Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Greymere · Monday at 11:44 PM

Venerable Ro said:
First of all, in the context of this specific vote, I really don't care about Changelings, since our Bureau has demonstrated the ability to figure them out without relying on the Lores. I only brought them up in relation to the "plant the idea that Velvet was the target of an abduction scheme" idea.

Secondly I'm trying to plant introductory materials for their own sake, not as a step one in a scheme to draw a specific conclusion. Aside, of course, from the basic scheme to introduce the Lores at all.

I think you have the order of operations backward for the changeling plans. The end goal isn't for the detectives to come to some conclusion about the changelings, its to use the changelings and their importance to the Bureau's mission to encourage them to take the weird out-of-context magic more seriously as a potential Actually Real Thing.

Greymere · Monday at 11:56 PM

So anyway. I realized that the safe, is in fact, in the same building that our detectives are currently investigating. For some reason I thought it was in a different building? So yeah, misleading the Bureau on no-that's-totally-faked manuscripts seems a bit more important than I originally thought actually!

[X] A Foundation To Build On
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (You will leave a basic compendium of the essential Lores, a sort of primer seemingly intended to instruct new inductees to the cult and help them identify their personal affinities)
-[X] Another pamphlet, detailing basic Lore-related hazards such as Fascination, again seemingly directed towards a prospective cultist making the jump from level 0 to level 1 in a prospective Lore.
-[X] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).

Still a bit meh re: the Fascination and Other Damgers primer, but I'm not going to make the Million Plan Problem even worse (this time).

Edit 1 & 2: Changed my mind twice about whether or not to include a variant, dw about it

Sveta08 · Tuesday at 12:57 AM

Venerable Ro said:
The evidence of preparing to replace Velvet connects to the possibility of the manuscripts, and also to the seemingly random attack on Velvet's home. Since it seems we're definitely not going to try to link the changelings directly to Copper's cult, a good old fashioned abduction scheme would fit well enough.

As to the windigo thing, I'd be happy enough to throw in a safety manual for windigo jars; "something something volatile uncontrollable construct, something something to be kept under carefully prescribed conditions, something something ancient terror weapon"?

My main concern there is, it's a fabrication. Yes, yes, everything we are offering is fabrication, BUT.

Replacing Velvet is something that invites more questions. That invites tracking down where the Fake is, how they gathered that info. And if the detectives ask any of the actual cultists about it, yes, everyone will give the "I don't know noth'n bout it!" kinda response. Which, fair, maybe there was compartmentalization of the information. But the odds no one knew anything about it, when the detectives themselves could find out about it? I just don't know if that's the best way to go about it.

Earth-Destroyer · Tuesday at 1:03 AM

Thinking the vote was badly explained, let us try a better format. This vote is about intent not hard facts, better I think decide a course and let the GM decide the specifics.

[X] Give evidence focused on the bureau to start utilizing/developing lore knowledge, targeting development of the bureau being able to assist us in rituals.

Shaper47 · Tuesday at 1:10 AM

Pittauro said:
if we get that lucky sure, but I doubt it. We'd be lucky to get one level 3 heart book out of 2 searches

Let me check, alright I didn't get all of them but...

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Book search: Manehattan – Servant action]

[Roll: 47 + 12 (Learning) = 59]

KNOCK lvl 3, "An encyclopedia about poisonous snakes, with several artful illustrations", 30 bits.

FORGE lvl 1, "A small handbook on camping, explaining the basics of how to build a tent and start a small fire", 7 bits.

MOTH lvl 1, "A poetry book. Amateur work, really, but one of them talks about masks…," 7 bits.

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Book search: Manehattan – Servant action]

[Roll: 51 + 12 (Learning) = 63]

-Lvl 3 EDGE, "a posthumous, and rather contentious, biography of the legendary pegasus called Flash Magnus," costs 30 bits

-Lvl 2 KNOCK, "a fairly recent, and short, book about dream interpretation. You know it is recent because it was dedicated to Princess Luna's return," costing 15 bits

-Lvl 2 WINTER, "a book on the benefits of Meditation, and why you should try it," costs 15 bits

OurLadyOfWires said:
[Ponyville Book Hunt – Servant Action]

[Roll: 24 + 12 (Learning) + 6 (Cult influence: Small) = 42]

OurLadyOfWires said:
-BOOK, FORGE Level 3, "A real guide to beginner's level blacksmithing. The bookstore owner almost seemed excited in having this reach your hoofs via your servants." Costing 30 bits.

-BOOK, KNOCK Level 1, "Surprisingly, an image booklet featuring several pieces of abstract art. Surprisingly, there may be something of interest in here." Costing 7 bits.

-BOOK, EXPEDITION MAP (reveals 1 location), "A small hitchhiker's guide to several destinations. At least one of them, you hope, has to be interesting." Costing 7 bits

OurLadyOfWires said:
-And your servants, at your behest, presented you with a shortlist of titles they thought might interest you to purchase. You had nearly forgotten about that. [Servants rolled, with bonus, a total greater than 100. Servant book hunt capped at 100.]
--Book, Heart Level 4, "A scientific paper that must be decades old, or perhaps centuries, which makes an attempt at collating what is known about a particular tribe of the distant and enigmatic zebras. It goes into great detail about a certain custom the tribe had of… wearing the skin of large animals that they hunted, in order to harness their strength." Costing 60 bits.
--Book, Forge Level 3, "The book is simply titled 'Chemistry', and your servants reluctantly admitted that was the only word they understood in it. Of course you know they were being dramatic, but that also means that the contents of the book must be way, way beyond what they teach at schools." Costing 30 bits.
--Book, Secret Histories Level 2, "A hefty book detailing the charter rights of some of the smaller villages that dot Equestria. Not old enough to be terribly outdated, but not recent enough to have any legal or academic value either." Costing 15 bits.
-Books will be available for purchase at the beginning of the next voting turn.

Our servants rolling a 30 or higher gets us a level 3 book on the primary lore of the place.

Jade presumably wouldn't have the same max caps as the servants.

So them doing the book search does give pretty good odds of at least two level 3 heart books.

Greymere said:
(WRITE-IN) The connection between the Lore of Moth and the changelings' innate abilities and their former ability to Lie to the World

Man you really want to dunk on Celestia.

As interesting as Velvet going out of her way to be as humiliating mocking as possible to her is.

It might be a bit unwise.

Pittauro said:
And warnings about Fascination and Dread make sense.

Does Velvet IC even know about Dread?

Sounds like something that speeds up Celestia and Eclipse's progress which is bad.

Earth-Destroyer said:
Again these are the best detective in the nation they will have already discovered that Velvet suffers an old terrible injury that permanently effected her, just from being around her for a week.

You underestimate Moth 4.

OurLadyOfWires · Tuesday at 1:10 AM

Alright, I'm back.

I have an honest question.

This is the first time we try an "open/you decide what you want" vote in this site (which, importantly, doesn't have an easily-accessible tally button).

Let me be very clear when I say things are not as bad as I feared they would be, and that this is being a valuable learning experience / growing pain on this new site.

However, since we are still early in the vote (it has been open for... a bit more than 24h?) are any of you interested in me re-writing the voting options to make things more streamlined, and then restarting the vote from scratch?

Just so people don't think we are just flipping the table, I am asking for your opinion, I am not opening a vote that decides if we restart the vote or not. I want to check the thread mood so I can make a decision that is more comfortable for us.

So, any interest?

(I will edit this post, adding a spoiler, where I will answer the ongoing pings)
EDIT:

Venerable Ro said:
@OurLadyOfWires, you never did clarify on whether it would be possible to leave behind a simple level one trinket from Mareinette's haul, if such a suitable artifact were available.

No. For two reasons.

First, because whatever you plant was prepared beforehand. And second, because Selene wouldn't be able to make that kind of on-the-fly decision of what to leave behind. In fact, narratively, she didn't see Mareinette or the loot-cart until after the returned home.

Pittauro said:
@OurLadyOfWires What is left of/in the Hive, assuming Comet can tell us/remembers? Do we believe there's any worth in letting the Bureau access their former hive?

You don't know where the Hive is, Comet Feet doesn't remember, and Baldomare won't speak about it. So it's a moot point.

Talon Tiger Dino said:
@OurLadyOfWires , did Velvet notice any difference between Changeling disguises before and Changeling disguises after the Catastrophe?

Ironically, no, but because you are too competent.

You were never fooled by a changeling, except for Chrysalis/false-Luna. So, you can't really tell if their disguises changed, because you were always able to see through them.

Greymere said:
Anyway, as I was making this list, I had a thought. @OurLadyOfWires could Velvet like, write down the visions she had when analyzing the Doors to try and frame the Lores as, essentially, the long-lost ancestral magic of ponykind rather than just general mystery spooky magic?

No. That would just boil down to "weird writing about spooky magic" with a particular flavor of narrative.

Pittauro said:
is adding... well, I'm not even counting them all, but definitely more than TEN different items, maybe even more than that depending on how you count the manuscripts.

we don't count the lores, we count THE BOOKS. each book is an item.

HERE'S OUR LIST

Pittauro said:
THAT'S 16 BOOKS.

and as a note, plans to add forge 2 should keep in mind that "Forge 2" is actually THREE items, not 1.

@OurLadyOfWires can you confirm this? Is "Forge 2" treated as one item worth of complexity, or three? Better be sure about this.

Talon Tiger Dino said:
@OurLadyOfWires , does planting higher Lore Levels mean planting multiple manuscripts to build to that level, or just one higher-level manuscript?

Good question, and I'm sorry for this confusion.

I will count one evidence per Lore. So even if you have several manuscripts of Forge, it would just count as "Forge was planted once".

Pittauro said:
hey @OurLadyOfWires if we're sending Names on the Canterlot part 3 expedition (requires 2 actions from them, so basically all of them), can they STILL also take part in short expeditions in addition to that?

As long as we don't abuse it to the point that it breaks narrative, sure. Participating in short expeditions is a free action, so they can go as well.

Earth-Destroyer said:
These are the ponies that not only make their living by investigating thing, and noticing the minor clues that revel the truth, but are the ponies that stand above the rest in skill and ablity. They will have noticed Velvet's limb basically upon first meeting her, because that something obvious they are trained to notice. They will have noticed it does not go away, or stops being their.

And frankly if the detectives where the type not to double check such a simple and clear detail like their department head having a limp, something that a changeling infiltrator might miss because they don't know Velvet has a limp they would not be working at the Bureau.

If the detectives have not already done an investigation into important life details, of their boss when they know they are going up agisnt shapeshifters, and done something as minor as pulled the medical records on how Velvet got her injury, then Velvet should fire them and hire actually competent people.

This point is valid. But for the sake of a "ruling", the Bureau doesn't know about Velvet's scar.

Mechanically, information management about your bad leg has been a relevant factor during the quest. And narratively, you joined the Bureau after reaching Winter 3 (which makes you resistant to physical discomfort) and Heart 3 (which makes you healthier in general), on top of Moth 4 (Moth). So, nowadays you walk without any signs of a limp.

You look frail, sure, but no limp.

Good evening to us all. I hope you are all doing well.

spiderhellian · Tuesday at 1:14 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
any of you interested in me re-writing the voting options to make things more streamlined, and then restarting the vote from scratch?

Can you sketch how this would be different/it would be streamlined?

I'm happy with something simpler, but also I don't really mind the voting process being a little unwieldy, it seems to accurately reflect the competing desires people have

Unless you think that might be emergent from the non-streamlined voting setup?

LieutenantSpirit · Tuesday at 1:15 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
However, since we are still early in the vote (it has been open for... a bit more than 24h?) are any of you interested in me re-writing the voting options to make things more streamlined, and then restarting the vote from scratch?

Personally, I think the variety of plans has become a little chaotic. It might be worth restarting the vote just to let people consolidate their ideas.

Sveta08 · Tuesday at 1:16 AM

I am... comfortable with what we have, but would enjoy a more streamlined option.

While most votes have a write in option, there are usually enough factors that everyone more or less agrees on the plan that fits their highest priority, with minor quibbling on over write ins.
This, having... pretty well only write ins, doesn't have that stabilization.

In short, I am good with this, but for the less actively involved spending... a lot of time on the thread, probably best to restart.

Shaper47 · Tuesday at 1:16 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
So, any interest?

Not really?

Though maybe a limiting option might be good, to pick how much evidence we leave.

OurLadyOfWires · Tuesday at 1:23 AM

spiderhellian said:
Can you sketch how this would be different?

What I have in mind is something more streamlined, like the old master reports of old.

Something like

-Leave Lores
[] YES
[] NO

-Sabotage investigation
[] YES
[] NO

-Tell about Windigos
[] YES
[] NO

The problem is that, uh, being able to discuss more "open" plans is a good skill for us all to have. Sometimes I really will have to ask you guys "so, what do you want?" and I'll need a final answer.
Furthermore, it could be that the complication of this vote happened because the moratorium was just too short. Maybe a 24h or 48h moratorium would have been better, because this is a write-in heavy decision.

But ultimately, again, this doesn't look so bad that I WANT to change how things are going. This is being a fine learning experience. And ultimately, people will vote for what they want, so even if the end result blows up on our collective faces it won't be because "the voting period was confusing". A confusing voting period just makes things less comfortable, it doesn't change people's minds.

Potdl · Tuesday at 1:28 AM

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning

Venerable Ro · Tuesday at 1:52 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
So, any interest?

Yes, very much so. I'd hope you've gotten a good impression of what people want to do as an aggregate, but this has turned into furious hair-splitting over minute differences in verbiage.

Pittauro · Tuesday at 1:58 AM

Shaper47 said:
Our servants rolling a 30 or higher gets us a level 3 book on the primary lore of the place.

Fair. Though I'm not sure we can afford 2 follower actions on searching for books
I'm willing to consider it though. Especially if we found bits in the loot

OurLadyOfWires said:
You don't know where the Hive is, Comet Feet doesn't remember, and Baldomare won't speak about it. So it's a moot point.

They truly delight in being unhelpful!

OurLadyOfWires said:
Good question, and I'm sorry for this confusion.

I will count one evidence per Lore. So even if you have several manuscripts of Forge, it would just count as "Forge was planted once".

Oh, good to know.

Still, full lore reveal would then be 9 pieces of evidence, which is stil far too much to risk now

OurLadyOfWires said:
As long as we don't abuse it to the point that it breaks narrative, sure. Participating in short expeditions is a free action, so they can go as well.

Nice

OurLadyOfWires said:
This point is valid. But for the sake of a "ruling", the Bureau doesn't know about Velvet's scar.

Mechanically, information management about your bad leg has been a relevant factor during the quest. And narratively, you joined the Bureau after reaching Winter 3 (which makes you resistant to physical discomfort) and Heart 3 (which makes you healthier in general), on top of Moth 4 (Moth). So, nowadays you walk without any signs of a limp.

You look frail, sure, but no limp.

That's what I expected.

Velvet is SUPERNATURALLY good at hiding things, PARTICULARLY her discomfort.

Also in the last two turns we had respectively an edge 4 influence, which if anything made her feel LESS fragile, and then obviously the "bedridden" turn now.

OurLadyOfWires said:
What I have in mind is something more streamlined, like the old master reports of old.

Something like

-Leave Lores
[] YES
[] NO

-Sabotage investigation
[] YES
[] NO

-Tell about Windigos
[] YES
[] NO

The problem is that, uh, being able to discuss more "open" plans is a good skill for us all to have. Sometimes I really will have to ask you guys "so, what do you want?" and I'll need a final answer.
Furthermore, it could be that the complication of this vote happened because the moratorium was just too short. Maybe a 24h or 48h moratorium would have been better, because this is a write-in heavy decision.

But ultimately, again, this doesn't look so bad that I WANT to change how things are going. This is being a fine learning experience. And ultimately, people will vote for what they want, so even if the end result blows up on our collective faces it won't be because "the voting period was confusing". A confusing voting period just makes things less comfortable, it doesn't change people's minds.

Oh, this is what you meant.

Nah. I think I might personally like something like a second stage voting between only the most popular votes though, maybe with a few lines of comment by you on what each plan tries to accomplish and perceived risks and rewards from Velvet's point of view. But even that's unnecessary

Earth-Destroyer · Tuesday at 2:06 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
So, any interest?

Perhaps you should boil down the biggest plans into a few general plans based upon what Velvet predicts will happen. I would like a simple informative post about this. I do recommend making a new threadmark and only counting post from that point on, just to consolidate things so we don't have 20 different plans.

spiderhellian · Tuesday at 2:12 AM

For reference, this is what the current tally looks like:

Vote Tally : Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience [Posts: 6443-6642]
##### NetTally 5.1.0

Task: 【NONE】
— Voters: 25

[X] Plan: Basic Int Test
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X][WRITE-IN] The details of the Forge's Redemption
No. of Votes: 9

[◈] Plan: Basic Int Test
[X] Anjaxis
[X] Arrkhon
[X] DelightedOne
[X] Kai Merah
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Maer
[X] Nevermort
[x] Pittauro
[X] Rafuki22

[X] Plan: Ritual Knowledge
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X][WRITE-IN] The details of the Forge's Redemption
No. of Votes: 7

[◈] Plan: Ritual Knowledge
[X] Anjaxis
[X] Arrkhon
[X] DelightedOne
[X] Kai Merah
[X] Maer
[X] Nevermort
[X] Rafuki22

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)
No. of Votes: 6

[X] Shaper47
[X] DelightedOne
[X] LieutenantSpirit
[X] Limabot
[X] Nevermort
[X] Rafuki22

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning
-[X] Plant warning about Windigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] Plant the details of the Forge's Redemption
No. of Votes: 6

[◈] Plan: Reforging and Warning
[X] Limabot
[X] Portec
[X] Potdl
[X] Sintonir
[X] spiderhellian
[X] Talon Tiger Dino

[X] Plan: Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] Reveal the Worms and the threat they pose to everyone.
-[X] Reveal the possession of Luna and the creation of Nightmare Moon.
No. of Votes: 5

[◈] Plan: Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)
[X] Arrkhon
[X] BritBiscuit
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Shaper47
[X] Sintonir

[X] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
-[X] Plant Lore Manuscript detailing the hiding of Changelings (Moth 1)
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a basic treaties on the lores (Lore level 0)
No. of Votes: 5

[◈] Plan: Secrets better left Forgotten
[X] Alan975
[X] Limabot
[X] Portec
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Sveta08

[X] A Foundation To Build On
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (You will leave a basic compendium of the essential Lores, a sort of primer seemingly intended to instruct new inductees to the cult and help them identify their personal affinities)
-[X] Another pamphlet, detailing basic Lore-related hazards such as Fascination, again seemingly directed towards a prospective cultist making the jump from level 0 to level 1 in a prospective Lore.
-[X] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).
No. of Votes: 4

[X] Maer
[X] Greymere
[x] Pittauro
[X] Venerable Ro

[X] Plan: A Gentle Nudge
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, MOTH 1)
No. of Votes: 4

[◈] Plan: A Gentle Nudge
[X] Alan975
[X] Arrkhon
[x] Pittauro
[X] spiderhellian

[X] Plan: Overview with a warning
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X][WRITE-IN] The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands
No. of Votes: 4

[◈] Plan: Overview with a warning
[X] Arrkhon
[X] Shaper47
[X] Sintonir
[X] spiderhellian

[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
No. of Votes: 3

[X] Shaper47
[X] des-pair-2
[X] LieutenantSpirit

[X] Plan: Other Velvet
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X][WRITE-IN] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).
No. of Votes: 3

[◈] Plan: Other Velvet
[X] Nevermort
[x] Pittauro
[X] Shaper47

[X] Plan: A Colder Nudge
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, WINTER 1)
-[X] A "letter" sent from Windy Flakes. (Attempt to tell your investigators about Windy Flakes as a pony of interest)
No. of Votes: 2

[◈] Plan: A Colder Nudge
[X] Rafuki22
[X] spiderhellian

[X] Plan: Dream Warning
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X][WRITE-IN] The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands
No. of Votes: 2

[◈] Plan: Dream Warning
[X] Rafuki22
[X] Shaper47

[X] Plan: Forge and Forgery
-[X][WRITE-IN] You planted a fake evidence pointing toward changelings involvement
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (FORGE: Level 2 )
No. of Votes: 2

[◈] Plan: Forge and Forgery
[X] Maer
[X] Nevermort

[X] Plan: Historical Precedent
-[X] A basic treatise on the Lores (Lore Level 0)
-[X][WRITE-IN] Reveal the Lores as the ancestral magic of ponykind
-[X][WRITE-IN] Reveal the one- and two-circle ritual configurations
No. of Votes: 2

[◈] Plan: Historical Precedent
[X] Lorrie
[x] Pittauro

[X] Plan: Loring up the Night lights.
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (You will leave pre-prepared copies of Lore manuscripts
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (Everything, the entire library and the kitchen sink)
-[X][WRITE IN] General warnnings about the dangers of The Lores and The Mansus (Worms in your Dreams, Wolves at your heels, etc...)
-[X][WRITE IN] A journal filled with vauge rambelings about the disaperance of Luna after "The attack" (Reveal Copper's attack against/ the possession of Luna).
No. of Votes: 2

[◈] Plan: Loring up the Night lights.
[X] Alan975
[X] gale

[X] A Foundation To Build On (with Historical backing!)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (You will leave a basic compendium of the essential Lores, a sort of primer seemingly intended to instruct new inductees to the cult and help them identify their personal affinities)
-[X] Another pamphlet, detailing basic Lore-related hazards such as Fascination, again seemingly directed towards a prospective cultist making the jump from level 0 to level 1 in a prospective Lore.
-[X] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).
-[X] The old (presumed) journal of Starswirl the Bearded along with partial translation notes detailing a hidden path through the crystal caves of Canterlot. Clearly of immense historical significance, and possibly the origin of this esoteric branch of magic. Perhaps the Bureau should take charge of this investigation...
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Venerable Ro

[X] Give evidence focused on the bureau to start utilizing/developing lore knowledge, targeting development of the bureau being able to assist us in rituals.
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Earth-Destroyer

[X] How to build basic defenses.
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (FORGE: Level 2 )
No. of Votes: 1

[x] Nevermort

[X] Plan A Lunar Nudge
No. of Votes: 1

[X] Arrkhon

[X] Plan: A Softer, Lunar Nudge
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] A detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (KNOCK 1, MOTH 1, EDGE 1, WINTER 1, SECRET HISTORIES 1)
No. of Votes: 1

[◈] Plan: A Softer, Lunar Nudge
[X] Arrkhon

[X] Plan: Connected Secrets
-[X] Plant a basic treatise on the lores (Lore level 0)
-[X][WRITE-IN] The connection between the Lore of Moth and the changelings' innate abilities and their former ability to Lie to the World
-[X][WRITE-IN] Information about Windigos (Details about Windigos, their jars, and their nature as summonable entities - but not how to summon them)
No. of Votes: 1

[◈] Plan: Connected Secrets
[X] Lorrie

[X] Plan: Insurance for the Future
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] Reveal the Worms and the threat they pose to everyone
No. of Votes: 1

[◈] Plan: Insurance for the Future
[X] spiderhellian

[X] Plan: Let's waste their time
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X][WRITE-IN] You planted an encrypted treatise about Lores that are decodable but meant to delay/complicate their study (Grail: Level 1, Heart: Level 1 Moth: Level 1, Grail lvl 1 )
No. of Votes: 1

[◈] Plan: Let's waste their time
[X] Nevermort

[X] Plan: Monoforging and Warning
-[X] Plant warning about Wendigos (Details about Wendigos and their jars, not summoning info)
-[X] Plant a detailed treatise about one of the Lores. One, or several of them. (Forge 2)
-[X] Plant the details of the Forge's Redemption
No. of Votes: 1

[◈] Plan: Monoforging and Warning
[X] Talon Tiger Dino

Total No. of Voters: 25

There are a lot of low-vote plans, maybe because it's an easy vote to make plans for with a lot of possibilities?

But it does seem like there's some settling on a TalonTigerDino plan: Lores + Forge's Redemption, maybe with Windigos, maybe with obfuscation…

There is messiness in this but it does seem to have worked decently. Unless we think the voting would be going differently if things are more clear?

Sveta08 · Tuesday at 2:16 AM

There are six plans with over five votes apiece.
Goodness. Was more than I expected.
9, 7, and 6 being the top three.
Messy yes, but most of this seems... fairly in line with recent voting distribution.

MisRAR1 · Tuesday at 2:24 AM

[x] A Foundation To Build On

[x] Plan Other Velvet

[x] Plan Historical Precedent

Shaper47 · Tuesday at 2:30 AM

Pittauro said:
Fair. Though I'm not sure we can afford 2 follower actions on searching for books
I'm willing to consider it though. Especially if we found bits in the loot

Fair point.

Reaching all 4 at least is kinda important.

I'd like to keep it as a minor? priority.

Probably worth a follower action or two in my view.

Pittauro said:
Nah. I think I might personally like something like a second stage voting between only the most popular votes though, maybe with a few lines of comment by you on what each plan tries to accomplish and perceived risks and rewards from Velvet's point of view. But even that's unnecessary

Agreed, and well spoken.

Venerable Ro · Tuesday at 2:32 AM

Been doing some serious thinking on windigoes, trying to shake out the fine details.

So;

We know that Copper's Cult had windigo jars.

We know that windigo jars require maintenance.

We know that Copper's cult was in the process of relocating.

We know that Mareinette hit a maximum breakpoint to not only steal everything in the assault site but even bamboozle the cultists into helping her load a cart.

We know that no windigoes were released during the assault.

Now then, my assumption. Either the windigoes were already moved to the new site before the assault, or they were a part of Mareinette's looting spree and we've inherited them along with the rest of the portable spoils. If they were left behind in the collapse the jars would break and they'd be loose and savaging the city.

Therefore, the jars are not going to be found at the site of the attack, either because they've been moved out of the city or because they're in our loot table.

Therefore, leaving warnings behind is counterproductive, because they won't find any windigo jars in the ruins and if they believe the warnings they'll be understandably concerned about magical superweapons in the hands of cultists. We'd be putting pressure on ourselves to find the things that we don't want to find (with the Bureau) and we'd ultimately end up in the lose/lose scenario of either not finding and securing the eldritch superweapons or finding them and letting our ponies or Eclipse futz around trying to dispel them.

The bindings require several turns to degrade; next turn, in the event that we didn't loot the cursed things, we can scry them and send someone after them. Biedde perhaps, since he's so concerned about killing monsters...

Sveta08 · Tuesday at 3:28 AM

Venerable Ro said:
Therefore, the jars are not going to be found at the site of the attack, either because they've been moved out of the city or because they're in our loot table.

Agreed.

Venerable Ro said:
Therefore, leaving warnings behind is counterproductive, because they won't find any windigo jars in the ruins and if they believe the warnings they'll be understandably concerned about magical superweapons in the hands of cultists.

Disagreed.

We, the hit squad, were there to kill Copper. We were there for three days and three days only. Aware that things were moved to the other place yes, but not aware what all was moved and how it is to be handled.
The Bureau will be there... a hot minute more than three days. And will almost certainly find the place that Copper is moving items to.

So either they will find warning of the Wendigos, but no actual Wendigo jars because we have them, or they will find them in the secondary location.
Or, they will not be found because they were awayed somehow in another way that is beyond the scope of what we would know.

If they are in our item stash, great! No problem. The Bureau is adequately warned about things that might exist in the world.
If they are not in our item stash, but the Bureau finds them with our warning, good! We did what we can.
If they are not in our item stash, but the Bureau finds them without our warning, oh no! This could be anything from accidentally releasing the wendigos to them attacking, to people dying... to those urns being taken back to Canterlot and confiscated by Eclipse! Lots of stuff, and very few options good.
If they are not in our item stash, and the Bureau doesn't find them, okay. A problem, but not the end of the world. We can hunt them down and go Wendigo popping one at a time. Like, it's bad, yes, but it's not "By the way, half the Bureau died, whoops" bad.

If we leave warning and it isn't necessary, then we don't loose anything. The Bureau might think it's nothing, or they might think it's something. We don't lose anything in the first case, and we warn them against a future potential threat in the second.

OurLadyOfWires · Tuesday at 4:03 AM

Righty-o! This was a learning experience.

Thank you all for your patience and feedback. Moving forward, I think that whenever we have an "open vote, tell me what you want" vote I will either (1) let a longer moratorium run, or (2) let a short voting period run for us to check what people are interested in.
I say a "short" voting period because, to be very blunt, it is easier to check what people want when we can use a vote tally program. I mean, to be absurdly honest, a lot more people would probably prefer to check a tally than read 300+ messages where vague ideas are discussed. So, seeing preliminary voting where we can verify "huh, a lot of people voted for Windigo-warning" is better to set up a second voting period.

That being said, that is something for us to learn for the future. For now-

Voting is RESETED

No votes cast before this threadmark will be counted

(Today is still late monday/early tuesday. Voting will close on late thursday, or most likely late friday.)

You had... several ideas. Most of them bad. Well, according to yourself, all of them were bad.

But thankfully, Selene was there with you. And she not only managed to organize your confused thoughts, but she also gave you several good suggestions.

Truly, she is the best adopted-alicorn-daughter you have.

[What evidence did Selene plant on Manehattan?]

[] Nothing. (Absolutely no evidence was planted. Better safe than sorry.) (Counts as "Zero" evidence)

-[] [SABOTAGE] You planted several conflicting, contradictory, and downright false documents. As long as they fall for it, this will cause heads to be scratched. (Attempt to hinder and obfuscate all investigation efforts. Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] You decided to start laundering some Lore-knowledge... (Lores will be picked at Velvet's discretion)
--[] [LORE-ZERO] You only planted some very vague, but educative, information about the Lores. (No specific Lores shared, counts as "one" evidence)
--[] [LORE-ONE] You planted something that, in its own narrow way, has some practical use. (One Lore shared, counts as "two" evidence)
--[] [LORE-THREE] You planted a small trove of useful information. More than enough to hook in the curious and the brave. (Three Lores shared, counts as "three" evidence)
--[] [LORE-FIVE] The Lores have their own internal logic. This should be enough for them to get it... that is, if they believe what they read. (Five Lores shared, counts as "four" evidence)

-[] [FORGE-RITUAL] You planted a set of instructions, on how to perform a miraculous feat. (Share "The Forge's Redemption". Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] [MOTH-ANONYMOUS] You planted a cold gun. It's up to them to connect the dots. (Share "The Path Through Nightmares". Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] [MOTH-ADMITTING] You planted the smoking gun, that was used to strike Princess Luna. (Share "The Path Through NIghtmares", AND a claim it was used against Luna. Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] [WINDIGOS] You made it convincing. You made it look secret. You even simulated a burn mark, to pretend they tried to destroy this "document". But in the end, you warned them about the ticking bombs. (Share knowledge about the sealed Windigo's existence. Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] [WORMS] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! (Share knowledge about the Worms, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "one" evidence)

-[] [WRITE-IN] You made up a story... (Consult QM before including a plan with a write-in)

All Lore-evidence include warnings about dangers and whatnot. No need to polish things in that direction.

As it is stated above, Velvet will be the one to decide what Lores to plant. This is both because she has a better grasp of what is easier/quicker/more useful to start with, and because leaking Lore-levels will not translate to the Bureau immediately gaining/applying said Lore level anyways.
However, Velvet Covers does not know about Celestia's doom clock. So, I must warn you that "Lore Three" and "Lore Five" WILL include leaking some degree of Lantern. That may or may not have narrative consequences down the line, if picked.

Let's give ourselves a nice, long twenty-four hours moratorium, just so we can make sure everyone sees this threadmark, and that we can discuss write-in, suggestions, or gaps that I neglected adding as an option.

Voting is CLOSED, moratorium is IN EFFECT. Vote in PLANS if you want to pick several options. Vote only for "nothing", without a plan, if you want "nothing".

Shaper47 · Tuesday at 4:14 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
However, Velvet Covers does not know about Celestia's doom clock. So, I must warn you that "Lore Three" and "Lore Five" WILL include leaking some degree of Lantern. That may or may not have narrative consequences down the line, if picked.

Warning received!!!

Let's remember this my friends.

spiderhellian · Tuesday at 4:22 AM

I definitely like the idea of things being done via a short vote of ideation and then a more directed, clearer, vote.

I'm not sure a long moratorium would do as well — I feel the nature of a moratorium is that there's a lot of discussion and it's hard to get a sense of which way the wind is actually blowing until votes come in.

OurLadyOfWires said:
You had... several ideas. Most of them bad. Well, according to yourself, all of them were bad.

I'm going to say this is because Velvet is still half-dead, and not because her subconscious was so snarled and uncertain!

Venerable Ro · Tuesday at 4:31 AM

Well now, this seems a bit more coherent, should work pretty well even. I'm thinking Lore 1 and maybe Windigoes, though I still think that's our problem to solve and I'd rather not create impossible objectives for us and our Bureau.

Earth-Destroyer · Tuesday at 4:47 AM

Thank you @OurLadyOfWires this is pretty much exactly what I want to see to clarify the voting.

Nevermort · Tuesday at 4:52 AM

@OurLadyOfWires
There is two options missing.
First is write-in from A Foundation To Build On and Other Velvet plans

[] Evidence that perpetrators planned not only to kill Velvet but also replace her (detailed study of her behavior, evidence of training in hoofwriting similar to hers and so on).
Basically option meant to blunt damage from Bureau finding manuscripts in our own hoofwirting.

You probably should confirm if it is acceptable or not .

Second is your own option of [] A "letter" sent from Windy Flakes. (Attempt to tell your investigators about Windy Flakes as a pony of interest)
It is not the most popular but at least two people voted for it and it should still be viable, right?

Shaper47 · Tuesday at 5:07 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
-[] [WRITE-IN] You made up a story... (Consult QM before including a plan with a write-in)

@OurLadyOfWires

-[] [WORMS + NIGHTMARE MOON] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! Including of course the dark secret of what Nightmare Moon really was!!! (Share knowledge about the Worms along with their possession of Luna to form Nightmare Moon, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "two" evidence)

Sveta08 · Tuesday at 5:27 AM

Wendigos (who would have guessed that's my priority?) and Lore 0 or 1 I'm fine with. Worms and or Forge, I can give or take.

Long as it has the Wendigos and doesn't go above Lore 1, I am probably gonna be cozy with that idea.

AuthorTransient · Tuesday at 5:35 AM

OurLadyOfWires said:
-[] [WORMS] Of course it sounds like the raving of a madpony. You felt like tearing your mane out just by writing it. Because why is nopony else worried about this?! (Share knowledge about the Worms, as unlikely as it is to be believed. Counts as "one" evidence)

Hey, questers? What do you think will happen if - or when Eclipse walk into the Dreamlands without Alicorn protection? Shucks, I hope I'm not giving the QM ideas here.

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

In hell we live, lament

In hell we live, lament

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Versed in the lewd.

Experienced.

Uh-oh, better hide those FOALS!

Araneae

Getting sticky.

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Experienced.

Uh-oh, better hide those FOALS!

Know what you're doing yet?

Mystagogue of ever-rippling stories

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Araneae

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

Experienced.

Mystagogue of ever-rippling stories

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Uh-oh, better hide those FOALS!

Experienced.

Araneae

Mystagogue of ever-rippling stories

Versed in the lewd.

A truly intelligent being has no time for testing

Experienced.

Shinning Glimmering and Dangerous

Dreamer

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