With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[jasonh23761]

I take it they went and got Diana in the time since the last Renegade chapter, since they were talking to Donna? I got about 3/4 of the way through before I realized they were talking to Diana and not still with Donna.

On the one hand, nice to see someone call Grayven on his BS and see him actually deal with the consequences of his rasher actions.

On the other hand, I was really hoping to see Donna fall into Grayven's retinue in a manner similar to Artemis, even if that would have taken a good amount of work to make sense. Donna has always been an interesting character to me who is dramatically underutilized. She's always the older one who is away at college and no one ever uses her tenure as Wonder Girl. Hell, the most interesting thing they ever let her do was fuck off into the void and join the Darkstars.

Now I'm just a bit bummed that she's being relegated to the trash bin again. Womp womp.

 

[Vaermina]

"What if he came here anyway?" I shrug. "Earth's a thaumically active world. His New God navigational systems could easily pick it up, and it isn't exactly a secret on Apokolips that this is where Scott ended up. When this is over… Either he'll be dead and in no position to come after Earth, or I'll be dead and he'll have no reason to come after Earth."

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Or... He will do the smart thing and bypass Vega to attack Earth because it's the place where you have invested most of your power...

"Yes, I get it. Luna's a fraction of my age now, but at least she's an adult."

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Luna's multiple thousands of years old...

 

[egooo]

Luna's multiple thousands of years old...

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I'm pretty sure that's never stated in the show?

The only determined stretch of time is the thousand years she's been banished for, and that technically doesn't count, depending on how one justifies (handwaved by being "in slumber' most often).

"Many thousands years old" is often used in pony stories, yes, but it is not canon.

No definite canon exists as far as I can tell, so Zoat is free to interpret her as someone who lived for 'only' a hundred years or two before the banishment.

At worst, she's, like, 2.5-3 times Renegade's age (counting the banishment).

 

[Mr Zoat]

new -> New

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No, the Renegade is so very British that he can't help but think of it as 'the York that happens to be new'.

I'm pretty sure that's never stated in the show?

The only determined stretch of time is the thousand years she's been banished for, and that technically doesn't count, depending on how one justifies (handwaved by being "in slumber' most often).

"Many thousands years old" is often used in pony stories, yes, but it is not canon.

No definite canon exists as far as I can tell, so Zoat is free to interpret her as someone who lived for 'only' a hundred years or two before the banishment.

At worst, she's, like, 2.5-3 times Renegade's age (counting the banishment).

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As stated in the Equestria episodes, Luna's in her forties. Which is no age for an alicorn.

 

[Sorrow]

Wow, the League really don't like Gravy do they?

 

[Prince Charon]

"I'm a hundred times his age. At least. He just feels… Young."

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OK, if she's not exaggerating much, they were in that future longer than I thought.

Wow, the League really don't like Gravy do they?

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He's rather villainous, but still technically not a villain so they can't arrest him, he's basically friends with Lex and other people that they don't like (with good reason), and he intentionally bruises their egos in ways that they aren't used to.

 

[Pinklestia]

Wow, the League really don't like Gravy do they?

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I think that is because he is not part of their Club and doesn't obey orders of them anymore.

 

[Darko]

I think that is because he is not part of their Club and doesn't obey orders of them anymore.

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The fact that he's an asshole and has worked and helped people that have commited horrible crimes get off and even become more powerful, like Luthor, may also play a big part.

 

[Bud-E]

Lex offered, but it… Wouldn't be a good idea. Apokoliptian ships would be shielded against purple death rays, tough enough to take cold guns and have sensors good enough to detect ships through our stealth systems. It just wasn't worth the risk.

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I might have missed this but when did renegade turn the purple healing ray into a death ray and how does it work?

 

[Ngamer11]

I might have missed this but when did renegade turn the purple healing ray into a death ray and how does it work?

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It was first mentioned in Episode 30: Aberration. Though I don't remember the explanation for how it worked.

 

[DrThoth]

I might have missed this but when did renegade turn the purple healing ray into a death ray and how does it work?

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It happened a really long time ago, basically a little while after he got access to the healing ray design schematics (from his first and only visit to Themyscira, I believe). I don't recall a detailed explanation for how it functions, but it just reverses the revitalizing properties of the healing ray to drain 'life energy' I guess- there's definitely a magical aspect to it since it's less effective on low-thaumic worlds.

I'm rereading the story from when Paragon first leaves Earth/the Solar System and this might have been answered, but what ended up happening with Estrogina and the other Zamaron Pirates? Was the former killed during the assault on Wombworld? I don't believe Paragon ever asked Ghi'ata about them or anything.

 

[Doccer]

Artemis glares at me out of the corner of her eyes. Hunt-Partner Warns Prey.

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This gives me the sense of Artemis being a cat. Particularly the God speech but at the end.

 

[Darko]

I'm rereading the story from when Paragon first leaves Earth/the Solar System and this might have been answered, but what ended up happening with Estrogina and the other Zamaron Pirates? Was the former killed during the assault on Wombworld? I don't believe Paragon ever asked Ghi'ata about them or anything.

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They most likely died on Wombworld.

Also it may not have occurred to him to ask the actual Zamarons about them.

They didn't use Maltusian tech or even have any Maltusian powers.

They may have called themselves Zamarins since they respected the female ruled Zamarons or it's a coincidence that they share a similar name.

However their ability to resist power rings could mean that they have some connection to Maltusians, but there's no reason for Ghi'ata to know about them.

Hinon was not aware that Javek was making Effigy and she also mentioned that not telling others what they're doing was standard among them, or something like that, so some Zamaron may have created the Vega Zamarons and just didn't tell anyone about them.

 

[Pinklestia]

The fact that he's an asshole and has worked and helped people that have commited horrible crimes get off and even become more powerful, like Luthor, may also play a big part.

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Luthor is under heavy watch, if he goes pass the line again he will get killed by a shady government agency and the League, or at least Batman and Superman, know that.

What they really not like is that the jump to the stars is being spear headed by Luthor of all people, because Luthor is not trustworthy.

Besides, it got to sting to Bruce that he has not been able to reform Two Face yet Luthor of all people gets a second chance and so far it looks like it stuck.

Grayven way may not be nice but it works, while Batman just keeps putting bandages over infesting wounds.

And Superman? Batman himself says that the problem with Superman is that he is basically in a dick measuring contest and Metropolis wouldn't get as many powerful Supervillains if it wasn't Superman city. Why do.you think he has his "Stay out of Gotham" policy?

Yes Grayven is an asshole, but so is Batman and they still work with him.

And yes Young Justice Batman is still an asshole, he made a black ops team of a bunch of kids and didn't even get them training on how to be a black ops team. When other Batman put shit like this at least they have the decency to use adults.

 

[DrThoth]

They may have called themselves Zamarins since they respected the female ruled Zamarons or it's a coincidence that they share a similar name.

However their ability to resist power rings could mean that they have some connection to Maltusians, but there's no reason for Ghi'ata to know about them.

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Zoat basically confirmed that they were the result of Zamaron experimentation/augmentation at some point, though you're right that Ghi'ata has no particular reason to know about them (but then again, it wouldn't be implausible either). I'm not sure if their bloodlust-driven psychology was a result of the process, but if not it seems like they have a useful set of biological abilities it might be possible to replicate, especially if Sinestro's starting his Corps up in earnest.

 

[Coda]

Ockham's Razor

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Not technically wrong, especially if that's more common in British English, but the original spelling is "Occam's".

 

[Mr Zoat]

27th August 2012
13:05 GMT -5

"Agent… Grayven?"

He recognised me at once, but it took a moment for him to get his thoughts in order. He looks haggard. Tired.

"Officer Danvers." I smile politely, but try to avoid showing actual joy. This isn't really that sort of occasion. "Thank you for opening the door."

"What-? What are you here for? The DMA people already checked… They already checked."

Surprising what a few FBI agents with a little magic training can turn up when they put their minds to it. The individual known locally as 'Buzz' escaped, but the summoning he was attempting was interrupted. Not before the death of the ritual sacrifice, but from the reports it looked a lot like her involvement wasn't entirely involuntary.

"Ye-ah, I'm… Not here about that. I'm… I'm here about the will."

His face falls slightly. "Oh. Oh."

"I wouldn't normally even hear about something like this, but she actually posted me a copy and my clerks brought it to my attention…"

He shakes his head. "There's no way that can be legally binding."

"… No, but it does express your late daughter's wishes fairly explicitly."

"'Use my body for some… Fucked up magic or some shit like that. Something that'll piss off my parents.' And-." His face creases up. "And you actually want to do that?"

"Chirurgeons used to train on corpses stolen from graveyards. I've got a ritual that requires the reasonably fresh corpse of a woman infused with demonic magic." I spread my hands out. "Not really a lot of opportunities for something like that, and I'm pretty sure that a disinterested party would consider it to be 'fucked up magic'."

He lets out a burst of decidedly unamused laughter, then shakes his head.

"Shit. What d'you even want her for?"

"Are you sure that you want to know?"

"It's got ta be something that'll piss me off, hasn't it?"

"Alright. Well, demons have no sense of morals. While humans…" I remember what state I'm in. "Are descended from people who ate the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden and so have certain God-given moral intuitions-"

Or are descended from ape-men who gradually learned that cooperating with other ape-men improved their chances of survival.

"-demons aren't and lack that. However, demons are capable of learning to function in human society. Most just use that knowledge to conceal their actions better, but a few make a genuine effort to fit in. One of my children's tutors is just such a demon. She's been living as a human without… Alright, not entirely without incident, but considering what she is a couple of counts of operating an unlicensed abattoir is pretty minor."

I mean, there's no specific law against eating puppies.

…

That I know of.

"O-okay, so, what?"

"So she got married, and she and her husband want to have children, but it turns out that's actually quite hard when your body is a manifestation of demonic energy. And because we're keeping an eye on her, she can't get away with the usual standby of possessing someone. And it turns out that isn't as easy to maintain in the long term as you might assume."

"And you want to put her in my daughter's body?"

"Yes."

"No."

"But that's not all."

"No. No."

"Okay, but you might want to-"

"No you goddamn-"

"-consider where your daughter's soul likely ended up."

"-son of..! … The Hell you mean by that?"

"Drugs, promiscuous sexual activity, demon magic and generally being kind of a bitch. These are not the things that lead to a glorious unification with the Source after the end of one's time in this veil of tears. Unless you're one of my kind and have special dispensation to just be yourself, that sort of thing results in the newly liberated soul heading straight down."

His mouth twitches like it wants to fold down at the edges but he's trying to keep under control. No one wants to believe that their daughter went to Hell, even if a disinterested party might look at the available evidence and say 'well, duh'.

"W-. W-? If this demon is just… Gunna be possessing her body-."

"Part of the ritual involves bringing her soul back. She won't be able to interact with the world, but she won't be enduring all of the torments of Hell any longer."

"Dear God in Heaven."

I bring my hands together in a clap.

"So…"

"Can-? Can we think about it?"

"I'd like to say 'yes', but the ritual has a definite deadline and we're already pushing it. We're not going to get a chance to do this again for a good long while, and that won't get Linda out of Hell."

"I don't-. I-. … Yes! Yes, do it."

I nod respectfully.

"Thank you. I shall trouble you no more."

I turn away and walk back through the hush tube that brought me here.

27th August 2012
11:08 GMT -7

Sunset looks up as I walk into her workroom, Linda Danver's naked corpse on a raised bier and painted in runic designs. John Constantine is still busy completing the patterns on her right leg while the prospective graftee fidgets awkwardly.

"Retrospective consent?"

I nod. "Attained. You ready, Gloria?"

Gloria doesn't look too impressed. "She doesn't look anything like me."

I hold out my left hand to her and she hesitatingly takes it. I focus my designs on the corpse and orange light radiates out, moving over the deanimated flesh. Bones lengthen, skin and hair darken and her breasts swell from 'reasonably well-endowed teenager' to 'chirurgically augmented WAG'.

"My nose does not look like that."

"If you don't like it, having a fleshy body will mean that you can pay a man to change it. Mister Constantine?"

"All set." He steps back. "The girl's soul will power the tattoos-"

Gloria grimaces. "Tatt-?"

"-which won't be visible when they're on, and will hide you from anyone looking for you with magic."

I remove my left hand. "Body's all done. Sunset?"

Sunset holds up a pair of unpleasant-looking rune-inscribed brass chains. "All ready here! Let's do some original research!"

 

[Idkusername]

Another win for Mad Science!

Er, Unhinged Wizardry!

 

[Vaermina]

Isn't both demonology and necromancy illegal?

 

[RichardWhereat]

I miss the laugh reactions.

 

[Z3r0Sama]

Isn't both demonology and necromancy illegal?

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Laughs in Grayven

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Another win for Mad Science!

Er, Unhinged Wizardry!

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Why not both?

 

[Darko]

Alright. Well, demons have no sense of morals. While humans…" I remember what state I'm in. "Are descended from people who ate the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden and so have certain God-given moral intuitions-"

Or are descended from ape-men who gradually learned that cooperating with other ape-men improved their chances of survival.

Click to shrink...

Technically both.

demons aren't and lack that.

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Though some demons were former humans.

I mean, there's no specific law against eating puppies.

…

That I know of.

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Animal cruelty laws may apply.

yourself, that sort of things results in the newly liberated soul heading straight down."

Click to shrink...

'of things or 'those sort'

Part of the ritual involves bringing her soul back. She won't be able to interact with the world, but she won't be enduring all of the torments of Hell any longer."

Click to shrink...

Though being trapped in her body would probably feel like hell.

"My nose does notlook like that

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'not look'

Is the next episode paragon or renegade focused.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Uh, the soul powers the tattoos? Forever? That's harsh man.

 

[Vanbers]

Another win for Mad Science!

Er, Unhinged Wizardry!

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Well, as Farnsworth says:

HAIL SCIENCE!

Uh, the soul powers the tattoos? Forever? That's harsh man.

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More harsh than eternal pain, suffering, and active/directed/malicious torment?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'of things or 'those sort'
'not look'

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Thank you, corrected.

Uh, the soul powers the tattoos? Forever? That's harsh man.

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Well...

And I looked for a clip, but I couldn't find one.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

27th August 2012
13:05 GMT -5

"Agent… Grayven?"

He recognised me at once, but it took a moment for him to get his thoughts in order. He looks haggard. Tired.

"Officer Danvers." I smile politely, but try to avoid showing actual joy. This isn't really that sort of occasion. "Thank you for opening the door."

Click to shrink...

...Ah, Linda Danvers' father. I'm guessing the events that occurred in the Paragon timeline also happened here, and didn't end so well. A sound reminder that the Renegade is missing out on a lot of things while he's off in space...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"What-? What are you here for? The DMA people already checked… They already checked."

Surprising what a few FBI agents with a little magic training can turn up when they put their minds to it. The individual known locally as 'Buzz' escaped, but the summoning he was attempting was interrupted. Not before the death of the ritual sacrifice, but from the reports it looked a lot like her involvement wasn't entirely involuntary.

Click to shrink...

I have to wonder who or what he was summoning in this timeline, since Noriel wouldn't have been available, not having been discorporated without the hunt for the 'Thief of Eden...'

"Ye-ah, I'm… Not here about that. I'm… I'm here about the will."

His face falls slightly. "Oh. Oh."

"I wouldn't normally even hear about something like this, but she actually posted me a copy and my clerks brought it to my attention…"

Click to shrink...

...Huh. That's interesting.

He shakes his head. "There's no way that can be legally binding."

"… No, but it does express your late daughter's wishes fairly explicitly."

"'Use my body for some… Fucked up magic or some shit like that. Something that'll piss off my parents.' And-." His face creases up. "And you actually want to do that?"

Click to shrink...

Ah. Yes, that makes a lot of sense, I guess. Given what we heard about Linda's character before...

"Chirurgeons used to train on corpses stolen from graveyards. I've got a ritual that requires the reasonably fresh corpse of a woman infused with demonic magic." I spread my hands out. "Not really a lot of opportunities for something like that, and I'm pretty sure that a disinterested party would consider it to be 'fucked up magic'."

He lets out a burst of decidedly unamused laughter, then shakes his head.

Click to shrink...

Not exactly the sort of thing you can custom-order, after all.

"Shit. What d'you even want her for?"

"Are you sure that you want to know?"

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To be fair, I don't think we want to either... But...

"It's got ta be something that'll piss me off, hasn't it?"

"Alright. Well, demons have no sense of morals. While humans…" I remember what state I'm in. "Are descended from people who ate the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden and so have certain God-given moral intuitions-"

Click to shrink...

Which Renegade doesn't realise is an actual place, does he? Not having dug into things like that the way Paragon did...

Or are descended from ape-men who gradually learned that cooperating with other ape-men improved their chances of survival.

"-demons aren't and lack that. However, demons are capable of learning to function in human society. Most just use that knowledge to conceal their actions better, but a few make a genuine effort to fit in. One of my children's tutors is just such a demon. She's been living as a human without… Alright, not entirely without incident, but considering what she is a couple of counts of operating an unlicensed abattoir is pretty minor."

Click to shrink...

... Is this a 'Hellblazer' thing?

I mean, there's no specific law against eating puppies.

…

That I know of.

Click to shrink...

...Definitely a 'Hellblazer' thing.

"O-okay, so, what?"

"So she got married, and she and her husband want to have children, but it turns out that's actually quite hard when your body is a manifestation of demonic energy. And because we're keeping an eye on her, she can't get away with the usual standby of possessing someone. And it turns out that isn't as easy to maintain in the long term as you might assume."

Click to shrink...

No, don't want her popping out sprogs that are just chock-filled with demonic energies. Remember Satanus and Angelica Blaze? Yeah.

"And you want to put her in my daughter's body?"

"Yes."

"No."

Click to shrink...

...Not an unreasonable response.

"But that's not all."

"No. No."

Click to shrink...

Well, if he goes to slug the Renegade, at least it won't hurt... Much.

"Okay, but you might want to-"

"No you goddamn-"

"-consider where your daughter's soul likely ended up."

Click to shrink...

...Oooh, yeah. She was bound for the express lane down Hell's Highway...

"-son of..! … The Hell you mean by that?"

"Drugs, promiscuous sexual activity, demon magic and generally being kind of a bitch. These are not the things that lead to a glorious unification with the Source after the end of one's time in this veil of tears. Unless you're one of my kind and have special dispensation to just be yourself, that sort of things results in the newly liberated soul heading straight down."

Click to shrink...

Not in a handbasket, but I doubt the ride is any more pleasant regardless.

His mouth twitches like it wants to fold down at the edges but he's trying to keep under control. No one wants to believe that their daughter went to Hell, even if a disinterested party might look at the available evidence and say 'well, duh'.

"W-. W-? If this demon is just… Gunna be possessing her body-."

"Part of the ritual involves bringing her soul back. She won't be able to interact with the world, but she won't be enduring all of the torments of Hell any longer."

Click to shrink...

...Not seeing an improvement...

"Dear God in Heaven."

I bring my hands together in a clap.

Click to shrink...

Not the time for your brand of cheerfulness, Renegade...

"So…"

"Can-? Can we think about it?"

"I'd like to say 'yes', but the ritual has a definite deadline and we're already pushing it. We're not going to get a chance to do this again for a good long while, and that won't get Linda out of Hell."

Click to shrink...

I'm sure Buzz's buddies have just the perfect pit of fire lined up for her...

"I don't-. I-. … Yes! Yes, do it."

I nod respectfully.

"Thank you. I shall trouble you no more."

Click to shrink...

I hope not.

I turn away and walk back through the hush tube that brought me here.

27th August 2012
11:08 GMT -7

Sunset looks up as I walk into her workroom, Linda Danver's naked corpse on a raised bier and painted in runic designs. John Constantine is still busy completing the patterns on her right leg while the prospective graftee fidgets awkwardly.

Click to shrink...

Oh, this has so many ways it could go wrong...

"Retrospective consent?"

I nod. "Attained. You ready, Gloria?"

Click to shrink...

Easier to ask forgiveness than permission, eh? Or in this case, belated permission...

Gloria doesn't look too impressed. "She doesn't look anything like me."

I hold out my left hand to her and she hesitatingly takes it. I focus my designs on the corpse and orange light radiates out, moving over the deaniamted flesh. Bones lengthen, skin and hair darken and her breasts swell from 'reasonably well-endowed teenager' to 'chirurgically augmented WAG'.

Click to shrink...

Well, at least she'll have the most common superpower...

"My nose does notlook like that."

"If you don't like it, having a fleshy body will mean that you can pay a man to change it. Mister Constantine?"

Click to shrink...

Just keep in mind it's expensive, and potentially painful, the latter being something she's not used to...

"All set." He steps back. "The girl's soul will power that tattoos-"

Gloria grimaces. "Tatt-?"

"-which won't be visible when they're on, and will hide you from anyone looking for you with magic."

Click to shrink...

Ah, the same set as Chantinelle and the Paragon, eh? At least this set didn't need to be carved onto the soul... yet.

I remove my left hand. "Body's all done. Sunset?"

Sunset holds up a pair of unpleasant-looking rune-inscribed brass chains. "All ready here! Let's do some original research!"

Click to shrink...

That really needs a burst of maniacal laughter, doesn't it?

Okay, that came out more or less from nowhere. Still, if it's an obligation, the Narrative won't let it pass unattended-to. I suppose it's safer than producing some half-demon babies. Those are always trouble. And Sunset gets to play with some spells that would quite upset Celestia, so... Bonus?

 

[Darko]

Well, as Farnsworth says:

HAIL SCIENCE!

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I'm now thinking of this.

 

[jaelin910]

Well...

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Blocked in Australia on copyright grounds.

 

[Darko]

I have to wonder who or what he was summoning in this timeline, since Noriel wouldn't have been available, not having been discorporated without the hunt for the 'Thief of Eden...'

Click to shrink...

Buzz did have a superior he answered to, so maybe he was trying to summon them.

Which Renegade doesn't realise is an actual place, does he? Not having dug into things like that the way Paragon did...

Click to shrink...

He may know it's real, but may not know the specifics.

... Is this a 'Hellblazer' thing?

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Even if it wasn't it really sounds like it could belong there.

...Definitely a 'Hellblazer' thing.

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Read my above post.

No, don't want her popping out sprogs that are just chock-filled with demonic energies. Remember Satanus and Angelica Blaze? Yeah.

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This wouldn't be the first time renegade has been behind something very stupid.

Not in a handbasket, but I doubt the ride is any more pleasant regardless.

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Not the time for your brand of cheerfulness, Renegade...

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When it's not the time for his particular brand he tends to use it the most.

I hope not.

Click to shrink...

Your hope will not come to fruition.

Just keep in mind it's expensive, and potentially painful, the latter being something she's not used to...

Click to shrink...

Seeing as she's from Hell she may be used to pain.

Having her finger nails pulled off may be her equivalent of a manicure.

Okay, that came out more or less from nowhere. Still, if it's an obligation, the Narrative won't let it pass unattended-to. I suppose it's safer than producing some half-demon babies. Those are always trouble. And Sunset gets to play with some spells that would quite upset Celestia, so... Bonus?

Click to shrink...

These spells may upset a lot of people not just Celestia.