Doccer
Versed in the lewd.
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The grammar here is off. Specifically that second sentence. It makes this exchange confusing.
What is being said here?
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The grammar here is off. Specifically that second sentence. It makes this exchange confusing.
So even if they obey the strongest that only counts so long as they're also a mass murdering, cannibalistic rapist.
Thank you, corrected.
He's commenting on the fact that Diana assumed that he would react in certain ways and he didn't.The grammar here is off. Specifically that second sentence. It makes this exchange confusing.
What is being said here?
Ok, so he was expected to act more brutishly/violently and he didn't so she questioned if something altered his moral compass?He's commenting on the fact that Diana assumed that he would react in certain ways and he didn't.
Because that wouldn't mirror her comment.Ok, so he was expected to act more brutishly/violently and he didn't so she questioned if something altered his moral compass?
but...
What was the "I was happening to you" bit?
'I was'?
Still sounds like the grammar.
Was he saying that she didn't affect him he's trying to affect her?
The grammar here is off. Specifically that second sentence. It makes this exchange confusing.
What is being said here?
Reminds me of a quote from the Dresden files "What goes round comes around. And sometimes you get what's coming around. And sometimes you ARE what's coming around."What was the "I was happening to you" bit?
'I was'?
Still sounds like the grammar.
Was he saying that she didn't affect him he's trying to affect her?
Shame this isn't Paul. he's the one with the Pantheon on speed dial.
Yep, Astarte's having trouble believing it. Mind blown. And I don't blame her. Imagine meeting what turns out to be a Themysciran, three thousand years after you left, and light-years away from Earth. And then she claims to be your baby sister's daughter?1st September 2012
14:55 GMT
I shrug. "Well, you can't beat her up. It's-"
"Niece?"
Renegade, stop poking the already annoyed demigoddess warrior princess. The resulting dopeslap would probably put you through a wall."-quite wrong to do that to a prisoner."
Diana scowls. "That is not what I am debating."
Probably asking as much for Astarte's benefit as his own curiosity. After all, she's lived this long (albeit aided by advanced technology,) who's to say her baby sister couldn't as well?Astarte is staring at Diana in disbelief. I wonder w-? Oh, of course. She's from the Old City. Back when Amazons lived their mortal span, aged and died like normal humans. Hippolyta would have died a little under three thousand years ago-. Wouldn't she?
"Diana, is Hippolyta a demigoddess? I didn't really get a good look at her when I visited Themyscira."
Yeah, Diana. Turns out your mightiest foe is your grand-daddy."Yes. And before you ask, I do not know who my mother's father-"
The lasso glows. "Ares."
"-was." Diana's eyes widen slightly, her face falling. "No."
Meaning she was quite the war-monger in her prime. Presumably pre-retreat. Nice to now she's mellowed out over the millennia.Huh. "That would explain Astarte's divine voice. I'm a little surprised about Hippolyta, though. She doesn't seem to be the war demigoddess sort."
"'A warrior must know when to sheath their sword as well as when to draw it'. She told me that when I was a girl. I never thought it had any deeper meaning."
Let her enjoy her sort-of-retirement, Renegade."A war demigoddess with self-control." I frown. "You know, she's wasted on Themyscira. Do you think-?"
"No."
Y'know, maybe someone should nudge them together? Or at least poke Aphrodite Pandemos about it.I give her a reproachful frown. "Not like that. I'm with Luna, and Hippolyta's doing that painfully oblivious thing with Captain Philippus. I'm talking about giving her a greater stage upon which to demonstrate her abilities. But we can discuss that later."
Diana frowns. "Oblivious..? Yes. Astarte. Can you command this fleet to abandon Grayven?"
Because they've been enjoying eating porridge for however many centuries? Or is it just that you've grown accustomed to them trying to kill you and become the new leader?"Easily. They have no love of him. But that will not prevent them from ravaging this region."
"Could you command them not to?"
"I could issue the command. They would not obey it. They would kill me, then the commanders would fight amongst themselves for my position. And then the victor would carry on as before."
Well, do you have any better ideas? Because it doesn't seem like they're nice people who are going to change the way of life they've followed for at least centuries.I smile brightly. "Works for me."
Diana scowls at me. "It does not work for me."
Most of that indifference being 'Well, glad it's not us.' Yes, Earth morality does seem something of a rarityin the cosmos."Diana, I realise that you don't leave Earth all that often, but let me be very clear about this. Out here, all too often, this is what it's like. There is no universal law or accepted moral code. The Green Lantern Corps are a very small-" I hold up my right hand and hold my thumb and forefinger a small distance apart from one another. "-plaster over a ripped open ribcage. People like the Citizenry, like the psions, like the Citadel, like Apokolips, they do what they like and no one tries to stop them. World burn, and if other places hear about it it's met with profound indifference. Space is vast and full of malevolence and it's by sheer chance that the Earth hasn't been snuffed out as the planet below us has."
...Which it's worth noting, is largely what she did in the comic, from what I understand. I'll bet once she stopped checking in on them, they decided upon a new tyrant, and went right back to their old ways...I lean forward slightly, maintaining eye contact.
"The laws you're used to do not exist. The common moral standards you're used to do not exist. The fellowship between peoples you're used to does not exist. What we have here is a community of mass murdering cannibals. If you want to try to persuade them to take a course of action that doesn't result in the preponderance of them being dead? Fine. That will make them your responsibility, yours to stay with for as many years, decades, centuries even, that it takes to get them straightened out. Are you prepared to do that? Are you in for the long haul, or are you going to throw a speech at them and then leave them to it? Because I assure you that will not work."
And there's the core of the Renegade's issues with the League, isn't it? He understands that 'some people just need killing', and they don't like that attitude..."And that is why you want to kill them? Because you believe that is what it will take and don't believe that I am prepared to do what is necessary to ensure that it does not?"
"I want to kill them because I'd like to establish a baseline of morality and under the circumstances I don't think that exterminating a culture of genocidal cannibals is a particularly unreasonable thing to do. If you disagree with me then put. The. Work. In. Place your mark upon the universe and change it to better suit you. But don't assume that it'll just happen."
Heh. And I'm sure she hated every little conflict of opinion...She looks at me, frustration giving way slightly to curiosity.
"Has that happened to you?"
"I was it happening to you."
Alas, I doubt she'll put the effort in to stick around, nor let them sort it out themselves..."If you beat me in the arena, the other-" We both turn to Astarte. "-commanders might accept you. Niece." She doesn't sound like she's signing her own death warrant. Maybe she thinks that she can win? "Once they realise what you're trying to do they'll try to kill you, but they'll do it as one Citizen to another without tearing the fleet apart."
"Interesting opportunity there, Diana. Kill a quite a few people one at a time over a period of years, or let a lot kill each other over a couple of days."
Given the Citizenry tendency towards ultra-violence, that's probably considered a warm-up round."I don't believe those are the options. Can I fight to first blood?"
"No."
Which would be almost as infuriating for Diana as simply killing. She may enjoy a good fight, but not wanton hurting."Submission, then."
"Perhaps. You would have to be extremely brutal to make a commander submit to you, and if it looked like you were unwilling to kill then the others would see you as weak. I would never submit to you."
More family for the reunion!"Never?"
"Never."
I nod. "People don't rise to the top in this sort of society by doubting themselves or hesitating to use violence." Hm. "Hey, Astarte, do you have any children?"
...Yeah, that's not a good thing. If I remember right, you keep her confined for everyone else's safety."Yes. One daughter."
"Let me guess; you raised her the Spartan way and now she's some sort of crazy warrior champion."
"The Spartans were weak. Theana is the most vicious Citizen soldier we're ever raises. Every cruel impulse embodied in a single woman."
You have no idea, hon. Wait until you meet Granny Goodness and her Female Furies. (Yes, not entirely mortal, but hey...)I grin. "Oh, a true granddaughter for Ares. How about it, Diana? Do you think you can talk her down? How is reforming Ares going?"
"I refuse to believe that any mortal woman can be that cruel."
Hoo boy. This promises to be sobering for the princess...I shake my head. But, hey, at least she's committing. "If you die, I'll include that optimistic quote in your funeral oration. So we're doing this?"
"I'm doing this. You may do what you like."
Hey, at least thy can agree on something?"Frustrating as I find you sometimes, I'm no more likely to abandon you than you are to abandon me. I don't think this will work, but it would be nice if it did."
She nods.
...Just how dumb do you think they are?
True. At least she can be reasoned with. I shudder at what some of her subordinates will be like...Diana hesitates, but I just smile.
"It's not like my drones have gone anywhere." I hold out my left hand and begin fabricating a new daiklave. "Let her go. She's going to get the chance to fight you anyway. She's a psycho, not an idiot."
And watch as this turns into an endurance match as one after the other takes their shot...I deactivate the healing ray and phase the drone out as Diana steps behind her aunt and begins removing the lasso. She steps back promptly as the rope comes lose and Astarte rises to her feet, loosening the muscles in her arms in preparation for a fight.
Diana stands proud. "Here or in the arena, aunt Astarte."
"The arena. Captain Astarte to all commanders. I have a challenger."
...the rope comes loose and Astarte rises to her feet...
You're right, it can work really well.You say it's a problem. I say it just makes With This Ring have some verisimilitude with every other reboot that comic books have ever seen -- when you have the freedom to define the world, but you want to revisit a story that's already been written, tinkering with the details to make a similar end result happen while the specific facts are different is par for the course. One might even call it a genre convention, if you were being charitable. You could call it fate, if you want to be Watsonian about it.
The mark of a good writer isn't that they don't do stuff like this, but that they can tell an interesting story even though you know it's happening.
Renegade, stop poking the already annoyed demigoddess warrior princess. The resulting dopeslap would probably put you through a wall.
Probably asking as much for Astarte's benefit as his own curiosity. After all, she's lived this long (albeit aided by advanced technology,) who's to say her baby sister couldn't as well?
Meaning she was quite the war-monger in her prime. Presumably pre-retreat. Nice to now she's mellowed out over the millennia.
He would be fine with them as long as they were helping his cause, probably even offer one of them a Ring.
Yes... Yes she would...Well she may think the renegade is very dumb, and she'd be right.
No what you should be getting out if this is that if you lived on one of the hundreds of planets the citizenry visited and harvested/exterminated all life (not sure if just intelligent life, just animal life, or absolutely all life) like a wandering Tyranid 'Nom Nom' fleet, you are not entitled to any justice or righteous vengeance, because Pretty Pretty Princess Diana decided you weren't, and enforcing the death penalty on the persons who killed you, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your countrymen, your entire species, is 'wrong'.What I'm concluding from this is that either Diana is going to leave earth for centuries, or she's going to abandon the rest of the sentient universe to these guys, or she ends up going with one of Grayvauls very renegade alternatives.
usually i would never root against WW but i hope she fails to reform them so grayven can go ahead and wipe them out."The arena. Captain Astarte to all commanders. I have a challenger."
not sure if just intelligent life, just animal life, or absolutely all life
I have the list at home. Let me see if I can find it in-story...
Thanks. I checked the link, and there were 2 more older female teens who weren't in the group due to the Renegade not being able to make a version of the don't eat people medicine he made/had made for the others.'The Lad' in this case is named Paul, and renegade still can't say his name.
Just in case you or anyone else was wondering who he was.
I considered trying to sort out a camera system for Bethany and Mary, but I don't think that it would really be possible for them to learn the social interaction lessons properly that way. I've stuck them on duty monitoring my wildlife habitats, and generally doing whatever Jean wants them to do. As sexless creatures Genomorphs don't set them off, so that should be reasonably safe. Nothing else I can do that I'm not doing already. Assuming that things go well on Friday I'll ask Circe to have a go at fixing the two of them.
I'm loving that the Renegade is getting Diana in particular to face some unfortunate truths about how life is in the universe."Diana, I realise that you don't leave Earth all that often, but let me be very clear about this. Out here, all too often, this is what it's like. There is no universal law or accepted moral code. The Green Lantern Corps are a very small-" I hold up my right hand and hold my thumb and forefinger a small distance apart from one another. "-plaster over a ripped open ribcage. People like the Citizenry, like the psions, like the Citadel, like Apokolips, they do what they like and no one tries to stop them. Worlds burn, and if other places hear about it it's met with profound indifference. Space is vast and full of malevolence and it's by sheer chance that the Earth hasn't been snuffed out as the planet below us has."
I lean forward slightly, maintaining eye contact.
"The laws you're used to do not exist. The common moral standards you're used to do not exist. The fellowship between peoples you're used to does not exist. What we have here is a community of mass murdering cannibals. If you want to try to persuade them to take a course of action that doesn't result in the preponderance of them being dead? Fine. That will make them your responsibility, yours to stay with for as many years, decades, centuries even, that it takes to get them straightened out. Are you prepared to do that? Are you in for the long haul, or are you going to throw a speech at them and then leave them to it? Because I assure you that will not work."
"And that is why you want to kill them? Because you believe that is what it will take and don't believe that I am prepared to do what is necessary to ensure that it does not?"
"I want to kill them because I'd like to establish a baseline of morality and under the circumstances I don't think that exterminating a culture of genocidal cannibals is a particularly unreasonable thing to do. If you disagree with me then put. The. Work. In. Place your mark upon the universe and change it to better suit you. But don't assume that it'll just happen."
She looks at me, frustration giving way slightly to curiosity.
"Has that happened to you?"
"I was it happening to you."
Again, Diana demonstrates both her idealism and naivete. Is this just her, or would her sisters on Themyscira feel the same as she does? Or maybe they'd agree with the Renegade and just kill them all because they're irredeemable?I nod. "People don't rise to the top in this sort of society by doubting themselves or hesitating to use violence." Hm. "Hey, Astarte, do you have any children?"
"Yes. One daughter."
"Let me guess; you raised her the Spartan way and now she's some sort of crazy warrior champion."
"The Spartans were weak. Theana is the most vicious Citizen soldier we've ever raised. Every cruel impulse embodied in a single woman."
I grin. "Oh, a true granddaughter for Ares. How about it, Diana? Do you think you can talk her down? How is reforming Ares going?"
"I refuse to believe that any mortal woman can be that cruel."
I shake my head. But, hey, at least she's committing. "If you die, I'll include that optimistic quote in your funeral oration. So we're doing this?"
No. Diana would not strike an ally.Renegade, stop poking the already annoyed demigoddess warrior princess. The resulting dopeslap would probably put you through a wall.
No, but her mother was.Meaning she was quite the war-monger in her prime. Presumably pre-retreat. Nice to now she's mellowed out over the millennia.
Thank you, corrected.
Again, Diana demonstrates both her idealism and naivete. Is this just her, or would her sisters on Themyscira feel the same as she does? Or maybe they'd agree with the Renegade and just kill them all because they're irredeemable?
I kinda hope that Diana loses, but proves her own point by getting at least a few to change their ways. Not a lot, but enough to at least prove that they are not all completely remorseless monsters.
But why even eat people? Isn't that the most inefficient method of sustainance ever?
How could Wonder Woman do this… I vote for "cryogenically freeze all of these psychos until the rest of the universe forgets about them and their sins." Don't unfreeze them until you have something like Ghost Rider's penance stare, a therapy/behavioral bootcamp plan prepped down to the second, and a bunch of oaths prepared that will see justice done to their souls should they breach their rehabilitation contracts sworn before Gaia.What I'm concluding from this is that either Diana is going to leave earth for centuries, or she's going to abandon the rest of the sentient universe to these guys, or she ends up going with one of Grayvauls very renegade alternatives.
I'm surprised that hasn't been repurposed for a Worm fanfic. Soulless behavior.Largely because Astarte is cray-cray.
She locked her daughter in with a bunch of other kids when she was two.
She told them that every day they'd slide in enough food to feed all of them but one- If a child didn't die, then no food that day.
They didn't unlock the door until Theana was the last child alive.
Theana had formed a gang of the toddlers, and then when they were the only ones left she began killing her own subordinates.
But why even eat people? Isn't that the most inefficient method of sustainance ever?
Largely because Astarte is cray-cray.
She locked her daughter in with a bunch of other kids when she was two.
She told them that every day they'd slide in enough food to feed all of them but one- If a child didn't die, then no food that day.
They didn't unlock the door until Theana was the last child alive.
Theana had formed a gang of the toddlers, and then when they were the only ones left she began killing her own subordinates.
I'm surprised that hasn't been repurposed for a Worm fanfic. Soulless behavior.
He'd be proud that at least one of his children is following in his footsteps of being a lunatic.
Even DC Ares admits that a War of total extermination is bad, sure he would get a short power boost but if the enemy is completely exterminated that means no more wars eventually.
No, they're oblivious.