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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. crazygrox

    crazygrox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Worst case scenario.
    This is Mammon running to earth, showing up here and now because he's running for Orange Lantern's protection.
    Kara is going to pick a fight with him.
    Then he's going to reveal that Demon Flash or Demon Superman has transited to hell sixteen and is threatening his rule of hell and tearing a superspeed swath through his supporters.

    It ?might? not be a disaster for hell even if that is happening. The provinces of hell are semi-disconnected and require portals to transit between them, and there are demons who could eventually bring down one of those guys.
     
  2. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Recovering pendant.

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    Yes and yes.
     
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  3. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Okay, OL, I know you've had enough of Truggs' shit, but shouldn't you play some part in preparing for this invasion? Especially if the demonic hordes of Earth-whatever (I prefer Earth-666, lacking any information otherwise, Apparently that's taken, so Earth-Hell it is!) don't waste any time looking for, and finding, the way Truggs used to get Supergirl-Hell in the first place...

    Not taking into account the fact they're relative amateurs at the process? But no, you don't want to do it, so...

    Still... Ugh, it's pointless trying to change his mind, isn't it?

    ...Well, she has been catching up on human culture, I guess? And now I'm picturing her with a hundred TV screens and monitors, each playing a different movie or TV show... And she can keep each and every one of them straight.

    Surprised she didn't ask about the Reach, but I guess she figures 'If he's fighting them, they're bad guys.' She wouldn't be wrong, either.

    :p First rule of Acronyms: dump any word that gets in the way of a cutesy abbreviation. Articles are prime targets for that.

    Oh, thought of something the League can't handle about the invasion preparations? I can't help but imagine his eyes darting back and forth as he thinks of each one...

    And it's kind of a matter of jurisdiction, too. Don't want those dirty devils from that universe coming over here and messing up their nice Hell...

    Don't forget to look into expanding the area of effect of those dimensional travel blockers. The current model only covers a radius of a few dozen miles, right?

    Well, that depends. Is that Earth-1 modern... Or Modern modern? I would definitely lean more on the classical 'raygun gothic' aesthetic over, say, Donner's 'Crystal pillars and tunics' look.

    Yeah, she can probably see the neurons in your brain firing, and knows enough humanoid Kryptonoid biology to guess what you're thinking...

    ...Are we sure she isn't affected by Black Kryptonite, and is just so gosh-darn nice that she doesn't really do evil?

    Hopefully disguised as a classy 'House of El' icon belt, like Superman's?

    And that's no idle threat. Just consider what different colours of sunlight can do to Kryptonians. I remember a storyline about Superman developing some kind of physical overload, just before the 'Electric' era...

    Oh, yeah, 'hurricane-breath' and Silver Age super-lungs... That's a recipe for trouble.

    At a guess, at Silver Age levels of power, Superman could suck up a significant amount of gas into his lungs... Like, way more than should logically be able to fit into them, even when compressed into solid form...

    Ah, such trusting gullibility. But, again, she considers him a good guy, so naturally he wouldn't give her anything that could hurt her...

    Given her Silver Age powerset, she's basically immune to any purely physical attack vector short of a planet-killer... So it makes sense she wouldn't feel cocky.

    :rolleyes: ...There's the cockiness. Though really, any caster who doesn't take her down on the first hit will end up.. pacified.. quickly.

    Dodge. Superspeed gives you a +100 innate bonus to Reflex saves...

    Well, if you're acting as a human shield for someone, then fine.

    Finally, she understands! Well, she seems to understand. We'll see if it sank in when she inevitably gets dragged in.

    ...I would say something about her not having been here long enough to, but OL can handle that.

    ...Would Euanthe appreciate a donation of Kryptonian... fertilizer too?

    Given the alternative, yes, that is how it works.

    See! Thus, 'supergut'. Let's just add that to the long list of things not to think about now, then, shall we?

    Oh, hell, now what? A Reach push? Trouble with Jade? Dox wanting to know what the hell that last report is all about?

    Oh, local business. That... That's actually worse.

    Oh, hell. ...Heh, 'Oh, Hell' indeed... ;)

    Well, a Silver Age Kryptonian is a pretty major force multiplier. Even a teenage girl.

    Well, no time wasted, it seems. Looks like OL's going to have to make his preparations later... If he gets a later. It looks like Earth-Hell is wasting no time. Let's hope this is the only stop they made on the way. We can but hope it's a friendly demon, from the faction OL more-or-less controls, trying to get in touch... :confused: Or maybe it's that guy involved in the "Many Happy Returns" storyline...
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  4. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    I doubt there will be a Demon Flash.

    Mainly because a Demon Flash would be completely unstoppable.
     
  5. crazygrox

    crazygrox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I'm not sure that Demon flash would beat Paul in a fight. I guess he could if he can do the more exotic attacks/higher powerlevels, but I'm not convinced he actually would.

    If they catch Demon Flash in hell 16 they could prevent too much collateral damage, while on earth they're basically dependent on demon flash being either too busy striking super heroic targets to target civilians/being limited by the need to fight earth 16 speedsters, and hoping that either the combination of Jay and Barry(and wally draining speed, assuming that comes up again) is enough to take him(probably really wishing that they'd taken the subspace arsenal Paul suggested to Flash way back), or that their speedsters can take advantage of area of effect attacks caused by league theurgists and Paul to beat demon flash, or that some of the earth 16 Kryptonians can weigh in to help allied flash.
    (I've been assuming that being demon-y enhances him somehow, making him more dangerous.)

    Also hoping that demon flash can't do superspeed demon magic rituals, either because he doesn't do magic, or because the rituals can't be sped faster than something in the system other than the caster can handle(either the magic or the demon).

    In short, there could be demon flash, because he is stoppable, just difficult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Or her Krypton knew of them.

    So is Paul, to be honest.

    Defending a planet by himself, sure, he's good at that.

    Organizing people and groups into doing it, not so easy.
     
  7. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    That should say 'thought'.
     
  8. Rafin

    Rafin Know what you're doing yet?

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    The current hierarchs if Hell 16 should definitely be willing to help, since parallel demons most probably don't play nice with each other, especially in the long run.
     
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  9. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Earth 666 is officially the Lucifer universe.


    Played straight to each character's actual powers and the kill first ask questions never of the Demonic being's from that world that we've seen so far?

    Paragon stands absolutely zero chance.

    Because in the time it would take Paragon to even register he was even under attack, his rings would already be destroyed and his head separated from his body.
     
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  10. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    You don't want to do something too planet-wide like that. There's a number of demonically-powered heroes who wouldn't appreciate it, and a number of partial-demon normals who don't deserve it.
    You might end up with some angry gray-skinned goth chick scowling at you.
     
  11. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    True.
     
  12. crazygrox

    crazygrox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    So:
    I'm not sure flash could destroy a ring.
    Paragon habitually goes into battle in a suit of power armor equipped with a kinetic barrier, which does a lot to neutralize Garrick formula attackers(essentially requiring phasing attacks, maybe vibrating things and making them explode and relying on the heat of doing so to score a kill, or maybe some sort of friction heat attack which I can't remember the Flash ever actually doing)
    Also goes into battle surrounded by an environmental shield and construct armor. Flash absolutely can't casually smash through construct armor, and probably would take at least a little effort to get through an environmental shield.
    And flash probably won't resort to a preemptive phasing attack, just based on behavior patterns and it not usually being worth the effort(also not sure whether the armor has any defense against that or whether paul has any remaining Nth metal for area of effect anti-phasing, or whether he can find a way to make the usual antiphasic rounds work.).
    Paragon also goes into battle flying, which means he can only be effectively attacked by thrown objects and superspeed tornadoes.
    And if he knew he was fighting a speedster he'd go into battle surrounded by a cold field, which stops flash in his tracks.

    Sure if he's caught by surprise on the ground with only an environmental shield he might die before he can do anything.
    But the rings getting destroyed is unlikely.
    And even then there's more chance of the Demon Flash stopping to be sadistic, or not realizing that Orange Lanterns can heal themselves, because he only has prior experience with green ones and maybe Sinestro, and underestimating the amount of damage needed to kill.

    And if there's a clone body nearby he might manage to resurrect(not entirely a sure thing with demons around), at which point he either calls his rings to him, or calls new rings to him if his were destroyed, and fights on more ideal terms.

    In short I think you're wanking flash.
    He can win(very likely but not entirely certain with the advantage of surprise[making it work requires that he be wary or paranoid about his opponent], fairly unlikely but possible with both expecting the fight), but I don't think it's the most likely outcome, and if it does happen it'll be shortly followed by another fight where OL is better prepared and possibly has better allies backing him up.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  13. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  14. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Kinetic barriers don't stop phasing and have to be turned on.

    Environmental shields don't stop demonic claws traveling at near or above light speed... Or anything traveling at near or above light speed...

    Finally with what we saw of Dupergirl there is no taunting or gloating just attempted murder.

    And remember... This isn't the heavily nerfed Flash of Earth 16 or the JLAU. But one of the comics level Speedforce Flash's. And the Speedforce is a fundamental force that trumps the emotional spectrum.
     
  15. mastermenthe

    mastermenthe Mint Thistle

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    Obviously, if OL os thinking about preparing himself against the demonic invasion is running afoul of John Constantine's "do not come find me" warding spells! Which is also the reason why it took him so long to come up with alternatives, and why OL is being so ADHD about which ways they and he could help, because any "path to dealing with the demonic invasion" that runs afoul of "do not find Constantine" has to reboot and do workarounds to get past the forbidden access error.

    Hold up! That is why New Kara is sticking to OL so strongly! Kara Zor-L has had Torqueasm up and running non-stop ever since OL opened her pod! Torqueasm is protecting New Kara from Constantine's spell! New Kara can sense Constantine's spell affecting OL and is following him like a concerned dog following their human when they smell their human has a disease!

    Thing is, because of how OL... or rather, because of how Paul, any variant, naturally acts around others, his default reaction is to avoid betraying expectations, which means New Kara is right to blindly trust in OL, even if she doesn't know why she is right.
     
  16. crazygrox

    crazygrox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Even if he is incomparably more powerful than the local version, which we don't know yet(just that he comes from a parallel where the 'demon corrupting Superman plan' was tried and worked), flash would still find it hard to deal with an opponent who can fly, defend themselves against thrown objects, and throw out area of effect attacks that are large enough that he can't see the edges of area from inside of it(the fact that the opponent is familiar with his weaknesses and counter tactics is just a cherry on top).
    Attacks don't have to propagate outward from a middle and thus be possible to outrun, they can take the form of a fence expanding inwards, covering an area larger than the what can be seen to the horizon, or appearing simultaneously throughout the entire affected volume, so by the time he sees it it's too late.

    The man has had serious fights with rogues who are essentially normal humans with signature weapons, powerlevels are less important than tactics. And while not trying to take the opposition alive is a tactical advantage, it's not enough of one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  17. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Yea but see... That's in a fight...

    With Flash's speed there is no fight... Because you're dead before you even realize you're being attacked...
     
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  18. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Is that the case anywhere other than the Pre Crisis CW Verse? We don't even know if it's the case after their crisis.
     
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  19. crazygrox

    crazygrox I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    In second thought. I think this might make their relationship better?

    Not like I know how to deal with long-distance relationships, power imbalances, or imbalances in commitment to the relationship either though.
     
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  20. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 Not too sore, are you?

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    I... source? Because last time I checked both of those are fundamental forces in DC and, while I don't mean to downplay the Speedforce, Flash has never one-shot a Sun Eater, which Parallax Hal Jordan absolutely has. (Yes, I know there was more going on than just Spectrum stuff there, but the point stands)
     
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  21. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Also, Speedforce isn't even a part of the Young Justice universe.
     
  22. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 Not too sore, are you?

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    IIRC there isn't actually an official standpoint on it from DC, and the show runners have said that if you want it to be a part of it then that's just as valid as it not being in Young Justice.

    But yes, if it isn't a part of Universe-16 in Zoat's canon then that kind of removes a theoretical Demon-Flash as a threat.
     
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  23. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    If you want there to be an invisible pink unicorn following OL around at all times that's also valid. I don't recall if Zoat has explicitly changed it, but Greg Weismann said there is no speed force in Universe 16, and that there is no reason for it to exist in the comics where it was stated to exist.
     
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  24. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

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    From the context, references. I'm mean sure all her referees are also dead. But that shouldn't stop her from playing sports on earth in an of itself.
     
  25. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    I don't know why people keep misrepresenting Greg's position. It took one whole google search to show that has been inaccurate for over a decade now.

    And AGAIN, I'll restate what I've stated many times since, which is that no one on Earth-16 has HEARD of the Speed-Force. If you want to believe it's there, but they just don't know about it, more power to you.

    I don't know that I changed my position as opposed to nuanced it slightly. And even that I did years ago. I'm still not a big fan of the concept. But instead of saying/claiming it doesn't exist, I took a couple steps back and said that no one on Earth-16 has heard of the Speed-Force. Whether or not it "exists" becomes a SPOILER REQUEST.

    I also find it odd that people who grew up on Willpower being both solid and green for crying out loud have conniptions about the speedforce. Elementals like Swamp Thing and Animal Man use a scientific concept that was debunked in the 30s.
     
  26. gattsuru

    gattsuru Getting out there.

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    It’s less that it’s goofy — it is, but so is a lot of other comic book stuff — and more that it doesn’t mean much, and authors haven’t really tried to make it mean much. Anything a speedster needs to do can be tied to the Speed Force, but you have to shake it pretty hard to get a weakness, a motivation, or a complication out of it. The Emotional Spectrum and morphogenetic fields were like that when they first came out, but Batman’s used a field disruptor on Swamp Thing and the rock-paper-scissors nature of the Emotions is often overused. The Speed Force or HawkGod, not so much.

    Some writers can get away with convenient explanations that always help sometimes. But it’s a spot that attracts focus.
     
  27. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    I was aware of the first post but had not seen the second. Still, if no one, which would Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, and Thawne, has heard of it, and you choose to believe it exists? Ehh I suppose you can, but it certainly isn't a given that it is, and given that his other answers on the subject have called it a stupid idea I'm not inclined to believe it does exist in his works. Then again, he did say "if there's a speed force why isn't there a strength force? or a smart force?" and now we have those other forces so maybe he did change his position on the matter. You've also got me curious to look up what he's said on the emotional spectrum.
     
  28. Threadmarks: Past Participant (part 6)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    16th September 2012
    12:37 GMT -6


    Liberty, Iowa.

    It used to be a medium sized farming town. Then farming techniques improved and farming itself became less profitable, and the vitality started ebbing away. And then some combination of John Constantine, the Resurrection Crusade and an actual resurrection of the town's war dead completely destroyed it. A few survivors were written off as delusional and are now either happily living somewhere else or guests of the state in various secure hospitals.

    A ghost town. My rune stone says that it's mildly thaumically active, noticeably above background. I don't know whether it's a literal ghost town or not. All known sites at which the Resurrection Crusade practiced magic ceased functioning when the last of their elders were killed, but no one ever checked the place over.

    "Orange Lantern and Supergirl... Three, on-site. Beginning search."

    "What are we looking for?"

    "Anything that looks like a demon. Anything that looks like it comes from a parallel universe. Anything-. No."

    I roll my eyes as Kara points to herself.

    "Unless you're secretly a demon and want to mutter about no one else having 'the mark'."

    She taps the middle of her chest with her right forefinger.

    "I have the mark. It's the symbol of House El."

    "I'm not sure it counts if it's worn on clothing, but well prepared."

    Scanning for intruders… Nothing, but that's hardly a surprise. If you're establishing a bridgehead into hostile territory you either flood the place or you send a small team who won't be spotted easily. And with there being no one around…

    "Are you seeing anything odd?"

    "I don't know. I've never been here before." She sniffs. "There's a strange smell, though."

    Ring? Oh. Chemicals consistent with burned flesh. Burned human flesh. Doesn't seem to go anywhere, though it does suggest that something strange is happening. Incendiaries were used when the town was destroyed but the residue shouldn't be airborne after over a decade.

    "Do you know what it is?" She sniffs again. "It smells like bacon. I think I like it."

    Ring, anything unexpected but not demonic?

    Ah. Recent signs of habitation. A couple of the cars are out of place from where they were abandoned when the survivors fled the town. Wood has been removed from some of the less intact buildings, and it looks like someone has gone through the gardens.

    Someone or some people has/have been living here. Living here for a while… But then Truggs didn't tell me how long Demongirl had been here for.

    "Ooh! And I smell people!" Kara flies off to the north. "Over here!"

    I fly after her, generating construct armour to go over my power armour. Nothing on infrared, nothing on sonics, someone is definitely hiding themselves. Only question is, are they magic-using hermits or are they our target?

    "HELLO!"

    I consider remonstrating with Kara as she puts her hands to her mouth to announce our presence. But we're hanging here in the open sky within easy view of the ground. Just announcing ourselves isn't a terrible way to go, especially if whoever is there is nothing to do with the Demon Earth.

    "IS THERE ANYONE THERE?! WE'RE SUPERHEROES AND WE'RE HERE TO HELP!"

    Kara bows her head slightly and closes her eyes. Trying to hear a response. I'm still not picking anything up, but I could try more exotic forms of scan if this doesn't-.

    Kara's eyes snap open and she points to a house in reasonable repair. "That one."

    "Sure?"

    She nods. "The sounds don't match what I can see. And the-" She sniffs again. "-smells coming from it are weird."

    "Weird how?"

    "Like… There's one smell… And then there's a different smell? You know?"

    "No, I don't know. Is the kryptonian sense of smell actually sensing chemicals in the air, or does it work in some other way?"

    "I don't know. I've only had it for a couple of days, silly."

    "Alright."

    I free the hellwraith from my ring and send it forward towards the detached house indicated. Huh. Actually, this would be a decent place for a superhero base, if the superhero in question could do long distance teleportation. An attacker would find it very difficult to hide their approach, there's plenty of space and-.

    "Mastaaaaaaaah!"

    I watch as the hellwraith is consumed in golden fire as it enters the house's garden. I instruct it to pull back but the flames don’t relent. It burns for few seconds and then it's gone.

    I give it a moment, but there's no sudden rush of knowledge that would come from it returning to my rings. I try deploying it again and nothing happens.

    Couldn't happen to a nicer demon.

    I create a megaphone construct.

    "Whoever's in the house! This is the Justice League! Please come out with your hands visible and carrying no arcane paraphernalia! You have until the count of five to comply or reply, then we will force entry!"

    "Stop! Stop!"

    "Sir?! Are you under threat?!"

    "I can't-! He won't let me take it off!"

    I can't locate the speaker. Even looking right through the windows reveals nothing.

    "Sir, please come out of the house, and we will endeavour to render aid."

    "O-okay! I'm coming out with my hands up! Don’t shoot, or whatever you do!"

    I generate a construct railgun and load mage slayers.

    "Sure!"

    Kara frowns disapprovingly at me, and I dismiss the megaphone construct.

    "I won't shoot. I just want it in place in case he does. This is a very precise instrument. I can use it to negate defensive and offensive spells without killing the caster, or injure them without killing them."

    "Oh. Well, that's okay then."

    "I'm at the door!"

    "Alright sir, you can come on out."

    The door swings open as far as its hinges will allow it, slamming into the house's outer wall and bouncing back. A man with pale skin dressed in loose fitting cotton and denim clothing slowly walks out, my eyes immediately drawn to the golden skull-helmet covering his entire head.

    "Please, help me. It won't let me take it off."
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  29. Syphi

    Syphi Know what you're doing yet?

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    Lovely. Someone invited an alternate Nabu
     
  30. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    That's a shame. The hellwraith is actually useful in some situations. Hopefully Paul can buy a replacement from Mammon in the future.


    Are we doing alternate Nabus now? Or did he keep a spare helmet somewhere?
     
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