With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[moralrelativity]

with not inter-colour

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not -> no

 

[Darko]

with not inter-colour mixing at all

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;with no'

Helps social interactions.

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maybe 'Helps with'

 

[King of Frost]

You know what, thinking about it, it would be interesting if the Tangseid story is leading up to Tangseid becoming this massive horrible villain, and then he somehow gets cured of the "evil serum" or whatever he took, and has to deal with the fallout of every fucked up thing he did.

In the same kinda vein as Superior Spiderman but everything is a million times worse.

 

[Alasnuyo]

The easiest way would be to stick an indigo ring on him.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

4th July 2012
21:34 GMT

The situation in Xan'Xie is tense. The locals move around the caverns quickly, with not inter-colour mixing at all. Armed Manhunters are visible at every thoroughfare, and even without mobile faces I can feel the malice coming from the nearby Whites. Their bodies are.. non-standard. They've shifted to increase their musculature, and several are wearing decorations that.. aren't quite the red circle of the Hyperclan, but are certainly reminiscent of it.

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Oh, that's a worry. This sounds like it's one 'Rodney King' incident away from an explosion. And the problem is, you can't tell who's itching to throw the first punch more...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

John Stewart looks around.

"Are things usually this bad?"

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You're the Sector Lantern, you tell us. There aren't that many populated worlds in 2814, after all. Or have you been too busy on Earth?

"This city is generally considered pretty racist, but I haven't been here before. Prince J'emm implied that things had gotten worse recently, but I can't personally confirm that."

"This place is one wrong word away from a full blown riot."

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So, it's basically the deep south in the fifties. Complete with it's own gangs of Klansmen and Black Panthers, so to speak.

"One wrong thought."

He frowns for a second, then nods. "I guess I should thank you for calling me in."

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Well, it is your job to keep things from getting too crazy. I know the racial thing is an 'internal political matter', as the Guardians no doubt class it, but it behooves you to prevent a planet-wide race war that would likely wipe them out... Especially if the Hate Plague or whatever it was from the Comics that did the Martians in gets let loose...

"That's really more something I did because I can't spend the time here that I'd need to. But it-."

"My Sector, my problem. I know." He looks around again. "And this really all happened because of that mission-?"

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Small pebbles can create big avalanches, man. And never underestimate people's reactions to news they don't like.

"How good is your telepath blocking?"

"Good. Not great." He points to the back of his neck with his right hand. "But I picked this up on Ogoro. Telepath disruptor. Just in case."

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Just one problem. The locals are telepathic. Going to be a bit hard to communicate with them if they can't sense your mind. That'd be a sure sign of distrust...

"Nice to see someone talking his personal protective equipment so seriously. But if things turn nasty here, you might want-"

I tap his cuirass with the knuckle of my right index finger.

"-something a little tougher than that."

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Do you want him coming in here dressed like a tank, OL? Because that'd probably be more inflammatory than light armour.

He shakes his head. "Lighter armour makes me look less intimidating. Helps social interactions. If I was coming into an actual war zone I'd agree with you, but we're trying to negotiate."

"With telepaths who aren't used to human facial expression."

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And, as I said, can't feel your mind, because of that disruptor. And it wouldn't be safe to run it in any kind of remote defensive mode, because a psychic attack could do a lot of damage before it kicked in. Just consider how long it took Psimon to mess with the Team's heads...

"Then they'll hear what I think-."

"No. Because…" I start to point at my neck, then point at his.

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See? Even OL agrees. Maybe you need to learn some purely mental techniques, Stewart? As A Greenie, you've already got a step up on holding your thoughts firm.

He looks away awkwardly. "It's not a hundred percent effective. Are we supposed to be meeting someone-?"

A lot of Whites converge on one of the entrances. Civilian Greens stream away in all directions while the Manhunters hold their ground.

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Sounds like there's a bug up their bums about something. An arrest they don't agree with, maybe?

"Uh-oh. This our guy?"

I take a look at the desires of the group.

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And who or what are they looking for, hmm? Suitable recruits?

"Those are Martians who have the desires I'm looking for. Combined with the Hyperclan emblem they're narrowly not wearing, I'm pretty sure that he's in there. But they're shapeshifters and I've never met him before, so I can't swear to it."

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Or are they seeking... Karmang, was it? I don't think he'd be too friendly towards a Green lantern, 'toady of the Guardians' that he is...

The Whites try to enter the cavern in a mass. The Manhunters move to stop them. The Whites stop advancing, but they don't retreat an inch either. I can't hear it, but I rather imagine that the Manhunters are trying to give them orders to that effect. It's a weird silent film version of deliberate provocation chicken, and even knowing how serious it is it still seems a little ridiculous. Other than the body structure alterations there isn't even any body language to read. They're just floating there next to each other.

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Lots of 'Move along' and 'It's a free cavern, why should I move?' going back and forth, I'll bet. And the inevitable bystanders doing the equivalent of filming on their phones.

"John, you're up."

"You don't wanna take the lead?"

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OL's better placed to cover bystanders in trouble breaks out, which it likely will.

"You're the senior Sector Lantern."

"Gee. Thanks."

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Delegation. You expect an Illustres to deal with this? He's got bigger worries.

He flies upwards towards the pending confrontation. Not his first time defusing this sort of confrontation; he was trained by Katma Tui on Korugar when it was trying to decide how to govern itself in the post-Sinestro era, and that was anything but peaceful. I-.

"Excuse me? You're… Orange Lantern, right?"

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So he's got some experience with making peace between two hostile parties. Who are likely to join ranks against him too.

I turn around to see a White Martian who has adopted the humanish appearance well enough for me to see that they're nervous. Or at least, mimicking the outwards appearance of humanoid nervousness.

"One of several hundred, yes."

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That's not what he meant, OL. And looking human? I wonder if he's a fan of...

"Yeah, but, the one who M-. Who comes from Earth?"

"Was that cut off sentence 'who Mister J'aarkn met'?"

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Oh my. Do we have something of a Xenophile here?

"Um." The Martian awkwardly rubs his hands together. "Yeah?"

"I met him, certainly. And I'm aware of the memories he's been sharing, and while I'm sure that you're perfectly capable of assuming attractive shapes, that's not why I'm here."

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You're saying that because you can see the kid's desires, can't you, OL? Or does the lad (lass?) think humans make interplanetary booty calls?

"Ah. I hadn't-. Uh. R-? Really? Because. No no no, just forget I… Um."

"What was it you wanted?"

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Yeah, enough messing with them, OL. Play it straight, will ya?

"Is there going to be a fight? Because I don't want to be here, but they're closing the exits."

I look around… Darn it.

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Aw, hell, shit's gonna go off, isn't it?

"If it comes to it, I'll shield any bystanders. But we're trying to avoid having a fight break out."

"I don't just mean this cavern. When Mel'dilo'rn got rid of the Neapolitan laws I wanted to move there, but the Prelate brought in travel restrictions. We've got even less freedom now than when the changes started."

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Heh, that's a good name for them. Neopolitan, because the three colours shall never mix. And it sounds like the local leaders are doubling down on the stupid.

"Are there a lot of people who want to get out before things blow up?"

"Is that an option?"

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Well, that depends. How do you feel about military service?

"I'm here to hire some people for work off planet. I mostly need skilled telepaths or people with military experience, but if you don't mind learning then I can make use of you."

"I'd.. love to get better at telepathy. We only get basic education here. I know that's not the case in other cities…"

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And that's why M'Gann was so powerful but so sloppy... The Reds and Greens never bothered to learn just how strong Whites can be, did they?

We have a few telepaths in L.E.G.I.O.N., and… One, in the Orange Lantern Corps. On the other hand, I could just hire Mr. King to train them up. I doubt that he'd mind taking time away from Earth.

"If you had existing skills in that area, I'd recruit you at once. As you don't, I'm afraid any offer will have to wait until-"

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Too much outlay for too small a profit, OL? But you never know if you'll find the next M'Gann amongst them...

I feel it as John activates his ring, and look up to see him sticking a construct barrier between the belligerent parties.

"-after I've spoken to your Prelate. Excuse me."

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Okay, things are getting hot, I see. Let's hope things don't explode too soon... The chapter's not over yet!

I fly upwards, a somewhat fixed smile on my face. I know it's useless for exactly the same reason I gave John, and I'm doing it for the same reason he did. I never claimed to be perfectly rational.

"Lantern Stewart. Problem?"

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Can't say OL doesn't stand by his own hypocrisy, can you? The joy of Emotion-fueled clarketech...

The Manhunters draw their guns and point them at one of the Whites, who doesn't outwardly react.

"No. No problems. But we might wanna change of venue."

"Not a problem. We can all fly. Why not have our meeting right here?"

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Bet that White is mentally yelling 'Aw, hell, naw!' or 'See the oppression inherent in the system? See?' Might want to move the groups a little further away from the civilians, though. Don't want anyone catching a stray blast...

Oh, boy... Mars is about to catch fire, isn't it? The fire of racial intolerance and injustice. And this might well be the spark that sets it alight... Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like the comics Mars did...

 

[Darko]

You're the Sector Lantern, you tell us. There aren't that many populated worlds in 3814, after all. Or have you been too busy on Earth?

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Earth is practically an entire sectors worth of trouble sometimes.

And it's 2814.

Or are they seeking... Karmang, was it? I don't think he'd be too friendly towards a Green lantern, 'toady of the Guardians' that he is...

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He actually seemed pretty okay with them in the renegade side.

He didn't like the whole race divide, but he may have been thankful that they got rid of their violent personality traits that were destroying their planet.

Oh my. Do we have something of a Xenophile here?

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Well M'gann may not be the only one.

 

[Mr Zoat]

not -> no

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Thank you, corrected.

maybe 'Helps with'

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That's a vocabulary thing, and I don't think that we've heard John speaking enough to call one way of phrasing it right or wrong.

 

[Vaermina]

You know what, thinking about it, it would be interesting if the Tangseid story is leading up to Tangseid becoming this massive horrible villain, and then he somehow gets cured of the "evil serum" or whatever he took, and has to deal with the fallout of every fucked up thing he did.

In the same kinda vein as Superior Spiderman but everything is a million times worse.

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Would normal Paul be bothered by it? Or would he just shrug and decide it was too late to change things so just keep doing what he was doing ala Lord Protector?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

You know what, thinking about it, it would be interesting if the Tangseid story is leading up to Tangseid becoming this massive horrible villain, and then he somehow gets cured of the "evil serum" or whatever he took, and has to deal with the fallout of every fucked up thing he did.

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I mean everyone would still have their desires set to serve paul without an easy way to turn them back to normal, don't tell me that if I dropped you into a pure dark desire wish fulfilment you wouldn't be at least tempted to keep it?

It kinda reminds me of that bit of Overlord where Suzuki tries to give the maids holidays but they protest the decision because their thought process means that they genuinely desire nothing more than to serve Ainz Ooal Gown.

 

[DrThoth]

We have a few telepaths in L.E.G.I.O.N., and… One, in the Orange Lantern Corps. On the other hand, I could just hire Mr. King to train them up. I doubt that he'd mind taking time away from Earth.

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I know things are strained between them, but Captain Comet could be a useful training asset in this regard, and Vega isn't a bad place for an Orange Lantern base. Especially if Paragon wanted to keep a closer eye on the region.

Do Red Martians possess an innate psychological sense of superiority to the other races? It could explain part of their reticence in adapting to the truth about their origins (though it makes perfect sense for mundane reasons too; millennia of static tradition is hard to erase).

I wonder if there's any chance of people in the Paragon timeline developing a way to safely undo Guardian programming. I don't think Karmang knew how to, but I could have forgotten.

 

[Stsword]

I wonder if there's any chance of people in the Paragon timeline developing a way to safely undo Guardian programming.

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Burning Martians reproduced by mass murder.

On a scale from 1 to "Hey let's turn the shark from Jaws into a flying cyborg sharkjet," that's still on the "How fucking high are you?" on the not safe things to do.

 

[Doccer]

Huh. You'd think they'd be happy to let the Whites be somebody else's problem.

 

[Chaoswind]

Huh. You'd think they'd be happy to let the Whites be somebody else's problem.

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Who is going to clean their toilets then?

 

[Stsword]

Who is going to clean their toilets then?

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They use organic technology. The toilets groom themselves of course.

 

[Darko]

I mean everyone would still have their desires set to serve paul without an easy way to turn them back to normal, don't tell me that if I dropped you into a pure dark desire wish fulfilment you wouldn't be at least tempted to keep it?

It kinda reminds me of that bit of Overlord where Suzuki tries to give the maids holidays but they protest the decision because their thought process means that they genuinely desire nothing more than to serve Ainz Ooal Gown.

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If he's cured of his evil then maybe he can reverse it himself as a attempt at redemption.

Ot if say paragon defeats him then he can reverse the changes to people.

Huh. You'd think they'd be happy to let the Whites be somebody else's problem.

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Trying to reason with racist bigots is not exactly an easy task.

 

[Rafin]

When Mel'dilo'rn got rid of the Neapolitan laws I wanted to move

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Am I right to assume that, just as Whites are streaming into that city, there's a wave of Greens and Reds moving out due to "falling property values"?

Also, why are those laws called "Neapolitan"?


Beyond that, I have a hard time remembering what happened in the Paragon timeline with regards to Mars and how and how much it differs from the Renegade one. Can someone give me a summary and/or link me to the relevant chapters?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Am I right to assume that, just as Whites are streaming into that city, there's a wave of Greens and Reds moving out due to "falling property values"?

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Not really. The whole 'settling the surface' thing is reducing property values anyway.

Also, why are those laws called "Neapolitan"?

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Heh, that's a good name for them. Neopolitan, because the three colours shall never mix.

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Beyond that, I have a hard time remembering what happened in the Paragon timeline with regards to Mars and how and how much it differs from the Renegade one. Can someone give me a summary and/or link me to the relevant chapters?

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The SI informed J'emm of the true origin of modern Martians as well as showing him the mission telepathically. That information caused him to agree that apartide had to end and to promise to get the other Reds to go along with it. The SI left him to it, but told him that he would release the information eventually. In the Renegade timeline, M'gann released the information and caused a civil war.

 

[WereDragon]

You know what, thinking about it, it would be interesting if the Tangseid story is leading up to Tangseid becoming this massive horrible villain, and then he somehow gets cured of the "evil serum" or whatever he took, and has to deal with the fallout of every fucked up thing he did.

In the same kinda vein as Superior Spiderman but everything is a million times worse.

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What fallout? Everyone is happy. Everyone is working together harmoniously for a better future. He might feel bad about having done the things he did, however for practical purposes he has already reached the point where the 'ends' parts of 'ends justify the means' has already arrived.

He would hopefully stop being a self-indulgent (mind-)raping arsehole but I doubt his overall methods would change.

 

[Pez]

He would hopefully stop being a self-indulgent (mind-)raping arsehole but I doubt his overall methods would change.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Arsehole? Don't be judging. We don't know exactly what he's done, but I assume he's just shifted around and modified some desires. Some could argue that he's liberated them.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Arsehole? Don't be judging. We don't know exactly what he's done, but I assume he's just shifted around and modified some desires. Some could argue that he's liberated them.

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Administrator Breen, for example.

 

[Darko]

What fallout? Everyone is happy. Everyone is working together harmoniously for a better future. He might feel bad about having done the things he did, however for practical purposes he has already reached the point where the 'ends' parts of 'ends justify the means' has already arrived.

He would hopefully stop being a self-indulgent (mind-)raping arsehole but I doubt his overall methods would change.

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He may decide to not mind control people ever again if he's returned to his pre evil personality.

Kinda like someone deciding to not engage in violence since they hurt someone.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa... Arsehole? Don't be judging. We don't know exactly what he's done, but I assume he's just shifted around and modified some desires. Some could argue that he's liberated them.

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We know he essentially destroyed Wonder Womans personality and made her a sex slave, in case you forgot.

So yes, calling him an asshole is a fairly accurate description of his character.

And that whole liberated thing you mentioned just makes me think of white colonialists stating that by enslaving black people and taking them away from their homes they'll be liberating them from their savagery.

 

[Pez]

Administrator Breen, for example.

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Different strokes!

We know he essentially destroyed Wonder Womans personality and made her a sex slave, in case you forgot.

So yes, calling him an asshole is a fairly accurate description of his character.

And that whole liberated thing you mentioned just makes me think of white colonialists stating that by enslaving black people and taking them away from their homes they'll be liberating them from their savagery.

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That's a bit unfair. We rehab prisoners of their criminal ways, this version of Paul just rehabs women of their repressed sexuality towards him. And who hasn't wanted to make WW their sex slave?

---

All kidding aside (this is QQ, we're still allowed to have a sense of humor here, thank the gods), there's a good parallel between Tangseid and Paul's Leonard Snart, I think, assuming, of course, that this serum did change his brain (or thinking) in some way that his Ring can't detect. Cold's just not capable of caring, anymore, and it looks like Paul would be like that if not for his exposure to the Orange Light. It seems now he's just going to desire, and not worry about pesky little things like morality so much.

 

[Darko]

Different strokes!



That's a bit unfair. We rehab prisoners of their criminal ways, this version of Paul just rehabs women of their repressed sexuality towards him. And who hasn't wanted to make WW their sex slave?

---

All kidding aside (this is QQ, we're still allowed to have a sense of humor here, thank the gods), there's a good parallel between Tangseid and Paul's Leonard Snart, I think, assuming, of course, that this serum did change his brain (or thinking) in some way that his Ring can't detect. Cold's just not capable of caring, anymore, and it looks like Paul would be like that if not for his exposure to the Orange Light. It seems now he's just going to desire, and not worry about pesky little things like morality so much.

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I know you're joking but it really isn't unfair to compare Tangseid to one of those slavers.

And rehab is used to make people drop harmful habits.

What Tangseid is doing is more similar to a gay conversion camp, in that he basically tortures and brainwashes people into being sexually attracted to someone they are highly likely to reject.

 

[Mr Zoat]

What Tangseid is doing is more similar to a gay conversion camp, in that he basically tortures and brainwashes people into being sexually attracted to someone they are highly likely to reject.

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I don't understand where you're getting this from. He wiped Wonder Woman's personality as the most rational way to realise his changes, then decided that he might as well give her a convenient personality afterwards. There hasn't been any mention of him doing anything quite like that to anyone else.

 

[Darko]

I don't understand where you're getting this from. He wiped Wonder Woman's personality as the most rational way to realise his changes, then decided that he might as well give her a convenient personality afterwards. There hasn't been any mention of him doing anything quite like that to anyone else.

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Fine, he tortured and brainwashed a person into being sexually attracted to someone they would be highly likely to reject.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Fine, he tortured and brainwashed a person into being sexually attracted to someone they would be highly likely to reject.

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I'd argue 'tortured', on the grounds that he wasn't inflicting pain with the goal of getting something or for personal enjoyment. The process was unpleasant, but that's because it was an unpleasant process.

 

[Darko]

I'd argue 'tortured', on the grounds that he wasn't inflicting pain with the goal of getting something or for personal enjoyment. The process was unpleasant, but that's because it was an unpleasant process.

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And I'd argue that getting his goals realised by brainwashing her and getting her out of the way falls under the category of 'getting something', and I also bet he found some enjoyment in getting rid of what he saw as a roadblock to his goals, so it kinda still is torture.

 

[Pez]

I'd argue 'tortured', on the grounds that he wasn't inflicting pain with the goal of getting something or for personal enjoyment. The process was unpleasant, but that's because it was an unpleasant process.

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All the pleasantness came afterwards. Giggity.

 

[Doccer]

I'd argue 'tortured', on the grounds that he wasn't inflicting pain with the goal of getting something or for personal enjoyment. The process was unpleasant, but that's because it was an unpleasant process.

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You did say she was bound to the orange light battery for sometime by her own lasso. Not only would that be reminiscent of Heracles did to her mother which would be a horrible call back, but knowing that her true mind was slipping away, a slow painful death of her ego and id, (or whatever the personality would be called), I'd say that was quite a torturous experience that Paul inflicted upon her. The way he phrased the act he did have every intent or altering her mind to one he'd prefer. One that wouldn't fight him. One that agree with him. And apparently one that is fine with him slapping her ass or coping a feel at the least. And giving what her people constantly told her of men I imagine becoming that kind of woman or allowing her body to be mistreated in such a way was certainly a fear of hers. If she was still around I am sure she'd argue the description of torture with you.
Further more torture is torture. If you had ever been tortured I am sure your torturers informing you that they've no pleasure from this wouldn't really matter to you. They are still the ones doing this to you.

 

[DrThoth]

I don't understand where you're getting this from. He wiped Wonder Woman's personality as the most rational way to realise his changes, then decided that he might as well give her a convenient personality afterwards. There hasn't been any mention of him doing anything quite like that to anyone else.

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I assumed he did something similar to Circe, given her uncharacteristic blushing subservience to him.