Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

I do suspect SH! (At minimum feels like it might be relevant for finding the Frangiclave.)

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It might be relevant for finding Frangiclave, yes. But I kind of doubt that's the errand that DoA thinks she's sending us on, considering that she doesn't seem to actually know where the Frangiclave is. Granted, it might still involve finding something, but she refuses to tell us until we actually go to do her errand :-/

Edit:

Not much but something, lol.

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Clearly the answer is to guess at random! We have, what, a 12.5% chance of getting it right?

Edit 2:
Actually, uh, I just had a thought. What if it's something akin to a Mansus expedition? I.e., we have to clear several different-Lore obstacles to get/do whatever DoA's errand is? Because considering how our last Mansus expedition went, maybe throwing 3 AP at something that dangerous while we're still at 2 Health wouldn't be a great idea

 

[Rafuki22]

Because considering how our last Mansus expedition went, maybe throwing 3 AP at something that dangerous while we're still at 2 Health wouldn't be a great idea

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If people insist about doing Axe Sacrament then we should atleast spend 1 action on it so that we can scout ahead.

Or we could do a conditional, if we don't use the secret histories re-roll in x, like Velvet secret histories sacrament, then go for it.

Ha, wouldn't it be funny if we get a nat 100 and we speedrun the sacrament after all the worries?

 

[spiderhellian]

Actually, uh, I just had a thought. What if it's something akin to a Mansus expedition? I.e., we have to clear several different-Lore obstacles to get/do whatever DoA's errand is? Because considering how our last Mansus expedition went, maybe throwing 3 AP at something that dangerous while we're still at 2 Health wouldn't be a great idea

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Hey, I think most of us want to do Forge Redemption next turn, so we'll be at 3!

It feels odd that it would be an expedition when eg Baldomare expedition sacraments just… tell us that, but I guess it fits for DoA to be hella less communicative.

Either way I'd rather over invest (because I assume Bird will let us choose whether to proceed/refund actions if we don't need them) than under.

 

[Shaper47]

maybe throwing 3 AP at something that dangerous while we're still at 2 Health wouldn't be a great idea

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Hmm, maybe something like 1 AP Forge's Redemption (Cadence and Selene are invited as witnesses), 1 AP SH Sacrament and 3 AP DoA Knock Sacrament.

So we'd be doing it on 3 health.

Followers something like; Jade Whistle and Fluttershy/Comet (cover bases, 1 Velvet AP), Rarity (career), Mareinette (Moth Sacrament prep), Biedde (dig a hole), Baldomare (Outsider search), Household servants (book search Ponyville), Velvet Axe (Lesson), Neighnia (winter lesson), Selene (train?).

Planned under the assumption we'd grab Neighnia, if we don't grab her. Probably send Baldomare, Biedde and Selene after her for recruitment.

The real question is what to ask Steppes.

 

[Pittauro]

Hmm, maybe something like 1 AP Forge's Redemption (Cadence and Selene are invited as witnesses), 1 AP SH Sacrament and 3 AP DoA Knock Sacrament.

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I don't think there's much of a point in doing ONE action on SH Sacrament only. I'd rather do them both in the same turn and finish it once and for all, probably on the turn AFTER that.

Especially because there's so much stuff we need to do that would help immediately.

studying the artifacts or one of the likely fleeting opportunity actions, for example. Or exploring more of the Mansus, we still have areas leftover in the Ashen Wastes, Broken Starways and beyond the Church.

 

[Sveta08]

I will not count Velvet's Actions before we see how the assault goes. Not until we see how the outsider search goes. Not until we see what will be.

 

[Rafuki22]

and 3 AP DoA Knock Sacrament.

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Still seems to dangerous, it is as if people haven't learned from gambling.

I don't think there's much of a point in doing ONE action on SH Sacrament only. I'd rather do them both in the same turn and finish it once and for all, probably on the turn AFTER that.

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If we want to be safe we could put a conditional that we would do a third attempt on our Secret Histories Sacrament if we don't waste the reroll on the second.

I will not count Velvet's Actions before we see how the assault goes. Not until we see how the outsider search goes. Not until we see what will be.

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Sensible.

 

[Shaper47]

I don't think there's much of a point in doing ONE action on SH Sacrament only. I'd rather do them both in the same turn and finish it once and for all, probably on the turn AFTER that.

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It's more efficient to do one action on SH Sacrament only a turn due to our SH reroll per turn.

Much less likely to fail.

This reasoning also supports doing our personal Winter sacrament over 3 turns if we pick it.

studying the artifacts

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I want to wait till we have a Lantern influence from Baldomare first for that.

Way more efficient, get the Lantern influence (2 scraps), study the artifacts with Lantern influence bonus (1 scrap), study Baldomare's beacon in the mansus (1 scap) then perform the conversation. All in one turn.

or one of the likely fleeting opportunity actions, for example

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Tempting but Knock Sacrament is urgent and we've been putting of the other stuff for way to long.

Putting off Forge's Redemption is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Or exploring more of the Mansus, we still have areas leftover in the Ashen Wastes, Broken Starways and beyond the Church.

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Doing that next turn with SH 5 and 3 health would be more efficient and safer.

 

[Pittauro]

I want to wait till we have a Lantern influence from Baldomare first for that.

Way more efficient, get the Lantern influence (2 scraps), study the artifacts with Lantern influence bonus (1 scrap), study Baldomare's beacon in the mansus (1 scap) then perform the conversation. All in one turn.

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what's this about getting one scrap from "Baldomare's Beacon"? That's a fairly baseless guess

 

[spiderhellian]

It's more efficient to do one action on SH Sacrament only a turn due to our SH reroll per turn.

Much less likely to fail.

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I think it's pretty fine to have a plan like:

-SH Sacrament
-SH Sacrament (if we still have the reroll), XXX otherwise.

What I really want is something like
-Sacrament Action x 3

Where Sacrament Action is "Knock Sacrament, if Knock complete/decision is made after first to not continue + SH reroll available then SH Sacrament, if reroll unavailable then XXX."

Definitely getting to conditionality limits, but part of that is the challenge of planning when we want to invest time into something we know very little about.

Hmm, It sorta reminds me of how we do pre-turn summons so we can plan accordingly, knowing their proficiencies and what we have available. Maybe we can do one Knock Sacrament action pre-Velvet Phase? It does seem like it's a quite popular action and having one glimpse of it makes subsequent planning a lot easier...

Edit: eh, I'm not sure this really makes sense, given how late in the turn it happens (we probably want FR first, and an influence, and the lesson…)

 

[Shaper47]

what's this about getting one scrap from "Baldomare's Beacon"? That's a fairly baseless guess

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I wouldn't exactly call it baseless. We get scraps from studying or gaining knowledge of things equal or higher strength in the lore.

Baldomare's beacon does seem like the kind of thing that studying would give a Lantern scrap in.

But to make sure

@OurLadyOfWires How likely does Velvet think she can get a Lantern scrap from studying Baldomare's beacon while having a level 4 Lantern influence on?

 

[Venerable Ro]

I don't think we need to explicate conditions regarding the Knock Sacrament, if Velvet gets it done early Bird isn't going to just shrug and declare the extra actions void, thatd be rather bad form no?

 

[Rafuki22]

I don't think we need to explicate conditions regarding the Knock Sacrament,

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But it would make it so that we don't have to vote about what to spend the extra action.

 

[Venerable Ro]

But it would make it so that we don't have to vote about what to spend the extra action.

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But I like debating obscure minutiae?

 

[spiderhellian]

I don't think we need to explicate conditions regarding the Knock Sacrament, if Velvet gets it done early Bird isn't going to just shrug and declare the extra actions void, thatd be rather bad form no?

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But it would make it so that we don't have to vote about what to spend the extra action.

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Yeah, I'm not worried about the actions being lost.

The issue is that we (probably) want to invest multiple actions in DoA Sacrament, but we have no idea what it entails, how difficult it is, how it'll go. What resources or lores are relevant, how important they are. If we'll want to devote those remaining actions after the first one, and even what our choice of replacement is (e.g. if we lose SH reroll, we probably don't want to do its Sacrament).

It makes sense that Velvet would try to help DoA, and then see if she should indeed devote her entire month to it or not. But we have to make all our plans at the start of the Turn....

It does work as a post-Knock Sacrament action vote of:
1) Continue
2) Do something else

But I'm not sure how we reflect that in Planning. Vote for 3 DoA actions (or however many) and go from there?

 

[Rafuki22]

But I like debating obscure minutiae?

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Oh well, can't argue with that.

But I'm not sure how we reflect that in Planning. Vote for 3 DoA actions (or however many) and go from there?

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Still think that it is too dangerous, but if that's what the people want, so be it.

 

[spiderhellian]

Still think that it is too dangerous, but if that's what the people want, so be it.

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Well, if we can withdraw after one action, it's no "more dangerous" than doing a single action is? Which I hope you don't think of as too dangerous?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Clearly we just have all the Names (except Axe) give us an Influence in one of their Lores, we have our Confidantes call down Influences on Velvet for the others, and Velvet slaps an Influence on herself.

Then we bonzai that Sacrament.

(Though really, we probably only need SH and Grail, because DoA is only stymied by finding things and talking to things, so they are likely the obstacles she needs someone else to tackle. That's not as fun though.)

 

[spiderhellian]

(Though really, we probably only need SH and Grail, because DoA is only stymied by finding things and taking to things, so they are likely the obstacles she needs someone else to tackle. That's not as fun though.)

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Baldomare explained: She's cursed. It's not a matter of obstacles she can't overcome -- she can't get wherever this favour will be taking place at all.

(And it's got to be another history. Right? Right???)

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Baldomare explained: She's cursed. It's not a matter of obstacles she can't overcome -- she can't get wherever this favour will be taking place at all.

(And like, it's got to be another history. Right? Right???)

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Look, that diplomacy malus of hers is absolutely cursed.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Clearly we just have all the Names (except Axe) give us an Influence in one of their Lores, we have our Confidantes call down Influences on Velvet for the others, and Velvet slaps an Influence on herself.

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"Alright chums, let's do this. Veeeeeelvet COVERS!"

"By the Glory she just ran in..."

 

[Sveta08]

I swear, if I didn't like this story so much...
Ahem! Well. After OurLadyofWires did that, I have been a little shocked is all. Pardon for not saying much in regards to planning.

But! Given there is still an attack to happen, and searching to pass, planning anything past 'this would be nice' would feel more a fun mental exercise. However, as is my want, I focused on trying to figure out... mostly unhelpful and unimportant things. It was a fun, if very tedious exercise.



So! The question and goal: What is Daughter of Axes' sacrament? What can we do to prepare for it?


The second question became annoyingly obvious, though I will have to differ to all of your understandings of the lores. What trumps what, what succeeds the others, I couldn't have the foggiest. But, we will have need of whatever passes Heart. Or maybe what we need is Heart. Certainly not Grail. Nor Moth. Don't rightly know. Maybe Forge... Likely Forge or Heart. The chain is made of Heart after all.

But, we should all be on the same page, so here's where to look. Not gonna pull the specific posts, cause that's more editing than I care to do, sorry.
-Meeting Axe: Turn 14 Part 5
-Summoning Axe: The Snakemare of the Manus (just before Turn 15)
-Axes' Return: Not Again (just after Turn 17 Part 5)
-Baldomares' Insight: Turn 19 Part 5
-Speculation: All the Queens Drones (just before Turn 14)

There's much and more out and about, each of the conversations with Silky, to the deal with Selene, both times too. All that's important, but that's much more a Lantern sort of important than really matters right now. Not that it doesn't, just that it isn't for here and now. Clear as mud? Good.


So, what's the sacrament? Well, it's going past the foggy mirror. Unclear as what that is, it's also exactly what it is.
It's a Mirror. Mirrors reflect the viewer, but it's more than that. They hold the image of the beholder, and they can remember, as much as they are projections of that memory. Just look at the Lantern Mirror. So, it's a mirror yes, but a mirror that is foggy. Murky. Muddled. Is it the memory then that's foggy? Or the impression? No, I don't think so.
It's the viewer.

Baldomares' Insight gave us a bit of this. It's that snakes are always the cause of their own problems. The impression was too refracted, too bent in on itself, to see clearly. Twisted around, consuming itself.
Axe, ever and always, has cursed herself for her curse. Not just the chain, but the curse. Two separate things that are themselves consuming each other I would imagine. Too bound up in each other to be something else. Maybe not, but those two ideas are good to keep in mind. Both that there is a chain, and that there is a curse. They might be the same thing, but that's not important.

What's important, is that we see those chains. We see them when she Returns. How they strike and seek and hide and hunt and ever search. We see that chain around her hindleg when we meet her in the Manus. We see how they restrain her. And how it is a curse to ever be where she cannot go. That she cannot look to find the Key that only opens. Cannot look through the foggy mirror, because someone has to look to cast the reflection.



And it's... I don't know. I haven't the foggiest on what it is before it's begun.
But. I have three thoughts on it. All feel important, but I don't know where or how they might fit.

It's like a fingertrap. The more you pull the less likely you are to get out. That self constraining idea exemplified to the being who embodies the idea of escape. A set of four doors that when all open, close a space off.
It's an agreement. A bond willingly made. Axe entered into service an era ago into someone other than her Mother after what she did. Maybe it was hunting of the queens drones. Whoever and whatever it is, it's the bond there. An agreement made, so it has to be a renouncement of that bond. A returnal to the Mother who did what they did.
It's healing. Velvet herself has a chain forged of heart tied around her hindleg, ever guarded and ever binding her. Full of memories she would rather not remember. Histories murky through the foggy mirror. This, here, may be reflected somehow.

I don't know. In the end, this is either overcoming Heart, or Embracing Heart I think. But where, how, why, and what that looks like... I couldn't say.
But, fortunately, that was tedious enough that I don't feel as stressed.

 

[spiderhellian]

But. I have three thoughts on it. All feel important, but I don't know where or how they might fit.

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Well I love speculation on the DoA! And enjoyed yours as well. Can I just make sure I'm following correctly?

1) You think we'll face an obstacle of Heart, and possibly need either Heart something that subverts Heart to pass it? Either way Heart will be a dominant lore theme?
2) You think in addition to the curse placed on her, Axe has kind of… cursed herself as well? (This part I really am not sure I understood correctly)
3) The favour may involve renouncing or altering the deal Axe made after her Mother did what she did? Or in some way returning or communicating with the Mother?

 

[Shaper47]

It's an agreement. A bond willingly made. Axe entered into service an era ago into someone other than her Mother after what she did

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3) The favour may involve renouncing or altering the deal Axe made after her Mother did what she did? Or in some way returning or communicating with the Mother?

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Well if that little hatchling needs a new mother I'm sure Covers can step up.

 

[AuthorTransient]

We need an excuse for how he was healed. MAYBE if we could at least fake a love-fueled healing spell or something...

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I was assuming that we would go along on the Tall Tale expedition and sneak in the Forge Redemption ritual.

It only said that they increase in cost, not that our options, so I kind of doubt it. 2 AP isn't exactly cheap, and at the third rebinding (which is iirc where Bird said we might balk) that could be 3 whole AP, which would make Mareinette AP-neutral to keep around rather than AP-positive. And that's assuming the cost is +1 per rebinding and not like, a flat doubling each time.

Though on that note, I wonder if Mareinette's Heart Sacrament would count as an acceptable offering the same way her Grail Sacrament does? It just might (might!) be more palatable than her Grail one after all

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I was actually assuming that we would eventually need to do the Grail Sacrament to learn how to juice Outsiders. And if we do it as a binding action I wonder if that means we don't have to spend an AP on it

 

[Venerable Ro]

It's like a fingertrap. The more you pull the less likely you are to get out. That self constraining idea exemplified to the being who embodies the idea of escape. A set of four doors that when all open, close a space off.

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Have you read or watched Howl's Moving Castle? The story features a remarkably subtle curse of decrepitude that fed on the victim's belief in the same curse. It was a two-stage thing, the initial curse was a legitimate aging curse of the usual sort, but as the individual in question accepted and habituated to its presence in her life it shifted more and more towards relying on her own certitude to sustain itself.

So much so that when she got caught up in paticular moments the curse fell away until she remembered she was supposed to be decrepit and it reasserted.

Axe is the Name of Knock, whatever she releases shall be freed, whatever she binds shall remain so. Might this not extend even to herself? Axe is a mare of convictions, and if the beliefs of mere mortals shape their realities how much more so might the beliefs of a Name imprison her?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

"Alright chums, let's do this. Veeeeeelvet COVERS!"

"By the Glory she just ran in..."

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When you are rocking 3 Name-Strength Influences, 1 Velvet-Strength Influence, and 1 Jade-Level Influence, you can afford to just run in.

Edit: I just realized we can get even crazier. Luna could call down another 2 Influences! Rarity can do 1! Heck, maybe even Comet for all 9 Influence flavors! Granted, those would be a lot weaker than the Name Influences, but still! An icon of Eldritch power, wrought by our hooves!

 

[Shaper47]

When you are rocking 3 Name-Strength Influences, 1 Velvet-Strength Influence, and 1 Jade-Level Influence, you can afford to just run in.

Edit: I just realized we can get even crazier. Luna could call down another 2 Influences! Rarity can do 1! Heck, maybe even Comet for all 9 Influence flavors!

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Unfortunately only Names or Mareinette can call down influences on others.

So no Jade, Selene or Comet influence.

 

[spiderhellian]

We can only have one Calling of Influence influence at a time… probably for exactly this reason

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Unfortunately only Names or Mareinette can call down influences on others.

So no Jade, Selene or Comet influence.

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Curses. Guess we'll just have to hope that three Max-Level Influences will be enough.

Or if we manage to nab Neighnia, 4 Max-Level Influences.