Vaermina
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Someone seems to have forgotten that Zeus's domain is "King of the Gods".
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Coda
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This reminds me of an idea I read a long time ago, but I can't find it now. (I think it was on the Order of the Stick forums but I'm not sure.)
The idea is that clerics of the god of death developed a new business model. They would give their client a potion that would kill them painlessly, and then cast Graceful Repose on the corpse. The soul of the newly-deceased would go to the death god's afterlife in a specially prepared paradise of comfort and relaxation while the cleric would have the preserved corpse shipped along with other bulk goods to the client's desired destination, upon which time a cleric (possibly the same one, possibly another cleric of the same god) would cast Revivify and the client would be brought back to life. The client would have therefore had a luxury vacation without needing to worry about food, water, sleep, weather, or an uncomfortable cross-country journey.
While this wouldn't be faster than hiring a wizard to teleport the client, it would be significantly cheaper and it wouldn't be subject to the same destination and capacity limitations as Teleport. (Graceful Repose is a 2nd level spell and Revivify is 3rd level plus a 300gp diamond. Teleport is 7th level and would have to be cast twice in order for the caster to return home afterward, and there has to already be a receiving circle at the destination or you have an item that was taken from that destination within the last six months or else there's a risk of the spell going wrong.)
That's a title, not a domain. His domain is the sky. His powerset has nothing to do with kings or gods.
Assblaster5000
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Historically speaking he didn't even have that title originally, with Poseidon holding the title before a massive restructuring of the pantheon sometime before The Bronze Age IIRC. That same restructuring is what got us things like Dionysus being a wine god instead of whatever eldritch abomination we're pretty sure the Greeks used to see him as, even if he kept madness as one of his domains.
Edit:It was actually during The Bronze Age that this was true, here's a video by Overly Sarcasitc Productions that talks about the subject.
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Nervaqus987
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Synecrtism is always weird in settings where the gods are real.
Darko
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Yeah, though maybe history was different on Earth 16 since they existed, so the whole King Poseidon thing never happened and Zeus was always the head honcho.
The gods in this story don't seem to be as malleable as the gods from the Vertigo comics, so they may not have changed due to the belief of the people changing over time.
But I may be wrong.
Ahh, Dio, you truly are a wild one.
That scene where the king looks at him and the horns show up is low-key terrifying.
The Other Half (part 1)
Mr Zoat
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The Other Half
12th July 2012
11:12 GMT -2
"…derstand that you want to stand by your man, Clea, but politically it's a really bad idea."
Queen Clea's rejuvenation has progressed since I first awakened her. She's gone from well-preserved sixty something to athletic fifty something, though if you were seeing her every day you probably wouldn't notice the transition. This being Atlantis I'm sure that someone knows that she's changed magically but as far as I know no Atlantean magicians have had a chance to study the Awakening process.
"I've been assuming that Orin knows." She regards me with sceptical curiosity. "Do you honestly believe that he doesn't?"
Does Orin know? It wouldn't be hard to have a genomorph get close enough to check, but I've found it's a good idea not to do anything you might have to deny in court later. I'm pretty sure that he had no agents in Venturia before Clea attempted a rapprochement, but now..? He probably has agents in the city; the expansion of trade with the surface has required that a great deal more people receive permission to live in the city. But he almost certainly doesn't have agents in place to know about Mr. Hyde's visits, at least by palace intrigue means. If he knows, it's more likely that he has the city under external observation. Or he's been tracking the Manta Sub.
Though I suppose that after today it won't really matter.
"I'd… Guess that he doesn't. I think he'd be a lot more curious if he were able to link the three of us together, rather than just me with each of you."
"I don't much care whether he's pardoned or not."
"It's not the pardon I'm worried about risking, it's your easy economic integration with the rest of Atlantis. If you do end up marrying him… People here do remember his previous attacks."
"I suppose that's the disadvantage of reengaging with the rest of Atlantis. But honestly, treating a mercenary soldier as if they'd committed a crime by fighting in a war." She shakes her head. "I thought the surface world treated wars as morally neutral?"
"Wars are generally considered to be a bad thing, but as long as the soldiers involved act within certain bounds they aren't punished for the decisions of their political superiors. Other than by… Getting shot, obviously."
"There you are, then."
I frown, puzzled.
"Are you saying that if he'd acted against Venturia, you'd have been happy to let him go then?"
"If I'd already killed his employer, yes. If I hadn't, then I'd kill him as a message to both my people and to his employer. But if I took any of his troopers alive I wouldn't kill more than a few of them. Is that not how they do things on Apokolips?"
"Ah… It being understood that I hate the way Apokolips does things?" She nods. "We don't really have that sort of social dynamic. Darkseid is an autocrat-."
"I'm an autocrat."
"Yes, but there's 'autocracy' and 'autocracy'. You have supreme political power, but if you turned enough of your courtiers against you they could still kill you and replace you. You might not need their support legally but you need their support practically. Darkseid could quite cheerfully kill the entire Apokoliptian Elite himself with no help from anyone, and Apokolips would mostly carry on as it did before until he could replace them, if he even bothered."
"How can he rule like that?"
"A lack of interest in developing the talents of-. Oh, you mean in the practical sense." I shrug. "Beat someone often enough and ninety nine point nine nine… Percent of the time, they stop getting up. That, and actual mind control."
"He can puppet so many?"
"No, but the anti-life aura heavily discourages certain types of thought and action. A few -like my brother Scott- can resist, but for most… Myself included, it's… Acting against him is… Nearly unthinkable."
"But you did."
"Even Darkseid can't watch everyone all the time. Not yet, anyway. And I neither remember how I did it nor can say for certain that he didn't just let me. He let Scott escape, after all." I shake my head, snorting with amusement. "I find it funny when humans complain about the tyranny of one or other of their own governments. They really have no idea…"
"Ping!"
"Ah, they're starting." I bow. "Excuse me, your majesty."
She makes a shooing motion with her right hand.
"You are excused."
BOOM!
A portal opens in the Venturian embassy and I step through, emerging at the back of the Poseidonian throne room. David Hyde and two of his senior officers are kneeling in a pocket of air while a-. Oh, Queen Mera's doing it. I suppose that makes sense. She's taken small samples of their blood with a… Pen-like needle, which she's now using to write runes on the bottom of the vellum copy of their pardons. She doesn't need to write the whole thing in their blood -that would be impractical- but the anchor point for the spell needs something a little more emphatic than squid ink. Mr. Hyde and the others are in their usual scuba gear, though obviously they weren't allowed to bring weapons here.
She nods, and one of her aides takes the still-damp document and one of the pens to Mr. Hyde. He rises slightly, takes the pen and signs his name in his own blood before passing both back. A change of pen and his chief engineer does the same. Another change of pen and his senior marine signs his name. The document is then returned to Queen Mera, who checks it over with glowing hands. She breathes sharply, then nods and presents it to King Orin.
Orin does not look even slightly happy about this, though I'm glad Manta and Co. are keeping any sense of triumph they feel off their faces.
"You understand that once I sign this, if you commit any act of violent aggression in Atlantean territory, your blood will be immediately transmuted into seawater."
Mr. Hyde has resumed his kneeling position. He nods.
"Yes, your majesty. We understand."
Orin takes a new pen from an aide and jabs it into his arm. He gives it a moment, then pulls it out and puts it to the pardon.
"By the power vested in me as King of Atlantis, I, King Orin, hereby issue this pardon."
He signs his name, and there's a brief flicker of magic as it takes hold.
"Now get out of my sight."
The three of them rise, Mr. Hyde slightly ahead of the other two. They bow, then turn and head in my direction. Mera gets closer to Orin and mutters something, which seems to calm him down a little. Yeah, I need to do something nice for Atlantis to make up for this. At least if I want to do anything with the place in future, which I probably do.
I exert myself, generating an air pocket around myself for their benefit.
"So. You're free men."
Mr. Hyde nods. "In Atlantis, anyway. How much does Horne want for a US pardon?"
"I… Think in that case you'll probably be waiting for his successor. Or… Some fairly huge act of public penance that you're not getting paid for. I mean, you're not exactly… I don't know, Thaddeus Sivana, but there's a limit to who a US President can get away with pardoning."
"Maybe you should have called me in to help with the Sheeda."
"You aren't equipped for that sort of fight yet. You're an important asset, and I won't give you jobs if the risks aren't worth the returns." I shake my head and smile. "How are you planning to celebrate?"
"I think I'm going to tell my ex-junior gunnery officer and his floozy exactly what I think of them."
…
Ahhhhhhh!
12th July 2012
11:12 GMT -2
"…derstand that you want to stand by your man, Clea, but politically it's a really bad idea."
Queen Clea's rejuvenation has progressed since I first awakened her. She's gone from well-preserved sixty something to athletic fifty something, though if you were seeing her every day you probably wouldn't notice the transition. This being Atlantis I'm sure that someone knows that she's changed magically but as far as I know no Atlantean magicians have had a chance to study the Awakening process.
"I've been assuming that Orin knows." She regards me with sceptical curiosity. "Do you honestly believe that he doesn't?"
Does Orin know? It wouldn't be hard to have a genomorph get close enough to check, but I've found it's a good idea not to do anything you might have to deny in court later. I'm pretty sure that he had no agents in Venturia before Clea attempted a rapprochement, but now..? He probably has agents in the city; the expansion of trade with the surface has required that a great deal more people receive permission to live in the city. But he almost certainly doesn't have agents in place to know about Mr. Hyde's visits, at least by palace intrigue means. If he knows, it's more likely that he has the city under external observation. Or he's been tracking the Manta Sub.
Though I suppose that after today it won't really matter.
"I'd… Guess that he doesn't. I think he'd be a lot more curious if he were able to link the three of us together, rather than just me with each of you."
"I don't much care whether he's pardoned or not."
"It's not the pardon I'm worried about risking, it's your easy economic integration with the rest of Atlantis. If you do end up marrying him… People here do remember his previous attacks."
"I suppose that's the disadvantage of reengaging with the rest of Atlantis. But honestly, treating a mercenary soldier as if they'd committed a crime by fighting in a war." She shakes her head. "I thought the surface world treated wars as morally neutral?"
"Wars are generally considered to be a bad thing, but as long as the soldiers involved act within certain bounds they aren't punished for the decisions of their political superiors. Other than by… Getting shot, obviously."
"There you are, then."
I frown, puzzled.
"Are you saying that if he'd acted against Venturia, you'd have been happy to let him go then?"
"If I'd already killed his employer, yes. If I hadn't, then I'd kill him as a message to both my people and to his employer. But if I took any of his troopers alive I wouldn't kill more than a few of them. Is that not how they do things on Apokolips?"
"Ah… It being understood that I hate the way Apokolips does things?" She nods. "We don't really have that sort of social dynamic. Darkseid is an autocrat-."
"I'm an autocrat."
"Yes, but there's 'autocracy' and 'autocracy'. You have supreme political power, but if you turned enough of your courtiers against you they could still kill you and replace you. You might not need their support legally but you need their support practically. Darkseid could quite cheerfully kill the entire Apokoliptian Elite himself with no help from anyone, and Apokolips would mostly carry on as it did before until he could replace them, if he even bothered."
"How can he rule like that?"
"A lack of interest in developing the talents of-. Oh, you mean in the practical sense." I shrug. "Beat someone often enough and ninety nine point nine nine… Percent of the time, they stop getting up. That, and actual mind control."
"He can puppet so many?"
"No, but the anti-life aura heavily discourages certain types of thought and action. A few -like my brother Scott- can resist, but for most… Myself included, it's… Acting against him is… Nearly unthinkable."
"But you did."
"Even Darkseid can't watch everyone all the time. Not yet, anyway. And I neither remember how I did it nor can say for certain that he didn't just let me. He let Scott escape, after all." I shake my head, snorting with amusement. "I find it funny when humans complain about the tyranny of one or other of their own governments. They really have no idea…"
"Ping!"
"Ah, they're starting." I bow. "Excuse me, your majesty."
She makes a shooing motion with her right hand.
"You are excused."
BOOM!
A portal opens in the Venturian embassy and I step through, emerging at the back of the Poseidonian throne room. David Hyde and two of his senior officers are kneeling in a pocket of air while a-. Oh, Queen Mera's doing it. I suppose that makes sense. She's taken small samples of their blood with a… Pen-like needle, which she's now using to write runes on the bottom of the vellum copy of their pardons. She doesn't need to write the whole thing in their blood -that would be impractical- but the anchor point for the spell needs something a little more emphatic than squid ink. Mr. Hyde and the others are in their usual scuba gear, though obviously they weren't allowed to bring weapons here.
She nods, and one of her aides takes the still-damp document and one of the pens to Mr. Hyde. He rises slightly, takes the pen and signs his name in his own blood before passing both back. A change of pen and his chief engineer does the same. Another change of pen and his senior marine signs his name. The document is then returned to Queen Mera, who checks it over with glowing hands. She breathes sharply, then nods and presents it to King Orin.
Orin does not look even slightly happy about this, though I'm glad Manta and Co. are keeping any sense of triumph they feel off their faces.
"You understand that once I sign this, if you commit any act of violent aggression in Atlantean territory, your blood will be immediately transmuted into seawater."
Mr. Hyde has resumed his kneeling position. He nods.
"Yes, your majesty. We understand."
Orin takes a new pen from an aide and jabs it into his arm. He gives it a moment, then pulls it out and puts it to the pardon.
"By the power vested in me as King of Atlantis, I, King Orin, hereby issue this pardon."
He signs his name, and there's a brief flicker of magic as it takes hold.
"Now get out of my sight."
The three of them rise, Mr. Hyde slightly ahead of the other two. They bow, then turn and head in my direction. Mera gets closer to Orin and mutters something, which seems to calm him down a little. Yeah, I need to do something nice for Atlantis to make up for this. At least if I want to do anything with the place in future, which I probably do.
I exert myself, generating an air pocket around myself for their benefit.
"So. You're free men."
Mr. Hyde nods. "In Atlantis, anyway. How much does Horne want for a US pardon?"
"I… Think in that case you'll probably be waiting for his successor. Or… Some fairly huge act of public penance that you're not getting paid for. I mean, you're not exactly… I don't know, Thaddeus Sivana, but there's a limit to who a US President can get away with pardoning."
"Maybe you should have called me in to help with the Sheeda."
"You aren't equipped for that sort of fight yet. You're an important asset, and I won't give you jobs if the risks aren't worth the returns." I shake my head and smile. "How are you planning to celebrate?"
"I think I'm going to tell my ex-junior gunnery officer and his floozy exactly what I think of them."
…
Ahhhhhhh!
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Idkusername
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Fellow
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Seconded
Ngamer11
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Aqualad's parents. Hopefully the Renegade will be able to convince Black Manta to not be too smug and argumentative with them, since he still considers the Team as his friends.
Darko
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Try less war and more acts of terrorism.
'heavily'
Yeah, I remember that episode where his slaves helped him.
The author of Life Ore Death basically described it as Stockholm Syndrome taken to even more disturbing levels.
You technically didn't escape him.
Actual Grayven did though.
Though you did destroy a piece of the ALE.
Yeah I imagine letting go of the guy that commited multiple crimes and terrorist acts against his people is not making him happy.
Yeah Grayven 'ahhhhh'.
Did you think that working with a supervillain was going to be so easy.
And Manta really has nothing to complain about here.
Zoat seeing as you said this episode was going to be sort of a renegade episode, and judging by the title, are we going to be seeing the POV from the other characters, not just renegade, a paragon supplementary, or an alternate?
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
RichardWhereat
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There is? Haha, good one.
But that link was hilarious. Sadly there are no related links tell us what the animal was.
Coda
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I'm a bit skeptical. Zeus maps rather neatly onto the sky-father archetype common to religions descended from the Proto-Indo-European culture, right down to the name "Zeus" itself. It seems exceptionally unlikely that Poseidon would have ORIGINALLY been the king figure. If he ever held that title, it would have been a fairly short-term Bronze Age thing that rolled back later.
Darko
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He was considered the head honcho during a time where the cthonic gods were considered more important.
Poseidon is also a god of earthquakes, and apparently that qualified him as one and he was the boss.
I don't think Zeus was even mentioned all that much during that time, and that he and Hades may have been seen as the same guy.
Cuchulin
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Agreed, though looking at the Norse Pantheon (particularly Thor, Odin and Tyr) I'd say it's a possibility.
Chojin Patriarch
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And straight into the political fun! Ah, Grayven wastes no time at all, does he? This should be interesting.
Know what? Wait, is Clea dating someone? It's been a while since last we saw her... At any rate, Orin seems to be a little light on the political intrigue side of rulership. I doubt he'd be too interested in espionage. That doesn't rule out his ministers, though...
Maybe he asked Batman or his other sneaky teammates to plant tracking devices while Manta was visiting the surface somewhere...
Eh, he knows you're mostly a good guy. He also knows you hang around Venturia, after all, and while he's no Batman, Orin can draw logical conclusions about Black Manta's apparent change of heart...
Dating Manta? My, my. The Queen likes younger men? Admittedly, most men alive right now are younger than her, so she hasn't a lot of options in that regards.
Ah, yes, the 'civilised' rules of engagement. Not something I expect Clea to respect much. She's an old-fashioned lady... Also, Manta wasn't fighting a war. Wars are fought between nations, and Manta belongs to none.
More likely she'd have had his head removed as soon as possible. Depending on her mood. Then again, it should come down to whether he was paid to do so or not, I would hope.
That's putting it very mildly. To be fair, I don't think you could really put a name to Apokalips beyond Theocracy. After all, the population worship Darkseid as a God, more or less...
...Is that Kirby-tech monolith a computer designed to operate Apokalips as the Elite would? Makes perfect sense, I guess.
A textbook example of it, really. Both the raw dominating charisma and cult of personality. When whole generations of lowlies have known only Darkseid, can you blame them for not considering that there could be any other possibility?
Unless he wants you to. After all, how can he demonstrate his power without examples of foolish rebellion to crush?
Compared to Apokalips, everything else is light and fluffy.
Manta getting his pardon, i take it?
Amusing that Grayven tolerates her acting that way. But then, he is a creature of Acquisition. Let your allies do as they will, and it becomes easier to direct them by waving something they want... Or it's just funny.
Indeed, the amount of text such a pardon might need would probably leave the subjects feeling a little anaemic. As for weapons, I hope Manta isn't wearing his usual helmet. You know, the one with the laser eyes? Would probably seem a bit rude.
Good idea.Last thing you want at this moment is to upset the person pardoning you...
I can already sense him thinking about loopholes... Hopefully he can restrain himself.
And the deal is done, in royal blood. And the new Light has its' asset in the clear...
...As long as Manta doesn't show his face in Atlantis. Still, I'm sure Grayven will be able to keep him busy.
Maybe look into his illegitamate son? Arrange some discreet protection. Orm may be very dead, but there's bound to be someone out there just itching to get their hands on his blood. And I suspect this Earth might have a little more trouble with a Titan running amok.
Pfft. Good luck with that.
...Okay. That was a thing. wonder if that's the seed of an old joke. You know the one. Involving a good man and a goat.
Besides finding somewhere far from Atlantis and getting really, really drunk?
I'll admit, I couldn't remember who that was either, until Ngamer11 pointed it out. Hopefully Grayven can moderate matters for them, prevent any precipitous actions that might get Hyde liquidated...
Onto a Renegade episode we go. I get the feeling there'll be a lot of checking up on things to start with, maybe some League-related stuff if that title means what I think it means. But I could be wrong, and the whole episode is a trip to Equestria (as much as that would have the torches and pitchforks popping up from some of us!)
Vaermina
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In DC his domain is King of the Gods.
Darko
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Yep, she's dating David Hyde aka Black Manta.
And bad boys apparently.
It seems she doesn't know how much of a bad idea that is.
Yep, he was commiting terrorist actions for a guy who thought making a bunch of racists more organized is a good idea.
You know that could explain why the previous queen chose Orin, a guy that doesn't have much experience with ruling, instead of Orm, who was probably groomed to rule since he was a kid.
Orm has all the ethical and moral principles of a rock.
He may be competent at ruling, but if he thought that his ideas to take the throne from Orin were any good then it's very. very obvious his morality is either dead or begging to be killed.
She probably thought that if he took the throne then there was a big risk of him going the way of his comic book self. Basically becoming a warmongering tyrant.
So she chose someone that wouldn't go that route.
Renegade did mention he lets people have hope so he can crush them.
You deserve a blue ring Chojin my boy.
Actually Oceanus is still imprisoned.
The plan to release him was orchestrated by the Light and Orm, and seeing as renegade was stirring them away from stupid ideas, at least a bit, they didn't bust him out.
I'm thinking we may be seeing the POV of multiple characters in this episode and how they're reacting to things.
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Nervaqus987
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I find the term "originally" to be kind of a joke when it comes to stuff like this given the sheer amount of time, syncretism, and lack of record keeping involved.
The period in which Poseidon may have been King of the Gods was in Mycenaean Greece(circa roughly 1600-1100 bc), when it seemed like chthonic deities were given more attention and it seemed like The Earth Shaker was Poseidon's most important epithet then.
Zeus existed during that time, his name has been found on Linear B tablets.
Hades, though, wasn't. Demeter and Persephone were which leads some people to believe that Hades is a later god who got stapled onto an older story.
Idkusername
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[citation needed]
Doccer
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Links?
Darko
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Here.
He destroyed it in one of the previous chapters with Luna.
Whenever Possible
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It was a horse. If you look elsewhere, you can even find pictures of the specific horse.
Pinklestia
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They did keep his son alive so that's something I guess?
Mr Zoat
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He would have happily taken Kaldur off their hands. Delightedly, actually.
Darko
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They also raised him to be an upstanding and law abiding person.
Granted the last thing may not sit well with Manta.
And supervillans aren't exactly known for being reasonable when someone takes something they see as theirs.
And they probably didn't want their kid to grow up and be a mercenary supervillain that kills innocent people for a racist terrorist.
RichardWhereat
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Ah, cheers. I looked all over the place and couldn't find it. But, damn. How many pints of bourbon would you need to drink before that sounded like a good idea?
Mr Zoat
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Firstly: His kid. Calvin ended up doing the job that he wanted to do.
Secondly: Atlantis is in an usually privileged position where military action is concerned, but militaries kill innocent people all the time. The most you can hope for is that they're not deliberately targetting them.
Thirdly: Do you really think that Black Manta has done nothing but hang around Poseidonis for seventeen years?
Darko
Connoisseur.
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- Nov 20, 2019
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I think Kaldur considers Calvin to be his real dad, even if he's not his biological dad.
And a lot of criminals want to raise their kids, but that doesn't mean they should.
Pretty sure that he was targeting innocent people, given who his employer was.
Oh, I don't doubt he's been doing other things, but I do doubt Kaldur would be pleased by those things and suddenly want to form a bond with his gene-donor.