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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
jasonh23761 said:
Oh, joy. This isn't just evil, it's stupid evil.

You clearly have the technology to at least imitate the New Gods themselves. Why in the name of all that is practical in the world did your organization/civilization decide that being inefficient planet harvesters was the proper way to go about things?

The Citizenry is like the Sheeda but somehow even less practical.

Just kill her and be done with it.
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In the comics, that was probably Astarte's decision.

The Citizenry is ruled by a tyrant whose word is law. That's how WW defeated them in the comics. When she defeated Astarte she became the tyrant of the Citizenry and she told them to retire and go find planets and take up farming or whatever.

The Citizenry didn't turn Earth into soylent green after they collected Astarte and the other 99 tribute/recruits. So why would Earth be an exception? Unless they just didn't do that back then.

So in all likelihood, the Citizenry probably turned to soylent green because Astarte said so.
 
Stsword said:
The Citizenry didn't turn Earth into soylent green after they collected Astarte and the other 99 tribute/recruits. So why would Earth be an exception? Unless they just didn't do that back then.
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They may have wanted to recruit people from there in the future.

Stsword said:
So in all likelihood, the Citizenry probably turned to soylent green because Astarte said so.
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Or the one in charge before her chose that and she just kept doing it.
 
Pinklestia said:
My mistake it was in a fanfic.
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If it makes you feel better that's pretty much canon in the universe of Justice League the Nail.

In the sequel it reveals that Prof Ivo was an archeologist, which left the League a bit curious about how he built a power duplicating robot.

Turns out he found in one of his digs a bit of Desaad's technology, who reverse engineered the energy absorption powers of an Anti-Monitor expy.
 
Pinklestia said:
Yeah a human ruled future Earth for thousands of years, has a New God Soul and New God powers, is also connected to the Elements of Harmony, sure.
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Yeah that sounds about right to me. I mean Plastic Man was literally discussed only a few chapters ago.

Humans are pretty weird. And they are the Fifth World. The fact that he went and tinkered with his soul doesnt make him less human.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"I am Diana, Princess of Themyscira, and your niece. And now I must decide what I am to do with you."
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Take you back to Themyscira to be rehabilitated of course!
Surprised Grayven didn't say 'narratively' in his answer.
Even more surprised Grayven didn't hammer in the point she's spent the last 3000 years slurping down infant slurry just to hammer home how far gone she's been/is.


Why didn't they unleash those s on Earth 3000 years ago?


Chojin Patriarch said:
Choose your next words carefully, Renegade, or she'll be putting a boot so far up you, not only will you taste her shoe leather in your mouth but you smell her feet as her toes stick out of your lips... I do not think she's in the mood.
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:pFixed it for ya! You forgot to account for how long it's been since she had a certifiable reason to attack him!
 
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Doccer said:
Take you back to Themyscira to be rehabilitated of course!
Surprised Grayven did say 'narratively' in his answer.
Even more surprised Grayven didn't hammer in the point she's spent the last 3000 years slurping down infant slurry just to hammer home how far gone she's been/is.
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I mean surely themyscira has the death penalty for 3000 years of genocide?
 
DAT_NOOB said:
I mean surely themyscira has the death penalty for 3000 years of genocide?
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Look. They have the ELEMENTS OF HARMORNY!
THey're going to blast her with it because fuck the ANTI-LIFE EQUATION

And yes. I fully expect Darksied to be defeated by the pastel pony power partiality pact.
 
The discussion of Astarte made me realize something about the canon that has been bugging me for a while.

A major point is that Paul doesnt have knowledge of Young Justice. This trips him up at various points. But he retains his knowledge of Post-Crisis Earth. And this universe is post-crisis earth except where Young Justice S1-2 contradicts it. And S1-2 doesnt actually cover a lot.

This means Paul has massive knowledge such ss the whole Vertigo line where he can basically list off all of Constantine's adventures. And he basically is never wrong. There arent any other real variances aside from Young Justice.

And the fact that Paul can exploit this knowledge often takes him away from the YJ elements of the fic. Not to mention feels way too easy. Especially with how much some elements are altered by YJ canon.

Like compare to Raul. Yes he is in Teen Titans and there is more. But that more doesnt translate nearly as close to Post Crisis based on what we heard about the Reds. Or Blaul in the Animated Crisis on 2 Worlds universe. That world is expanded, but doesnt draw comic Syndicates nearly as much.

They all seem to retain their general DC knowledge, but lose the knowledge specific to their piece of fiction. Even in other universes such as Buffy or the Boys. Except that the general DC knowledge includes Post-Crisis, and Paragon's earth generally follows post-crisis.
 
Radix said:
The discussion of Astarte made me realize something about the canon that has been bugging me for a while.

A major point is that Paul doesnt have knowledge of Young Justice. This trips him up at various points. But he retains his knowledge of Post-Crisis Earth. And this universe is post-crisis earth except where Young Justice S1-2 contradicts it. And S1-2 doesnt actually cover a lot.

This means Paul has massive knowledge such ss the whole Vertigo line where he can basically list off all of Constantine's adventures. And he basically is never wrong. There arent any other real variances aside from Young Justice.

And the fact that Paul can exploit this knowledge often takes him away from the YJ elements of the fic. Not to mention feels way too easy. Especially with how much some elements are altered by YJ canon.

Like compare to Raul. Yes he is in Teen Titans and there is more. But that more doesnt translate nearly as close to Post Crisis based on what we heard about the Reds. Or Blaul in the Animated Crisis on 2 Worlds universe. That world is expanded, but doesnt draw comic Syndicates nearly as much.

They all seem to retain their general DC knowledge, but lose the knowledge specific to their piece of fiction. Even in other universes such as Buffy or the Boys. Except that the general DC knowledge includes Post-Crisis, and Paragon's earth generally follows post-crisis.
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Mostly accurate, but it's amusingly worse then that.

Often times when Paul makes mistakes about things, like with how the Tattoo's are actually supposed to work. It ends up working, or being a thing that happened, exactly the mistaken way he thinks it does.

It's honestly one of the biggest problems Zoat has as a writer.
 
Veganism (part 9)
  • Threadmarks
    • 1st September 2012
    14:55 GMT

    I shrug. "Well, you can't beat her up. It's-"

    "Niece?"

    "-quite wrong to do that to a prisoner."

    Diana scowls. "That is not what I am debating."

    Astarte is staring at Diana in disbelief. I wonder w-? Oh, of course. She's from the Old City. Back when Amazons lived their mortal span, aged and died like normal humans. Hippolyta would have died a little under three thousand years ago-. Wouldn't she?

    "Diana, is Hippolyta a demigoddess? I didn't really get a good look at her when I visited Themyscira."

    "Yes. And before you ask, I do not know who my mother's father-"

    The lasso glows. "Ares."

    "-was." Diana's eyes widen slightly, her face falling. "No."

    Huh. "That would explain Astarte's divine voice. I'm a little surprised about Hippolyta, though. She doesn't seem to be the war demigoddess sort."

    "'A warrior must know when to sheathe their sword as well as when to draw it'. She told me that when I was a girl. I never thought it had any deeper meaning."

    "A war demigoddess with self-control." I frown. "You know, she's wasted on Themyscira. Do you think-?"

    "No."

    I give her a reproachful frown. "Not like that. I'm with Luna, and Hippolyta's doing that painfully oblivious thing with Captain Philippus. I'm talking about giving her a greater stage upon which to demonstrate her abilities. But we can discuss that later."

    Diana frowns. "Oblivious..? Yes. Astarte. Can you command this fleet to abandon Grayven?"

    "Easily. They have no love for him. But that will not prevent them from ravaging this region."

    "Could you command them not to?"

    "I could issue the command. They would not obey it. They would kill me, then the commanders would fight amongst themselves for my position. And then the victor would carry on as before."

    I smile brightly. "Works for me."

    Diana scowls at me. "It does not work for me."

    "Diana, I realise that you don't leave Earth all that often, but let me be very clear about this. Out here, all too often, this is what it's like. There is no universal law or accepted moral code. The Green Lantern Corps are a very small-" I hold up my right hand and hold my thumb and forefinger a small distance apart from one another. "-plaster over a ripped open ribcage. People like the Citizenry, like the psions, like the Citadel, like Apokolips, they do what they like and no one tries to stop them. Worlds burn, and if other places hear about it it's met with profound indifference. Space is vast and full of malevolence and it's by sheer chance that the Earth hasn't been snuffed out as the planet below us has."

    I lean forward slightly, maintaining eye contact.

    "The laws you're used to do not exist. The common moral standards you're used to do not exist. The fellowship between peoples you're used to does not exist. What we have here is a community of mass murdering cannibals. If you want to try to persuade them to take a course of action that doesn't result in the preponderance of them being dead? Fine. That will make them your responsibility, yours to stay with for as many years, decades, centuries even, that it takes to get them straightened out. Are you prepared to do that? Are you in for the long haul, or are you going to throw a speech at them and then leave them to it? Because I assure you that will not work."

    "And that is why you want to kill them? Because you believe that is what it will take and don't believe that I am prepared to do what is necessary to ensure that it does not?"

    "I want to kill them because I'd like to establish a baseline of morality and under the circumstances I don't think that exterminating a culture of genocidal cannibals is a particularly unreasonable thing to do. If you disagree with me then put. The. Work. In. Place your mark upon the universe and change it to better suit you. But don't assume that it'll just happen."

    She looks at me, frustration giving way slightly to curiosity.

    "Has that happened to you?"

    "I was it happening to you."

    "If you beat me in the arena, the other-" We both turn to Astarte. "-commanders might accept you. Niece." She doesn't sound like she's signing her own death warrant. Maybe she thinks that she can win? "Once they realise what you're trying to do they'll try to kill you, but they'll do it as one Citizen to another without tearing the fleet apart."

    "Interesting opportunity there, Diana. Kill quite a few people one at a time over a period of years, or let a lot kill each other over a couple of days."

    "I don't believe those are the options. Can I fight to first blood?"

    "No."

    "Submission, then."

    "Perhaps. You would have to be extremely brutal to make a commander submit to you, and if it looked like you were unwilling to kill then the others would see you as weak. I would never submit to you."

    "Never?"

    "Never."

    I nod. "People don't rise to the top in this sort of society by doubting themselves or hesitating to use violence." Hm. "Hey, Astarte, do you have any children?"

    "Yes. One daughter."

    "Let me guess: you raised her the Spartan way and now she's some sort of crazy warrior champion."

    "The Spartans were weak. Theana is the most vicious Citizen soldier we've ever raised. Every cruel impulse embodied in a single woman."

    I grin. "Oh, a true granddaughter for Ares. How about it, Diana? Do you think you can talk her down? How is reforming Ares going?"

    "I refuse to believe that any mortal woman can be that cruel."

    I shake my head. But, hey, at least she's committing. "If you die, I'll include that optimistic quote in your funeral oration. So we're doing this?"

    "I'm doing this. You may do what you like."

    "Frustrating as I find you sometimes, I'm no more likely to abandon you than you are to abandon me. I don't think this will work, but it would be nice if it did."

    She nods.

    "Aunt. How do I announce this challenge?"

    "Unbind me."

    Diana hesitates, but I just smile.

    "It's not like my drones have gone anywhere." I hold out my left hand and begin fabricating a new daiklave. "Let her go. She's going to get the chance to fight you anyway. She's a psycho, not an idiot."

    I deactivate the healing ray and phase the drone out as Diana steps behind her aunt and begins removing the lasso. She steps back promptly as the rope comes loose and Astarte rises to her feet, loosening the muscles in her arms in preparation for a fight.

    Diana stands proud. "Here or in the arena, aunt Astarte."

    "The arena. Captain Astarte to all commanders. I have a challenger."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Vaermina said:
    Mostly accurate, but it's amusingly worse then that.

    Often times when Paul makes mistakes about things, like with how the Tattoo's are actually supposed to work. It ends up working, or being a thing that happened, exactly the mistaken way he thinks it does.

    It's honestly one of the biggest problems Zoat has as a writer.
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    You say it's a problem. I say it just makes With This Ring have some verisimilitude with every other reboot that comic books have ever seen -- when you have the freedom to define the world, but you want to revisit a story that's already been written, tinkering with the details to make a similar end result happen while the specific facts are different is par for the course. One might even call it a genre convention, if you were being charitable. You could call it fate, if you want to be Watsonian about it.

    The mark of a good writer isn't that they don't do stuff like this, but that they can tell an interesting story even though you know it's happening.
     
    Radix said:
    The discussion of Astarte made me realize something about the canon that has been bugging me for a while.

    A major point is that Paul doesnt have knowledge of Young Justice. This trips him up at various points. But he retains his knowledge of Post-Crisis Earth. And this universe is post-crisis earth except where Young Justice S1-2 contradicts it. And S1-2 doesnt actually cover a lot.

    This means Paul has massive knowledge such ss the whole Vertigo line where he can basically list off all of Constantine's adventures. And he basically is never wrong. There arent any other real variances aside from Young Justice.

    And the fact that Paul can exploit this knowledge often takes him away from the YJ elements of the fic. Not to mention feels way too easy. Especially with how much some elements are altered by YJ canon.

    Like compare to Raul. Yes he is in Teen Titans and there is more. But that more doesnt translate nearly as close to Post Crisis based on what we heard about the Reds. Or Blaul in the Animated Crisis on 2 Worlds universe. That world is expanded, but doesnt draw comic Syndicates nearly as much.

    They all seem to retain their general DC knowledge, but lose the knowledge specific to their piece of fiction. Even in other universes such as Buffy or the Boys. Except that the general DC knowledge includes Post-Crisis, and Paragon's earth generally follows post-crisis.
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    The problem there is less the SI's knowledge of DC and more my knowledge of DC. Obviously, I only know what I know. This means that I can't include things I don't know about.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Astarte is staring at Diana in disbelief. I wonder w-? Oh, of course. She's from the Old City. Back when Amazons lived their mortal span, aged and died like normal humans. Hippolyta would have died a little under three thousand years ago-. Wouldn't she?
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    Not necessarily.

    She's also a demigoddess and may have lived for thousands of years without outside assistance.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Diana, is Hippolyta a demigoddess? I didn't really get a good look at her when I visited Themyscira."
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    Though you were interested in her soul structure.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Yes. And before you ask, I do not know who my mother's father-"

    The lasso glows. "Ares."

    "-was." Diana's eyes widen slightly, her face falling. "No."
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    Sadly yes.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "A war demigoddess with self-control." I frown. "You know, she's wasted on Themyscira. Do you think-?"

    "No
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    I don't think she'd like to help you with your shit.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Not like that. I'm with Luna, and Hippolyta's doing that painfully oblivious thing with Captain Philippus. I'm talking about giving her a greater stage upon which to demonstrate her abilities. But we can discuss that later."

    Diana frowns. "Oblivious..?
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    No child wants to think of their parents sex life.

    Mr Zoat said:
    They have no love of him.
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    'for him'

    Mr Zoat said:
    Easily. They have no love of him. But that will not prevent them from ravaging this region."

    "Could you command them not to?"

    "I could issue the command. They would not obey it. They would kill me, then the commanders would fight amongst themselves for my position. And then the victor would carry on as before."
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    So even if they obey the strongest that only counts so long as they're also a mass murdering, cannibalistic rapist.

    Mr Zoat said:
    I smile brightly. "Works for me."

    Diana scowls at me. "It does not work for me.
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    Yeah, letting them continue doing as they're doing isn't a bright idea.

    Mr Zoat said:
    What we have here is a community of mass murdering cannibals.
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    Don't forget rapists, what with breeding males before killing them.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "I want to kill them because I'd like to establish a baseline of morality and under the circumstances I don't think that exterminating a culture of genocidal cannibals is a particularly unreasonable thing to do
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    He's not wrong.

    Mr Zoat said:
    The Spartans were weak. Theana is the most vicious Citizen soldier we're ever raises. Every cruel impulse embodied in a single woman."

    I grin. "Oh, a true granddaughter for Ares
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    He'd be proud that at least one of his children is following in his footsteps of being a lunatic.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "I refuse to believe that any mortal woman can be that cruel."
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    Sadly this belief doesn't hold truth.

    Mr Zoat said:
    I'm doing this. You may do what you like."
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    Letting him do what he likes isn't a smart idea.
     
    Renegade once more letting his Fatherbox programming take over.

    Too bad for him Wonder Woman is going to win...
     
    Maybe Diana can Out God Voice her? Assert her dominance on a meta-physical level?

    Also, how much does Astarte still worship Olympos? Because Diana can most likely get some gods/esses to vouch for her.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Diana stands proud. "Here or in the arena, aunt Astarte."

    "The arena. Captain Astarte to all commanders. I have a challenger."
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    I would Boom Tube Hippolita and all interested Amazons to watch.

    It will be like home coming.

    Also Ares. Because why not?

    Shame this isn't Paul. he's the one with the Pantheon on speed dial.
     
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