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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Moving the whites to another planet looks good on paper, but the catch is that the ones who didn't leave due to having non-white friends or family would become even more of a minority than before and suffer backlash.
 
BlueMangoAdea said:
Ah, an interesting solution. If the local Red Martian government wouldn't grant White Martians equality, just move all the willing White Martians to a new planet so that they can make their own government. I wonder what the Hyperclan would think of that.
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He's probably not going to find very many willing given the standard Martian psychology.
 
BlueMangoAdea said:
Ah, an interesting solution. If the local Red Martian government wouldn't grant White Martians equality, just move all the willing White Martians to a new planet so that they can make their own government. I wonder what the Hyperclan would think of that.
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or move red leaders and green rascists instead. better neighbors on earth his way.
 
Here's the thing Paul forgot : Mars is not Earth.

People cannot asspull in a few short months/years a complete magical system just because, the moment somebody that's not read would use magic it should be a warning at least for OL that somebody is teaching magic.

I mean I can understand not noticing it, I mean after the insanity of Earth it might be easy to forget that Mars is not Earth, but still.
 
So this 'leader' won't let the White Martians leave, but won't even consider the idea the Whites are not serf-types. So she basically wants slaves and for them to accept that.

I'm curious what Martian Manhunter would think of this bitch. She could probably hear of all J'onn's accomplishments and talents and still demand he prostrate himself in front of her like she has the Green Martians do.
 
Mr Zoat said:
4th July 2012
21:59 GMT

"No."

"You may want to reconsider that."
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Heh, this is usually what most of OL's arguments inevitably come down to, at their hearts.

Unlike my relatively intimate meeting in Prelate J'emm's office, Prelate P'thet's… Throne room is an expansive affair. Our Green Manhunter escort handed us over to armed Reds in the antechamber with a bizarre degree of grovelling, and as far as I can tell those Reds are part of the Prelate's all-Red bodyguard. The Red heads of the local Manhunter force stand in attendance, while a cross section of their Green subordinates kneel behind them with their hands on the floor in ritual supplication. And it's not just the Manhunters; the theme repeats itself amongst the civil servants and priests. At least, I assume that the Greens with the magic users are priests: their clothing is different enough that they might just be vergers or something.
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P'thet, huh? More like 'Pathetic', am I right? :p I assume all the pomp and ceremony is intended to awe 'lesser' personages into 'proper respect'...

The Prelate herself looks almost identical to every other Martian I've seen. Some ornamentation with what my rune stone says are enchanted accoutrements, but there's nothing particularly unique about the default Martian physique she's using. Whatever it does, it's not blocking my empathic vision. Unlike Mr. B'lanx she's not in this for herself, but rather to maintain a system of order that she regards as the divinely revealed correct way to live. A genuine believer in noblesse oblige, and in the natural inferiority of those she's obliged to. In the American context, she wouldn't set fire to a cross on a White Martian's lawn, but she wouldn't want them to be able to get golf club membership.
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:confused: Oh, gods, that's the worst kind. They honestly think they're being helpful... And: 'Divinely Revealed'? She's the ultra-conservative religious type too? This is going to be flat-out impossible.

"After all, as I understand it, your office only grants you the authority to restrict your citizens from migrating to other Martian cities."

The composition of the attendants just shouts that they have a highly racially stratified society, and that the entire power structure depends on it. There's not a single White here, nor anywhere else in the building. The Greens are permanently genuflecting, and not only are the Reds the only ones allowed to speak the Greens are literally just here to take up room behind their hereditary overlords. And they're fine with it. As far as I can see, they consider this an honour.
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Ugh, every one of them is... I know it's not their fault they were raised this way, but seriously.

"That is merely a specifically enumerated power. I also have a wide variety of powers which I may exercise in order to preserve civil order."

Fucking emergency laws. I hate those blasted things. I've heard it said that hard cases make bad law, but my personal belief is that a law should be able to handle unusual situations. If it can't, it's a bad law and should be improved, not entirely bypassed by giving supreme executive authority to someone. At least not during peace time.
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Great, Racist, religious and she knows the law inside out. Just the sort to almost literally hit people over the head with The Law and completely missing the inferno for the smoke...

"And you believe that preventing violent political radicals from leaving improves civil order?"

"Letting them go is an admission of defeat, of the acceptability of slights against the divine order. I will not sacrifice the future perfection of our civilisation to make a short term accommodation with a disruptive element."
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Okay... OL, maybe this time, you need to try working around the standing authorities? Honestly, I doubt this witch would be capable of understanding that isn't written in her sacred texts...

"I… Shared a particular memory with Prelate J'emm last year. I was rather under the impression that he'd shared it in turn with his fellow prelates. Have you seen it?"

"Yes. But it is irrelevant. The 'Guardians'-" She looks… I'm guessing 'coldly', but Martian faces aren't all that expressive, at John. "-did not create order here after they left. Karmang the Good did, and this is the order which he decreed. The reasons he had for doing so are irrelevant, as is the origin of the groups for which he decreed it."
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o_O ...Now I really want Karmang to make an appearance and set her straight. But of course she wouldn't believe it, because he's White.

Ah. Blind faith. J'emm was willing to change things because he only kept it going due to the fact that it was tradition. Once he found out the true origin of the three colours he considered it rationally and realised that it was irrelevant. But P'thet has Word of Karmang, and is not at home to reason. Unless Karmang him or herself turns up in person-.

"I'm afraid that Martian records being telepathic has rather precluded me from learning about Karmang. Are they a god, or merely an enlightened Martian?"
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Because in the former, he can probably go track them down in whatever heavenly realm they dwell in and ask him to come sort things out. The latter merely makes matters quite a bit trickier.

"Karmang the Good was the greatest teacher and builder of our earliest history. He established our first cities and temples and taught the basics of agriculture and magic to our most distant forebears. He created our civilisation and ordained it's proper order. We do not consider him to be… Something separate from Martians, but he is our most revered antecedent."

"Are you still in contact with him?"
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Heh. I wouldn't pout it past some ancient Martian Magus to have discovered an immortality elixir, but alas, no... Of course, on the timescales we're looking at here, that would be like asking a modern Arab if he's ever met Gilgamesh.

"No. To the best of my knowledge he is long dead. Martians live longer than humans, but not forever."

"But you have access to magic. Don't you have necromancers?"
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...Heh. To be fair, that's a logical option. :sneaky: Too bad, as we know, Karmang isn't dead.

"No."

"Because I know some necromancers? I mean, if Karmang's final word is that the White Martians should submit to your rule there's really nowhere for me to go, but it seems to me that the highest authority on what Karmang wanted is Karmang himself."
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And she would probably still oppose it, on the principle that the Law is the Law. Man, what's John thinking right now? "Oh, not this again..." :D

"This is not a matter in which there is any confusion. All of Mars agrees that all of Karmang's disciples were Red, as were those he anointed primates and prelates. Even if I knew a way to communicate with his spirit directly, I would not trouble him over an issue like this."

Interesting. Z'üm saw talking to someone called Karmang, and all of the Hyperclan members I met had Z'orr in place of their family name. They clearly had access to magic…
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Yes, suspicious, isn't it? Oh, man, is his face going to be red when he learns the truth.

"And just to confirm: amongst Martians, magic is an unbroken secret amongst the Red priesthood? I understand that some cities are more liberal about such things than yours."

"Primate?"
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And a logical angle to check. Likely to piss her off at the mere thought, but...

The leader of the clerical delegation genuflects to the throne, then rises to face me.

"The energy manipulated by the arcane arts is theoretically available to anyone. But even in the most divergent temples, no Martian who is not Red has ever been taught, nor copied the style of magic taught there."
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Ah, but our White mage is the one who taught them, isn't he? Not that they know that...

"And you have no records of either Green or White Martians becoming notable magic users outside of your tradition?"

"No. Those Whites who identify themselves as the Hyperclan are augmented by magic, but none have any skill with magic themselves. Once the Rite of Ending is performed they either die or are restored to their original form."
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...Rite of Ending... Boy, that doesn't sound ominous or anything. Guessing something designed to break any ongoing magical effects, no matter how vital...

"So it's either a Red or an alien that's doing it."

"If… Forced to speculate, I would imagine that it was most likely a White who had developed a magic tradition independently."
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That would be a lifetime's work, wouldn't it? Working things out from first principles? Could any Martian have managed that without getting on someone's radar? Yet more big, stinky clues that there's something rotten on the red planet.

"Is that..? Is that heretical? I mean, they wouldn't be using the tradition Karmang taught the Reds…"

"Yes, it's heretical. The tradition Karmang taught is the only tradition with fits within the social system which he laid out for us to live by."
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Because of course it is. :rolleyes: Does she wipe her arse in the one way prescribed in Karmang's traditions? What if she discovered someone wiping in a different way? Would she declare them a heretic? :confused: Am I overextending this metaphor? Quite likely! :p

"Do the other cities see it the same way?"

"If they do not, they hide it well."
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If they have to interact with her, I'm not surprised they would. I bet her mental 'voice' is the equivalent of a shrill shriek when she gets going.

I nod, and smile at the Prelate.

"Thank you both for the information. I feel obliged to inform you that I will be requesting clarification from the Planetary Council on whether you actually have the authority to do what you're doing, and given the general opinion on the subject amongst your fellow Prelates I fully expect them to say that you don't."
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Yeah, I would bet she is not popular. And if she manages to ruin it for the rest of them, I suspect she would not be facing a pleasant future. Or a long one...

I bow.

"Thank you for speaking with me. I'll show myself out."
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Good. I bet he's glad to be on his way, after that frosty reception...

Without waiting for a formal dismissal I turn and fly away, back towards the main doors. The entire ruling elite, and not one that I could see had a contrary opinion. And not 'they had them, but were keeping quiet for reasons of self preservation. They've all drunken the kool aid, the White enemy within keeping them together in the face of the opposition of anyone with any sense.

I wonder if the Controllers do have a spare planet I can borrow?
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To transport the Whites and their allies to, or do drag these ostriches away to be dumped? Because I'm not sure which would improve matters more... No, wait, yes I am. :sneaky: Guess which I'd prefer.

:mad: The most obstructive of obstructive bureaucrats... And all the worse because they think they're doing the right thing. My god, these people need some sense slapped into them, preferably with a flaming Clue-by-Four. And now I hope Karmang turns up to do it, just for the sight of them squealing that, "But... But... He's WHITE!"
 
Flightless Man said:
or move red leaders and green rascists instead. better neighbors on earth his way.
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They probably wouldn't want to leave.

Cuchulin said:
Only problem is I don't think he is dead.
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Nope, he's still alive.

webxro said:
Here's the thing Paul forgot : Mars is not Earth.

People cannot asspull in a few short months/years a complete magical system just because, the moment somebody that's not read would use magic it should be a warning at least for OL that somebody is teaching magic.

I mean I can understand not noticing it, I mean after the insanity of Earth it might be easy to forget that Mars is not Earth, but still.
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Just because Earth is the craziest planet in the universe that doesn't mean other planets can't be crazy.

Plus Martians can live for centuries, so one of them making a new magic system in a few decades is not that weird.

hance1986 said:
I'm curious what Martian Manhunter would think of this bitch.
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He'll probably be disappointed that this type of behavior exists among his people.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Ugh, every one of them is... I know it's not their fault they were raised this way, but seriously.
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This is just one of the things that happens if racism exists.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Great, Racist, religious and she knows the law inside out. Just the sort to almost literally hit people over the head with The Law and completely missing the inferno for the smoke...
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I'm reminded of that guy from TTS who says 'I am the Law' all the time.

Chojin Patriarch said:
o_O ...Now I really want Karmang to make an appearance and set her straight. But of course she wouldn't believe it, because he's White.
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She may think that he's just a White that figured out magic.

And I'm betting some of the Hyperclan may also think that about Karmang, he's just some magical White who thinks he's Karmang, but they're playing along with it because he gives them powers.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Because in the former, he can probably go track them down in whatever heavenly realm they dwell in and ask him to come sort things out. The latter merely makes matters quite a bit trickier.
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Assuming the Martians in this universe have gods or an afterlife.

In the episode in which Karmang showed up it was mentioned that one of his disciples was H'ronmeer, who is a god in most other works.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh. I wouldn't pout it past some ancient Martian Magus to have discovered an immortality elixir, but alas, no... Of course, on the timescales we're looking at here, that would be like asking a modern Arab if he's ever met Gilgamesh.
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Karmang did discover a way to increase his life, by essentially hibernating.

Chojin Patriarch said:
...Rite of Ending... Boy, that doesn't sound ominous or anything. Guessing something designed to break any ongoing magical effects, no matter how vital...
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By bet is that it is some kind of spell meant to get rid of the magic in them.

Plus seeing as the Hyperclan is one of the most violent groups they probably have hurt a lot of innocent people, so them being given a death sentence would probably not even be that unusual in even the most liberal cities.

Chojin Patriarch said:
That would be a lifetime's work, wouldn't it? Working things out from first principles? Could any Martian have managed that without getting on someone's radar? Yet more big, stinky clues that there's something rotten on the red planet.
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If they had a talent for magic, then maybe.
 
Darko said:
They probably wouldn't want to leave.
.
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No they wouldn't. But OL already terraformed mars, basically claiming it as an OL corp protectorate. if the Red leaders and Green rascists want to oppose eqality, choose your side in the war and move the assholes to some out of they way world. By force when nescesary. I would rather have a world of none bigots who owe me a few favors then leave the rascists in charge and hating me and anything i represent. I wouldn't have involved myself in the manner paul already has. I really wouldn't want MArs inviting the reach to move in to spite me while im fighting on the reach front.

(What i would have done when i first gained knowledge of burners)
.i would have created hundreds of fake ancient monoloths and inscribed them with martian history with M'gann's aid. hide most on the surface and a few near some cities below ground. Release information to everyone that i unsealed/uncovered monoliths of ancient history, starting mass pilgrimmage. all the colors go on pilgrimage looking for answers and find them if they have the drive. I would even have some kind of bigot detecter that kills anyone looking to use the knowledge for power over others.) If i'm in a comic world i'm going for a creative answer not something that might work in real life. Basically busy work for the martians who are most extreme on each side.


(what i would do in current situation)
being in the middle of a reach war, i would settle this as fast as i could. since this is the situation, i don't want to be pulled between two fronts if mars goes hostile while i'm gone or a reach front opens while on mars. I would be very close to using empath vision to remove asshole reds who are in power and green manhunters who are onboard with staus quo. As fast as i can, world wide remove who i can in a single hour, going FTL. Once i have all i can grab, bring them to some world for forced isolation/ or maybe put them all on a ship with no navigation and send them to the guardians to deal with.

Darko said:
Assuming the Martians in this universe have gods or an afterlife.

In the episode in which Karmang showed up it was mentioned that one of his disciples was H'ronmeer, who is a god in most other works.
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Doesn't Paul have to spread Hellenism to worlds with no gods/after lives?
 
Darko said:
He built a temple for Hades on one alien planet in the hopes that it will bring the ghosts of that planet to Erebus, but so far we haven't been shown if it works.
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It was on mother of mercy planet.
It's been mentioned Hades has been busy with work.
Paul asked Mother of Mercy how she feels without the restless ghost haunting her planet and she mentioned she feels better and described as feeling less heavier, but not in a literal sense.

Paul has spoken about building other Temples in other planets, but we have no evidence he has done so in any other besides Mother of Mercy.
 
Paragon mentioned Dream as his Martian form Lord L'Zoril a few episodes back, but I don't think M'gann or J'onn noticeably reacted to the news. At this point I'd assume he should have a breakdown of Martian religious beliefs. Hopefully there isn't a god of Red supremacy created from the widespread cultural belief in the concept in a high-magic environment for millennia, but if there was that could be a fun fight.

I wonder what the circumstances were behind the original covenant between the eyeball deity and the ancestors of Lantern Coutara's homeworld- I don't think we're going to be revisiting that in the story.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Fucking emergency laws. I hate those blasted things. I've heard it said that hard cases make bad law, but my personal belief is that a law should be able to handle unusual situations. If it can't, it's a bad law and should be improved, not entirely bypassed by giving supreme executive authority to someone. At least not during peace time.
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Oh so now war is 'special'. Strangely he has expressed the opposite view on every other occasion.
 
Chaoswind said:
It was on mother of mercy planet.
It's been mentioned Hades has been busy with work.
Paul asked Mother of Mercy how she feels without the restless ghost haunting her planet and she mentioned she feels better and described as feeling less heavier, but not in a literal sense.

Paul has spoken about building other Temples in other planets, but we have no evidence he has done so in any other besides Mother of Mercy.
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He didn't build a temple on Mother of Mercy.

He just put a Dolmen Gate there and had the ghosts enter Erebus.

During the Jiggity Jig episode he asked some Karnans if he could build a temple on their world and later on he did it.
 
Mr Zoat said:
And if anyone just gets a civilian job on Maltus, the duration is whatever their contract says it is.
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I wonder if anyone involved realizes what a ridiculously huge opportunity this is. I mean we're talking about Maltus, bastion of one of the highest tech civilizations in the universe. And the chance for tech transfer is even greater because as telepaths, Martians can lean on the locals for the mental context needed.
 
After all the time in Sheeda land, I can see this Paragon viewing of Mars being 85% set here and finished in a Grayven arc where him and Artemis conquer Mars.this is leading to what i hope is mars' religious beliefs and/or gods coming into play beyond Karmang. And God battles always feel better with a Grayven PoV
 
Well discovered something.

It turns out that post flashpoint, Vril isn't an only child.

He has a sister, Techne, leader of the Coluan Resistance, which is oddly reminiscent of the Guardians of the Galaxy. It includes a foul mouthed bunny rabbit who owns a ship.
 
Stsword said:
Well discovered something.

It turns out that post flashpoint, Vril isn't an only child.

He has a sister, Techne, leader of the Coluan Resistance, which is oddly reminiscent of the Guardians of the Galaxy. It includes a foul mouthed bunny rabbit who owns a ship.
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Post flashpoint, aka New 52? The only good thing to come out of New 52 is Superman's cat.
 
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