With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Doccer]

Black pillars studied with screaming

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studded

 

[Mr Zoat]

studded

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Huh. Seems like something fucked over the seperation between not just Earth and Hell but other places, like the Shadowlands, too.

I wonder what else is leaking?

 

[Clell65619]

16th September 2012
17:21 GMT -2

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A bit of oddness my OCD noticed with the Chapter Timestamps. A lot of things appear to be happening at once

Part 11: 2005 GMT+1 so, 19:05
Part 12: 19:16 GMT
Part 13: 19:21 GMT
Part 14: 19:26 GMT
Part 15: 19:29 GMT
Part 16: 19:46 GMT <-- The latest events of this sequence so far
Part 17: 19:59 GMT+1 so, 18:53 a step back?
Part 18: 19:04 GMT <-- Paul waiting to speak to the Queen
Part 19: 17:21 GMT-2 so, 19:21.

Paul managed to do his business with who ever is sitting on England's (Britain's?) throne, get back to Superman and do a lookie-loo at the remains of Atlantis in 17 minutes?

For that matter Part 13 and part 19 have the same timestamp, accounting for timezones.

Was this intentional or a flub with the times? Do we have a single Paul and company playing in this Hell-Earth dimension, or have multiple versions all decided to do the tour at the same time.

OCD is a terrible thing.

 

[Mr Zoat]

A bit of oddness my OCD noticed with the Chapter Timestamps. A lot of things appear to be happening at once

Part 11: 2005 GMT+1 so, 19:05
Part 12: 19:16 GMT
Part 13: 19:21 GMT
Part 14: 19:26 GMT
Part 15: 19:29 GMT
Part 16: 19:46 GMT <-- The latest events of this sequence so far
Part 17: 19:59 GMT+1 so, 18:53 a step back?
Part 18: 19:04 GMT <-- Paul waiting to speak to the Queen
Part 19: 17:21 GMT-2 so, 19:21.

Paul managed to do his business with who ever is sitting on England's (Britain's?) throne, get back to Superman and do a lookie-loo at the remains of Atlantis in 17 minutes?

For that matter Part 13 and part 19 have the same timestamp, accounting for timezones.

Was this intentional or a flub with the times? Do we have a single Paul and company playing in this Hell-Earth dimension, or have multiple versions all decided to do the tour at the same time.

OCD is a terrible thing.

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You appear to have missed that yesterday's segment was from the viewpoint of Overgirl.

 

[Impartial Panic]

I wonder what else is leaking?

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So Far we got Hell and The Shadowlands.

There may be the Bleed which would help facilitate the universal crossings.
The Dreaming is another possibility.
The Faerie realms who's name eludes me right now.
Various Afterlives Such as Valhalla and Tartarus

"How about Eden? You know where the entrance is, don't you?"

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Yeah Good Luck with that, I imagine The Silver City sent reinforcements to lock down the gates of eden.
Probably with orders that if it isn't from the silver city hit it with everything they got and let hell sort the bodies out.

 

[Cuchulin]

Wouldn't creating another immortal cave-man make a host of new problems? It's possible that this new cave-man does the exact same thing or worse to the world. Also since no one knows how the meteor works just exposing yourself to it could make you insane.

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Klarn Arg A.K.A. Immortal Man is an immortal Caveman that usually shares his origin with Savage and possibly Mitch Shelley A.K.A. Resurrection Man. So the problem isn't the meteorite it was Savage who was an evil psycho even before he became an immortal.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Oh goody, Eldritch Fuckery, one of my favourite tropes.

to for a ceiling

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'Form'

 

[Pinklestia]

Going to the DC Atlantis when there is literally Hell on Earth?

Is Oh El going over a checklist of stupid things to do and then actually doing them?

 

[Darko]

Going to the DC Atlantis when there is literally Hell on Earth?

Is Oh El going over a checklist of stupid things to do and then actually doing them?

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He went there to see if there is anyone that could potentially help him deal with the Hell on Earth situation, since Atlantis is a magical nation, so it's perfectly understandable that he'd think that they may have been able to somehow resist the whole Hell thing.

They didn't survive, but checking to see if there's anyone there isn't exactly a stupid thing.

 

[Pinklestia]

They didn't survive, but checking to see if there's anyone there isn't exactly a stupid thing.

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Yes it is because as pointed out the demon thing has been going by two years.

If the Silvanas didn't survive and let me remind you; they have a base on Venus, then everyone in Atlantis is dead or in the side of demons.

The smart thing to do us to deny Demon Superman the home advantage, lure him into another Earth were they have everything needed to take him down.

Don't go into a Tinker/Mad Scientist Lab and don't fight a demon in Hell.

And if Demon Superman won't leave his Earth then use hit and run tactics.

 

[Chaoswind]

Yes it is because as pointed out the demon thing has been going by two years.

If the Silvanas didn't survive and let me remind you; they have a base on Venus, then everyone in Atlantis is dead or in the side of demons.

The smart thing to do us to deny Demon Superman the home advantage, lure him into another Earth were they have everything needed to take him down.

Don't go into a Tinker/Mad Scientist Lab and don't fight a demon in Hell.

And if Demon Superman won't leave his Earth then use hit and run tactics.

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Trying to recruit locals is entirely pointless because if the locals had the means or will to fix their situation they would have done so ages ago... Asking for Intel IE what he did with Lantern Green Man is correct, but everything else has been stupid.

He could ask for local support if the strike force from Earth 16 was sufficiently powerful and numerous to manage things on their own to a certain degree... Two and a half Kryptonians and a powerful lantern without a connection to the local embodiment are a powerful force, but not sufficient when Nabu literally told them Demon Superman has an army of demonic metas doing his biding that likely includes mirror images of the metas that exist in 16.

Even more so when our group does not want to kill their enemies...

 

[Darko]

Yes it is because as pointed out the demon thing has been going by two years.

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So?

A few chapters ago we saw a place where the demons still haven't taken over, and Atlantis had access to powerful magic, so it's not that difficult for Paul to think that they may have survived.

the Silvanas didn't survive and let me remind you; they have a base on Venus, then everyone in Atlantis is dead or in the side of demons

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They didn't check the base on Venus, only a base on Earth.

The Sivanas may have left the planet, or they could have been killed, but just because they have a base on Venus that doesn't mean they were somehow immune to being killed.

They tend to spend time on Earth and could have been killed then.

Trying to recruit locals is entirely pointless because if the locals had the means or will to fix their situation they would have done so ages ago... Asking for Intel IE what he did with Lantern Green Man is correct, but everything else has been stupid

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Not really.

Getting information from the locals would be extremely valuable.

True they may not have much of a way of undoing the damage but that doesn't mean that they weren't studying the situation, and that info would be valuable.

 

[Chaoswind]

So?

A few chapters ago we saw a place where the demons still haven't taken over, and Atlantis had access to powerful magic, so it's not that difficult for Paul to think that they may have survived.



They didn't check the base on Venus, only a base on Earth.

The Sivanas may have left the planet, or they could have been killed, but just because they have a base on Venus that doesn't mean they were somehow immune to being killed.

They tend to spend time on Earth and could have been killed then.



Not really.

Getting information from the locals would be extremely valuable.

True they may not have much of a way of undoing the damage but that doesn't mean that they weren't studying the situation, and that info would be valuable.

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Intel value increases the more complex a situation is, there is little complexity here, there is no gray area in regards to who is the bad guy and who needs to be stopped.

Sorting out how the demons are invading Nazi earth is important in the same way disabling the Suez Canal was important during WW2... If you can decapitate your enemies swiftly then holding the Suez is irrelevant and can easily be done after your enemies are broken.

This is a filler arc that hopefully will tie to more important things later, but on its own I am not invested even more so with the hoops the narrative has taken to mitigate the resources/characters involved.

If Nabu had sent Paul to Demon earth as a fuck you during assimilation, that would have achieved a more interesting development with similar constraints to the characters involved in the episode (less characters from the large pool at Zoat disposal). Having Paul and his little strike team jumping half cooked with no plan feels stupid in comparison.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Intel value increases the more complex a situation is, there is little complexity here, there is no gray area in regards to who is the bad guy and who needs to be stopped.

Sorting out how the demons are invading Nazi earth is important in the same way disabling the Suez Canal was important during WW2... If you can decapitate your enemies swiftly then holding the Suez is irrelevant and can easily be done after your enemies are broken.

This is a filler arc that hopefully will tie to more important things later, but on its own I am not invested even more so with the hoops the narrative has taken to mitigate the resources/characters involved.

If Nabu had sent Paul to Demon earth as a fuck you during assimilation, that would have achieved a more interesting development with similar constraints to the characters involved in the episode (less characters from the large pool at Zoat disposal). Having Paul and his little strike team jumping half cooked with no plan feels stupid in comparison.

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Have you missed the part where the superheroes are trying to save as many people as they can, including all the ones that were corrupted by demons? Because that's what they're trying to do, and that means figuring out how the hell to properly reverse what's happened. Which means understanding the situation.

They need to do scouting and intel gathering before they can have anything resembling an actual plan.

Hell, at the moment they have no proof that it's even this universe that's doing the invasions, just the word of Truggs of all people, so they need to find that out before they can tell how many resources to put into fixing this problem.

 

[Darko]

Intel value increases the more complex a situation is, there is little complexity here, there is no gray area in regards to who is the bad guy and who needs to be stopped

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When I was talking about intel I meant intel about how this happened, how it is exactly affecting people etc., which they may find in Atlantis since it's a magical nation with advanced sorcery and knowledge concerning magic, not who the bad guy is.

As Assblaster5000 said, they want to reverse what has happened here and that would require them knowing how it happened in the first place.

 

[Chaoswind]

Have you missed the part where the superheroes are trying to save as many people as they can, including all the ones that were corrupted by demons? Because that's what they're trying to do, and that means figuring out how the hell to properly reverse what's happened. Which means understanding the situation.

They need to do scouting and intel gathering before they can have anything resembling an actual plan.

Hell, at the moment they have no proof that it's even this universe that's doing the invasions, just the word of Truggs of all people, so they need to find that out before they can tell how many resources to put into fixing this problem.

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They already know how, it was literally done a few updates ago. All they need is to do is hold down Demon Superman long enough for any of their allies with angel magic to burn the demon shit out of him, if that kills him well who cares?

There is zero complexity to this problem beyond learning exactly what Truggs was doing and how the demons are jumping to Nazi earth, as far as the fic is concerned the stakes in this episode couldn't be lower.

If Nabu had sent Paul against his will a lot could be justified in this episode... Since that didn't happen things feel extremely contrived.

 

[Darko]

They already know how, it was literally done a few updates ago

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Except not really.

They only have one example of a corrupted being, the Demon Supergirl, and when Loriel burned out the Hell magic from her it didn't get rid of it completely, some if it became a part of her very soul.

Their current method is a bit too brutal and does not fully work so it makes perfect sense that they'd want to find a better one that would get rid of all the Hell magic, as well as fixing the magic of the planet itself.

Finding info in Atlantis would be a good way to do that since it's not such a leap of logic to think that they'd study what happened and how it happened.

It's like how medical professionals study the development of disease in order to figure out a way to cure it.

And seeing as I'm using medical examples to describe the situation, Loriel's method can be viewed as something like an amputation and these guys may want a less severe method.

Amputations were once used pretty frequently to get rid of iinfectionsand disease but people still try to find ways to get rid of disease without cutting off a part of a person.

All they need is to do is hold down Demon Superman long enough for any of their allies with angel magic to burn the demon shit out of him, if that kills him well who cares?

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They may care since they want to cure the people of this world and if the method kills him then they may not be able to do that.

There is zero complexity to this problem beyond learning exactly what Truggs was doing and how the demons are jumping to Nazi earth, as far as the fic is concerned the stakes in this episode couldn't be lower.

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You forgot the complexity of how the people and planet is being changed by the Hell magic.

 

[Chaoswind]

Except not really.

They only have one example of a corrupted being, the Demon Supergirl, and when Loriel burned out the Hell magic from her it didn't get rid of it completely, some if it became a part of her very soul.

Their current method is a bit too brutal and does not fully work so it makes perfect sense that they'd want to find a better one that would get rid of all the Hell magic, as well as fixing the magic of the planet itself.

Finding info in Atlantis would be a good way to do that since it's not such a leap of logic to think that they'd study what happened and how it happened.

It's like how medical professionals study the development of disease in order to figure out a way to cure it.

And seeing as I'm using medical examples to describe the situation, Loriel's method can be viewed as something like an amputation and these guys may want a less severe method.

Amputations were once used pretty frequently to get rid of iinfectionsand disease but people still try to find ways to get rid of disease without cutting off a part of a person.



They may care since they want to cure the people of this world and if the method kills him then they may not be able to do that.



You forgot the complexity of how the people and planet is being changed by the Hell magic.

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Hell earth doesn't matter, is the location of this weeks episode. It's filler. I don't give a fuck about anything that happens in it and the things that happen in it do not seem to be related to any of the larger plots in the fic at least the few remaining interesting ones, because what Truggs and the light have been doing isn't really interesting because there is no background build up to it.

If random people had been showing with Sivana tech and there had been some build up into investigating it, it would have been different.

Long history short, the ground work hasn't been done to make me care a single iota about this.

If we had been seeing a couple of updates from the POV of a Paul in demon earth ending with his corruption or death, then I would care.

If our Paul had been dropped there against his will without support for a double episode like star crossed, I would care.

As the situation currently goes this arc is filler.


Edit: Also there is no tension, is Paul going to die... Permanently? No.

Is Superman going to die? Literally who cares?

Does anyone care if either Overman or Angelika die?

The answer to all of that is no. With no tension and no narrative attachment this arc is filler, words without purpose, bloat, etc.

 

[Assblaster5000]

They already know how, it was literally done a few updates ago. All they need is to do is hold down Demon Superman long enough for any of their allies with angel magic to burn the demon shit out of him, if that kills him well who cares?

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Ah yes, hold the magical super-Krypotonian with their group as one of The League's theurgists burns the demon magic out of him, I'm sure that will not only go well but also work in an alien, corrupted thaumosphere which we have direct quotes from the single oldest, most knowledgeable mage alive that says their magic would be unreliable at best. But that hardly matters, Dr. Mist is old after all, his mind's clearly going.

And of course the billion plus people on Demon-Earth don't matter, because most of them aren't named characters that we've ever met, so who cares if they're damned to a life of eternal suffering and torment because Superman decide to punch demons real good instead of saving lives? No interesting bits of narrative could possibly be had from them trying to find a way to fix the damn problem, no sir.

What's that you say? This is uplift fiction, so solving big, sweeping problems like that is the whole point? Don't be silly, we all know that no one would care if Superman, the man with perfect morals, left a bunch of people to suffer and die because a whole world of people "don't matter."

Why didn't I think of all that?

 

[Darko]

Hell earth doesn't matter, is the location of this weeks episode. It's filler. I don't give a fuck about anything that happens in it and the things that happen in it do not seem to be related to any of the larger plots in the fic at least the few remaining interesting ones, because what Truggs and the light have been doing isn't really interesting because there is no background build up to it.

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Then why are you complaining about the actions of the SI that you view as being illogical, even though they're logical, when you don't care about this part?

You're practically acting like a mini-Vaermina.

Superman going to die? Literally who cares

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The characters from the story who have a close relationship with him, the readers of the story who like the character etc.

Does anyone care if either Overman or Angelika die?

The answer to all of that is no

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Actually for this I'd say it's yes.

Primarily due to Overman and Overgirl potentially setting up a future episode in which they try to reform Nazi World.

It would be kinda difficult for them to reform it if they're dead.

 

[Sojiko]

This world is unsettling.

 

[Ngamer11]

This world is unsettling.

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It's one where a demonic Superman rules America with his demonified superheroes as his lackeys. Of course it's unsettling. I just hope that Paul and the rest can get something useful from this trip to hellish Earth. Also, Mr Zoat, which is a more appropriate designation: Demon Earth or Hell Earth? Or will you give this one a number?

 

[Clell65619]

You appear to have missed that yesterday's segment was from the viewpoint of Overgirl.

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Oops. Yes I did.

STILL, a whole lot of stuff happening in 41 minutes.

 

[Mr Zoat]

16th September 2012
17:24 GMT -2

"How's your sense of-?"

Two great hands made of shadows close in on either side of me. Ah. Large crumbler gauntlet constructs and punch and no, okay, grab?

"Distance? We're not in-"

Grabbing and overcharging the crumbler system appears to disrupt the formation of giant hands. It's even making the faces a bit blurry. But they're not going away, and I don't think I'm doing any actual damage like this.

"-Kansas anymore."

"That hurt-"

Superman looks around, firing short bursts of heat vision in all directions, possibly attempting to illuminate the area and find a source.

"-worse than the-"

No luck, and now the tentacle mouths are wrapping around his legs and chest. They don't seem to be squeezing, but they are impeding his movement.

"-teeth."

Making sense of what's happening with so many translucent phantasms appearing in the blackness isn't easy, but-. Blade!

"You've got-"

I generate a shield construct in the way of the approaching spear made of shadow, but it punches through! Superman spots my construct and pulls himself aside, narrowly dodging and causing it to slice the tentacles binding his legs in half.

"-armour."

"I offered. Ideas?"

"I could spin around real fast."

I take x-ionised knives out of subspace and try using them on the shadow tentacles. It… Sort of works. I cut them apart and they don't just reform, but it doesn't stop more appearing.

"Is that a serious suggestion?"

Multiple giant blades thrust towards Superman and he dances through them, striking the flat of each with his fists as he passes.

"Is that?"

He grabs a broken blade tip and hurls it at an oncoming shaft. Both crack and fracture before merging with the background blackness.

"You don't have some kind of portal?"

"Several. None I've tested in conditions remotely similar to these."

The faces are swimming in and out of focus. I send a crumbler gauntlet construct at one of them, but again, not enough effect to get excited about.

"How about the Ophidian?"

"Parallel universe. Might work, might get the local one and don't really want them exposed to demon magic. Last time I did, I became rather brusque."

"Brusque? I'd hate to see that. How are you doing for ring power?"

"A long way from worrying."

Ring, analysis. Is there one primary head? One head which always starts the facial expression?

No observed primary head.

"I can try assimilating it?"

"Isn't The Shade weak against sunlight?"

"It negates his obtenebration, yes. It doesn't actually hurt him."

"Glad to hear it." He reaches into his belt pouch and pulls out a small crystal. "Har-Zod called this a sunstone."

"If it's unique, don't-"

He throws it back the way we came, then fires a burst of heat vision at it!

Blinding white light blasts outwards, the blackness vanishing and normal water reappearing as it goes! I blink as the sudden change happens faster than my ring can adapt to, the blur causing-.

Something-. There.

I rocket forward, grabbing the figure before putting a bubble around him and rocketing back to Superman. The light burst has faded and the shadows are creeping back, though nothing like as quickly as they arrived.

"Who is it?"

I get a better look.

"Richard Swift. And he-."

Behind his smoked glasses his eyes snap open, and-

"You do not bear the mark!"

-the shadows are coming back and mage slayer round through the bubble and shoot him in the head!

"Uh-!"

Because with all this Shadowland influence around I'm hoping that there isn't quite as much demon magic around here as there is everywhere else. And… Yes, shadows move between the top and bottom of his mouth and return its dimensions to normal, and there's a little more of him in his eyes-. He tries focusing on me.

"You…"

"Mister Swift?"

A swarm of skulls made of shadows batter into the inner surface of the bubble!

"You do not bear the mark!"

And the faces are back.

"Mark." / "Mark." / "Mark." / "Mark."

"Got another stone?"

"One."

He fires a line of heat vision down a row of faces as he tosses it to me, and I grab it with a construct. One railgun round for that, one with a tiny piece of one of Angelica's discarded feathers and hope that he was serious about that whole 'God wants nothing to do with me' line.

Bubble down fire sunstone shield eyes-

"RAAGH!"

-fire angel round-

"AAGH!"

Gold fire roars over his body, causing him to shudder-. Oh whoops, that's a light source. His skin burns and blisters as the demonic magic is -hopefully- purged from him. The Shadowland immigrants around us fall away and fade, and as I look upwards I see the ocean's surface.

"H-aa. H-aa. H-aaa."

Mr. Swift is… Not in good health, but there's no sign of demonic activity and his powers appear to be under control. He weakly opens his eyes, makes momentary eye contact with me, then loses consciousness.

"London?"

"London."

 

[Darko]

How's you sense of-?

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'How's your'

happening with no many translucent phantasms appearing in the blackness isn't easy, but-. Blade!

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'so many'

Last time I did, I became rather brusque."

"Brusque? I'd hate to see that

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Yeah, if you thought this Paul was am asshole you really don't to see him on Hell magic.

Richard Swift. And he-."

Behind his smoked glasses his eyes snap open, and-

"You do not bear the mark!"

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Well fuck.

tiny piece of one of Angela's discarded feathers and hope that he was serious about

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'one of Angelica's'

 

[Ngamer11]

"How's you sense of-?"

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That should say 'your'.

"Richard Swift. And he-."

Behind his smoked glasses his eyes snap open, and-

"You do not bear the mark!"

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I'm a little surprised someone of his magnitude of power was also defeated and corrupted.

One railgun round for that, one with a tiny piece of one of Angela's discarded feathers and hope that he was serious about that whole 'God wants nothing to do with me' line.

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That should say 'Angelica's'.

Hs skin burns and blisters as the demonic magic is -hopefully- purged from him.

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That should say 'His'.

"H-aa. H-aa. H-aaa."

Mr. Swift is… Not is good health, but there's no sign of demonic activity and his powers appear to be under control. He weakly opens his eyes, makes momentary eye contact with me, then loses consciousness.

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If nothing else, they got at least one potential new ally against Demon Superman. I'm wondering how he would interact with the Shade from Earth 16. Would he know about Simon Culp and inform his counterpart about the dwarf's presence?

 

[Queshire]

Honestly the dark abyss at the bottom of the ocean probably IS a good place for someone with shadow powers.

 

[Darko]

I'm a little surprised someone of his magnitude of power was also defeated and corrupted

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It may not necessarily be a matter of power.

He could have been corrupted due to Hell's unique magic interacting in weird ways with his, or he probably never experienced anything like this before so he had no idea how to counteract it.

Or Demon Superman could have used some magical help from his slaves.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Ha, is collecting allies like pokemon at this point.

First you have to weaken them,then you imprison them in a ball XD