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Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Reader mode
DelightedOne said:
Wasn't that the type of thought that led to the Master surprising us and everything else that happened after that?

Short term planning is not something that should be taken as the only way to do things in this quest. We need to think about long term consequences too if not for Velvet if she wins then for Soft Sweeps if she dies.
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Long term would be to teach Cadence Lores outside of Grail, tell her more about Mansus, and see if we need to plan on how to to deal with Mareinette when we run out of means to keep her bound.
Maybe finish Church expedition and see if there are means to fix Mareinette. Maybe prepeare harmony laser somehow without Twilight help.

I simply pointed that we have other immediate priorities right now. I imagine that at least some people would not vote to teach Cadance lores if it outright demanded more actions from us. And it is not.

ses said:
Winter: Requires 3 Winter scraps, 90 bits and 3 Velvet actions. Or somehow finding Neighnia and bringing her into the fold (that ship sailed years ago) or an RA (fuck no). We can reach the scraps by studying the Winter 4 artifact we have plus getting a max level Winter influence via ritual highroll or Mansus.
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I don't see additional Winter scraps being needed being mentioned in Sacrament description. And it being one of Luna lores kind of raises it in priority. Moral wise I prefer it over Mareinette Grail too.
 
thefoolswriter said:
Heart seems like something we should attempt
As its yet traumatise velvet
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We're currently at Heart 3 0/4. It's next to impossible that we'll hit Heart 5 in time for All In, when Heart 4 is already going to take notable effort and taking into account that we're also going to be working toward acquiring Sacraments and other preparations for All In.

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Nevermort said:
I don't see additional Winter scraps being needed being mentioned in Sacrament description. And it being one of Luna lores kind of raises it in priority. Moral wise I prefer it over Mareinette Grail too.
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We still need the scraps to actually get to Level 5 and receive the benefits, even if the Sacrament itself doesn't require it.
 
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Sveta08 said:
That's true. And-

....ooooooh dang it.

Curses. Curses befouled and spoiled.
Malaise and woe be up on you.
I hate this. Because you are right.

I hate this because you are right.
And that there are two monsters in the Velvet Estate.


Curse you.
Changing my votes.
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I would perhaps ask you to reread https://forum.questionablequesting....ultist-experience.28651/page-255#post-9371269
Which the QM has said was exactly correct in her mentality before dismissing her as "Just a monster who cannot be shown a real relationship"

Nevermort said:
I don't see additional Winter scraps being needed being mentioned in Sacrament description. And it being one of Luna lores kind of raises it in priority. Moral wise I prefer it over Mareinette Grail too.
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We can progress it without reaching 4/4 but we still need the scraps to gain the perk and level 5. Otherwise it just sits around waiting for us to reach Winter 4 4/4.
 
Greymere said:
We still need the scraps to actually get to Level 5 and receive the benefits, even if the Sacrament itself doesn't require it.
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ses said:
We can progress it without reaching 4/4 but we still need the scraps to gain the perk and level 5. Otherwise it just sits around waiting for us to reach Winter 4 4/4.
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I would imagine that three Investigating the End actions needed to accomplish it would give us scraps too, at least as long as we roll decently on them.
 
ses said:
Which the QM has said was exactly correct in her mentality before dismissing her as "Just a monster who cannot be shown a real relationship"
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I was not clear both for the bit, and in frustration. My vote now reflects the Marinette path, and the Marinette path alone.

I fear and I worry, quite naturally, about what Marinette can do. I am not so blind to think that she is not hiding further abilities than what we are aware of. But then again, to Cadence, so too is Velvet. Impossibly competent in unknown areas, But trusted all the same.

But if this is the nature of love. Of trust. Of companionship and mutual growth, then I believe this is the right path.
Even though, my best efforts to divine what will happen leave me fumbling and blind this way.

Bah. Moth masters. Of course we have to leave into the abyss caller change and the unknown.
Love narrative parallels. Hate them too.
 
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Nevermort said:
I would imagine that three Investigating the End actions needed to accomplish it would give us scraps too, at least as long as we roll decently on them.
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The Sacrament 0/1 itself is essentially just "A very special type of Scrap", and the fact that the actions reward the Sacrament Scrap is what you learned from doing the Investigating the End actions. Saying that it would reward additional scraps is like saying "We will get a winter scrap for having gotten a winter scrap" when going to take a Neighnia lesson or read an appropriately leveled book. It's just that the sacrament scrap is a special scrap so they're some combination of expensive, action intensive or convoluted to earn compared to their brother scraps. That's why the path from level 4 to level 5 asks for four normal scraps instead of needing 5 scraps like the normal level progression would require.
 
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ses said:
The Sacrament 0/1 itself is essentially just "A very special type of Scrap", and the fact that the actions reward the Sacrament Scrap is what you learned from doing the Investigating the End actions. Saying that it would reward additional scraps is like saying "We will get a winter scrap for having gotten a winter scrap" when going to take a Neighnia lesson or read an appropriately leveled book. It's just that the sacrament scrap is a special scrap so they're some combination of expensive, action intensive or convoluted to earn compared to their brother scraps.
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I mean closest analogue is our own SH sacrament (too requires three actions) and it in fact gives us an additional scrap of random lore if we roll over DC ( like how we got Knock scrap via becoming Knock Velvet for a bit). Knock sacrament also included additional actions and behind each was some kind of additional reward ( like Laptop computer).
I guess it is possible that Investigating the End action give some other reward beside Winter scraps on good rolls, but it seems unlikely. Forge Sacrament is likely the same ( can be done a bit early, but with forge scraps as potential rewards)
 
Sveta08 said:
I hate this because you are right.
And that there are two monsters in the Velvet Estate.
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Oh honestly we aren't that bad, we only broke a few people, killed several more, burned down the root of pony unity, burned down everyone's curiosity to explore the unknown and filled the remnants with something that hungers for flesh of anyone exploring it and unleashed a whisper of paranoia into ears of everyone out there on our ascend to godly powers we will use for our own purposes
Why, we only outright mind controlled only one person two ponies!
 
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Arrkhon said:
Oh honestly we aren't that bad, we only broke a few people, killed several more, burned down the root of pony unity, burned down everyone's curiosity to explore the unknown and filled the remnants with something that hungers for flesh of anyone exploring it and unleashed a whisper of paranoia into ears of everyone out there on our ascend to godly powers we will use for our own purposes
Why, we only outright mind controlled only one person!
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Two, Rarity and Shining Armor
 
Arrkhon said:
Oh honestly we aren't that bad, we only broke a few people, killed several more, burned down the root of pony unity, burned down everyone's curiosity to explore the unknown and filled the remnants with something that hungers for flesh of anyone exploring it and unleashed a whisper of paranoia into ears of everyone out there on our ascend to godly powers we will use for our own purposes
Why, we only outright mind controlled only one person two ponies!
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And people wonder why I think getting Velvet to Glory is not a good idea.:rolleyes:
 
Sveta08 said:
When you have a better alternative, I will be happy to entertain it.
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Like the one I've been trying to convince people to do since I started commenting? Harmony is always an option and we are already starting it.

If Velvet dies at All-In or anywhere else it would be nice for Softy to have 1 alternative that is not her Father. Or if we free Discord by accident.

And also to minimize the damage the Stains will do if Velvet ascends.
 
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I'll be real, after all this work and sacrifice towards Glory, that we've spent so much putting effort towards. I am completely uninterested in swapping to Harmony.

As much as it's shown to be mostly benign and supportive towards good things, we ultimately don't know what it's after, its end goal. It's intention on coming to this world and subverting the Mansus and inserting the Alicorns into Equestria, drawing the worms, (even if only by osmosis.) Makes me not trust or believe in it one bit.

All in all, we're doing this for Velvet, this is her ambition, this is her desire, she strives for the GLORY, and I have no intention or want to change at this point. Now, if it was still available, I might be inclined towards a MOON ending, but I'm quite certain we're far past that point as well.

We'll undoubtedly end up doing more things to scar this world for what we want. There's too many obstacles that require us doing things we don't want to do, and there's ponies or Names like Marinette that'll try to get us to do horrendous things for our Sacrament.

I don't trust Biedde or the Colonel he serves, the only other Names we'll have on our side as a friend will be Baldomare and Axe.

You already know what I'm gonna say, but the Wolf Sacrament is by and far too good of a deal to pass up for a singular RA, and for Velvet to be a bit more mean or hostile towards those not amongst her circle and the ponies she knows and can trust. We keep complaining about not having enough time left, and this is something that will save us such a significant amount of it, as well as resources that we either A) don't want to give up, or B) don't want to waste time on looking for and trying to source out.

(While wanting this Sacrament is partly a biased take, I genuinely believe it's a better deal than we'll get with having to be more under Biedde's sights and unknowning goals, when he specifically warned us about the things we don't know hurting us the most, or even killing us. Or with Winter, we'll have to kill somepony, not even knowing who, considering we took out our main rival. It'll just give another chance for us to have a foul mark against us that could be found by a particularly driven investigator.

Welp, that's all the yapping I got for now.
 
thefoolswriter said:
I'm surprised I thought we gave up on edge and it was Grail we were aiming for
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Nah, there's just a couple of people who are rather vocal in their desire to have Velvet commit a bit of cannibalism.

ses said:
I would perhaps ask you to reread https://forum.questionablequesting....ultist-experience.28651/page-255#post-9371269
Which the QM has said was exactly correct in her mentality before dismissing her as "Just a monster who cannot be shown a real relationship"
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Cool mindset, still murder and cannibalism tho
 
IronHydra said:
You already know what I'm gonna say, but the Wolf Sacrament is by and far too good of a deal to pass up for a singular RA, and for Velvet to be a bit more mean or hostile towards those not amongst her circle and the ponies she knows and can trust. We keep complaining about not having enough time left, and this is something that will save us such a significant amount of it, as well as resources that we either A) don't want to give up, or B) don't want to waste time on looking for and trying to source out.
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It's 4 actions, a Biedde action, and 90 bits in total. That's not even as good a deal on offer as:
Yes, I made a small riddle concerning that. You ready for it?

"One of the rewards, eventually, is +1 Actions per turn"

I'm pretty proud of this one, so it might take you a while to figure it out. Still, hidden somewhere in that riddle is a possible Gift you can receive from the Wolf-Divided.

Just remember the comprehensive list we have, the one that contains good things that come from the Wolf. There are zero things on that list, so it's pretty easy to recall.
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Which we've had on offer for like the past ten turns and shown absolutely zero interest in.
 
ses said:
It's 4 actions, a Biedde action, and 90 bits in total. That's not even as good a deal on offer as:
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I think they meant Wolf Sacrament action, which is single RA action and gives both Winter and Edge sacraments and the same time.
I would say that it is convenient but RA are limited resourses and first I want to see how things with Soft and Twilight would go .
 
IronHydra said:
All in all, we're doing this for Velvet, this is her ambition, this is her desire, she strives for the GLORY, and I have no intention or want to change at this point. Now, if it was still available, I might be inclined towards a MOON ending, but I'm quite certain we're far past that point as well.
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The hell are you talking about? She's doing it so Silky and her other daughters will be safe and happy, if burning Glory to ashes would achieve it she would happily do that instead
 
Arrkhon said:
The hell are you talking about? She's doing it so Silky and her other daughters will be safe and happy, if burning Glory to ashes would achieve it she would happily do that instead
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The hell am I talking about? Turn that question back around, yes Velvet loves and wants the best for her family, but her overarching goal, has, and remains to be The GLORY. I don't know what quest you've been reading where she still actively keeps secrets from them and is still going around their backs and doing horrific things for the sake of her goal, manipulating her closest allies for all of this.
 
Arrkhon said:
The hell are you talking about? She's doing it so Silky and her other daughters will be safe and happy, if burning Glory to ashes would achieve it she would happily do that instead
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I am quite sure that Glory going dark is Wolf option. And her daughters would be safe too, as Wolf's spawns don't touch what Velvet holds dear. Thus is quite clearly the safest option (less risk to die trying to accomplish it). As such Velvet not going straight for the Wolf ending indicates that she in fact have some other motives beside only her daughters safety. Those motives being safety of the world, moral considerations or her own ambitions are open for interpretation.
 
Nevermort said:
I am quite sure that Glory going dark is Wolf option. And her daughters would be safe too, as Wolf's spawns don't touch what Velvet holds dear. Thus is quite clearly the safest option (less risk to die trying to accomplish it). As such Velvet not going straight for the Wolf ending indicates that she in fact have some other motives beside only her daughters safety. Those motives being safety of the world, moral considerations or her own ambitions are open for interpretation.
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Assuming such a Velvet isn't changed to the point of considering death a mercy in her wolf world, anyways. If she is then her daughters would be the opposite of safe.
 
IronHydra said:
The hell am I talking about? Turn that question back around, yes Velvet loves and wants the best for her family, but her overarching goal, has, and remains to be The GLORY. I don't know what quest you've been reading where she still actively keeps secrets from them and is still going around their backs and doing horrific things for the sake of her goal, manipulating her closest allies for all of this.
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Shrug.

I'm reading a story that the hunt for Glory and the call of Family are the two primary warring end states, and where most have a vested interest in which will happen, but arguing which will happen usually ends up with no one being sure.

Hell, there've been no few omake all about the crux, a few my own. Half a dozen moments where family smothers the Glory blind Velvet. Some more where her Glory seeking burns up into family problems.
 
OurLadyOfWires said:
When she is done speaking, you can barely hold your teacup anymore. Even when you try to pick it up with your horn, the cup seems to shake and tremble in your grasp.

You can barely contain your excitement.

Because this… this is it.

This is the next step, for you to reach the very top of the Mansus.

This is the way towards GL-



"Mooooooom!!!"



-but suddenly, the entirety of your Glory-seeking and ambition-driven flame is snuffed out, like a candle on the wind, as you hear Silky Stream's voice coming from nearby.

"Mom! Mom! Mom! Mommy! Mooom!!!"

You blink once, twice, and you shake your head in confusion as you hear something you haven't heard in a very long time.

Because you are currently in the garden, and it is almost midday, so your daughters should be returning from school just about now. Well, given that you can hear Silky, you figure they quite literally just returned from school.

But more importantly, a smile comes to your face as you realize that Silky is… excited. She sounds happy.

And that is something you haven't heard in several weeks. A period of time that, as far as you are concerned, is way too long.
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Talon Tiger Dino said:
Assuming such a Velvet isn't changed to the point of considering death a mercy in her wolf world, anyways. If she is then her daughters would be the opposite of safe.
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Not much reason to believe so. It defeats purpose of the action after all. Basically 180 on the current Velvet motivations. With such mindset we can as well decide that ascension to Glory would make Velvet stop caring about mere mortals. And reaching Harmony would brainwash Velvet into pursuing only common good.
 
DelightedOne said:
Like the one I've been trying to convince people to do since I started commenting? Harmony is always an option and we are already starting it.
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Paraphrasing, the GLORY, is, right, there, QM alredy said that the Harmony ending isn't viable compared to the GLORY ending, maybe if it was before Twilight kidnapping, maybe earlier...but such bridges have been crossed and burned alredy.
 
Rafuki22 said:
Paraphrasing, the GLORY, is, right, there, QM alredy said that the Harmony ending isn't viable compared to the GLORY ending, maybe if it was before Twilight kidnapping, maybe earlier...but such bridges have been crossed and burned alredy.
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I know. Won't stop me from trying to at least salvage some Harmony.
 
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(Sips tea)

Huh. This is unusually close, innit?

Adhoc vote count started by OurLadyOfWires on Apr 9, 2025 at 4:10 PM, finished with 145 posts and 42 votes.
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Rafuki22 said:
Paraphrasing, the GLORY, is, right, there, QM alredy said that the Harmony ending isn't viable compared to the GLORY ending, maybe if it was before Twilight kidnapping, maybe earlier...but such bridges have been crossed and burned alredy.
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For the same reason I posted the earlier exerpt without comment, it's good to point out for the sake of truth that we are not locked out of Harmony ending. The QM comment you're thinking of is "grumble grumble all but already locked into Glory grumble grumble" in response to commenters talking about spending actions and time on exploration. In context meaning that the Glory ending is by far the least time, effort and risk available to us. Also during the Was/Wasnt/Will Be celebration post the QM mouthpiece, in the explicit role of "give advice to the players to provide a bit of extra guidance" stated "With everything they know, and everything they don't know, I really think they should aim for the top of the house".

Personally I think we failed some important dierolls during the Snekrament that would have progressed the Harmony path and ended up getting nothing (our rerolls were consumed while poking the boundaries, no further actions were offered on that path, and we left with no bennies from pursing that path to its end), but Memory of Light is indeed progress on that path and we aren't actually hardlocked out of it. I agree Harmony ending is a bad idea and we should pursue Glory. I do think Memory of Light was an inexpensive and good option to research as there's likely some bennies on the path from having researched it. (High chance of Alicorn steroid juice from the memory study, I could easily see a boost to Selene's general bonus as a result of it.)

It's also important for a reminder to some readers: Harmony ending still includes climbing the House of the Sun. Reaching Harmony ending was never possible to do without Mansus exploration and lore knowledge, and we were explicitly told that not passing the Tribal Door and not exploring the Mansus in general would mean we couldn't finish any victory route.

I'm also pretty sure that Grail roll for our action to interact with the Principals was an actual nat1.
 
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OurLadyOfWires said:
(Sips tea)

Huh. This is unusually close, innit?

Adhoc vote count started by OurLadyOfWires on Apr 9, 2025 at 4:10 PM, finished with 145 posts and 42 votes.
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Is it unusual? This seems pretty typical for us.
 
I thought Celestia would find out if Cadence received the Grail initiation?
At the same time, the ritual does not seem to be something very obvious. I will just remind you that in canon they had time travel with the help of pony magic, in comparison with this, an ancient ritual that, with luck, can heal a bodily malus should not be so suspicious.

And why does everyone keep saying that the ending of Harmony is bad? I thought that with this ending the world would continue to remain roughly the same as it was in the original? This seems to be what Velvet would like to achieve, given that nothing in this ending prevents us from also achieving GLORY. Or studying the principles of Harmony.
 
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