With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Maybe? I couldn't find it when I did a search.

Ah, damn it.

Give me a few hours.

Well, I guess my usual post'll have to wait till then. See you in the morning, my time.

I'll still throw my original version up here:

Mr Zoat said:
11th September 2012
21:57 GMT

Waving the cheerful-looking Sassy Saddles goodbye, Rarity walks out of her Canterlot fancy shop, sees me waiting and manages not to sigh.

"So?"

"She knows somepony she thinks will be suitable. Naturally, I will need to check the quality of their work to make certain that they're up to my standard, but we both think that this will work."

So, it'll work out well. And you were concerned? Seriously, Earth fashion has been doing this sort of thing for years. Perhaps, just maybe, Grayven might know what he's talking about, hmm?

I nod and fall in alongside her as she trots down the street. Canterlot streets are curious. Despite not having motor vehicles they are clearly divided into pavements and roads, and far wider than the relatively few carts now in evidence now require. Maybe things get very busy during the early hours of the morning?

Forward planning back in the day? I can't imagine the designers of Canterlot wouldn't have wanted to ensure they wouldn't have to remodel the streets at some point...

"Glad to hear it. So… We good?"

"We are average. I have no greater fondness for you than I do somepony I have never met."

Your indifference fills me with... Meh.

I nod. "I'll take it. How are things with the Diamond Dogs?"

Rarity lets out a quiet throat-clearing noise.

Heh, she was hoping he'd have forgotten about that, wasn't she?

"We have… An arrangement. They're willing to trade tools and fresh food for a portion of their gem stones, and I take the time to guide them to the best quality deposits when I visit."

"You see? Now you can get what you need for your work without theft or child labour!"

And the Dogs get fresh tools and good food regularly. Win-win all round.

"…serve to keep us divided, unable…"

Of course, I… Rather imagine that Spike would prefer it the other way around.

Yes, but he's old enough that he's starting to think with his little head more often...

She cough-throat clears, then raises her right forehoof to her mouth for a moment before lowering it back to the pavement.

"Yes. Well. I'm sure that we've both learned something valuable from the experience."

Like 'Don't make judgements based on first impressions'? I seem to recall you weren't particularly impressed with Grayven back then...

"I think I'll quit while I'm all square."

"…free from the tyranny of…"

"So you have learned something."

Yes, folks, it is possible. ...And what the devil is that background chatter? It sounds... Heretical.

"Ah… Could be. You want me to open a boom tube back to Ponyville?"

"I think that I will take a little time to peruse the boutiques of Canterlot. Competitor research, as it were."

And I rather expect she's not a fan of the thundering comings and goings of a Boom Tube.

"Fine with me. You going to make your own way back, or do you need me to hang around?"

"I'm.. perfectly…" Rarity looks past me at some sort of pony street preacher who is being widely ignored by the few passers-by, and gives her a slight frown before returning her attention to me. "Perfectly able to locate the station without you."

Aw, not wanting a bit of prestige being seen walking about with a handsome Alicorn? Then again, Luna might get a little jealous.

"No fur off my nose. Just thought you might appreciate the faster journey. Guess I'll see you later, then."

"I suppose that it's possible." She looks me over, then turns and trots towards… Another clothing shop.

Though the longer, the better in 'long time, no see' in her opinion, I bet.

Meh.

I'm getting a few stares, but it looks like the pony reaction to crazy street preachers is the same as the human reaction: head down and walk past them. As a result, no one is stopping to look at the giant alicorn. Including the crazy street preacher, who's so far into her spiel that I'm not even sure if she's aware of her surroundings.

Just make sure she isn't frothing at the mouth. That could be bad.

Ah, okay. No much going on back on Earth that needs my attention, Vega's settling down nicely, I've returned my relations with the Bearerherd to neutral and Luna's been flicking her tail in what I think is meant to be a suggestive way at me lately. No need to go home just yet.

"…experience true equality!"

You know what? I'm going to see what that's all about.

Ah, Random Encounters. Sounds like Grayven just rolled the d100 and got 99.

I amble in the direction of the mare now taking a moment to breathe, and slowly becoming aware of exactly how much attention the locals are paying her. Her muzzle sets in a discordant protosnarl as she stares after a nearby couple, who spot her expression and hurry away a little faster.

"Hey."

Yes, my dear, scaring away possible recruits is possibly not the best idea.

She turns her face towards me, snarl vanishing as she fixes her expression into 'politely persuasive' for a moment before realising what I am and blinking in confusion. But the sales script has already been activated.

"Hello, sir! Have you come to hear how all ponies can be truly equal?"

...Wait, I recognise that philosophical bent...

"I was wondering what this was about. Pretty sure all citizens have equality under the law."

"'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread'. But is that really all we can hope for?"

...I know most people would be pretty happy with that. And I doubt there are any homeless ponies around Canterlot.

Probably-crazy pony has a pale lilac pelt and a purple mane, with a cutie mark of an equals sign. Explains that, then.

"Probably. Different ponies have different abilities and desires, so there are always going to be differences."

Yep, that's Starlight Glimmer. Either someone forgot they've already met, or the Renegade's memory is still a bit swiss cheesy after his little close encounter with his counterpart.

"But what if they didn't."

"Ah… In… What sense?"

...No wonder people were looking at her as if she's a little cracked...

"What if all ponies had the same abilities?"

"I don't think that's possible. I mean, if someone spends time working on developing their skills at something then they're going to get better at it. And it's just inefficient to constantly switch jobs."

Yeas, the old 'Jack of all trades, master of none' dilemma. Sometimes, you need someone very good at what they do (even if what they do isn't pretty, huh, Logan?)

"But that presupposes that anypony can get as good at another job as another pony. And as long as we have cutie marks, that will never be true."

I raise my eyebrows. "Oh?"

"Yes." Her grin is more than a little manic. "Think about it. A pony with a cutie mark in… I don't know, snowboarding, will have a greater understanding of snowboarding than anypony else, no matter how experienced they are! Eventually they'll get to the point where they can't have a meaningful conversation with anypony who doesn't have that mark about it. And many ponies make their special talent the centre of their lives."

Or at least make use of it in their day job, eh, Rarity?

"Ok-."

She nods enthusiastically. "And that's why we have to abolish them."

...And here's where it gets double-heretical.

"Abolish them?"

"Yes."

"You know, I've had this theory that they're actually parasites, drawn to the pony body when they discover their special talents."

Please, don't encourage the crazy lady, Grayven...

"R-really?" She blinks, then shifts back into salespony mode. "I mean, great! And not at all crazy!"

"Right." I nod. "Glad you see it that way. What is your proposed fix?"

"I was able to find a wand that lets me remove cutie marks and place them in crystal prisons, where they can't separate us from our fellow ponies any longer!"

...A Wand, yes... I can jsut see Grayven asking to see it, only to discover 'oops, fake!'

I nod. "Neat. And then you could network them."

Another blink. "Network them?"

ah, a concept Ponies wouldn't quite have an equivalent for... Not in the way Grayven's using it, anyway.

"Sure. Like… Each knot is a special talent, and each strand of rope is a connection from one pony to another. You could give everyone access to everyone else's special talents. That way, anyone can step into anyone else's role without any loss of efficiency."

She tilts her head a little to the left, frowning. "I.. don't…"

Uh, oh. I can already see the ideas forming...

"Once you've extracted the special talent, you could create an entire library of special talents. Let ponies swap talents in and out, or… Allow them to connect to the entire group of marks. Let them draw on it, or… Maybe even draw on all of them at once so that every pony has every talent."

"That…" Her eyes widen. "That's brilliant!"

...To be fair, she could probably manage it. Though I wouldn't want to see the mistakes made along the way.

"Well, you know, alicorns are the most equal of ponies, being equally earth pony, pegasus pony and unicorn pony. Why don't I introduce you to-?"

There's a teal flash, and she's gone.

Well, Season Five is going to be off to an extra-tough start for the Mane Six, it seems, if she can pull it off.

Huh.

What a strange pony.

...I'm guessing Grayven had not seen Season Five before he got inserted ...

Ah, the joy of random encounters. Sometimes you can head off trouble before it starts... Other times, you inadvertantly set the next encounter to hard mode. Still, at least Grayven isn't getting hostility from the Mane Six now, just in case he needs another dose of Harmony if or when Grayven-16 raises his mulleted head.

Vaermina · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"That…" Her eyes widen. "That's brilliant!"

"Well, you know, alicorns are the most equal of ponies, being equally earth pony, pegasus pony and unicorn pony. Why don't I introduce you to-?"

There's a teal flash, and she's gone.

Huh.

What a strange pony.

Luna is going to ban you from talking to other pony's after this...

Darko · Oct 27, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
So, it'll work out well. And you were concerned? Seriously, Earth fashion has been doing this sort of thing for years. Perhaps, just maybe, Grayven might know what he's talking about, hmm?

I'm going to go with no.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Like 'Don't make judgements based on first impressions'? I seem to recall you weren't particularly impressed with Grayven back then...

But that is a valid judgment of his character.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And I rather expect she's not a fan of the thundering comings and goings of a Boom Tube

It's not the most elegant thing.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Aw, not wanting a bit of prestige being seen walking about with a handsome Alicorn? Then again, Luna might get a little jealous.

Also Rarity may get annoyed at being asked how she scored such a high match, while she herself knows that renegade is an asshole.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, my dear, scaring away possible recruits is possibly not the best idea.

I doubt crazy street preachers have the best ideas.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Please, don't encourage the crazy lady, Grayven...

You know full well that he's going to encourage her.

Have you learned nothing of his character?

Chojin Patriarch said:
To be fair, she could probably manage it. Though I wouldn't want to see the mistakes made along the way.

Like every single pony losing their cutie marks and not being able to access them again, which could lead to dangerous situations where they need them, like a doctor losing his cutie mark connected to healing and being unable to heal any of his patients.

Chojin Patriarch said:
.I'm guessing Grayven had not seen Season Five before he got inserted ...

Even if he did he may have forgotten about it, what with the centuries in Sheeda land and the fact that he may not be renegade but Actually Grayven who has his memories and had some personality traits augmented by Artemis.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Still, at least Grayven isn't getting hostility from the Mane Six now, just in case he needs another dose of Harmony if or when Grayven-16 raises his mulleted head.

But he may gain hostility later on.

Khornelius · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Maybe? I couldn't find it when I did a search.

Ah, damn it.

Give me a few hours.

Thank you, corrected.

This is completely understandable, Mr. Zoat. With a story as expansive as your small details can slip through the cracks. Even after rereading the story I still sometimes miss chapters I remember reading on a previous attempt.

I still can't find the chapter where Marvel Paul meets Hela. I've somehow read every other chapter of that side story but not that one.

Darko · Oct 27, 2021

Khornelius said:
This is completely understandable, Mr. Zoat. With a story as expansive as your small details can slip through the cracks. Even after rereading the story I still sometimes miss chapters I remember reading on a previous attempt.

I still can't find the chapter where Marvel Paul meets Hela. I've somehow read every other chapter of that side story but not that one.

That's because it wasn't technically written.

I mean it was written but it wasn't a chapter, just a small conversation where Paul makes a deal with her.

Though if you're interested then go to the first page and you'll see a box that has omakes written in it.

Click on part 1 and it will take you to spacebattles where you can find the link to that chapter.

It's called 'Paul makes a deal'.

Handlewithcare · Oct 27, 2021

WE ARE THE GLIMMER.

YOUR SPECIAL TALENT WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN.

YOUR CULTURE WILL ADEPT FOR TRUE EQUALITY.

RESISTANCE, IS FUTILE.

Mr Zoat · Oct 27, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, Season Five is going to be off to an extra-tough start for the Mane Six, it seems, if she can pull it off.

Not necessarily. Remember, everyone in her village was a volunteer. As stated, they could go and look at their cutie marks whenever they wanted. Starlight only committed a crime when she took the Bearerherd's marks without their permission and tried to brainwash them. If they went to the village and found ponies swapping marks at will... Well, why would the map even send them there?

Bramble Thorn · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
11th September 2012
21:57 GMT

Waving the cheerful-looking Sassy Saddles goodbye, Rarity walks out of her Canterlot fancy shop, sees me waiting and manages not to sigh.

"So?"

"She knows somepony she thinks will be suitable. Naturally, I will need to check the quality of their work to make certain that they're up to my standard, but we both think that this will work."

I nod and fall in alongside her as she trots down the street. Canterlot streets are curious. Despite not having motor vehicles they are clearly divided into pavements and roads, and far wider than the relatively few carts now in evidence require. Maybe things get very busy during the early hours of the morning?

"Glad to hear it. So… We good?"

"We are average. I have no greater fondness for you than I do somepony I have never met."

I nod. "I'll take it. How are things with the Diamond Dogs?"

Rarity lets out a quiet throat-clearing noise.

"We have… An arrangement. They're willing to trade tools and fresh food for a portion of their gem stones, and I take the time to guide them to the best quality deposits when I visit."

"You see? Now you can get what you need for your work without theft or child labour!"

"…serve to keep us divided, unable…"

Of course, I… Rather imagine that Spike would prefer it the other way around.

She cough-throat clears, then raises her right forehoof to her mouth for a moment before lowering it back to the pavement.

"Yes. Well. I'm sure that we've both learned something valuable from the experience."

"I think I'll quit while I'm all square."

"…free from the tyranny of…"

"So you have learned something."

"Ah… Could be. You want me to open a boom tube back to Ponyville?"

"I think that I will take a little time to peruse the boutiques of Canterlot. Competitor research, as it were."

"Fine with me. You going to make your own way back, or do you need me to hang around?"

"I'm.. perfectly…" Rarity looks past me at some sort of pony street preacher who is being widely ignored by the few passers-by, and gives her a slight frown before returning her attention to me. "Perfectly able to locate the station without you."

"No fur off my nose. Just thought you might appreciate the faster journey. Guess I'll see you later, then."

"I suppose that it's possible." She looks me over, then turns and trots towards… Another clothing shop.

Meh.

I'm getting a few stares, but it looks like the pony reaction to crazy street preachers is the same as the human reaction: head down and walk past them. As a result, no one is stopping to look at the giant alicorn. Including the crazy street preacher, who's so far into her spiel that I'm not even sure if she's aware of her surroundings.

Ah, okay. Not much going on back on Earth that needs my attention, Vega's settling down nicely, I've returned my relations with the Bearerherd to neutral and Luna's been flicking her tail in what I think is meant to be a suggestive way at me lately. No need to go home just yet.

"…experience true equality!"

You know what? I'm going to see what that's all about.

I amble in the direction of the mare now taking a moment to breathe, and slowly becoming aware of exactly how much attention the locals are paying her. Her muzzle sets in a discordant protosnarl as she stares after a nearby couple, who spot her expression and hurry away a little faster.

"Hey."

She turns her face towards me, snarl vanishing as she fixes her expression into 'politely persuasive' for a moment before realising what I am and blinking in confusion. But the sales script has already been activated.

"Hello, sir! Have you come to hear how all ponies can be truly equal?"

"I was wondering what this was about. Pretty sure all citizens have equality under the law."

"'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread'. But is that really all we can hope for?"

Probably-crazy pony has a pale lilac pelt and a purple mane, with a cutie mark of an equals sign. Explains that, then.

"Probably. Different ponies have different abilities and desires, so there are always going to be differences."

"But what if they didn't."

"Ah… In… What sense?"

"What if all ponies had the same abilities?"

"I don't think that's possible. I mean, if someone spends time working on developing their skills at something then they're going to get better at it. And it's just inefficient to constantly switch jobs."

"But that presupposes that anypony can get as good at another job as another pony. And as long as we have cutie marks, that will never be true."

I raise my eyebrows. "Oh?"

"Yes." Her grin is more than a little manic. "Think about it. A pony with a cutie mark in… I don't know, snowboarding, will have a greater understanding of snowboarding than anypony else, no matter how experienced they are! Eventually they'll get to the point where they can't have a meaningful conversation with anypony who doesn't have that mark about it. Any many ponies make their special talent the centre of their lives."

"Ok-."

She nods enthusiastically. "And that's why we have to abolish them."

"Abolish them?"

"Yes."

"You know, I've had this theory that they're actually parasites, drawn to the pony body when they discover their special talents."

"R-really?" She blinks, then shifts back into salespony mode. "I mean, great! And not at all crazy!"

"Right." I nod. "Glad you see it that way. What is your proposed fix?"

"I was able to find a wand that lets me remove cutie marks and place them in crystal prisons, where they can't separate us from our fellow ponies any longer!"

I nod. "Neat. And then you could network them."

Another blink. "Network them?"

"Sure. Like… Each knot is a special talent, and each strand of rope is a connection from one pony to another. You could give everyone access to everyone else's special talents. That way, anyone can step into anyone else's role without any loss of efficiency."

She tilts her head a little to the left, frowning. "I.. don't…"

"Once you've extracted the special talent, you could create an entire library of special talents. Let ponies swap talents in and out, or… Allow them to connect to the entire group of marks. Let them draw on it, or… Maybe even draw on all of them at once so that every pony has every talent."

"That…" Her eyes widen. "That's brilliant!"

"Well, you know, alicorns are the most equal of ponies, being equally earth pony, pegasus pony and unicorn pony. Why don't I introduce you to-?"

There's a teal flash, and she's gone.

Huh.

What a strange pony.

I'm just going to copy the original post here, on account of it possibly not existing in a bit on account of its very existence contradicting happenings in a previous installment.

Old Knife · Oct 27, 2021

The real chapter was in spoilers.

RichardWhereat · Oct 27, 2021

Khornelius said:
This is completely understandable, Mr. Zoat. With a story as expansive as your small details can slip through the cracks. Even after rereading the story I still sometimes miss chapters I remember reading on a previous attempt.

I still can't find the chapter where Marvel Paul meets Hela. I've somehow read every other chapter of that side story but not that one.

Aye. That's why a wiki with links to character arcs would be great.

Ngamer11 · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
11th September 2012
21:57 GMT

Waving the cheerful-looking Sassy Saddles goodbye, Rarity walks out of her Canterlot fancy shop, sees me waiting and manages not to sigh.

"So?"

"She knows somepony she thinks will be suitable. Naturally, I will need to check the quality of their work to make certain that they're up to my standard, but we both think that this will work."

I nod and fall in alongside her as she trots down the street. Canterlot streets are curious. Despite not having motor vehicles they are clearly divided into pavements and roads, and far wider than the relatively few carts now in evidence require. Maybe things get very busy during the early hours of the morning?

"Glad to hear it. So… We good?"

"We are average. I have no greater fondness for you than I do somepony I have never met."

I nod. "I'll take it. How are things with the Diamond Dogs?"

Rarity lets out a quiet throat-clearing noise.

"We have… An arrangement. They're willing to trade tools and fresh food for a portion of their gem stones, and I take the time to guide them to the best quality deposits when I visit."

"You see? Now you can get what you need for your work without theft or child labour!"

"…serve to keep us divided, unable…"

Of course, I… Rather imagine that Spike would prefer it the other way around.

She cough-throat clears, then raises her right forehoof to her mouth for a moment before lowering it back to the pavement.

"Yes. Well. I'm sure that we've both learned something valuable from the experience."

"I think I'll quit while I'm all square."

"…free from the tyranny of…"

"So you have learned something."

"Ah… Could be. You want me to open a boom tube back to Ponyville?"

"I think that I will take a little time to peruse the boutiques of Canterlot. Competitor research, as it were."

"Fine with me. You going to make your own way back, or do you need me to hang around?"

"I'm.. perfectly…" Rarity looks past me at some sort of pony street preacher who is being widely ignored by the few passers-by, and gives her a slight frown before returning her attention to me. "Perfectly able to locate the station without you."

"No fur off my nose. Just thought you might appreciate the faster journey. Guess I'll see you later, then."

"I suppose that it's possible." She looks me over, then turns and trots towards… Another clothing shop.

Meh.

I'm getting a few stares, but it looks like the pony reaction to crazy street preachers is the same as the human reaction: head down and walk past them. As a result, no one is stopping to look at the giant alicorn. Including the crazy street preacher, who's so far into her spiel that I'm not even sure if she's aware of her surroundings.

Ah, okay. Not much going on back on Earth that needs my attention, Vega's settling down nicely, I've returned my relations with the Bearerherd to neutral and Luna's been flicking her tail in what I think is meant to be a suggestive way at me lately. No need to go home just yet.

"…experience true equality!"

You know what? I'm going to see what that's all about.

I amble in the direction of the mare now taking a moment to breathe, and slowly becoming aware of exactly how much attention the locals are paying her. Her muzzle sets in a discordant protosnarl as she stares after a nearby couple, who spot her expression and hurry away a little faster.

"Hey."

She turns her face towards me, snarl vanishing as she fixes her expression into 'politely persuasive' for a moment before realising what I am and blinking in confusion. But the sales script has already been activated.

"Hello, sir! Have you come to hear how all ponies can be truly equal?"

"I was wondering what this was about. Pretty sure all citizens have equality under the law."

"'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread'. But is that really all we can hope for?"

Probably-crazy pony has a pale lilac pelt and a purple mane, with a cutie mark of an equals sign. Explains that, then.

"Probably. Different ponies have different abilities and desires, so there are always going to be differences."

"But what if they didn't."

"Ah… In… What sense?"

"What if all ponies had the same abilities?"

"I don't think that's possible. I mean, if someone spends time working on developing their skills at something then they're going to get better at it. And it's just inefficient to constantly switch jobs."

"But that presupposes that anypony can get as good at another job as another pony. And as long as we have cutie marks, that will never be true."

I raise my eyebrows. "Oh?"

"Yes." Her grin is more than a little manic. "Think about it. A pony with a cutie mark in… I don't know, snowboarding, will have a greater understanding of snowboarding than anypony else, no matter how experienced they are! Eventually they'll get to the point where they can't have a meaningful conversation with anypony who doesn't have that mark about it. Any many ponies make their special talent the centre of their lives."

"Ok-."

She nods enthusiastically. "And that's why we have to abolish them."

"Abolish them?"

"Yes."

"You know, I've had this theory that they're actually parasites, drawn to the pony body when they discover their special talents."

"R-really?" She blinks, then shifts back into salespony mode. "I mean, great! And not at all crazy!"

"Right." I nod. "Glad you see it that way. What is your proposed fix?"

"I was able to find a wand that lets me remove cutie marks and place them in crystal prisons, where they can't separate us from our fellow ponies any longer!"

I nod. "Neat. And then you could network them."

Another blink. "Network them?"

"Sure. Like… Each knot is a special talent, and each strand of rope is a connection from one pony to another. You could give everyone access to everyone else's special talents. That way, anyone can step into anyone else's role without any loss of efficiency."

She tilts her head a little to the left, frowning. "I.. don't…"

"Once you've extracted the special talent, you could create an entire library of special talents. Let ponies swap talents in and out, or… Allow them to connect to the entire group of marks. Let them draw on it, or… Maybe even draw on all of them at once so that every pony has every talent."

"That…" Her eyes widen. "That's brilliant!"

"Well, you know, alicorns are the most equal of ponies, being equally earth pony, pegasus pony and unicorn pony. Why don't I introduce you to-?"

There's a teal flash, and she's gone.

Huh.

What a strange pony.

Just to confirm, this is the new chapter now? Or will this be edited further?

The Froggy Ninja · Oct 27, 2021

Come to think of it, I don't think we ever followed up on Luna's conversation with Starlight and Grayven's with Discord.

Doccer · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Though rainbows are pretty unequal."

"How are rainbows-?" She inhales sharply. "No, We will not stick our forehoof in that rabbit hole. Why is she so ill-disposed to the School?"

How are rainbows unequal?

And what was that teal flash Starlight Glimmer did before disappearing? Can she teleport?

Mr Zoat · Oct 27, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
Just to confirm, this is the new chapter now? Or will this be edited further?

I will be replacing it. If the muses are with me, inside the next half hour.

Doccer said:
And what was that teal flash Starlight Glimmer did before disappearing? Can she teleport?

Yes. Starlight is the most skilled magic user we see in the series.

Pinklestia · Oct 27, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
WE ARE THE GLIMMER.

YOUR SPECIAL TALENT WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN.

YOUR CULTURE WILL ADEPT FOR TRUE EQUALITY.

RESISTANCE, IS FUTILE.

Been done.

Basically an SI, in a non canon homake for Crystal Synergy ended in one of the bad futures caused by the Twilight and Twilight recolor messing up with time. Said SI then used their special talent of Synergy (basically teamwork) to force ponies to work together then everyone got kind of Discorded becoming a hive mind of ponies that CAN USE ANY TALENT THE INDIVIDUAL PONIES OF THE HIVE HAVE but is extremely racist against non ponies... and also quite violent so the Everfree forest is basically getting most of their species killed.

But as the entire world is a deadworld cause bad future is the best option they have.

Handlewithcare · Oct 27, 2021

Pinklestia said:
snip.

Oooooo, link please?

Dappershire · Oct 27, 2021

Doccer said:
How are rainbows unequal?

Well, obviously Rainbows by default give more time and effort towards the Red light spectrum, then say Indigo or Violet. For a Lantern, Rainbows are heavily weighted towards Rage, Avarice, Fear. Green, like usual, is the neutral middle ground, for those ~~emotionally stunted~~ powerful in Will; while Hope, Compassion, and especially Love getting the short end of the arc.

Sockmonkey · Oct 27, 2021

Darko said:
He did spend centuries in Sheeda land and his memory wasn't that good, so it's possible that he forgot.

Makes sense to me.

Mr Zoat said:
I will be replacing it. If the muses are with me, inside the next half hour.

You could just stick in a line about her being vaguely familiar to remind the reader that he's been away from Equestria for years.

Darko · Oct 27, 2021

Sockmonkey said:
You could just stick in a line about her being vaguely familiar to remind the reader that he's been away from Equestria for years.

Yes, but he'd have to change her dialogue too since she also met him before and she hasn't shown any indication of knowing who he is in this chapter.

Doccer · Oct 27, 2021

Sockmonkey said:
You could just stick in a line about her being vaguely familiar to remind the reader that he's been away from Equestria for years.

Darko said:
Yes, but he'd have to change her dialogue too since she also met him before and she hasn't shown any indication of knowing who he is in this chapter.

Then there's the question of whether or not she's already taken up his idea if linking all the Cutie Marks with all the ponies or if Luna hired her or not.

WereDragon · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Not necessarily. Remember, everyone in her village was a volunteer. As stated, they could go and look at their cutie marks whenever they wanted. Starlight only committed a crime when she took the Bearerherd's marks without their permission and tried to brainwash them. If they went to the village and found ponies swapping marks at will... Well, why would the map even send them there?

While indoctrination-based brainwashing isn't illegal as such, it is generally considered morally wrong. Even when you convince people to volunteer for it.

Also I'm pretty sure 'swapping' cutie marks would be a new level of hell for Glimmer. All it would do is cause endless arguments over who gets to use the 'good' cutie marks.

Pinklestia · Oct 27, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
Oooooo, link please?

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/distorted-resonance-mlp-fim-si.371092/

One of the posts there, is not even threadmarked.

Chojin Patriarch · Oct 27, 2021

Since the revisions are somewhat piecemeal, my comments may as well go the same way.

Mr Zoat said:
"You see? Now you can get what you need for your work without theft or child labour!"

"…a-MAZ-ing new development in biothaumaturgy…"

Of course, I… Rather imagine that Spike would prefer it the other way around.

Well, that's a good start. Less of Starlight's rather controversial views (by pony standards.) If anything, it sounds like she's been showing off the... Staff of Sameness (What a bland name... How appropriate.) Or at least its effects.

"I think I'll quit while I'm all square."

"…seen roller-skates in his life …"

"So you have learned something."

Sounds like the demonstration involves having someone receive a cutie mark for something completely new to them. That would be quite the effective way of showing it off...

I'm getting a few stares, but it looks like the pony reaction to uncomfortably over-familiar hawkers is the same as the human reaction: head down and walk past them. As a result, no one is stopping to look at the giant alicorn. Including the hawkers themselves, and the awkward-looking grey stallion on roller-skates standing between them.

Oh, there's a couple of familiar faces. Probably not the best choice to be presenting the radical idea of swapping Cutie Marks, but, hey, they can sell damn near anything...

"…formerly considered impossible!"

You know what? I'm going to see what that's all about.

I amble in the direction of the lanky stallions who are now giving their audience a few moments to breathe.

Yeah, that seems to be their usual method of selling things. Get them curious with antics, then dazzle them with style. And then: "No time to think! Look how amazing this is! Don't you want some?"

Well, that fit a bit better. I presume we'll be getting more Grayven, perhaps with him having a laugh or two at their antics, and a reunion of sorts with Starlight Glimmer. I wonder if she's actually present, or if she's merely paying the Brothers to... Publicise her town? Bet it looks very different, after Grayven gave her the idea he did...

Vaermina · Oct 27, 2021

I look forward to Grayven practicing what he preaches and removing his own Cutie Mark.

Mr Zoat · Oct 27, 2021

Thank you, Chojin Patriarch, but it's changed again. I initially thought of using them, but at this point in her life Starlight Glimmer wouldn't tolerate their antics.

Damian45 · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Not necessarily. Remember, everyone in her village was a volunteer. As stated, they could go and look at their cutie marks whenever they wanted. Starlight only committed a crime when she took the Bearerherd's marks without their permission and tried to brainwash them. If they went to the village and found ponies swapping marks at will... Well, why would the map even send them there?

Where is it said that they are all volunteers? Or they could just go into the vault? Because thats the sort of thinking that a cult leader would harshly punish, for not aligning with her 'cutie marks are evil' delusion. One doesn't have a brainwashing room without intending to use it, and I'll bet that she made going in there mandatory for everyone in her cult.

Remember, before the writers tried to make her the main character by narratively displacing Twilight and shilling the shit out of her, she was an awful, hateful hypocrite, like most cult leaders. One doesn't become a person who smiles like a fucking robot without having suffered behavioral conditioning, and with one exception, every single member of Our Town was smiling like that.

Really, I don't know why people keep trying to say that she's reasonable in any way, because she isn't. Most of the logical arguments against cutie marks in this story are coming from Graven, and I still think she was far, far to reasonable about having her beliefs challenged.

And if she wasn't doing anything wrong...well, as you said: why did the map send them there in the first place? Because what she was doing was fundamentally evil.

Mr Zoat · Oct 27, 2021

Damian45 said:
Where is it said that they are all volunteers? Or they could just go into the vault? Because thats the sort of thinking that a cult leader would harshly punish, for not aligning with her 'cutie marks are evil' delusion. One doesn't have a brainwashing room without intending to use it, and I'll bet that she made going in there mandatory for everyone in her cult.

Punish... How? While she was perfectly capable of mind control, every member of her cult rebelled at the end.

Remember, before the writers tried to make her the main character by narratively displacing Twilight and shilling the shit out of her, she was an awful, hateful hypocrite, like most cult leaders. One doesn't become a person who smiles like a fucking robot without having suffered behavioral conditioning, and with one exception, every single member of Our Town was smiling like that.

Really, I don't know why people keep trying to say that she's reasonable in any way, because she isn't. Most of the logical arguments against cutie marks in this story are coming from Graven, and I still think she was far, far to reasonable about having her beliefs challenged.

Hey, no one's saying she isn't a mad mare.

And if she wasn't doing anything wrong...well, as you said: why did the map send them there in the first place? Because what she was doing was fundamentally evil.

No, I said that she wasn't doing anything criminal. If a village full of ponies want to do what a crazy mare says, that's not illegal.

Also, don't rely on giant pieces of crystal for your moral guidance. Remember how it didn't give a fig about Chrysalis?

Or this:

Chojin Patriarch · Oct 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, Chojin Patriarch, but it's changed again. I initially thought of using them, but at this point in her life Starlight Glimmer wouldn't tolerate their antics.

<headdesk> Welp, time for another look. Figures I'd jump the gun. Third time's the charm, eh?

Mr Zoat said:
11th September 2012
21:57 GMT

Waving the cheerful-looking Sassy Saddles goodbye, Rarity walks out of her Canterlot fancy shop, sees me waiting and manages not to sigh.

"So?"

"She knows somepony she thinks will be suitable. Naturally, I will need to check the quality of their work to make certain that they're up to my standard, but we both think that this will work."

I nod and fall in alongside her as she trots down the street. Canterlot streets are curious. Despite not having motor vehicles they are clearly divided into pavements and roads, and far wider than the relatively few carts now in evidence require. Maybe things get very busy during the early hours of the morning?

"Glad to hear it. So… We good?"

"We are average. I have no greater fondness for you than I do somepony I have never met."

I nod. "I'll take it. How are things with the Diamond Dogs?"

Rarity lets out a quiet throat-clearing noise.

"We have… An arrangement. They're willing to trade tools and fresh food for a portion of their gem stones, and I take the time to guide them to the best quality deposits when I visit."

"You see? Now you can get what you need for your work without theft or child labour!"

Well, this part is unchanged, at least. Man, when was the last time we saw revisions like this? Mandated's Time-travel eff-ery? Though to be fair, even our dear writer is only human.

"…serve to keep us divided, unable…"

Of course, I… Rather imagine that Spike would prefer it the other way around.

And back to Starlight's demagoguery... Still, I rather suspect the edges of her philosophy have changed, given her last meeting with our boy Renegade.

She cough-throat clears, then raises her right forehoof to her mouth for a moment before lowering it back to the pavement.

"Yes. Well. I'm sure that we've both learned something valuable from the experience."

"I think I'll quit while I'm all square."

If nothing else, Grayven learnt a bit about the cutthroat world of Equestrian Fashion. And why Rarity is so gung-ho about it...

"…free from the tyranny of…"

"So you have learned something."

"Ah… Could be. You want me to open a boom tube back to Ponyville?"

I have to wonder how Starlight's village is going, with the things she learned from Grayven. I suppose we'll find out soon enough, especially if Grayven takes an interest.

"I think that I will take a little time to peruse the boutiques of Canterlot. Competitor research, as it were."

"Fine with me. You going to make your own way back, or do you need me to hang around?"

And now things start to change, eh? Oh, not for Rarity, unless she spots some amazing new innovation in fashion.

<Snipped original version>

"I'm.. perfectly…" Rarity looks past me at some sort of pony street preacher-. Starlight Glimmer? Been a few weeks since I've seen her, and Luna hasn't mentioned her. Wonder what she's been up to? Our Town is nowhere near Canterlot. Starlight's being widely ignored by the few passers-by, and Rarity gives her a slight frown before returning her attention to me. "Perfectly able to locate the station without you."

"No fur off my nose. Just thought you might appreciate the faster journey. Guess I'll see you later, then."

And the first significant variation. Good to see post-fusion Grayven remembers her now. And now I can't help but imagine Grayven-16 sitting somewhere deep inside the Renegade's mind grumbling about 'annoying technicolor midget horses.'

"I suppose that it's possible." She looks me over, then turns and trots towards… Another clothing shop.

Meh.

I'm getting a few stares, but it looks like the pony reaction to crazy street preachers is the same as the human reaction: head down and walk past them. As a result, no one is stopping to look at the giant alicorn. Including Starlight Glimmer herself, who's so far into her spiel that I'm not even sure if she's aware of her surroundings.

The lady does have strong feelings about her subject. It's impressive how many volunteers she had in the original episode, though. ...Wonder how many of them were at Grayven's lecture in this timeline?

Ah, okay. No much going on back on Earth that needs my attention, Vega's settling down nicely, I've returned my relations with the Bearerherd to neutral and Luna's been flicking her tail in what I think is meant to be a suggestive way at me lately. No need to go home just yet.

"…experience true equality!"

You know what? I'm going to see what that's all about.

Yes, might be a good plan, especially with what you know of her ideas.

I amble in the direction of the mare now taking a moment to breathe, and slowly becoming aware of exactly how much attention the locals are paying her. Her muzzle sets in a discordant protosnarl as she stares after a nearby couple, who spot her expression and hurry away a little faster.

"Hey."

Heh, she's still getting frustrated at other people, eh? Annoyed that they can't see the sheer logic of her theories... Such is the fate of Genius.

She turns her face towards me, snarl vanishing as she fixes her expression into 'politely persuasive' for a moment before realising who I am and blinking in confusion. I can see almost the exact moment she moves her mouth to start her sales script and then clamps down as she recognises me.

"He-. Uh. Hello s-. Grayven, hello Grayven."

And now the fun part begins...

She shakes her head, ears flopping down.

I look up at the large equals sign banner behind her, and then down-. The grey equals sign on her haunches has been replaced by a stylised purple star with a teal waft of teal smoke rising off it. Fits her pelt and mane better, though I'm not sure how it fits her outlook.

Her original cutie mark. Interesting that she's going about with it uncovered, though.

"What happened to your cutie mark?"

"Oooh. Ah. That's ah…" She sighs. "The equals sign was painted on. I wanted to show ponies how committed I was the cause of equality."

At least it was only paint. There are probably more permanent ways to hide, damage or disfigure a mark... Thankfully, they're probably too painful to perform on yourself except in the most desperate scenarios.

"And that's your actual mark?"

She nods solemnly. "Yes. My special talent is magic."

I-. Hang on. "Sunset Shimmer, magic, Twilight Sparkle, magic, Starlight Glimmer, also magic."

...Yes, definitely a running theme. Evidently Harmony has a sense of style. And humour.

"Ah…"

"Should we be looking out for a mare named Nightfall Twinkle?"

To be fair, once Twilight's Alicornhood became wider known, I can't imagine parents with high hopes giving their foals similar names in hopes of, well...

"No, that's not how.. it…" She raises her right forehoof to her chin and looks thoughtful. "I don't think that's how it works. Though ponies do often develop talents related to their names."

"Yeah, I noticed that too. Do their parents get magic intuition?"

Don't some ponies change their names upon gaining a Cutie Mark? I mean, I could see that happening. "Moooom, I'm not Daffodil any more! My talent is javelin-throwing, so I'm called Precise Pelt now!"

"I don't know. I could never get anypony to agree to let me study it." She gives a quiet snort and bows her head slightly. "I don't understand how so few other ponies are interested in this!"

"In my experience, intelligent species don't like reflecting on their underlying assumptions. Questioning cutie marks? That's more than any of them want to think about."

He's not wrong. Not even humans are above that failing.

"You proved that at your talk."

"So what are you doing here?"

"I'm trying to persuade more ponies to volunteer for my experiments. I've had… Some success-"

Ah, I see. Looking to expand her township. But not a particularly useful set of Cutie marks for successful scientific experimentation, eh? Hope it's not quite as bad as the show's version is, given her altered theories.

"Already?"

"-with-. Ah, yes?"

"Because I was expecting something this complicated to take years."

Bah, a pony like Starlight Glimmer has no time for patience.

"Oh. Ah, thanks. I talked the zebra alchemist Zecora into telling me how the cutie pox potion worked. I can replicate it no problem, but fine control is… Ah… Getting.. there."

"Well, you've already made more progress than anyone else in the history of Equestria. Feel proud."

...Oh. Well, now that could be a problem. If she really did mind-whammy Zecora, and has effectively been dosing her townsfolk with cutie-pox... I could see Harmony having an issue with that.

"Thank you." She stands up a little straighter. "I will."

"Though if I might suggest..? I don't think random street corners is the best place to go for volunteers of magical experiments. Have you considered older students from the School for Gifted Unicorns?"

...Well, no wonder she's not had any takers...

"I was planning on taking the volunteers back to Our Town…"

"I could probably talk them into letting you use their lab space."

Yes, and their medical facilities too. I'm sure she's had failures, hasn't she? Even if she's got an easy cure for the pox...

"Oh. Um. That.. would be great." She hops down off the stage and trots over to me. "I'm a little surprised that you're being this supportive. Most ponies…"

"Well, you know, alicorns are the most equal of ponies, being equally earth pony, pegasus pony and unicorn pony. Let's go track down the dean…"

Grayven also has the advantage of not being indoctrinated into pony culture like, y'know, nearly all Equestrians. Might still be a hard sell for the Dean.

Well, that reads a lot better, and definitely feels more natural. It'll be interesting to see more of how that all pans out in future.

Though I can understand if you want to put this little kerfuffle behind you, Mr Zoat. Can we expect that we'll be returning to OL tomorrow, and see how things have settled down in the last hour or two after the little war?

...how committed I was the cause of equality."

...how committed I was to the cause of equality."

Darko · Oct 27, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Heh, she's still getting frustrated at other people, eh? Annoyed that they can't see the sheer logic of her theories... Such is the fate of Genius.

Or the fate of crazy.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And now the fun part begins..

Fun isn't the correct term here.

Though Discord may consider it to be fun.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, definitely a running theme. Evidently Harmony has a sense of style. And humour.

Hey, a lot of other fictional universes, like Earth 16, also have people gain powers that reflect their names.

Paragon actually thought of that when he learned Effigy's real name.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Don't some ponies change their names upon gaining a Cutie Mark? I mean, I could see that happening. "Moooom, I'm not Daffodil any more! My talent is javelin-throwing, so I'm called Precise Pelt now!"

Precise Pelt is a way cooler name.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh. Well, now that could be a problem. If she really did mind-whammy Zecora, and has effectively been dosing her townsfolk with cutie-pox... I could see Harmony having an issue with that.

Not to mention her potentially leaving Zecora doing what she wants her to, which the clip showed leads to things like storm clouds, kitchen fires and quoting movies, books and comic books, along either mond controlling someone not exactly being an okay thing to do.

Mr Zoat · Oct 27, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
<headdesk> Welp, time for another look. Figures I'd jump the gun. Third time's the charm, eh?

Well, this part is unchanged, at least. Man, when was the last time we saw revisions like this? Mandated's Time-travel eff-ery? Though to be fair, even our dear writer is only human.

Human Resources, I think.

Don't some ponies change their names upon gaining a Cutie Mark? I mean, I could see that happening. "Moooom, I'm not Daffodil any more! My talent is javelin-throwing, so I'm called Precise Pelt now!"

That's come up in fanon a few times, but I don't think there's any canonical reference.

Well, that reads a lot better, and definitely feels more natural. It'll be interesting to see more of how that all pans out in future. Though I can understand if you want to put this little kerfuffle behind you, Mr Zoat. Can we expect that we'll be returning to OL tomorrow, and see how things have settled down in the last hour or two after the little war?

Yes, tomorrow is a debrief with Hinon.

...how committed I was to the cause of equality."

Thank you, corrected.

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