Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Iustus Vitea]

There is also All-4, possible Sacraments, higher bonus, Redemption of the Forge when Cadance becomes a Confidante...

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Yes but do we need it next turn was the question and the answer is no

Getting all 4 Lores is still very important. We need it to do the next teach the family action. I am certain that Silky would not have taken thing so well with Luna, if she did not have advanced lores.

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What are you talking about? That was all Silky, she has Moth 0 and that's it.

It lets us summon Biedde quite safely this turn! That's not trivial.

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Again, not enough funds. And I'm partial to using a Risen to do it next turn anyways.

 

[Paintmaster]

Speaking of, the names have their own agency to an extent and I am sure they would have noticed the change in Selene/Luna. I wonder how they will respond?

Doubly so for Axes given she was freaking over a complete misunderstanding.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

Like, seriously. Can you imagine the funny interactions we'll get by summoning DoA and Biedde together? Especially so soon after Luna's ascenscion.

Again, not enough funds. And I'm partial to using a Risen next turn to do it anyways.

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Does it need to be next turn? I seem to recall that we can use our Risen on the turn they get made, and we can do that immediately after the body is acquired.

Actually, @OurLadyOfWires should you be including a thing for Risen actions like with the DoA possibility?

 

[Iustus Vitea]

Does it need to be next turn? I seem to recall that we can use our Risen on the turn they get made, and we can do that immediately after the body is acquired.

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It doesn't but then we'd have to drop the SH 3 reagent and both the SH Sacrament and Outsider search action benefit greatly for it's application to the CoI

Plus where would you get the AP. And again, we don't need him this turn.

 

[Greymere]

Does it need to be next turn? I seem to recall that we can use our Risen on the turn they get made, and we can do that immediately after the body is acquired.

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I mean it doesn't need to be next turn. It's mostly a matter of AP (Edit: and bits), I think.

I suppose I can try coming up with a plan, if people are that set on summoning Biedde this turn vs. next turn?

 

[DelightedOne]

Yes but do we need it next turn was the question and the answer is no

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Alright. I just wanted to make sure the thing that happens in Quests when something that could help but can be done anytime is constantly passed over (a.k.a procrastination) doesn't happen.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

I'm not really making plans, personally, but i figure for those who are, it would be a good idea to at least consider what compromises they could live with if their preferred focus isn't met. Especially now that we have a prep phase where we can shake out what servant actions work with either path, and which need to be quibbled over.

That way voters don't end up having to try to consider about a dozen different choices when there's only a few that really matter.

 

[Solace2117]

I still think we need to do the SH Sacrement this turn. Realistically I just don't think it's practical to do two of the same action in one turn and we may need the SH re roll for it. Yes we have options for more actions, but stuff comes up constantly, which considering the stage of the quest is fair, and it's better to have more flexibility each turn without having to sacrifice follower actions if we don't have to.
I'm glad Celestia didn't roll a zero, but I'm kind of curious how a Wolfed part of her would have viewed Velvet. It might have been interesting if the threat directly from her was reduced while the other effects to the world at large took its spot.
As to the actual plans. I really like the idea of Luna summoning Axe from a story perspective, but I do get how hesitant people are to risk it. I do think we should approach Comet, if nothing else then to get a feel for where he stands, we may have already avoided it, but if not I'd like to prevent the History where he is killed opposing Velvet. I also think we should wait till next turn to summon Biedde. If nothing else so we don't have two summons expiring the same turn.
As to everything else, everyone has a lot of ideas, for me it just depends on how it's made to fit together.

 

[Void_510]

I can see why some people are having trouble with the change in voting but overall I like it. We usually know what we want Velvet to do so we know how many AP we want to get extra and this also allows Velvet to react to results of the followers actions.

Here are my thoughts on the actions to take for this turn. [Edited due to Bird's projected revisions]

I want two extra actions.

Summoning Axe is a given.
Baldomare - Look for the location of the Frangiclave. Leave the method up to her rather than asking her to use RotT.
Rarity - I went for the bits, It seems like we will need them.
DOA - I want to send her on the Canterlot expedition. get it done so we know what is down there before next turn. If we do find a book then that is multiple actions and bits saved, if we don't then we know.
Mareinette - I want to take a Heart lesson both because Heart currently has the least options for advancement outside random chance and more importantly I want to get a better understanding of Mareinette through her understanding of Heart. We've already started talking about both attacking and befriending her. Let's start by seeing if there is anything to her we don't consider an affront to Harmony.
Selene - I want to take the +general bonus physical this turn to increase her abilities to take on any missions or danger in the future and the +health one next turn. After Axe she is also one of the most combat capable people in our retinue outside Mareinette. That would leave the random training to most likely hit one of the lore realizations. With her other action she can Guard our home.
Jade- RotT manuscripts or Memory of Light.
Fluttershy - Nothing, used to get an extra action

The Bureau - Detectives to continue investigating with a focus on refining the list of suspects to the most likely to be either corrupt or colluding rather than incompetent or a fool, or even just fooled. Then next turn we bring in the first group and see where we can go from there. Constables - Extra action. Commisioner - Start trying to get an in with Midday Dew.

No general actions.

For Velvets Phase -
This would leave us with 5 actions for next turn.

I would like to use the free social on Filthy, hit the Comet FO, start the search for the Outsider, read the Forge books, and the last two will be determined after the results from the Follower phase are in. Probably either Call an influence and SH Sacrament or raising our follower levels. For the free Mansus exploration we have, I would like to remind people that we have the Ashlands open for exploration now as well.

Spoiler

FOLLOWERS PHASE

Non-contested summoning: Would you like to summon the Daughter-of-Axes before this turn begins?

-[X] Axe, yes! (Costs one VELVET action)

The Lunar Bureau

-[X] [DETECTIVES] (FOLLOW UP) There are still changelings out there. Hunt them. Look for them, and for the ponies who colluded with them. (One of the chief expectations of the Bureau. Avert a future Catastrophe)
-- Narrow the list of suspects to the most likely to have knowingly colluded or to have looked the other way due to corruption. Right now we've cast a rather wide net, let's narrow it down before we start breaking down doors. We can revisit the rest of the names on the current list after that.

-[X] [CONSTABLES] It is less paperwork for you if they just help with the investigations. (NO ACTION from the Constables. GAIN one VELVET action for the next phase)

-[X] [COMMISSIONER] The Lunar Bureau is not the only recently-minted institution in Equestria. Try to contact the others.
--[X] Eclipse(?), and Midday Dew.

Exclusive actions
"You are the only one I can trust with this"
Picking an action from any of these lists will "ensure/lock" that pony to that action, and that follower will not be available for the pool of "general actions".

Rarity (3 health, GRAIL 3, FORGE 1)

-[X] [RARITY] Take a commission. (Gain at least 100 bits immediately, will "fail" her career roll)

Jade Whistle (3 health, LANTERN 3, HEART 1)

-[] [JADE] "You do you." (Let her do what she wants, and hopefully rest)
-[] [JADE] Research "A Memory of Light" (Current progress 0/100, uses Learning and LANTERN)
-[] [JADE] Something else? (WRITE IN)


Fluttershy (3 health, WINTER 1, UNKNOWN nonexistent)

-[X] [FLUTTERSHY] Ask Comet to Guard your home.

Baldomare (2 health, LANTERN 6, SECRET HISTORIES 6)
(Baldomare will expire at the end of turn 20)

-[X] [BALDOMARE] Something else? Look for the location of the key DoA needs to free herself

Mareinette (??? Health, GRAIL 6, HEART 6)
(Mareinette's bindings will expire at the end of turn 19)

-[X] [MAREINETTE] Ask for a lesson on the Lores. (HEART)

The Daughter-of-Axes (5 health, KNOCK 6, EDGE 3)
(This is available ONLY if you choose to summon her this turn. QM is assuming you will succeed.)

-[X] [AXE] Something else? (WRITE IN) Canterlot Expedition


Selene (5 health, MOTH 3, EDGE 3, WINTER 3, KNOCK 3)
(As an alicorn, Selene has TWO actions per turn)
(Even if you do not pick any "Training actions", Selene will randomly pick one and auto-succeed on it during this turn. If you pick a "Training action", her random chance will not pick any actions you tell her to focus on.)

-[X] [SELENE] This body is new to her, but it is old to the world. She must learn of its abilities and privileges. (Grain +5 to her General Bonus) (TRAINING ACTION)
-[X] [SELENE] This body is old to her, but it is new to the world. She must learn of its restrictions and limitations. (Gain +1 total health) (TRAINING ACTION)

"Cover your bases"
(You may only pick ONE of the following options)

-[X] One extra Velvet action! (Costs 2 follower actions)

 

[BritBiscuit]

Actually now that I think about it, considering that Mareinette is in the Wake permanently i.e not just an extension of a much greater being into the Wake, and that characters in this quest follow their own agenda/desires when we aren't looking, does that mean that considering that Mareinette is a Mother, a Grail Name and an Alukite, would she not currently be seducing servants in our Estate and getting pregnant to consume children for the first time in an Era (made better for it being her own product as it were) or is it a case of bindings stopping her currently or her waiting for a chance to NOM Velvet or one of her Children if offered?

I mean we see characters like Baldomare are free to get their wines and DoA is free to wander the house and get given plushies, so considering Mareinette sees children as like a tiny bottle of fruit shoot wouldn't it make sense for her to be pursuing her own desires whilst we don't have our eyes on her.

Actually now im curious about what every possible Names passtime/vice is for summons, I imagine for Neighnia it would be discussing with servants and families about their memories and regrets, for Biedde it would either be just strict disciplined guard duty or maintaining their tools and uniform, for the Master (in a history where they weren't the Master) possibly pranks and leading our daughters on treasure hunts in the Estates fields/forest. Considering we haven't met the Forge one iirc i'm just going to assume that they would tinker away and break old objects.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

It would perhaps be best we not go theorizing on what sort of horrors Marinette might or might not be doing where we can't see. That's liable to just drive us into a frenzy of paranoia and horrible thoughts that we can't Actually do anything about, and might not even be true.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Oh im not paranoid about it im just kinda curious about where her priorities lie, is her draining the wine cellar higher than socialising servants? Is keeping Velvet happy higher than excuse my euphimism 'making product'? Is her favorite colour red or is that just a fact of her life as a Grail Name? All these questions and more, but im not really concerned about any of them its just my Lantern curiosity.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

You may not be, but I've seen similar concerns be brought up before—there's even a recent omake that suggests she's been running around murdering people this whole time—and people already plan to kill her on a semi-regular basis. Not everyone is so innocent in their curiosity.

 

[BritBiscuit]

So clearly to stop the plots for murder we just get her a ticket for a holiday in Griffonia for some KFC if she ends up making her way back we just send her somewhere else for new culinary delights

Edit: Now im reminded of those videos showing that horses and that aren't stictly herbavores where a horse just lowers its mouth and hoovers up a chick from a nest, and now im thinking of the image of a giant skeletal horse just walking into a Griffonian village and just scooping up a Griffon Chick that they walk past with like a *pop* sound.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

I mean the omakes by Bird that are from her perspective show that she is doing some variant of eating foals, getting mares pregnant and then eating their foals and so on.

Now there is the obvious caveat that those weren't entirely canon but they're canon adjacent soooooooooooo

So clearly to stop the plots for murder we just get her a ticket for a holiday in Griffonia for some KFC if she ends up making her way back we just send her somewhere else for new culinary delights

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Bad, murder is murder be it Pony or Gryphon.

 

[Nevermort]

Would Mareinette be any good in hunting down Changelings? She can probably sense them ,right? Or perhaps she can join our detectives and if they check nobles she can help them expropriate any ill gotten gains while at it.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Mareinette might have even been around and witnessed their crime that caused the Changelings to be cursed with Grail Thrist, she is either one of the best people to hunt them down as she would know their methods and see their desires or the worst as she may symphasize with the feeling of a never ending Thrist caused by Grail.
I reckon she is probs a great option as going against us is unlikely as she is a monster so sympathy for the Changelings is incredibly unlikely, actually it might even give us some goodwill with her as eating Mansus criminals and the experience of crunching chitin and bug meat so starved of love would probably be a novel flavour, its not like she wouldn't be able to Grail the Detectives into letting her take 1 or 2 corpses from a hive after all.

 

[Nevermort]

Mareinette might have even been around and witnessed their crime that caused the Changelings to be cursed with Grail Thrist, she is either one of the best people to hunt them down as she would know their methods and see their desires or the worst as she may symphasize with the feeling of a never ending Thrist caused by Grail.
I reckon she is probs a great option as going against us is unlikely as she is a monster so sympathy for the Changelings is incredibly unlikely, actually it might even give us some goodwill with her as eating Mansus criminals and the experience of crunching chitin and bug meat so starved of love would probably be a novel flavour, its not like she wouldn't be able to Grail the Detectives into letting her take 1 or 2 corpses from a hive after all.

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Actually they may be a good food for her, their sacrifice gives +30 to grail, while normal pony only +10. I remember Changeling prisoners being very useful for summoning. Perhaps Marienette has chance to find us some if it helps. We would still lack Edge for Beddie though.

Doubt that Marienette would have much sympathy in her toward Changelings, or that it would prevent her from following orders. On the other hand she is liable to start using them for her own goal if we don't keep close eyes on her. If she can pose as Velvet she can pose as Changeling Queen too, how anyone will tell the difference

 

[Pittauro]

I'm back... and from a bit over a page behind, I'm now a bit over TWO behind, cause of course I am...

7) Prepare Jade's house (again) -> Change to "Destroy the evidence found by RotT" (Most likely: Selene)

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Wouldn't it be better to wait until Selene's training is complete before we do this?

It would give her an extra +10 general bonus, AND +5 from lores (probably moth), AND rerolls...

she's basically twice as good after her training in terms of bonuses for her lores.

Also I'm not sure I want to send Luna on what's basically an expedition against the cult all on her own. They have Windigos.

…Right. That nat100 on reading the Forge book that gave us double scraps. Now I remember.

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oh, I didn't remember the nat100 thing.

Ah, thank you both for that info. I've not played the game, so I'm only aware of it as "The Key that only Opens"

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in case you're curious:

There are keys that open doors; then there are keys that destroy them.

~ Description

It cannot be locked away. Keep it in the hand or beneath the tongue.

~ Gift text

fun fact: in-game, the Frangiclave allows you passage through the Peacock Door. Here it would be the "Mirror Door" we found already broken by the Forge of Days. It's either using this key, or sacrificing an artifact mirror of succient lantern intensity (the mirror breaks in the process, but you can repair it later.)

in game you need to "pay" to open the doors each time, so the Frangiclave, allowing you to open the door for basically no price, is of immense value.

By the same token, the equivalent to the Tribal Door, (The Spider Door) requires only one living sacrifice (that's eaten by the door), but you need to pay that price each time. Though I think you're actually allowed to go around it, so to speak. It's not a "TRUE" Door, so it's possible to climb without ever opening it.

Agreed.
And given that I don't see anything in the current planning stages as needing that Knock re-roll, I am fairly comfortable with having Velvet do the summon otherwise if we are absolutely paranoid.
If we are comfortable with a smidge of risk, the Selene summon is recommended.

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when we KNOW this summon will be contested (assuming Copper doesn't know about the Wrong Keys... and she probably doesn't, or she wouldn't have tried to EiB us I think), something like a 25% risk of failure is too much.

I'm starting to becoming a bit more paranoid about Biedde too, but that's because... we don't know if/when Copper will reach that high.

She needs to get through the Ruined Church, AND the sort-of-destroyed Concursum/Chamber of Ways, to reach Biedde at the edge of the Worm Museum.

That's not easy to do. Arguably she should not be able to do it at all, but if she tries hard enough and gets artifacts to help I can see her managing it eventually.

Problem is, we don't know if "eventually" is next turn, or in 5.

But at least we don't know FOR SURE the roll is contested, and arguably it's better to try this turn with 80% success chance then wait the turn after for a 90%, if we want to minimize the chance of Copper getting another Name.

but then there's the talk about if we can afford it bit-wise while also doing our rituals and expeditions.

Though trying to get bits from both Mareinette and Rarity would make me feel better about that. 100 MINIMUM from Rarity, and an unknown amount from Mareinette...

I'm considering teaching Rarity so she'd do a better job, honestly.

as a side note... We have a horrible, incredibly dangerous monster at our service for the next 6 months or so... And we're sending her getting money for us.

We're treating her as a whore (sorry, High Class Escort), and Velvet is her PIMP. Fits that we're having Velvet do this only after we moved to QQ, doesn't it? @OurLadyOfWires

The thing about the commission is that a) it automatically fails Rarity's career roll for that turn and b) it's very stressful on Rarity. Meaning that if we take a commission, the passive bits we will receive next turn will likely be greatly reduced, and we can't really take two in a row because it would be too stressful on Rarity.

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or next turn we have her focus on her work, and she probably catches up?

failing a roll presumably means that THIS TURN we get the Commission, but not the OTHER passive income (which is what we want), AND as long as she doesn't fail too often that shouldn't matter too much.

Mechanically she's failing a roll. Narratively what that means is that for a month she's not sending new designs to the Needles, but instead selling a dress privately for FAR MORE than she'd get through her normal job.

so, for that month, the Needles don't pay her. But she's still the mare that made the wedding dress of the Princess of Love. She quite literally will never run out of clients unless she completely fucks it up, or people stop caring about clothes at all.

I quite agree, but any plan involving using the Elements of Harmony together would require her. so I can see why she is popping up again.

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any plan involving Twilight really has one requirement before even being seriously considered.

Having either Luna (risky option) or Cadance check on her and tell us how she's doing.

Potentially, have Luna perform an Incision on Twilight (if she somehow can do it from the Dream-Realm), or maybe help her by treating her nightmares? Also bribe with horn restoration, and explain WHY Celestia has not looked for her and how in danger (and dangerous) she currently is

it's definitely not viable NOW. It could become viable later.

Or, if you are still uncertain, a different route. Spending Mareinette on acting in Velvets steps to "juice" a commission might work. Velvet is already someone who has been known to be the contact for Dame Rarity. Having "Velvet" speak and use her force of personality to speak to the commissioner .... If you want to supercharge the bit gain, that could work.

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uh. That could be an extremely good and morally mostly acceptable way of having Mareinette gain us money. SHe'd just help us con rich nobles and businessmen to pay Rarity more than they normally would.

@OurLadyOfWires would that work? Would it work better or worse than having Rarity and Mareinette gain money separately?

Imo, there's no real benefit to doing the commission this turn vs. next turn. We get the bits in time for Frangiclave/Biedde either way, and doing it next turn means we have a greater chance of getting Rarity's normal (or better) bit amount for this turn's career roll vs. definitely lower than average.

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I don't expect it to work that way.

For the turn we do the commission, we don't get the passive income because Rarity "fails" the roll (narratively doesn't work on Needle Contract, but only on the Commission).

Turn after, Rarity goes back to her Needle work, and if we give her a focus on it she autosucceeds, so all goes well and we get the usual range of bits.

My one doubt is if teaching her would increase either commission or needle work bits reward, and if it's enough to be worth a Velvet action for the lesson.

[] Rescue what is left of her. (THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION)
-You will save... not Celestia, but a filly called Ainé. And maybe, just maybe, something more besides.
-The world will pause its breath, as it is introduced to its new and terrible regent.
-THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION.

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I don't get it, Bird! How could Velvet ever regret getting a new daughter?!

If this is a Regrettable Action, than so is saving Soft Sweeps, and you explicitly said "that's not a regrettable action, because she'd never regret saving her life"!

I like to theorycraft about wolf-sons in my off time (do not judge me ) and every now and then I come across the idea of "negative spaces".

This is a bit of a stretch, but this is how I my thoughts run, when they go down this road.

You would have rescued Ainé, yes? That would mean you had rescued "hope". That "hope" was safely tucked away in your home, in the shape of a filly.

But if "hope" is currently, and exclusively, in your home, doesn't that mean it is absent from everywhere else?

"Hopelessness" would be a good son for that. Especially given what Celestia would be doing in the meantime as well, and how ponykind in general would react.

This feels a bit like a Pandora's Box interpretation of hope, but it's where my theorycrafting led me, at least once.

Edit: Desperation and Despair also sound like great names, for the same idea.

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Interesting and sensible way to go about it.

By destroying the Tribal Door, we removed the need for ponies to depend on each other. That means they can afford to give into Paranoia and give up their unity in fear of potential betrayal.


We sacrificed the Woods, and Thus the fear of the unknown of ponykind... and, arguably, the fear of a very known Danger to Velvet. And thus, a known/knowable danger now afflicts everyone else.


...how does this fit the first one, though? Velvet Saved herself, and thus any chance Equestria has of a good ending, but that means that until such a good ending everything will be a bit more bad?

…You know, I would feel really sorry for Silky if that happened. Because the moment Selene grew up, she would have to start considering if Aine would as well. And that's a really sad thing to have to live with expecting.

In the other hand, she's also sister to two Princesses. So that's nice.

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They'd give her the best birthday presents!

She is a Wolf-Powered Pegasus, and the Wolf did not consent to this.

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Many people did not consent to the Wolf from what I heard, so it's just fair.

Yeah, I don't like the odds of failure there either. Sorry Luna. You must train harder.

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if she was all-4 she'd be just better than Velvet at so many rituals... she covers 6 of the 9 principles, so if we can get Artifacts for the last 3 (Lantern, Forge, Grail...)

Nah, the Plant Corpses are the Moth Risen, and those don't exist anymore since we burnt down the Woods.

…Actually, that makes me wonder. If the Master was the will of the Woods, and we were using bits of the Woods to animate our Risen, did the Master have awareness and possibly control of them if he wanted? Hell, this really puts the fact that we used them as sacrifices in summoning the Master into a very ironically appropriate context.

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I'm still not 100% certain a seed of the Master didn't survive somewhere, somehow...

Like in Starry, or as a wolf-corrupted grove...

I'm fine waiting on Forge 4. We don't seem likely to get scraps there any time soon, either. And since people seem to have worked out viable alternatives to level 4 reagents, it's just not necessary.

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getting a potential new expedition site (or other interesting knowledge) from the not-lore-book is tempting though.

Right now books are too expensive. Expeditions, on the other hand, are cheaper when you see what rewards they give, and we're about to have FOUR beings capable of soloing easy expeditions on their own (or at worst as a couple).

Velvet, Axe, Mareinette, and Selene.

All of them can quite literally do expeditions on their own, fairly easy.

Also I think in a turn or two we might want to bring Cadance into our conspiracy with Luna by our side, which gives us reasons to prepare AT LEAST 2 Redemption rituals, and maybe 3.

One for Velvet
One for Shining Armor (though he'd have to hide having his horn restored... but he's already using a prosthetic, so it's a matter of if we can trust him NOT to use magic in public (we admittedly probably can't))
and One for Twilight (IF we somehow get her to join our side.)

Getting all 4 Lores is still very important. We need it to do the next teach the family action. I am certain that Silky would not have taken thing so well with Luna, if she did not have advanced lores.

Personally I am thinking it time to spend 2 actions on the Mansus, getting scraps for Lantern, Knock and Edge from the names we have access to.

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oh, right, there's that too. I actually kinda forgot.

Much as I've fallen off on wanting Biedde immediately, I do have to admit it would be pretty dang cool to finally have Bird's dream of a halfway house for Names fully achieved. Four seperate old Monsters, Luna possibly counting as a fifth, and Velvet as the most powerful mortal alive is just a really funny household image.

Oh, and Soft Sweeps too! Just for the lols.

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Cadance is also always a welcome guest, if that matters! and we kinda need more staff, so we could hire some new Mares as Maids...

---

1 page left, I need another break!

 

[angelsadvocate666]

oh, I didn't remember the nat100 thing.

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I mean, it's literally the only time we studied Forge IIRC. I can't remember where we got the first scrap, but that book gave us the whole of Level Two, and then SH shenanigans meeting Forge!Velvet gave us the whole of Three. Velvet's Forge progression has always been weird as fuck.

We're treating her as a whore (sorry, High Class Escort), and Velvet is her PIMP. Fits that we're having Velvet do this only after we moved to QQ, doesn't it? @OurLadyOfWires

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Look, if Bird hadn't made the primary social Name the literal baby eating Monster that even other eldritch abominations fear and hate, maybe we would trust her to do more appropriate actions.

 

[Rafuki22]

If this is a Regrettable Action, than so is saving Soft Sweeps, and you explicitly said "that's not a regrettable action, because she'd never regret saving her life"!

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She saw Soft as a daughter, Aine was, in simple terms, just a stranger.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

She saw Soft as a daughter, Aine was, in simple terms, just a stranger.

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Well, she would be until about five seconds after the action ended and Velvet realized she was holding another Alicorn filly. Then the Mother Lore would kick in.

 

[DelightedOne]

I mean, it's literally the only time we studied Forge IIRC. I can't remember where we got the first scrap, but that book gave us the whole of Level Two, and then SH shenanigans meeting Forge!Velvet gave us the whole of Three. Velvet's Forge progression has always been weird as fuck.

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It actually came from the same book, here:

You have gained two scraps of FORGE Lore by reading a single book.

FORGE is now level 1!

You have done more than learn about simple mechanisms and gears. What you did was gain true insight on why it is that things move. Gain one extra scrap of FORGE Lore. Your report on this book will have double weight at the Bright Library.

FORGE is now level 2!

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Two levels at once. That is so Velvet coded.

 

[Sveta08]

-snip

uh. That could be an extremely good and morally mostly acceptable way of having Mareinette gain us money. SHe'd just help us con rich nobles and businessmen to pay Rarity more than they normally would.

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Glad you seem to agree on the Marinette idea for bits gaining. It feels the best way to show .... Tentative trust for Marinette to hopefully offset some problems in the future. And, hopefully, would increase the bit gain.


But! As for other thoughts..... I regrettably don't think we can tell Cadence about Selene yet. Or, in this case, Luna.
Cadence was.... Not raised, but grown. Aspired. Shown the way by Celestia. She trusts Velvet, but she is about as close to a beating heart as you can get without Grail and Heart. Showing her Luna exists, but having her best friend Velvet ask to not inform her mentor/parental figure Celestia about it because, according to what Velvet says, it would be bad? When she might hope to get her Celestia back?

Not to mention, Cadence can do math.
She knows when we got Selene.
She knows how many Royal Guards were still dying at that time. How much it weighed on her. Her specifically.
How Velvet helped pull her out of it. Velvet specifically.

We can tell her.
But that will do damage, and hurt.
And I don't know if we can afford settling that disturbance right now.

 

[angelsadvocate666]

It actually came from the same book, here:

Two levels at once. That is so Velvet coded.

Click to shrink...

Oh, wow. Yeah. So Velvet just, uh… really likes gaining lots of Forge at once, but only does it rarely. The other two scraps we've got are from breaking a Door and seeing a memory from a Forge Name watching another Door get broken.

Also just in general Velvet gaining a bunch of Lore scraps is just typical because she's crazy like that.

 

[Iustus Vitea]

But! As for other thoughts..... I regrettably don't think we can tell Cadence about Selene yet. Or, in this case, Luna.
Cadence was.... Not raised, but grown. Aspired. Shown the way by Celestia. She trusts Velvet, but she is about as close to a beating heart as you can get without Grail and Heart. Showing her Luna exists, but having her best friend Velvet ask to not inform her mentor/parental figure Celestia about it because, according to what Velvet says, it would be bad? When she might hope to get her Celestia back?

Not to mention, Cadence can do math.
She knows when we got Selene.
She knows how many Royal Guards were still dying at that time. How much it weighed on her. Her specifically.
How Velvet helped pull her out of it. Velvet specifically.

We can tell her.
But that will do damage, and hurt.
And I don't know if we can afford settling that disturbance right now.

Click to shrink...

It's not Velvet asking for Luna to be hidden though.

Selene is and for very good reasons too. Nobody wants Nightmare Moon Cestia version running around. Also, a lot of Cadance's trust in Celestia has been eroded, while she hasn't given up on Celestia entirely yet its getting close. If we can't tell her under these circumstances we won't be able to tell her ever.

 

[Pittauro]

As to the actual plans. I really like the idea of Luna summoning Axe from a story perspective, but I do get how hesitant people are to risk it.

Click to shrink...

Things didn't line up properly. 2 more turns, and Selene would have been PERFECT for the summoning.

But it was not to be.

Look, if Bird hadn't made the primary social Name the literal baby eating Monster that even other eldritch abominations fear and hate, maybe we would trust her to do more appropriate actions.

Click to shrink...

I'm not exactly complaining here, but you have to admit it's extremely amusing!

Glad you seem to agree on the Marinette idea for bits gaining. It feels the best way to show .... Tentative trust for Marinette to hopefully offset some problems in the future. And, hopefully, would increase the bit gain.


But! As for other thoughts..... I regrettably don't think we can tell Cadence about Selene yet. Or, in this case, Luna.
Cadence was.... Not raised, but grown. Aspired. Shown the way by Celestia. She trusts Velvet, but she is about as close to a beating heart as you can get without Grail and Heart. Showing her Luna exists, but having her best friend Velvet ask to not inform her mentor/parental figure Celestia about it because, according to what Velvet says, it would be bad? When she might hope to get her Celestia back?

Not to mention, Cadence can do math.
She knows when we got Selene.
She knows how many Royal Guards were still dying at that time. How much it weighed on her. Her specifically.
How Velvet helped pull her out of it. Velvet specifically.

We can tell her.
But that will do damage, and hurt.
And I don't know if we can afford settling that disturbance right now.

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure that shows TRUST to Mareinette. It just shows Velvet believes she can control her, really.

And it's too soon to tell Cadance yet, but I think we could do it later on. And, technically speaking, we don't even need to tell her Selene is Luna yet. and Luna can convince her herself in a dream-meeting.

---

Ok, a thought:

If we have Mareinette give us an heart lesson, then Next Turn we could get all-4. That has some potential, I think, in that it allows us to level up our whole family (Stormchaser, Soft Sweeps, Silky).

Yes, right now only Stormchaser shows actual lores, but I think we were told there WILL be effects on all three.

Selene, of course, is a special case, and if let her train in peace this turn and the next she'll basically be at her cap by the end of next turn.

Though we might want to use one of her actions at some point. As I said before, Any of Selene, Velvet, Axe and Mareinette can basically do Expeditions on their own, and then they can get books, artifacts and reagents for us for much cheaper than actually buying them.

---

OK, so, HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON PLANMAKING

AXE:

YES, obviously.

so Velvet starts at 4-1= 3 actions.

BUREAU

DETECTIVES: either changelings or foreign threats. Probably changelings

CONSTABLES: extra action. we need it too much

COMMISSIONER: I'm leaning Midday Dew, but I'm willing to go for something else.

FOLLOWERS

Rarity: Commission. we need the money, either now or next turn. Might as well get ahead.

Jade Whistle: Scrying, either for a lvl 5 book (from expedition, and we'll have either Luna or Mareinette do it next turn), or for our manifests if we want to destroy them.

Fluttershy: probably sacrifice for extra AP

Baldomare: Scry for Frangiclave. A MUST:

Mareinette: Either gain bits (potentially by helping Rarity be payed more, or just by GRAILING herself out, I don't care), or an heart lesson with the idea being we'll reach All-4 on turn 20 or 21 (depending on if we have to have her do an expedition next turn, or can afford the Heart Influence instead)

Velvet Axe: Canterlot expedition.

Selene: Training

Household servants: Sacrifice for extra AP with Fluttershy.

---

Can we agree to the above? IF YES, WE CAN DISCUSS THE DETAILS OF VELVETS NEXT 4-1+1=4 ACTIONS in the NEXT update.

I suppose there's only ONE more thing worth discussing that CAN'T be delayed (remember, delaying the REST of the vote means next time we have it easier, as we only need to talk about specifically Velvet).

Do we want to summon Biedde now?! Because in that case we'll want to also make Reagents and Biedde summons part of THIS vote, I think.

@OurLadyOfWires if we decided to go for Biedde now, how would you go about it? We obviously can't plan his action if we don't know his traits, so would you just let us pick his action mid-turn if the summon succeeds?

---

I think that if we can get an at least 80% chance of summoning for Biedde NOW, AND it doesn't compromise the Frangiclave and Canterlot Expeditions, then we should go for it.

Between Mareinette AND Rarity Commission getting us bits, (and then Rarity "normal work" next turn) we should be able to afford everything, shouldn't we?

It's not Velvet asking for Luna to be hidden though.

Selene is and for very good reasons too. Nobody wants Nightmare Moon Cestia version running around. Also, a lot of Cadance's trust in Celestia has been eroded, while she hasn't given up on Celestia entirelyyet itsgetting close. If we can't tell her under these circumstances we won't be able to tell her ever.

Click to shrink...

we even have the perfect story.

Without going into ALL the details of our occult stuff:

"Cadance, as you can see something happened to Celestia. Something similar to what made Luna Nightmare Moon in the past. Celestia is hanging on, but we don't know for how long. Luna is recovering her strength, now, and needs time to decide on a way to help her sister. Can we count on you to save Celestia when the time is right, and to keep her a secret for now? We fear Luna's reappearance right now could just have her go over the edge."


Then we have Luna explain what she saw in her dreams, how Celestia is basically keeping her own "nightmare form" barely trapped.

Maybe we also suggest how we believe the same Elements of Harmony that first purified Luna of the Nightmare would be the best option... but that means making sure that Twilight recovers as step 1. We know of a way to restore her horn and magic (and Shining's too!), but we can't do it until we're ready to go for Celestia or she might hear and suspect.

That said, I'm not sure Cadance could keep herself from having Twilight and ESPECIALLY Shining healed right now, so maybe we should not mentioned the ritual yet.


In any case, Cadence deeply trusts us, AND we'd have Luna on our side too. Luna, who's OFFICIALLY our boss too.

Luna that EXPLICITLY thinks she's not ready to face and help her sister.

it's not perfect, but... it's far better than any chance we had of getting Cadance more actively on our side thus far.

Among other things, Cadance can get us easy money (expensive gifts. money is no real concern to her), we could start teaching her the lores too (a magic Luna discovered that can help with Celestia), and probably other stuff.

 

[Sveta08]

I understand the want for Cadence to assist and how effective she would be to assist. Bits, royal authority, information, exposure, ect...
But.

If you all feel confident that Cadence will understand and accept hiding Luna as Selene, then I won't argue that. I doubt it will be as easy and smooth and clean as that, but if you feel they can accept that... I can see that stance.
But.


The page will turn eventually. There will come a time that all is revealed to Celestia. Where she figures out what happened, or Velvet end up telling her. Either way, there will be a time it is said.
And while I trust that Selene to do the right thing by her... Having Luna, her sister, Cadence, the one pony that has been uplifted, and Velvet, one of the few confidants she has... All of them being in on hiding Luna, at Luna's request yes, but they are in on it... It feels like a disaster waiting to happen.

That, and the small matter that Cadence is now married to Shining. And Velvet has already gone through the gauntlet of hiding these things from your spouse and came out the other end not recommending it. What sort of wedding gift would it be to provide a secret to Cadence she would have to hide?

Or if she tells Shining, then there are yet more people who know, around Celestia. People who have to hold all these spinning plates. Something Velvet has gotten good at, but that is....

Pardon, I'm rambling.
In short, I know that while Selene does trust Velvet to tell who she feels she needs to, I feel telling Cadence now will introduce more risk than it's worth. Telling her is non-optional I understand. Just.... Maybe not right this moment.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Alright then.

It's a weekday, a lot of people work, and none of us are in a rush. So, we'll do this very calmly.

And this is what I'm gonna do right now.

I'll go back to the last threadmark, answer all the pings from that point onward, and post the answers here.
Then, I'll do a quick update of the voting options to reflect whatever changes need to be made.
After that, I'll post a temp threadmark that will begin our moratorium and voting period.

I'm thinking twenty-four hours of moratorium, and then forty-eight hours of voting. That way, the voting for this phase will close on Thursday night, and we can segway into Velvet's phase closer to friday/weekend, where people will have more time to discuss the more important vote.

Hope you're all doing well. And if there are any questions you have in mind, now is the time to ask as I go over the pings. Just make sure you "@" me and I'll get to it eventually.

 

[Void_510]

OK, so, HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON PLANMAKING

AXE:

YES, obviously.

so Velvet starts at 4-1= 3 actions.

BUREAU

DETECTIVES: either changelings or foreign threats. Probably changelings

CONSTABLES: extra action. we need it too much

COMMISSIONER: I'm leaning Midday Dew, but I'm willing to go for something else.

Click to shrink...

Agreed

FOLLOWERS

Rarity: Commission. we need the money, either now or next turn. Might as well get ahead.

Jade Whistle: Scrying, either for a lvl 5 book (from expedition, and we'll have either Luna or Mareinette do it next turn), or for our manifests if we want to destroy them.

Fluttershy: probably sacrifice for extra AP

Baldomare: Scry for Frangiclave. A MUST:

Mareinette: Either gain bits (potentially by helping Rarity be payed more, or just by GRAILING herself out, I don't care), or an heart lesson with the idea being we'll reach All-4 on turn 20 or 21 (depending on if we have to have her do an expedition next turn, or can afford the Heart Influence instead)

Velvet Axe: Canterlot expedition.

Selene: Training

Household servants: Sacrifice for extra AP with Fluttershy.

Click to shrink...

I can agree with all of this. For Mareinette i would prefer a Heart lesson of course. Jade to scry the manuscripts. As for Fluttershy... Phrasing man, this is cultist simulator. One of the things I see people disagreeing with is the lack of a Guard action, though I'm willing to take the risk for this turn.

Can we agree to the above? IF YES, WE CAN DISCUSS THE DETAILS OF VELVETS NEXT 4-1+1=4 ACTIONS in the NEXT update.

I suppose there's only ONE more thing worth discussing that CAN'T be delayed (remember, delaying the REST of the vote means next time we have it easier, as we only need to talk about specifically Velvet).

Do we want to summon Biedde now?! Because in that case we'll want to also make Reagents and Biedde summons part of THIS vote, I think.

Click to shrink...

I think we should hold off on getting Biedde this turn. Also Velvet gets 5 actions. You took both the follower and Constable options.

we even have the perfect story.

Without going into ALL the details of our occult stuff:

"Cadance, as you can see something happened to Celestia. Something similar to what made Luna Nightmare Moon in the past. Celestia is hanging on, but we don't know for how long. Luna is recovering her strength, now, and needs time to decide on a way to help her sister. Can we count on you to save Celestia when the time is right, and to keep her a secret for now? We fear Luna's reappearance right now could just have her go over the edge."


Then we have Luna explain what she saw in her dreams, how Celestia is basically keeping her own "nightmare form" barely trapped.

Maybe we also suggest how we believe the same Elements of Harmony that first purified Luna of the Nightmare would be the best option... but that means making sure that Twilight recovers as step 1. We know of a way to restore her horn and magic (and Shining's too!), but we can't do it until we're ready to go for Celestia or she might hear and suspect.

That said, I'm not sure Cadance could keep herself from having Twilight and ESPECIALLY Shining healed right now, so maybe we should not mentioned the ritual yet.


In any case, Cadence deeply trusts us, AND we'd have Luna on our side too. Luna, who's OFFICIALLY our boss too.

Luna that EXPLICITLY thinks she's not ready to face and help her sister.

it's not perfect, but... it's far better than any chance we had of getting Cadance more actively on our side thus far.

Among other things, Cadance can get us easy money (expensive gifts. money is no real concern to her), we could start teaching her the lores too (a magic Luna discovered that can help with Celestia), and probably other stuff.

Click to shrink...

We should reach out and draw Cadence into our web.. I mean full confidence at some point. Cadence being aware and cluing in Celestia is one of the only things stopping us from using Forges Redemption as it is. However, Cadences relationship status with us (and info page) have yet to be updated after everything that happened this turn.