Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Limabot]

...
And why does everyone keep saying that the ending of Harmony is bad? I thought that with this ending the world would continue to remain roughly the same as it was in the original? This seems to be what Velvet would like to achieve, given that nothing in this ending prevents us from also achieving GLORY. Or studying the principles of Harmony.

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It's mainly just a few vocal people saying that. I am pretty sure most players are ambivalent to Harmony at worst, if not cautiously optimistic.

 

[ses]

I thought Celestia would find out if Cadence received the Grail initiation?
At the same time, the ritual does not seem to be something very obvious. I will just remind you that in canon they had time travel with the help of pony magic, in comparison with this, an ancient ritual that, with luck, can heal a bodily malus should not be so suspicious.

And why does everyone keep saying that the ending of Harmony is bad? I thought that with this ending the world would continue to remain roughly the same as it was in the original? This seems to be what Velvet would like to achieve, given that nothing in this ending prevents us from also achieving GLORY. Or studying the principles of Harmony.

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Anyone who reaches the Blank Door or otherwise learns how to do 2-aspect ritual circles will derive the existence of the five basic 2-circle rituals, as those five rituals are the self-evident applications of the 2-aspect circle.

It's likely that Celestia will add 2 and 2 together after learning The Path Through Nightmares and think "Luna's attackers were Lore users", anyone who can't provide a line of evidence tracing them to how they learned the lores becomes a suspect. We've already planted a shit-tier Lore Primer which the Bureau has found, so being initiated into the very basics of lores has a line for them to have learned it. Velvet is WAY too high level for that to possibly be an explanation, but low level adepts are now kosher among the Bureau and so forth. Cadance is not a suspect for being one of Luna's attackers and as an alicorn being able to hit Lore 0 off of shit starting materials isn't suspicious.

 

[DelightedOne]

I thought Celestia would find out if Cadence received the Grail initiation?

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She will, but the idea on the thread's mind when Cadance is found out seems to be "She is an Alicorn, she won't get in trouble".

And why does everyone keep saying that the ending of Harmony is bad?

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Because right now Glory is the closest Victory and as such the most appealing if you just want to win.

 

[Greymere]

Because right now Glory is the closest Victory and as such the most appealing if you just want to win.

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Well technically the Wolf (anti-)victory is the closest if you just want to win

But I think most of the thread wants the world to still be intact and not a be wolf-infested hellscape of eternal darkness in the epilogue.

 

[Nevermort]

I thought Celestia would find out if Cadence received the Grail initiation?
At the same time, the ritual does not seem to be something very obvious. I will just remind you that in canon they had time travel with the help of pony magic, in comparison with this, an ancient ritual that, with luck, can heal a bodily malus should not be so suspicious.

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Ritual that Celestia herself does not know? Entirely possible. But then would not she be interested in learning it? Or delegate study of it to her scientists? It is big breakthrough in unicorn medicine after all.

On the other hoof Grail Lore could be simply learned via night of heavy drinking with expert in it. Both Rarity and Cadance can attest to it. If Celestia ever ask how Cadance learned it, Cadance can just show her. If her scientists discovered Lantern, why theoretically Cadance could not have discovered Grail when she is Princess of Love itself? Granted Cadance herself must be higher that Lore 0 to teach someone else but it is doable, or maybe we can send Rarity to help them. Unless of course only Mareinette can teach Alicorns in this for some reason.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Not much reason to believe so. It defeats purpose of the action after all. Basically 180 on the current Velvet motivations. With such mindset we can as well decide that ascension to Glory would make Velvet stop caring about mere mortals. And reaching Harmony would brainwash Velvet into pursuing only common good.

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I mean in the Mother of Wolves history that got cut off she was actively trying to assassinate Jade Lantern, and the Wolf does view death as a blessing because the pain stops, and Velvet's soul would be more Wolf than Pony at that point.

The Glory, seeing as it has spawned Hours that wildly different in goals, behaviors, opinions, and personalities, has more varied outcomes for those subjected to its light.

Harmony, as is the norm for this quest, remains a big old question mark.

 

[Zxzx24]

she was actively trying to assassinate Jade Lantern

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Wha?

 

[Maer]

[X] Turns out, she just needed more friends.

[X] Turns out, she just needed you to take off your dress.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Wha?

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Our QM once wrote a couple of passages set in a post Mother-of-Wolves ending Equestria, a History that hopefully will never be, cut off from the Tapestry, so on and so forth. In that world Velvet and her wolves kill anypony that bears a cutie mark or Lore Affinity in order to keep the world dark and thus safe from the Worms, though they had not yet successfully gotten Jade. Turns out Lantern is good at spotting ambushes, knowing when assaults might take place, and detecting poison getting slipped into whatever you are drinking. These passages were not Threadmarked and were in fact accessed through some linked text back on Spacebattles, because again, that History would hopefully never be and was shown from the Tapestry.

The Wolf fucks up your headspace, man. Do not let the entity of omnicidal hate, pain, and despair gain purchase on a soul.

EDIT: Fuck it's Jade Whistle, not Jade Lantern. Gah.

 

[Shaper47]

Uh, it actually does. A Sacrament needs a Ralization after all.

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Minions are a thing.

though they had not yet successfully gotten Jade. Turns out Lantern is good at spotting ambushes, knowing when assaults might take place, and detecting poison getting slipped into whatever you are drinking. Th

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I'm pretty sure that was Baldomare not Jade.

 

[Nevermort]

Our QM once wrote a couple of passages set in a post Mother-of-Wolves ending Equestria, a History that hopefully will never be, cut off from the Tapestry, so on and so forth. In that world Velvet and her wolves kill anypony that bears a cutie mark or Lore Affinity in order to keep the world dark and thus safe from the Worms, though they had not yet successfully gotten Jade. Turns out Lantern is good at spotting ambushes, knowing when assaults might take place, and detecting poison getting slipped into whatever you are drinking. These passages were not Threadmarked and were in fact accessed through some linked text back on Spacebattles, because again, that History would hopefully never be and was shown from the Tapestry.

The Wolf fucks up your headspace, man. Do not let the entity of omnicidal hate, pain, and despair gain purchase on a soul.

EDIT: Fuck it's Jade Whistle, not Jade Lantern. Gah.

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This is some wild headcannon, but again you are speaking about passages, when I only remember a single official snippet about Wolf Ending, so perhaps I missed something. Are you sure that the rest are not just omakes?

On the other hand if we are speaking about the same segment, then it does not appear that Jade if she is indeed was Lantern Witch was in any danger from Wolves, She lived in the hut when everyone else lived in tents which means that she was not on the run. And she spoke about tonight being full of Wolves like someone else discuss bad weather, not scared, and not even out of breath. And we know that Velvet knows were she is, can visit her whenever and at the same time tries not to meet her. So it looks to me that it is Velvet who avoids her, likely due to personal reasons, but knows where she lives and perhaps checks on her, assuming it was the reason she was there to begin with.

 

[des-pair-2]

This is some wild headcannon, but again you are speaking about passages, when I only remember a single official snippet about Wolf Ending, so perhaps I missed something. Are you sure that the rest are not just omakes?

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Here is the History in question:

CONTAINMENT FIELD
!
!!
!!!

Spoiler: CONTAINMENT CELL

The Leaking Wound

!!!
!!
!
CONTAINMENT FIELD

 

[poyac]

Here is the History in question:

CONTAINMENT FIELD
!
!!
!!!

Spoiler: CONTAINMENT CELL

The Leaking Wound

!!!
!!
!
CONTAINMENT FIELD

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I liked your post because it's excellent evidence. I just didn't read past the first couple sentences of the side story because it sounded horrible.

 

[ses]

It's important to point out Jade Whistle doesn't appear in the story. The Lantern Witch is Baldomare, it's a fakeout to make you think that the normal mare is Jade but it turns out to be Velvet preparing poison, revealed when Baldomare shows up and is obviously the Lantern Witch that was described earlier. Jade Whistle is long dead.

 

[Limabot]

It's important to point out Jade Whistle doesn't appear in the story. The Lantern Witch is Baldomare, it's a fakeout to make you think that the normal mare is Jade but it turns out to be Velvet preparing poison, revealed when Baldomare shows up and is obviously the Lantern Witch that was described earlier. Jade Whistle is long dead.

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I thought the Fake Lantern Witch was Jade's ghost or something, given how critiquing the names of two fillies for being unimaginative seems more in-character for her than it does for Velvet.

 

[Pittauro]

3 hours and 23 minutes... and I have some spare time AND Mental energies to finally read the LAST two updates and vote...

...I admit I skimmed the last vote, and I'm kinda tempted to vote for the shining armor healing option, EVEN if it's super risky. As long as Shining can keep the recovered horn secret for a few more turns it won't really matter THAT much...


well, time to read.

 

[Random Anon]

Seeing as it looks like the Mareinette + lores options is going to win, who was the "pink-purple mare, with a grape-like cutie mark, who he had never seen before in his life and who is completely passed out." again?

 

[IronHydra]

2 hours left-
C'mon people, we just need a sudden 5 vote turnaround for the proper option to win!!

The Forge's Redemption is what so many of us have been waiting for, and we don't really know when or if we'll have another good opportunity to show it to Cadence.

also, showin' off our new and improved flank......for absolutely needed reasons, Very needed reasons that lead to exactly what you think, and lets us show the Princess of Love exactly how much she means to us


And you can't deny it or say otherwise!!

 

[Sveta08]

Seeing as it looks like the Mareinette + lores options is going to win, who was the "pink-purple mare, with a grape-like cutie mark, who he had never seen before in his life and who is completely passed out." again?

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Generally speaking, it is presumed to be Berry Punch.

In fanon, Lyra got hands and sitting. berry got alcoholism. Luck of the draw and all.

 

[Pittauro]

"I. AM. NOT. YELLING!"

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said Dumbledore very calmly

Regardless, the fact remains that you are here... outside on the playground, trying to calm down one of your sister's best friends who for some reason is acting like the exact opposite of that.

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I wonder if Mareinette just left a deeper impression than we hoped for.

"Being the rich filly in school was my thing. My thing," she says, stomping a hoof at the ground for good measure. "Until a noble filly, that nopony even know existed, came along. Just like that, out of the blue."

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...well, it's a fairly simple if childish problem, at least.

"Making everypony listen to what you say WAS. MY. THING!" the dirt actually becomes marked with the shape of her horseshoe now. "So how is it fair that EVERYPONY IS PAYING ATTENTION TO HER?!"

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uh.

That was actually her canon talent, even. Making other people listen to her. We saw it multiple times.

So I suppose this is kind of like when Pinkie Pie was out-partied by Cheese Sandwhich, or if Dash was outsped by another pegasus (like Lightnign Dust).

Your friend blinks once, then twice, and then she shakes her head.

And just like that, Diamond looks... well, she looks less angry now. You still feel you can mess this up, if you say the wrong thing. And by the moon you know you are not good at this.

But still, Diamond Tiara looks less angry now, and maybe more sad than she was before. To the point that the silence between you is getting uncomfortably heavy. So, you take a deep breath, and hope you aren't about to put your hoof in your mouth.

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"now that you got that out of your system, do you realize how spoiled are you sounding" Selene very much did NOT say

"I know that, and maybe that's the worst part. I know she is a good filly. But it also makes me mad that I can't even be angry at her without being the villain!"

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well, this is a good sign. She KNOWS she's being unreasonable.

Which means... truly, she just needs to vent a bit, and then some time to calm down.

None of that unnatural anger in her eyes anymore. None of that alien ugliness you couldn't really describe.

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...was this a subtle show of the influence of Evil? It can't be paranoia as Ponyville is safe from that one, and Ash doesn't fit here either...

I'm still wondering just how much the FIRST wolf son has influenced things in general. "Equestria is now a worse place"... It's been my firm belief that the extremes to which Chrysalis acted were at least partly caused by that.

It's not an expression you have seen in a while now, but it is one you think she wore a lore more frequently when you first met her. A strange mixture of confusion and helplessness, and maybe anger that she always had when...

"Is... is it your mom again? Did something happen at your..."

Diamond winces, the moment you ask that. She physically winces, as if you had just kicked her on the chest. And you immediately understand that you are right, and also that she doesn't want to talk about it.

"I-I mean, it doesn't matter!" you say, trying your best not to think of how you just jumped out of a hole, and almost landed inside another one. "Besides, what do you say we go talk to everypony? I'm sure they must be looking for us. And who knows, maybe uncle Steppes will take us all to Sugarcube Corner again!"

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her mom, and her guest that nobody remembers meeting...

Because yes, this might have been something as small as you calming down a friend. But still, you did it! You manage to make things better with just your words (and maybe the unnatural strength it took to jump out of the window with a filly on your back). But still, go you! The Princess of the Night is now one step closer to being a worthy ruler!

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Selene is the weirdest mix of childish and mature... which fits, I suppose.

Because you an everypony else look up to see... a carriage.

A flying carriage.

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..For a moment I thought this is Velvet, but then I remembered... she was there when Silky got her cutie mark.

so the only other possible one would be....

"I came as soon as I heard! Now where is my favorite filly in all of Equestria?!"​

-only to reveal Princess Cadance, the Alicorn of Love, practically storming out of the carriage and hugging your little sister. Scooping her up on her forelegs into a tight embrace, just as your own mother walks out of the carriage right behind her.

And just like that, Diamond Tiara is insanely angry all over again.

...

It seems your work of protecting your little sister will never end.

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...ok, I can't really blame her THAT much

And it couldn't possibly be the case that this is "not canon" because I undershot Silky's real power level. Right?

Right?

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well, this is about 25% as impressive as how she charmed both Axe and Biedde, so yeah you ARE underselling her!

It's canon-compliant. It's during a schoolday, so Velvet is in Canterlot, so Paranoia has free reign in Ponyville.

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...that's true, I suppose... but now she's STILL angry and Velvet is right there with Cadance...

I discovered this Quest was still updating on this site, immediately reread the entire thing over 24 hours. Great as always.

Now I do wonder, has Velvet made the world a better place through her actions so far? She has certainly made things different, breaking the bonds that tie Ponykind together and scouring clean the Woods. She helped the ritual that struck at Luna and caused that whole mess but also had helped fix that mistake. She killed the Master and dissolved the Cult but not before allowing them to make things like the Windegos. Made Cadance the happiest pony on the planet but did so by removing Shinings agency and free will.

It seems like for every life she has improved, she has cast another down into the darkness. Has she made the world better? Not clear but she has without a doubt made the world different than it was. I suppose it ultimately becomes a matter of if she stops the Worms getting inside. There is likely no crime too great to ensure that does not happen.

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Depends on what you're comparing the world too.

Things are definitely WORSE than in canon MLP... but Velvet was maybe 20% responsible at best for Luna's breakdown (the remaining 80% is the Master's fault), and she did her best to make up for her past mistakes...

Chrysalis' actions were also only indirectly connected to ours...

So, again, depends on how much of the bad things you'd say are Velvet's fault.

Satisfy the requirements of the Tribal Door having committed no murders other than Personal Winter Sacrament

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...damn.

in hindsight, we could have used EiB to kill a couple criminals for the door... assuming that counts for the door at least...

Have Rarity willingly hand over Sweetie Belle for [An Invitation to Dinner]

Utilize Twilight Sparkle for The Conversation

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daaaamn!

I think we are all tired of needing to say Harmony isn't evil(check the Son with that name if you want evil) but since I have what is basically a Dedication to it, let's go again I guess.

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I admire your persistence but also feel sorry for you for it.

You KNOW it's time wasted, right?

A lore victory only really requires the Blood of the Outsider trait doesn't it? We could have just gone the artifact route and climbed the Mansus like that(I think that is what Bird expected at first).

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Mansus: Pay to win climb edition!

So tired of this argument

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I so agree with this...

Thank you! Someone else points it out! [When Histories Change] is explicit that canon wasn't derailed until the end of Turn 4! If the Inner Circle and Velvet had gotten hit by a truck and isekai reincarnated to Earth on turn 1 everything would have played out the same as in the show, including the flashforward to Princess Supreme Twilight Sparkle a lifetime later and that's a constraint that ALL background changes to the worldbuilding must adhere to.

The light of Harmony attracts worms? Why should it need to hide? We already know what happens to those who are drawn to light...

IN GIRUM IMUS NOCTE ET CONSUMIMUR IGNI

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EXACTLY!!

The thing one has to remember about the light attracting the wolves, is that the light of harmony explicitly destroyed lesser worms, as we saw with Luna's flashback.

So, it stands to reason that if Harmony became even stronger, it could potentially destroy stronger Worms too.


That said, it's not all bad. After all if we go by canon... Gen5 is a thing. Twilight's kingdom is, EVENTUALLY, doomed, as far as canon is concerned.

I think the implication was that the fallout and Opaline and magic going away was something that happened mere decades after the end of the show, not exactly centuries. and by the time gen5 begins, it's been AT LEAST centuries since the fall of Equestria.

so... it's very possible that, while we created new problems and weakened Harmony in the short term (and objectively made Equestria a WORSE place thus far), that in the long term we will make it so that, you know, Equestria doesn't fall like in Gen5.

---

...2 hours 42 minutes left, and I still have to read the actual update and the discussion after that...

 

[Nevermort]

2 hours left-
C'mon people, we just need a sudden 5 vote turnaround for the proper option to win!!

The Forge's Redemption is what so many of us have been waiting for, and we don't really know when or if we'll have another good opportunity to show it to Cadence.

also, showin' off our new and improved flank......for absolutely needed reasons, Very needed reasons that lead to exactly what you think, and lets us show the Princess of Love exactly how much she means to us


And you can't deny it or say otherwise!!

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But Mareinette option is the one where Cadance confess her love for Velvet. Or at least tries to before passing out.

Plus we wanted to do Forge Redemption as a way to later teach lores to Cadance, so she can then work on repairing Twilight horn. It was only means to show her that Lores are good thing. Why not skip a step then. When she learns more, we can lend her Forge artifact to repair horn both for Shining and Twilight.

 

[DelightedOne]

You KNOW it's time wasted, right?

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Meh. It is fun enough and also made me appreciate Edge a bit.

And I am a firm believer of shooting down fake news.

 

[Pittauro]

"Even if it's... a bit lonely," you say to yourself, as you close your bedroom door behind you.

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Surely we can't allow THAT!

...side note, I'm reminded of canon, when Cadance basically kept up her love shield against Sombra for DAYS without sleep...

Of course, you already knew that. You already knew Shining Armor wasn't here, even before you called out for him. You already knew, because he told you in advance, that he would have to go to Manehattan for a few days for work. Something about having to supervise some kind of fallout, of an accident that nearly turned into a disaster. You aren't sure of the details, but you know it wasn't grave enough to reach the throne room.

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we do good work after all

"... another cold night, then," you say to yourself. Not even bothering to stop the frown from appearing on your face.

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Nope.

That's illegal.

VELVET, COME ON!

Maybe you deserve to suffer through these sad and lonely nights, every now and then. Because what kind of Princess wallows in self-pity like this? Not the good kind of Princess, that is for sure.

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...Cadance, you're quite clearly forgetting what Celestia can be at her worst. I'm reminded of that canon episode about her worries in sending Twilight to Ponyville...

oh, and of course Luna could be even worse than that!

Oh, who are you kidding? You aren't really a Princess. You aren't worthy of calling a Princess and you know it. You are just a substitute. A mockery, even. And you don't deserve any of this.

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eh, you think Celestia was BORN knowing how to rule? It takes time!

You don't deserve Shining Armor. He's too good for you, and you always knew that. You always knew that, and you would never have caught his eyes if you didn't have a horn on your head.

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the alternate world Cadance proves this wrong!

If anything the horn was an obstacle.

You didn't notice something was wrong with Celestia, and the Catastrophe happened.

You didn't take care of Shining Armor, and he lost his horn.

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...ok, look, that's kind of at least partially our fault... so, sorry about that?

And the one normal friend you ever made, who didn't think of you as a Princess, almost got assassinated because of you... but at least... at least you had the courage to do what was right, for her. After all, given how everypony who deals with you gets hurt in the end, you at least had the courage to cut her off and-


"-have you been avoiding me, Cadance?"

"AHHH!!!"

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...

normal friend, you say... riiiiiiiight...


You're about to be Mothered. please don't resist

You have explicitly told your guards not to let her in. You told your entire staff you did not want her to contact you anymore.

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Side note, this is terrifying.

Velvet LITERALLY got through a PRINCESS' security guard!

now, admittedly it helps that we have free access to MOST of the castle... so we only needed to worry about that last area.

BUT STILL!

Because she has her family to take care of. And she somehow has Princess Luna taking care of her. So, you don't need to know anything else, you don't need to fly into somepony else's cloud. And you do not need one of the few ponies you care about getting hurt because of you again.

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side note, the fact she has NOT told Celestia still makes me feel all warm and nice inside

You are a bad mare. You are a failure of a wife, and a fake Princess, and everypony you love gets hurt. And now, you just got caught in the middle of your poor attempt of cutting one of your only friends off from your life. So why... why in Tartarus is she smiling?

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paraphrasing Ozpin from Rwby "oh, Miss Rose Cadance, we made more mistakes than any stallion or mare in Equestria... but becoming your friend was NOT one of those!

The veil around her disappears, and you are suddenly acutely aware of her presence.

"Cadance, Cadance, Cadance," she says, as she slowly makes her way towards you. And for some reason, your eyes immediately focus on the lavish ruby necklace she has around her neck. Your eyes focus on her necklace, and then on the soft fur on her chest, and then on her neck, and finally on her eyes.

Your mind doesn't even register the strange perfume that you started feeling at some point. You are only vaguely aware that something smells good.

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On the one hand I like where this is going.

...On the other hoof, hey, we're on QQ now! So even better!

"I... I don't want you to get hurt," you tell her. Or rather, you confess to her. "Because I... I know that... Celestia, Twilight, Shining, and now you. Equestria as a whole, after I took the throne while Celestia was away searching for Luna. And even my... even my mother, when I was born, and my father before I became a Princess. Everypony I care for, everypony I try to take care of, gets hurt. So I... I don't want you to..."

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...such a bad mare, Cadance.

You made us promise not to leave you, remember?!

no take backs!

There really must be something cursed about you. Because even when you came to this world, the first act you ever committed was to take a life of somepony you loved. That was the first thing you ever did, and you never really stopped, did you? You only got better at hiding it, at the same time this curse of yours got larger in scale.

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You know, I wonder if it has special metaphysical weight in the Cultist Simulator word. being born from death, so to speak.

To which this dream-Velvet responds with a sight. A long and tired sigh, as if things did not turn out how she was expecting them at all.

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such a naughty mare. She was all there, ready for a night of fun and relaxation...

and then the mood killer

"Caddy, Caddy, Caddy. How could you even think about something like that? How could you have such a low opinion of yourself, and not even try to share it with anypony?" she says, whispers into your ears really, with words as smooth as silk. "Why didn't you share any of this with me?"

Dear Celestia this is so embarrassing and her hug is so comfortable and why in Tartarus can't you let go of her?

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it's a mistery!

[You have successfully checked in on Cadance. She is alright now.]

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But there is something about you, right now, that gives more options than usual.

So... what exactly did you do again?

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oh?! the SH sacrament is offering more options... just like the grail one seems to have helped a fair bit too!

[] Turns out, she just needed more friends.

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but what kinds of friends?!

"Shhtormy! Tha-... that's my shtormy! That's my hushband! You see that Cadance! That'sh my stallion!"
"Velvet... I don't think I can drink anymore..."
"[GRAIL]!"​

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... Why does this sounds so tempting?!

And a pink-purple mare, with a grape-like cutie mark, who he had never seen before in his life and who is completely passed out.

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berry punch. minor background pony. I dont' really remember any significant scene about her in either the quest OR the canon show, and in fact all I remembered about her was her name and how she's basically an alcoholic in many fanfics.

I have NO IDEA why she's here... I suppose Velvet brought Cadance out to drink in Ponyville and somehow THIS happened?

"Come join'us Shtormy! Haaaave a drink! We jusht got back from a girlsh night out! Caddy here neeeeded it. And we... we..."

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called it.

Leaving him there... completely shocked and...

"[MOTH]?"

Well, at least good Mareinette is still here. And she seems to be as awake and reasonable as ever. Why, she even just asked Stormchaser if he is alright!

"I am... fine, my Lady. Thank you for asking, I guess..." he says, not really being able to take your eyes from... "But, uh, are they alright? Did anything...?"

"[LANTERN]!"

Stormchaser expresses his concerns, but fair Mareinette immediately tells him everything is fine. She tells Stormchaser it is fine, and that they all just had a girls' night out, as his wife said, and that they didn't do anything Mareinette wouldn't have approved of.

Which can only mean, without a doubt, that they all had a night of reasonable and respectable fun, probably to blow off a bit of steam from their understandably stressful jobs. After all, Lady Mareinette can do no wrong, and neither can his wife. Or the Princess of Love, of course.

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ah, but if they didn't do anything Mareinette wouldn't approve of...


damn, if only she wasn't a cannibalistic monster with the only path to friendship we know of being becoming a cannibal and take a fairly questionable sacrament! I'm so tempted!

-Princess Cadance has been introduced to Mareinette. The two of them, it seems, have a lot in common.
-Through your invitation, and Mareinette's marinations, Princess Cadance has been introduced to the Lores.
-This is still a very shallow introduction, but this is the way to get this particular ball rolling.

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...I can't, in good conscience, go for this. Cadance is vulnerable, and Mareinette is... is MAREINETTE! I don't need to explain more!

He wondered if that ice will ever melt, or if it has some magical property to it that will stop it from ever truly going away. Well, the specialists told him their spells were working, even if slowly, but he hopes they follow his instructions to the letter and seal away the meltwater as a cursed substance.

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sensible. I could see it technically being a weak EVIL reagent of some kind.

"Honey, I'm home!" he said, as he closed the door behind him. It was a cliche saying, he knew, but still that was how he felt.

Because he loved his wife. He loved his Cadance! And he already felt better just from the fact he had stepped a hoof back inside his home.

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well, that makes me feel a bit better about... you know, the leash and the wedding!

However, to his surprise-
"Oh, shi-!"
"Wait, I can-!"
-he swore he just heard something from behind the bedroom door.

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...

surely not!

"Shining! Shining dear, it is so good to see you!"

-he saw his beautiful wife.

He saw his beautiful wife, and nothing else.

"

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but of course!

"Yes! I mean, yes. Absolutely. It's just that Velvet here was showing me her flank a-"
"I did no such thing and I wasn't ever here."
"-I mean, I was just... waiting for you, dear!"

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Cadance, you're the worst liar ever!

-You have shown Princess Cadance your flank. And she was delighted to see it is now healed and whole.

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oh, I'm very sure about that!

...I think I want to take this risk.

We'll try to make it as clear as possible to Shining and Cadance they should NOT reveal this to Celestia, and that Shining should hide the recovered horn for at least a few months... but we DID just introduce the lores to the Bureau.

Give us a few more months and we COULD probably justify the ritual. We can always plant it in another bureau raid as loot...

If he didn't know any better, he would even say that she is like a friend to him.

But he knows better, and he knows nobleponies like him can have no such things as friends, so he is content with having her serve as she does.

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...That's just sad. Truly Velvet Hill deserves everything bad coming his way.

Velvet Pride's blood goes cold as he hears that. To think that he will be hosting a Princess? To think he will not even have a mere week to prepare his humble estate for such noble a presence?

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...I suppose he doesn't know this is just the second time for us?

-Princess Cadance spent a few days in your home, taking some much needed time off form work, and rejoicing with your recently cutie-marked daughter.
-According to the mare herself, she will probably officially declare herself Silky's godmother one of these days.
-Yes, that is something she can do, just like that. She is a Princess! Who is going to stop her?

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certainly not us!

All jokes aside, and all insinuations that will never ever be either confirmed or denied aside

Click to shrink...

However, think very, very, very carefully about what option you will pick. The only option with no risks or possible drawbacks is meeting Silky Stream. All other options have consequences that you should think about, and that can be good, bad, both or neither. Read this entire line again.

Twelve hours moratorium. Not a high-stakes vote

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"options have consequences"

followed by

"Not a high stakes bote".

...suuuuuure.

we.. 1 hour 44 minutes to read/skim the rest of the discussion... I'm currently leaning healing ritual for Shining. It's risky, but at this point I'm fine with some risk. I just want to vote for what I want to read, basically.

As long as Shining and Cadance can keep this secret from Celestia for a few turns, all is good. It might very well be that we'll be done with the All In expedition before that ever comes up.

Also if ANYTHING could make Cadance MORE of a confidant (and actually give us MECHANICAL benefits) it's this. We could use that too, though I'd be willing to vote for this even if there were no potential mechanical benefits at all.

 

[Pittauro]

I know the thread will interpret that only in regard to Mareinette... but honestly I'm suspecting that the Forge's Redemption option may end up being very very dangerous. I'm sure everyone will chime in Mareinette fear, but honestly I think Mareinette/Cadance friendship could turn out well.

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oh, they're BOTH very risky options, it's more than clear.

It's just different risks. One is about Mareinette influencing Cadance (and maybe viceversa), and potentially putting unborn Flurry Heart in danger.

The other is about putting US in danger by, you know, risking exposure to heal Shining.

Importantly, on Turn 19 you revealed Luna to her, but you told her that "I will explain you everything later" and she told you that "I trust you on this so I will wait".

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...yeah, you know what? I think it's later NOW!

I'm leaning toward the Lore introduction simply because I don't think the Forge's Redemption is worth the investment right now. However, the Lore option does come with aspects I'm wary about. Mainly, the risk of Celestia noticing Cadance, and the potential of Mareinette somehow perverting Cadance's definition of love to convince her to do something awful.

But including Mareinette in Cadance's introduction of the Lores is a step toward befriending her, and there are far too many issues that would come from not befriending Mareinette.

(Also, if we take some friendly actions with Mareinette, her requests for re-binding might be less impermissible? Maybe? Hopefully?)

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To be fair, Discord WAS a monster, and he was reformed by friendship with Fluttershy. There's a decent argument that Mareinette is NOT as bad as Discord was.

So yes, I CAN see this being a good first step towards some kind of real friendship and reformation for Mareinette... Just like there was a genuine chance that friendship with the Master was possible. Even that it could have been possible AFTER he was... reborn as Cadance's son.

it's just a very real risk. and revealing the flank is another risk, if more from raising the chances of Celestia finding out somehow (now, or later if Shining tries to have us heal Twilight too and SHE blabs, or because he meets Celestia and she notices the horn and asks the right/wrong questions...


I'm less paranoid about Mareinette involvement now that I was on first skim, but the facts stand: Silky/pride pick is the only one without risks. It's also the only option in which we're NOT revealing anything new to Cadance though.

With the other two we're revealing lores (and maybe our summons) to Cadance, or we're revealing our magical healing ritual that can un-cripple her husband.

Did Spike have a chance?

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many. so did Twilight.

It was maybe our biggest mistake, really. We should have probably broken Twilight's faith in Celestia, preventing the kidnapping.

Alternatively, we should have painted Twilight as a potential RECRUIT so that the Cult wouldn't have imprisoned her but instead tried for a "friendlier" approach.

and then we were also unlucky in that we lost the grail influence due to Mareinette snacking on us, and then partly due to that failed the last roll we had in our meeting with Twilight where we MIGHT have been able to salvage things by mentioning the Forge ritual.

Moon did not feel like a good ending. We are undoing what The Forge of Days did. The worms are kind of stopped, yes. But this will mean the return of everything that was forgotten and without which this era is better. With this ending, the ubiquitous cults will return and, most importantly, the endless wars between the hours will return and the world will be washed in blood again.

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keep in mind that, to be fair, Equestria is NOT the world.

Equestria is... well, WAS, fairly peaceful, but it's also a peace born of ignorance and the protectiong of a demi-goddess.

There's likely plenty of war and suffering in the REST of the world, for all we know.

Harmony and Glory. These are good options, but... I don't think we know enough yet to say which one is better.

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To be fair it's probably irrelevant. We're too close to Glory, and while we might take another step or two towards Harmony depending on the results from the Memory of Light action chain, it's probably too late to fully pivot to that.

My hope is that the endings are not mutually exclusive. that harmony progress WILL matter if we pursue glory ending, or that the quest might continue after the All In expedition, either controlling a Long Velvet, or maybe controlling a successor instead in some kind of apostle run (in the Cultist Simulator game a standard victory makes you a Long (Forge, Grail or Lantern, by either reforging yourselves, giving birth to yourself, or becoming a being of "thought" that lives in the Mansus), and then you unlock a special second run where one of your cultists has to prepare a special ritual for you to ascend to Name status too (by basically creating and using an eldritch Nuclear Bomb, preparing a SPECIAL Grail banquet ceremony, or basically using hundreds of dreamers' souls as fuel for your ascension. Worth pointing out that this cultist main character dies in the process by the way... though they seem happy to have achieved their purpose)

Mother of Wolves... someone will say that some life is better than none. Send the person who says this to Warhammer 40,000. Let him reincarnate there and repeat these words.

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to be fair while life in 40k USUALLY sucks... dying in 40k is oftentimes even WORSE.

Death there could basically be a wintery end, a new beginning through reincarnation... or you're unlucky and a daemon gets you.

...though hey, not EVERYONE is miserable in 40k! the Orks seem pretty happy for example!

See, I'd be more convinced of this sort of reasoning if the Quest has not made it abundantly clear that Names clown on young Alicorns. Luna got absolutely dumpstered by the Master on accident, and even after getting Lore Levels she realizes she is no match for Axe on any level. I really don't want Cadance's understanding of Grail to be molded by the most pro-cannibalism entity currently in existence who is also amazingly skilled at gaslighting in all forms. Sure, she probably can't get Cadance to eat Flurry Heart, but there are plenty of other ponies to pounce on.

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well, not for Axe in the Wake.

going by raw numbers, she's actually stronger than Axe when going all out as a summon.

Of course Axe is not in theory free. Could she bring MORE of herself to the Wake, if she wanted? Who knows...

That said, even Longs and Names are not invincible. if you're not an Hour, you're potentially vulnerable to enough determined mortals.

Well, MAYBE full-power Names would be beyond mortal's reach... but we never really see how dangerous they can be when they're not holding back...

Currently, that seems to be so.

She wants to know Velvet, she wants Velvet to know her.

To share the wonderful insights of Grail and the potential pleasure of Velvets most regrettable act.

She wants a friend, someone that would understand.


If we go all in without her however, do you expect her not to retaliate?

Or maybe she'd go at it in the other direction, because who just got a mark that could point to them being an excellent cultist?



Perhaps she'd raised Silky as her own, be it for slaughter or revenge.

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I remember posting an analysis of Mareinette that Bird seemed to approve of. The short of it is that while Mareinette is a monster, she's probably also both grateful and intrigued by /curious about Velvet.

There are STRONG parallels between them, as mothers who dabble in Grail, and Velvet is an extremely skilled and talented cultist. from quest start (though technically she dabbled in the eldritch a bit for years before that) she went from a normal mortal mare to a sacrament, a realization, and all the other lores at Confidant Certainty.

She performed a ritual as a child by mistake, affecting ALL HISTORIES.

She's the "mother" of an outsider. She's a shadowy player in a game between demigods, and she actually brought the END of one of them

So, Velvet has the potential to stand as an equal to Mareinette, in time. AND Mareinette is likely grateful because we saved her from her confinement in the Church (really, how did she get there, and WHY could she not leave on her own? Who knows...)

Of course, Mareinette has her own priorities. She can waste a few months, nay even a few YEARS, trying to subtly entrench herself in our life, making us closer to herself so we might ACTUALLY become closer.

Even monsters want friends.

And as someone who has lived for millennia she does not get easily frustrated, she can enjoy the anticipation and wait for the prize.

Even if we didn't renew her bindings (which, remember, she COULD break whenever she wants) I'm fairly confident she won't act DIRECTLY against us.

...unless we provoke her first.


Simply put, as long as we don't try to kill her I think she'll never act against us. She'll PROBABLY hold back SOME of her monstrous insticts too, though we can't be sure of that.

So friendship with her is actually possible... except we know what the path to that requires. It's a high cost, as Sacraments are changes to your soul, sacrifices.

It's not just eating ONE pony. It's... a sacrifice of innocence. of decency. you become someone for whom eating ponies is not a crime.

We made a promise to Cadence that we'd start bringing her on board and introducing her to the truth.

Having her befriend a Name and get a loose introduction to the lores does that.

Showing her our flank and enlightening her to FR does that.

Going to Silky does not do that.

Given that the entire thing starts with having them get back together instead of being separated, yeah. Let's not keep Cadance at an arms length.

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...Oh My Hours, I'm actually agreeing with Shaper for once

So I want you to ask yourself, for just one moment. What does Cadence want. What would Mareinette see that Cadence wants.

She wants friends. She wants an escape for a time. To not have to think to be the ruler and to just be Cadence. She wants to be able to give people the answers they are looking for. Wants to be the reasuring pillar they want for her to be. And to be the giddy recently married mare she is. To have friends and laugh and drink and not have to be perfect Princess Cadence.

I believe, Mareinette can help with that. Every bit of that. As a friend, as an advisor, as a companion. As a Mother, once.

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and that's both an opportunity, and also a very scary thing...

I'm at page 369! so close!

 

[Pittauro]

SH(Baldomare): Costs 1 Baldomare action and 1 Velvet action. We are almost certainly doing this next turn

SH(Personal): Costs 1 Baldomare action and 2 Velvet actions. We're probably doing this Turn 23 once we have SH5 and Baldomare's SH Influence

Knock: Completed

Moth: 1 Mareinette action to marinate Spoiled Rich, 1 Velvet action, needs us to dedicate Mareinette's action next turn and a study action to reach Moth 4 4/4, then a Velvet action turn 23

Lantern: Needs 4 Lantern scraps and a Baldomare action. We can get one from studying the Lantern 4 artifact and 2 more from getting a max Lantern influence, but that leaves us needing to find one more scrap from either the Mansus or a Lantern studyable from Expeditions. The earliest we could possibly achieve this is Turn 24 if we're extremely lucky.

Forge: We will likely need to find the Forge Name to have a realistic chance of achieving this

Edge: Requires 1 Biedde action and 1 Velvet action as well as 2ish Edge AotLs. We could do this any time we have free actions but we're unlikely to squeeze this into next turn. Irreducible 21ish percent chance to fail and take 2 wounds regardless of how many Attentions we bring. Alternatives include a RA (lol no), or running into an enemy as weak as Heroic Shining Armor but no weaker and clowning them with an Influence (Very unlikely, maybe like a 5% chance that if we personally go to Tall Tale we run into Pharynx and he's good enough?)

Winter: Requires 3 Winter scraps, 90 bits and 3 Velvet actions. Or somehow finding Neighnia and bringing her into the fold (that ship sailed years ago) or an RA (fuck no). We can reach the scraps by studying our Winter 4 artifact plus getting a max level Winter influence via ritual highroll or Mansus.

Heart: Requires EIGHT fucking scraps. We're not hitting this in the time we have left.

Grail: Requires four scraps and ~moral dilemmas~. We're nowhere close to needing to argue this for Level 5 purposes, but Mareinette friendship is on offer by taking her invitation to dinner and that doesn't require us getting the scraps ahead of time

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in other words,

We have Knock (Axe)

SH (both), Edge (Biedde) and Moth (Personal) are in our range, we'll get them soonish, 1 or two per turn for the next few turns.

Lantern and Winter are a bit more difficult, but doable if AFTER all the other ones I already mentioned.

Grail is unlikely due to both lacking scraps AND moral considerations, Heart is just out of reach, and Forge is PROBABLY out of reach unless we get lucky.

---

...NO TIME FOR THE LAST TWO PAGES TO READ!
...I CAN'T BELIEVE IT, MAREINETTE IS WINNING?!



[X] Turns out, she just needed more friends.

[X] Turns out, she just needed you to take off your dress.



I'm voting for interesting over safe, basically.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Scheduled vote count started by OurLadyOfWires on Apr 7, 2025 at 5:15 PM, finished with 125 posts and 42 votes.

• ---

  21 people have voted

  [X] Turns out, she just needed more friends.

  • Nevermort
  • Alan975
  • Arrkhon
  • Rafuki22
  • ses
  • Potdl
  • Pororurin
  • SolemLupus
  • Sveta08
  • Earth-Destroyer
  • thefoolswriter
  • Witherbrine2671
  • Spacemurica
  • Demilich
  • DragonAbsol
  • Void_510
  • dcoconeo
  • Shaper47
  • spiderhellian
  • Maer
  • Pittauro

  18 people have voted

  [x] Turns out, she just needed some happy company!

  • Nevermort
  • Alan975
  • Limabot
  • DelightedOne
  • des-pair-2
  • MisRAR1
  • Random Anon
  • Sintonir
  • EigengrauFox
  • Worm Eater
  • Greymere
  • Hooded
  • BritBiscuit
  • Talon Tiger Dino
  • LieutenantSpirit
  • Quaxotia
  • Solace2117
  • AuthorTransient

  17 people have voted

  [X] Turns out, she just needed you to take off your dress.

  • Shaper47
  • spiderhellian
  • Maer
  • Pittauro
  • Biowolf
  • Anjaxis
  • IronHydra
  • Portec
  • Bakkasama
  • Limabot
  • DelightedOne
  • des-pair-2
  • MisRAR1
  • Random Anon
  • Sintonir
  • EigengrauFox
  • Worm Eater

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

There's a quote for this. I'm not sure if I could put it more eloquently, myself.

Spoiler: Quote

"[GRAIL]!"

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Cadance being an Alicorn will naturally be good at the lores. Her starting to get lore knowledge just from reading the Research division notes, which she can access is perfectly believable.

And teaching her about the Lores is better for getting the Forges Redemption anyway. As Cadance is a much better caster then Velvet.

 

[ses]

Alternatively, we should have painted Twilight as a potential RECRUIT so that the Cult wouldn't have imprisoned her but instead tried for a "friendlier" approach.

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Not having sold twilight as a recruit and mentioning that we had already started teaching her the Lores was frankly the most unforced error in the entire quest, more than the RAs, skipping Neighnia, losing Baldomare, and failing to find any generic summons except windigos to give to the cult.

 

[DelightedOne]

Cadance being an Alicorn will naturally be good at the lores. Her starting to get lore knowledge just from reading the Research division notes, which she can access is perfectly believable.

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But does she really have access to the notes? And she doesn't even have Lantern, the only principle we know they are studying.

And teaching her about the Lores is better for getting the Forges Redemption anyway. As Cadance is a much better caster then Velvet.

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If she has a +20 general bonus and Grail 3, yes. Anything below that and she is not, in fact Velvet is better at that by default considering she has Forge 4 and the Forge DC is 100... Cadance would need a general bonus of over +40 and over +14 in her magic stat to be considered better.