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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

So like, why are you guys going for glory and trying to reinstate the old and broken system

That's aiming for the Moon not Glory.

We already know it can burn away the worms at the very least

No we don't know that. Luna can burn away worms.

Harmony on the other hoof does not have a proven track record unlike the Hours.

We know literally almost nothing about Harmony except it's calling for the Worms.

It also won't require us to unstone Discord if we do find him, I have doubts we will be able to do much about him once that happens

I have literally no idea where your pulling this from?

The idea is to murder Discord while he's still a statue.

and it could also help with minor issues like our children

Dealing with Velvet's children is simple.

Kill her and her daughter.

For some strange reason Velvet doesn't want that to happen.


Besides even without all Harmony's sus history we got QM hints through Grave Digger that Glory is the best option.
 
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I'm also still half expecting Glory to not be the end.

Narratively speaking, what's stopping Velvet from investigating Harmony AFTER, either via quest continuing or in the epilogue?

Also reinstating the old system would be Moon, not Glory.

Traditionally ascending towards Glory through the Tricuspid Door is merely how one becomes Long, shedding the limitations of a mortal body through mastery of your chosen Lore and the patronage of an Hour. From there it's another entire journey on the quest to become a Name, which is very much an involved process and far more complicated than what we've accomplished so far.

We are not even a tenth of the way to becoming an Hour, not even remotely.
 
No we don't know that. Luna can burn away worms.

Harmony on the other hoof does not have a proven track record unlike the Hours.

We know literally almost nothing about Harmony except it's calling for the Worms.
1. If Luna, an Alicorn empowered by Harmony, can kill Worms with her presence unintentionally why would Harmony itself not be capable of doing the same thing? That doesn't make sense.

2. The millenia the World survived without Hours and only Harmony doesn't count? Because we know something has put some sort of wards on the World and Harmony is the only thing powerful enough that is active that can do that.

3. It is not calling them, it is not on purpose. The Worms are attracted by the Light, like the Moth was to Glory.
 
1. If Luna, an Alicorn empowered by Harmony, can kill Worms with her presence unintentionally why would Harmony itself not be capable of doing the same thing? That doesn't make sense.

Harmony is literally hiding and broke the key to reach it in two. It can't really do anything expect call for the Worms and empower ignorant pawns.

2. The millenia the World survived without Hours and only Harmony doesn't count? Because we know something has put some sort of wards on the World and Harmony is the only thing powerful enough that is active that can do that.

Harmony wasn't around straight after the Hours died so it can't have been the one to put up the wards that keep the world from being wormfood. The timeline just doesn't add up.

The Hours must have left some Wards behind powered by the lores.


3. It is not calling them, it is not on purpose. The Worms are attracted by the Light, like the Moth was to Glory.

Harmony is growing the light. The Lights calls the worms. So Harmony is calling the Worms.

Why? Well we don't know, nopony knows.
 
Harmony is literally hiding and broke the key to reach it in two. It can't really do anything expect call for the Worms and empower ignorant pawns.
How can Harmony be hidden if the Lights can be seen by the Worms? It is not hidden at all, just in a very hard to reach place.

The logic behind an Alicorn being able to kill Worms and Harmony itself being powerless is the same thing as saying an Hour can't do something a Long did in a much better way.

Harmony wasn't around straight after the Hours died so it can't have been the one to put up the wards that keep the world from being wormfood. The timeline just doesn't add up.

The Hours must have left some Wards behind powered by the lores.
The wards didn't fall immediately after the Hours died/went innactive.

Baldomare herself said the ones from the Hours are gone.
I won't say that they were simpler, quite on the contrary, but at least it was a system that I was used to. But now? Well, the fact that the Wake still exists shows us that something must have put a ward in place, or taken some action about it. But I admit I know as little about it as you do, right now.
So a system that she isn't used to is protecting the Wake, the only new system that exists is Harmony so Harmony did something to keep the Worms out of the Wake(maybe keep them in the Dreamlands with Luna killing them by walking close to them?).

Harmony is growing the light. The Lights calls the worms. So Harmony is calling the Worms.
Again, my point is that calling implies it is on purpose, that the Worms are being made to find the World while attracted implies they see the lights and come check out the feast.
It is not that the Lights don't make Worms come to the World, they do, but they definitely are not calling them.
 
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No we don't know that. Luna can burn away worms.

Harmony on the other hoof does not have a proven track record unlike the Hours.

We know literally almost nothing about Harmony except it's calling for the Worms.
Elements of Harmony PURIFIED Luna of the Worms.

So yes, Harmony CAN deal with Worms.

the question is the requirements (Alicorns and/or the Elements) and the limits (how strong do Worms get, and how many can Harmony deal with? If Harmony can destroy a 1000 Worms but there's a MILLION coming in, that's obviously not enough...)

I have literally no idea where your pulling this from?

The idea is to murder Discord while he's still a statue.
Well, the hope at least. But hopefully we can come up with a ritual or something to either kill him while stoned, or to somehow block his powers for the ritual murder if he has to be unpetrified.

Nah, the system is the same the rulers(Hours) are not, it's kinda like a new king in the monarchy.

Moon is a previous version of the Mansus, Glory is the Mansus rebuilt, but it will still follow the same basic rules.
Considering Glory is (supposedly) Velvet as the only active Hour (except for Wolf), she could then change the system. She could change the doors in the Mansus and their requirements, she could sponsor people with the right ideals and values to join her "pantheon" so to speak...

At that point It's easy to argue it's NOT the same old system.

Traditionally ascending towards Glory through the Tricuspid Door is merely how one becomes Long, shedding the limitations of a mortal body through mastery of your chosen Lore and the patronage of an Hour. From there it's another entire journey on the quest to become a Name, which is very much an involved process and far more complicated than what we've accomplished so far.

We are not even a tenth of the way to becoming an Hour, not even remotely.
And yet SOMETIMES it's possible to ascend directly to Hours (The Colonel was not a Name, and I think he might have not even been a Long when he slayed the Seven Coils, though I'm not sure), and being the first pony to go beyond the Tricuspid, Through the strongest Lock in history, after more than a thousand years... it's likely to have metaphysical weight.

But yeah, I also kind of expect us to mostly become a Long. Truth is, though, we just don't know. Just like we don't know what's beyond the Door. For all we know Forge and Sun are still alive in there.
 
How can Harmony be hidden if the Lights can be seen by the Worms? It is not hidden at all, just in a very hard to reach place.

How can Glory be locked away if it's Light can be so easily seen?

Just because Harmony has hidden itself does not mean it has hidden the light it grows.

Baldomare herself said the ones from the Hours are gone.

No she didn't.

You literally quoted Baldomare saying how she "know as little about it as you do, right now.".

She doesn't know anything about any Wards expect that something has to exist.

So a system that she isn't used to is protecting the Wake, the only new system that exists is Harmony so Harmony did something to keep the Worms out of the Wake(maybe keep them in the Dreamlands with Luna killing them by walking close to them?).

Your stretching here. Baldomare knows almost nothing.

We know from the Will of the Woods memories that they're were some Heart wards but she didn't know of there current state.

We have not had a single clue that Harmony ever put anykind of Ward up to protect the world.
 
Traditionally ascending towards Glory through the Tricuspid Door is merely how one becomes Long, shedding the limitations of a mortal body through mastery of your chosen Lore and the patronage of an Hour. From there it's another entire journey on the quest to become a Name, which is very much an involved process and far more complicated than what we've accomplished so far.

We are not even a tenth of the way to becoming an Hour, not even remotely.
As always the only reason you don't immediately jump to Hour level after passing thou the gate is because the existing Hours kick you out before you can gain enough enlightenment from bathing in the Glory to become one. The only reason the existing Names have not just gone and becomes hours is because they cannot bask in the Glory light to become one, they have both the power and knowledge required, they have only lacked the means.
 
She could change the doors in the Mansus and their requirements, she could sponsor people with the right ideals and values to join her "pantheon" so to speak...

Stick the Spider Door where the Tribal Door was and place a door where you have to not have the trait murderer to pass where the Mirror Door was.

Elements of Harmony PURIFIED Luna of the Worms.

So yes, Harmony CAN deal with Worms.

Maybe?

We don't know how the Elements of Harmony work but it could be that Harmony doesn't power them at all.

The light/fires of Harmony is grown by ponies within its grasp. So it could be that the Elements draw their strength from ponykind instead of Harmony as a powersource.

The artifacts that form the Elements of Harmony could be batteries for instance. Blood is the currency of the world, every world, and in the world of the Wake ponykind is mutilated with Harmony's light. Maybe when ponies die the light of Harmony within them takes their life (and maybe their soul, souls aren't going to their normal afterlife afterall) as a sacrifice to fuel the Elements of Harmony.

So like, it's not surprising that mass pony sacrifices provides a way to deal with a single Worm. For all we know each Element Harmony blast is fueled by ten thousand pony sacrifices.

But that doesn't really say much about Harmony's power. It says something about the power that lies in the Souls and blood of ponies.

Or who knows maybe the Elements of Harmony are just of one way Portal for Harmony to send super Beams out of from their hiding spot.

We really don't know enought to tell.
 
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Jade discovered the Memory of Light on Turn 14, so that's 6 turns we've had to explore it (including this one).

We've used those turns on:
  1. RotT on Twilight Expedition
  2. Studying the Memory of Light (unlocked the research)
  3. Selene Knock research
  4. Giving her a break
  5. RotT on a book for Baldomare
  6. RotT on Copper.
So empirically, we've not pursued the Memory of Light because we've prioritized the assurances of scrying!

But I think the bigger thing is — the Glory is RIGHT there.

We're on the first steps of a Harmony victory. We're looking at the ending steps of a Glory victory.
 
Jade discovered the Memory of Light on Turn 14, so that's 6 turns we've had to explore it (including this one).

We've used those turns on:
  1. RotT on Twilight Expedition
  2. Studying the Memory of Light (unlocked the research)
  3. Selene Knock research
  4. Giving her a break
  5. RotT on a book for Baldomare
  6. RotT on Copper.
So empirically, we've not pursued the Memory of Light because we've prioritized the assurances of scrying!

But I think the bigger thing is — the Glory is RIGHT there.

We're on the first steps of a Harmony victory. We're looking at the ending steps of a Glory victory.
Of the 6 points I'd argue we HAD to do 1, 3, 5 and PROBABLY 6.

2 was of course a prereq. So really, I think we didn't have THAT much of a choice with Jade, except the turn we let her take a break (I think I was against it).
 
The funny thing is that we wouldn't have needed to scry Copper if Memory of Light had been chosen at turn 17 instead of trying to kill her.

That also would have not reignited the occult war and she wouldn't have become an Enemy, so not going for Harmony already caused us a lot of trouble including losing 1 entire turn of occult activities because we are too busy Dancing with Death.
 
The funny thing is that we wouldn't have needed to scry Copper if Memory of Light had been chosen at turn 17 instead of trying to kill her.

That also would have not reignited the occult war and she wouldn't have become an Enemy, so not going for Harmony already caused us a lot of trouble including losing 1 entire turn of occult activities because we are too busy Dancing with Death.
Yes. It's called Hindsight. Looking at actions that could have, but were not taken with information and awareness that was not available at that time.

Presuming of course that simply ignoring Copper wouldn't cause things to worsen, and she wouldn't seek to snuff Velvet out on her own, then maybe.
But that was then.
 
The funny thing is that we wouldn't have needed to scry Copper if Memory of Light had been chosen at turn 17 instead of trying to kill her.

That also would have not reignited the occult war and she wouldn't have become an Enemy, so not going for Harmony already caused us a lot of trouble including losing 1 entire turn of occult activities because we are too busy Dancing with Death.
Are you sure about that? Velvet striking back guaranteed that this turned into a war, but Copper has agency too. She despises Velvet, and fell for the Master's trick just as much as Velvet did.
From her perspective, her hated enemy just tried to kill her. Why would she stop trying to rid herself of her foe, just because that foe sends one madness ritual less her way?
 
Traditionally ascending towards Glory through the Tricuspid Door is merely how one becomes Long, shedding the limitations of a mortal body through mastery of your chosen Lore and the patronage of an Hour. From there it's another entire journey on the quest to become a Name, which is very much an involved process and far more complicated than what we've accomplished so far.

We are not even a tenth of the way to becoming an Hour, not even remotely.
Not entirely true.
There were Names who became Names much easier than what we done as of now. There were Hours who became Hours much easier.
Thunderskin and Twins, specifically, aren't known for doing anything grand to get their Ascension to Hours. It is not certain Twins were even Long.
I would even suspect it is impossible to become a Long, or a Name, in current circumstances. Long maybe, but Names work with their patron Hours pretty closely to ascend higher, and the only known Hour alive for now is the Wolf.
So it is entirely likely the first who reaches Glory will be able to become an Hour immediately or almost immediately. And then set the rules for everyone else.
 
so not going for Harmony already caused us a lot of trouble including losing 1 entire turn of occult activities because we are too busy Dancing with Death.

We don't know that, Copper could have still tried to kill us even harder.

In truth it was our hubris of not going for the Wolf sacrament that caused us to lose a turn due to Dancing with Death and that was us getting off lightly.
 
So it is entirely likely the first who reaches Glory will be able to become an Hour immediately or almost immediately. And then set the rules for everyone else.
Were the Hours actually capable of setting the rules of Ascension? All we see them do in regards to that is sponsor mortals to become Long or force Long in their service to avoid them going higher.

And if they could do that wouldn't the gods from Stone have stopped mortals from ascending or the gods from blood being born and killing 2 of them or even the gods from light not existing in the first place.

The main reason why I've been against Glory is because that system allows that kind of stuff to happen no matter how powerful the Hours that exist are and considering they made the laws of reality that seems to be something above them.

There must always be a way to climb, a way to reach Glory no matter how hard it is and that seems to apply to the existence of new Hours too, no matter what they are born/appear/ascend.
 
Were the Hours actually capable of setting the rules of Ascension? All we see them do in regards to that is sponsor mortals to become Long or force Long in their service to avoid them going higher.

And if they could do that wouldn't the gods from Stone have stopped mortals from ascending or the gods from blood being born and killing 2 of them or even the gods from light not existing in the first place.
It is a bit vague.
As I see it, Hours set the rules to how Ascension is forbidden, but it is possible to find loopholes. It is known Long Ascension requires a sponsorship from an Hour, and actually is considered impossible without one. Name Ascension is directly tied to an Hour, and requires enacting its core nature, so it should be completely impossible to become a Name without an Hour. However, it might be possible to reach the same level of power as a Name.
Now, to the question about Gods from Stone. I think they actually did try to stop mortals from ascending. And it did not work. Let's look why:
First, Gods from Light and Nowhere. They were born as Hours, no rules governing Mansus would've kept them from existing because both Nowhere and Glory are out of reach for Hours, as far as I understand.
Next, Gods from Blood. They are mostly born from extraordinary sacrifice. Again, as Hours immediately. If Gods from Stone knew when, where, and how this would happen, they would've prevented it. But they did not know.
Next, Gods from Flesh. The two who we know ascended during the Stone era literally killed their way to godhood. We again don't really know if they were Long before. But they cheated the system, not went through it. I suspect they were able to do it only because other gods from Stone were already dead.
 
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Man it took a while to finish catching up
So like, why are you guys going for glory and trying to reinstate the old and broken system in hopes that it will protect against the worms instead of just helping Harmony convert the Mansus to itself and maybe teach it to shine less glaringly? We already know it can burn away the worms at the very least and it could also help with minor issues like our children

It really comes down to repeated word of QM that we should pursue Glory. We've had Name tell us this IC, the QM tell us this ooc, and it's been thrown at us numerous times. And we've had to been dragged to it metaphorically kicking and screaming, I mean the QM had to give us mandatory free actions to get us to poke the Mansus more.

And then we ruined Twilight's life.

That right there is part of the problem. To put it bluntly, Velvet has hurt Harmony a lot. Like, a ton. She's made the world a whole lot worse with numerous shattered and ended lives in her wake. She definitely should have friended more of the Inner Circle early on, and perhaps not snorted Fleeting Actions every time they appeared like an addict, and risked not accomplishing the Master's objectives as rapidly and thoroughly as possible, built a bit more wide than tall. But she didn't, and so our course feels very set.

I personally hope that we can get Jade to crack the Memory of Light; she's honestly closer to being the Lore-and-Harmony-Pony than Velvet is at this point, what with discovering the Rite of the Mother and the Father and such. And the Memory.

Now, some of this is purely down to rotten luck. Meeting the Wolf, for example, was the result of a die roll, and has been one of our principal means of marring the world. Everything involving that damn Church is second, with it kicking down the success of a very important Comet Social thanks to Mareinette drinking our Influence right beforehand. Driving Luna out of her mind on explosive fashion was another set of rolls that went very poorly for the world, even if Velvet ultimately profited from it.

And that's the last thing; Velvet and the thread seems to shatter things, pick the favorite pieces from the former whole, and glue those pieces together with Velvet. Granted, if we had our way we'd grab complete sets of things if we could, but between the dice and the world such things never seem to happen.

We are very close to acquiring a full set of Alicorns though! Just got to tamp down the omnicidal impulses of the Sun and we're good!
 
Yknow, I don't bring up a lot of stuff. For several reasons.

One of those reasons is because, to put it simply, bringing certain things up would just be rubbing salt into the wound. Because seriously, nothing good would come of me talking about Twilight or Starry. Nothing would be gained of me exploring what happened, is happening, or will happen to them. So, I just don't.

This might surprise some of you, but I actually don't go out of my way to make you guys feel bad. I have no desire to do so.

Another reason is because I write the story, and me saying something would be given too much attention or focus. Because no matter how many times I say "this isn't necessarily canon", there is always the idea that "word of god" applies whenever I say something.

But still, let me just say that-
And that's the last thing; Velvet and the thread seems to shatter things, pick the favorite pieces from the former whole, and glue those pieces together with Velvet.
-this description actually hits VERY hard.

I tried brushing into this topic, when I wrote what Velvet was thinking right after she got hurt. I tried to shed some light into some of the thoughts that she has inside of her head, especially the ones she buries and ignores. But ultimately, there is no need to make an unnecessary detour down a guilt trip if it won't be good for the story.

Anyways, that's all I wanted to say.



Writing is being written, and hopefully will finish writing today.

I hope you are all doing well.
 
In truth it was our hubris of not going for the Wolf sacrament that caused us to lose a turn due to Dancing with Death and that was us getting off lightly.

The wolf Sacrament has nothing to do with it. Our hubris was doing a potentially dangerous Manse expedition on a turn we thought we might be attacked.

And that's the last thing; Velvet and the thread seems to shatter things, pick the favorite pieces from the former whole, and glue those pieces together with Velvet. Granted, if we had our way we'd grab complete sets of things if we could, but between the dice and the world such things never seem to happen.

There's definitely truth to this though to an extent the world was already a bit broken and as we've seen others have agency and can affect events just as much as her. It doesn't absolve our mistakes, but considering the nature of the fusion it's hard to be to judgmental in hindsight.
 
The wolf Sacrament has nothing to do with it.

Velvet lost by 5 to get wounded. Edge 5 even ignoring whatever sacrament benefits we'd get from the wolf would increase Velvet's personal combat by 5.

So no, the Wolf Sacrament would have meant Velvet wouldn't have gotten wounded.

Our hubris was doing a potentially dangerous Manse expedition on a turn we thought we might be attacked.

That too.

The free Manus expedition should have been going to the wolf for the sacraments. But then again that's easy to say in hindsight.

More truthfully in my view we should have healed our scar ages ago. Glory knows I suggested a bunch of plans about it.
 
Velvet lost by 5 to get wounded. Edge 5 even ignoring whatever sacrament benefits we'd get from the wolf would increase Velvet's personal combat by 5.

So no, the Wolf Sacrament would have meant Velvet wouldn't have gotten wounded.

If we don't have the wound from the Church we are at 1/2 and not dancing with death.

That too.

The free Manus expedition should have been going to the wolf for the sacraments. But then again that's easy to say in hindsight.

More truthfully in my view we should have healed our scar ages ago. Glory knows I suggested a bunch of plans about it.

The Manse option realistically should have gone to just about anywhere, but the Church. I agree about the scar, but it is what it is at this point, we underestimated the Church and got a bit unlucky. Realistically we should have focused on any Sacrament, but that's easy to say in hindsight. Honestly wouldn't have minded the Wolf Sacrament early in the quest before we got the other stains, but at this point I'd rather focus on the others.
 
-this description actually hits VERY hard.

I tried brushing into this topic, when I wrote what Velvet was thinking right after she got hurt. I tried to shed some light into some of the thoughts that she has inside of her head, especially the ones she buries and ignores. But ultimately, there is no need to make an unnecessary detour down a guilt trip if it won't be good for the story.

Anyways, that's all I wanted to say.

I sincerely hope that it's not hit you personally, OurBirdofWires.
 
In which Cadance almost loses something
For Harmony and Love! – A Princess Cadance Quest



You are Princess Mi Amore Cadenza.

The Moonlight shines down through the window reflecting off the crystals to bathe the dark room in a silver glow.

And tonight you are in your room alone.

"Auntie Luna, you told me not to cry"

For Shinning is busy and your dear friend Velvet…

"But it's so hard;"

Your gaze returns to the letter…

"Ev'ry day that passes by"

The letter letting you know that her condition has worsened.

"Tears more at my heart"

Your tears flow down your face glittering with sliver light as they fall

"Velvet Covers, I know you meant your best"

You think of the warmth she gave to you

"When you stood your ground;"

The warmth of love that radiated from her like a burning fire. The warmth of her sweet embrace.

"Without your heartfelt sacrifice"

Yet you can't help but remember how cold she was.

"Your family might no longer stand"

Ashes of a once mighty fire

You turn your face from the letter and trot over to the painting.

The painting you have of her beautiful face.

And as you see the image of her so like your memories something within you lurches.

"But it still hurts, waking up without you here"

She is so worried that it hurts.

"Even spells can't quell the fear;"

That the one she loves might be taken from her like so many others have.

"That I might not get to see your face"

That the image on the painting or her memories might be the only way to see her loves face.

"Or fall asleep held in your embrace, ever again"

That she might not feel the warm hooves of her beloved holding her close. Two heartbeats beating united side by side.

"Or hear you listen to me"

To have her by your side, somepony you love that will listen and give advice without judging you for your weaknesses.

"About my hopes, my fears, my dreams;"

A friend that gives you strength when you find yourself with none of your own.

"But although it's been so long my hope still runs strong"

A love more steady then the ground beneath your hooves.

"So I'll keep going on…"

Because how can you ever truly fall if she is there to catch you.



For an instant your mind turns to the duties you have.

The crushing weight of your responsibilities as a Princess.

"My Wings will carry the weight"

That which keeps you from your love.

"No matter how much they ache;"

But no matter how your heart aches you place your trust in Luna.

"And I will never stop waiting for word"

In the flickering candle of hope that burns within you.

"For signs of your return"

Because you can't let it go. Can't let her go.

Because if there's any hope even just a glimmer you'll be holding on.

Because you believe in the two of you together.

You believe in her promise

"And if, the darkness would come"

For if your fears of something taking her away were to be.

"And claim the hope that spurs me on;"

For if she was to leave you.

"How am I to spend all of my days, without you."

What would you do?

"The one who made my life…

Without your love?

"A life worth fighting for."

Without Velvet Covers?




The tears continue to fall down your cheeks.
 
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I sincerely hope that it's not hit you personally, OurBirdofWires.
Oh, no. I definitely meant in the "I agree" or "this sounds accurate" way. Saying that "X hits hard" is one of those terms that are used for a lot of things, indeed, but I hope I didn't misuse it in this case.

The painting you have of her beautiful face.

And as you see the image of her so like your memories something within you lurches.

"But it still hurts, waking up without you here"
Bro :V

Grail and Winter indeed.
 
Although what did I do to get the In Which instead of What of? Any advice?
Oh, sure.

I won't attest to what is truly going on inside Cadance's head. But (and I apologize if these are the wrong words, portuguese speaker here and all) Cadance is in a monogamous relationship with Shining. And she doesn't appear to be romantically interested in you at all.

The mentions of Cadance thinking about you in a peculiar color are relevant, for sure. But the descriptions you use seem to cross several lines that just haven't been crossed in this story (yet?).

Specifically, I can't possibly "canonize" a story where-
"But it still hurts, waking up without you here"
-something like this is said :V

Because jokes aside, your prose (at least to me) seems to imply that Velvet and Cadance are lovers. It might not be your intention, and it definitely could just be a problem with how I am reading it. But still, that is the impression I get.

But still, thank you for sharing this with us! Alicorn tears are quite the powerful reagent in some circles.
 

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