beyond anyone's reach.

Basically it's a way to reassure the common pony that no, we will not disappear them into the night without a chance to defend themselves.

TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 5

Shining is forced (by us) to propose to Cadance. Nobody will ever know

We explore the Ruined Church and climb upward.

We climb through the Concursum. We reach a cliff overlooking the Worm Museum, and meet Biedde, the Edge Name, Last Soldier of the Colonel, keeping guard over it.
NOT AGAIN

Silky gets to see (in a dream) Velvet Axe being dragged back to her prison in the Mansus by countless chain.

...damn, I actually felt REALLY sorry for the Axe here!
TURN 17 - RESULTS, PART 6

Soft Sweeps NEARLY hugs us, but freezes up at the last moment. CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!

She also NEARLY calls us MOM! CURSES AGAIN!

Thanks to Jade, we learn the Rite of the Mother and Father. The Ritual that will awaken Luna, and have us say goodbye to Selene forever.
THE THING THAT KEEPS US GOING

We see Soft Sweeps stealing the leadership of her support-group for people who lost friends and family recently / start her own cult grow and take charge of her support group, and help more ponies.

They grow so fast!

THE FINAL REALIZATION

Selene is angry. she accidentally takes it out a bit on Silky, scaring her.

then, when Velvet tries to scold her, she stands up to her (though it's in a dream). It's the final Realization, the edge one.

She is ready

A PARENT'S DECISION

Stormchasers begs us for one more month to have Selene be happy and to live as a full and real family.

Next turn, he'll take part in the Rite of the Mother and Father, and Selene will be no more.


TURN 18 SOON TO COME. I'm taking a break and instead reading the last update and the discussion. I'll write the summary to turn 18 later on, or maybe in a day or two. we'll see.
 
A tough choice.

A troublesome guest gives us an in with Fair Trial. Considering the mandate given to her by Celestia and the fact we made the decision to have her work independently of the Bureau this is more useful then I think people give it credit for.

A disturbed guest likewise gives us an in with the other major independent faction. Being able to influence Midday Dew is important considering what his group is researching and the dangerous game we're playing with Celestia.

Honestly a Royal Guest is the on I'm least interested in. I'm really curious about the box and what's in it, plus there's metaphoric weight to her showing up, but I'm just not as interested.

I'm leaning towards A Self Invited Guest and a host of guests.
The Baldomare option fills the immediate need. We need an Outsider and she gives us one without having to search for it. Obviously it won't be that easy, but getting the first step out of the way could Potentially save a lot of AP. Plus you can never go wrong with more Baldomare.
A host of guests really calls to me though. Considering the previous few updates where we destroyed the Woods having this as a counter balance seems appropriate. While not as immediately useful, potentially stabilizing the Wake a bit makes it easier for Velvet to operate overall. I still feel in many ways Harmony seems to act as a counter point to the Wolf. Plus the implication of Cadence having a greater effect on the world is useful considering Velvet's friendship with her.
 
Starlit Horizon said:
After all, if it was that important, eternal eclipse of (false) Luna's return would make zero sense.
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You do know that eclipse was just the sign Celestia would give when Luna was found right?

Shaper47 said:
Why would we want to do this?

Moving up the worms victory condition seems like a bad idea.
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...


I honestly forgot about you.

But that is not how it works, the Worms only win if WE lose, making Harmony stronger will just... make it stronger it won't make the Worms more powerful or make it easier for them to reach Equestria(it might even make it harder for them to survive).
 
DelightedOne said:
You do know that eclipse was just the sign Celestia would give when Luna was found right?


...


I honestly forgot about you.

But that is not how it works, the Worms only win if WE lose, making Harmony stronger will just... make it stronger it won't make the Worms more powerful or make it easier for them to reach Equestria(it might even make it harder for them to survive).
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The Worms don't even win if Velvet loses, as we instead take over Soft Sweeps and proceed to Wolfmax to victory.
Which is admittedly suboptimal, but at least it's not the Worms.
 
DelightedOne said:
You do know that eclipse was just the sign Celestia would give when Luna was found right?
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Of course I am. I probably shouldn't have used the word "eternal" , after all it was just for a week, although I initially misremembered it to be longer. Still, it was a sign that lasted for a while, and if lack of true night was actively detrimental to Luna - and "Luna" played being weakened - it doesn't make sense to have a symbol that actively harms the rescued princess.

Therefore, Alicorn and their domain are not that strongly linked.
 
The Worms winning is a Velvet loss but a Velvet loss isn't necessarily a Worm victory.
Edit: well its a Velvet loss if we dont all collectively go insane and throw out all our character building to side Velvet with the Worms.

Also I think what shaper was trying to say is that if people are unhappy then they make less light for Harmony which draws Worms in as a beacon in the dreamlands. However this makes alot of assumptions about what effects the size of the beacon for the Worms, do people have to be happy to make light or is it merely the number of people alive (and thus doors in the dreamlands) that make light.
 
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OurLadyOfWires said:
EFFECT: Princess Cadance receives a gift from Celestia, a small jewel box to be opened later. And perhaps something more besides.
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Just as a random reminder, but I'll point out that Celestia does have access to Lore artifacts, and we once could have asked her for one as a gift.
 
angelsadvocate666 said:
> can't get blood from a stone

I… uh. Huh. I'm sorry, just, did people forget that we've got magical lores and bullshit sacrifice rituals that often times don't actually require literal blood?

Like, I can accept worries that maybe Discord could escape if we tried something, or isn't actually trapped or whatever. Those are valid concerns. But being concerned because he's a stone? I just…

The Forge bonus exists. If breaking Discord's stone form actually killed him, I am about 99.999999999999% certain that it would still count, whether there's actual physical blood or not. Come on guys. :V
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I think you may have misunderstood what they're saying.

They are not saying that Discord being a statue would prevent him from being a valid sacrifice (at least in of itself). Rather, they are saying that if he was a Name of a God-from-Stone, he would not be an Outsider, and thus cannot be used to open the lock around Glory.
 
Shaper47 said:
Discord is an Outsider he can't be a Name.
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You're right, I completely lost track of what I was doing. Honestly, where is my head these days...

Pittauro said:
Mareinette leaves the room, and finds residence in a wine cellar.
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We really ought to do something about that, I was advocating for invoking proper hospitality rites to get her into a more clear-cut paradigm, something less ambiguous and volatile. One thing at a time though.

BritBiscuit said:
Yeah after thinking it over some more and reading other people say things similar to my thoughts I think I have gone from option 4 or 5 to just option 4, I feel Celestia needs this even if we don't.
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I myself am definitely convinced of it needing to be either 4 or 5, but I'm deeply concerned about what Paranoia and last night's escapade are going to ferment into without a counterbalancing influence. Lovely avatar by the way, I like it!
 
angelsadvocate666 said:
Just as a random reminder, but I'll point out that Celestia does have access to Lore artifacts, and we once could have asked her for one as a gift.
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So do you want to ask Candace to just give/loan her wedding gift she recieved from her Mother/Auntie figure?
Also it could be a more sentimental or even magical gift such as a cure for Shinings and Twilights broken horns or even just something mundane.
 
DelightedOne said:
or make it easier for them to reach Equestria
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Er, that's literally how it works.

Harmony shinning attracts worms, Harmony shinning even brighter attracts more and bigger worms.

We even have two victory conditions that revolve around getting Harmony to stop it with this worm attacting malarkey.
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
"For the first time in our lives, we know that we are ready for this!"
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Is that a Hazbin Hotel reference? You really like that show uhh Our Bird of Wires?

Anyway, nice to be here, i don't think that i will vote and comment as much as i did in SV, but i will still try to contribute to the story.

Okay then, what options do we have here...

...Hmmm...some good ones, i will wait for a bit.
 
BritBiscuit said:
So do you want to ask Candace to just give/loan her wedding gift she recieved from her Mother/Auntie figure?
Also it could be a more sentimental or even magical gift such as a cure for Shinings and Twilights broken horns or even just something mundane.
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Oh I don't want anything, just noting that it could be that, and Cadence having a Lore artifact could cause all sorts of things to happen.
Limabot said:
I think you may have misunderstood what they're saying.

They are not saying that Discord being a statue would prevent him from being a valid sacrifice (at least in of itself). Rather, they are saying that if he was a Name of a God-from-Stone, he would not be an Outsider, and thus cannot be used to open the lock around Glory.
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I… Suppose that could be the case. Still really weird because Discord is definitely an Outsider, the thing Baldomare tells us about—on the off chance it's not Discord—is explicitly an Outsider. So I'm not sure why anyone would bother arguing that the option to learn about it wouldn't count, but I've seen more confused arguments before so I'm not entirely surprised.
 
Limabot said:
They are not saying that Discord being a statue would prevent him from being a valid sacrifice (at least in of itself). Rather, they are saying that if he was a Name of a God-from-Stone, he would not be an Outsider, and thus cannot be used to open the lock around Glory.
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We know he's not, though? As in, we know he's an Outsider, not a Stone-Name.
 
Just a reminder to everyone one way or another Luna is coming back soon which will either solve or drastically change the Celestia situation. Making actions to try to change that slightly will likely soon be overshadowed.
 
Calico J said:
I'm glad the ceremony went well, just for Cadence's sake.

Personally I would have to agree that a way to introduce Midday to Lore could be really valuable. And the phrase "As he was the very first scientist to be woken up, screaming, by what would later be known as "the innovator's curse"." makes it sound like this will be an ongoing problem.
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Oh yeah, it is probably a permanent thing.
The Wolf replaced the Woods as the motivation for learning. Instead of curiosity we will have the wolves chasing as motivator.


Shaper47 said:
Why would we want to do this?

Moving up the worms victory condition seems like a bad idea.
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Since famously a moth character could never be wrong or dishonest.
Harmony could never be able to fight back against the worms.
Nope, one infected (and freed) alicorn is prove that Harmony means worms winning.
</sarcasm>

You not being there to peddle your conspiracy theory was kinda nice.
 
I can't remember did we ever throw a bachelorette party for Candace before the wedding and did Shining's old guard friends throw a bachelor party or were we too busy?
And did Shining have a suit as good as Candace's dress? How many layers on the wedding cake? These are the real questions we should be asking people.
 
Starlit Horizon said:
Of course I am. I probably shouldn't have used the word "eternal" , after all it was just for a week, although I initially misremembered it to be longer. Still, it was a sign that lasted for a while, and if lack of true night was actively detrimental to Luna - and "Luna" played being weakened - it doesn't make sense to have a symbol that actively harms the rescued princess.

Therefore, Alicorn and their domain are not that strongly linked.
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Okay.

And you also made me want to ramble a bit so here it comes:
Luna's thing is the moon(and also her name) so woudn't it make sense that she would be fine with an eclipse? Her "Princess of the Night" title seems to have been given because she controls the moon instead of the opposite(and also to match with Celestia in the sun/moon, day/night concept) so unless something broke the moon or affected it negatively she would be fine.

That actually makes me remember how Cadance acted somewhat... desperate when we met after Paranoia's birth since she could feel his influence across Equestria(nothing kills Love like Paranoia) and we were untouched by it.

After reading that Princess Cadance Quest Omake written by the QM it becomes even more clear that the lack of love had some effect on Cadance since her sanity was damaged because of it(even though it is not canon), makes me think that she is more vulnerable since her concept is more, you know, conceptual than the literal sun and moon.

Shaper47 said:
Er, that's literally how it works.

Harmony shinning attracts worms, Harmony shinning even brighter attracts more and bigger worms.

We even have two victory conditions that revolve around getting Harmony to stop it with this worm attacting malarkey.
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I said reach not find. The difference is subtle but substantial.

The Worms have always found the world but have a lot of trouble getting inside of it, the only Worm possession that happened since the Age of the Hours was Luna's and it ended relatively well(until the Will of the Woods came around) and we know that if any mortal had been infected after the Lores were forgotten there woudn't be a Quest, especially since the Names were stuck on the Mansus/uninterested in the Wake till the Master decided to come out to play.

And yes you are correct about the lights attracting more Worms, that is why we need to teach Harmony how to hide(or burn them all as soon as they get too close).
 
Shaper47 said:
Er, that's literally how it works.

Harmony shinning attracts worms, Harmony shinning even brighter attracts more and bigger worms.

We even have two victory conditions that revolve around getting Harmony to stop it with this worm attacting malarkey.
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Glory shining attracts worms. Glory shining even brighter attracts more and bigger worms.

We even have a victory condition that revolves around dousing all such lights to stop it with this worm attracting malarkey.

Any arguments about Harmony attracting the Worms can also be made about the Glory attracting the Worms, except the the Glory's faction dropped the ball so hard Harmony was able to step up and try something different.
 
Gyldir said:
Since famously a moth character could never be wrong or dishonest.
Harmony could never be able to fight back against the worms.
Nope, one infected (and freed) alicorn is prove that Harmony means worms winning.
</sarcasm>
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It's a shame you lack the reading compression to remember how we got a bunch of the information from Luna and more importantly that we have had Baldomare summoned.

Baldomare who would tell us if the Master was lying about the Harmony attracting worms deal.
 
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