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Yes... If you ignore the simple fact she would have been able to see/sense the magic of the rings and know whether that was a possibility or not...Well saying that it could destroy the sun might be a bit much, but the whole point is that Rainbow didn't know for certain.
Because she's a Pegasus not an Earth Pony.
Which means in non "Grayven is right lecture land" she would have had the basic knowledge of magic necessary to tell at a glance that the rings in question couldn't have done that.
Okay, dial back for a moment.Yes... If you ignore the simple fact she would have been able to see/sense the magic of the rings and know whether that was a possibility or not...
Yeah, Ponies seem really disinclined to worry about anything outside of their herd's territory. In modern terms, their town or city. Probably some kind of instinct tied to their nature as equines. If the threat isn't immediately visible, then surely it no longer exists...27th September 2012
05:52 GMT -7
I've had the local villages under observation for a few days, and it seems that the adults at least make a point of rising just before dawn for what looks like a morning prayer. It's fascinating that a pony culture almost entirely disconnected from mainstream Equestrian society exists so close to Equestria-proper.
I suppose it's due to the transportation-.
...She really doesn't do well with mornings, does she?"Euuuaaarghghuhhh!"
Raindow Dash yawns loudly next to me, sitting on her haunches and stretching out her forelegs and wings.
Well, Ahuizotl had to get goons from somewhere... It's not like there's a rent-a-thug agency for this sort of thing."Miss Dash." I gaze at her reproachfully. "Please remove your feathers from my nostril."
Her wing jerks back. "Ew." She takes a moment to check the snot-free condition of her feathers before ruffling her wings and returning them to her flanks. "Why'd you make me get up this early, anyway? Who are these ponies?"
...Actually do Pony communities even have police, other than something like the Royal Guard? I would assume smaller communities have some manner of shire reeve... I would have to assume larger communities like Manehattan have a police force."Based on their cutie marks and their injuries, these are some of the ponies who were holding Miss Do captive in the fort."
"Hm." She looks up in the air for a moment, then tilts her head downwards, frowning as she tries to puzzle something out. "So… You're not here to arrest anyone."
Against who? Celestia?"No crime has been committed either in a place administered by me, or in Equestria."
"Ah, pretty sure taking control of the sun is a crime."
Ah, comedic overreaction... For when you really need to drive a point home.I say nothing for a moment, then raise my head to its full height and turn my head in the direction of distant Canterlot.
"I mean… I could arrest Celestia. I don't think Luna would appreciate it, mind."
Pfff, ha ha, no."What?" Miss Dash frowns at me, this time. "What do you mean, 'arrest Celestia'?"
"You said that taking control of the sun is a crime. I take it that after the events of our initial meeting you've taken the time to read up on Equestrian law, and thus have become aware that-."
Hopefully while giving her a look so laden with smug, you'd think a Lizard was giving it."Okay, stop." She holds up her right forehoof. "Stop."
I stop.
I mean, it is kind of her thing, these days. Even if managing it only really takes a few minutes at a time."Celestia controls the sun. I mean, usually."
I nod. "That's been true for at least a thousand years, certainly."
Oh, she can learn!"A thousand-? Oh, right, the Heathwarming thing about unicorns doing it."
"But as we established with the Diamond Dogs..?"
"Ah, Celestia can't give ponies something she doesn't own? So she doesn't own the sun?"
Which probably makes the times when things get a little confused in Equestria (Like the Tirek crisis) concerning for other nations..."It's tricky to see what legal system would apply. Equestria doesn't have any off-world stations or starships, so it's difficult to see how you could make an exclusive claim to this star system. And without that, there's no obvious reason why Equestria should be the nation which decides who the sun belongs to."
"Aside from the face that Celestia controls it and has done for a thousand years."
Heck, for all anyone knows, they handled the workings of the Sun long, long before Discord's little period of misrule."The stones that fort were made of had been there for a while. If it was over a thousand years old, who's to say that they don't have a prior claim?"
Yeah, there they go. Ponies leaving their huts and heading to the area in front of the chief's hut. Just as they have each day since the g-elves found this village.
Though she could probably make a good legal case under the logic of 'Well, no-one else was taking care of it...'"Are you saying Celestia stole it?"
"No. I'm saying that given how bad historical records from that era are, we have no way to establish any sort of chain of custody and thus cannot establish ownership. Celestia has discharged her duties as custodian well enough that the planet hasn't burned or frozen, but that doesn't mean it's hers."
My god, you actually made her double-facepalm... Er, face-hoof. Well done!Miss Dash stares at me. Then she closes her eyes, raises her forehooves and presses them to either side of her head. I carry on watching the villagers as the… Chief comes out and joins the front of the herd as the sun first over the horizon and then over the canopy. As one, the village bows, stays bowed for about five seconds, then rises and begins to go about their day.
"You-. You're good at finding things that are wrong with things. Isn't that right?"
Well, that would make dating her sister kind of awkward."I have an instinct for the proper discharge of personal responsibilities, certainly."
"Do you..? Not like Celestia?"
No, Dash, this is not out of jealousy."I'm indifferent to her. Personally, she's quite pleasant. Professionally, she-."
"You want her to have time off 'cause you don't like how she handles the sun! Admit it!"
...Huh. Maybe it is, just a little, then?"Okay. That's part of it."
"What's there not to like about it?!"
I think Chrysalis would need a lot more love energy to manage that. If she even cared to."If, say… Five years ago? Chrysalis infiltrated Canterlot, launched her invasion and killed Celestia, what would have happened with the sun?"
"Ahhhhhhhhhhh… I guess.. it.. would stop moving? Or maybe Chrys-. Wait, Princess Celestia can die?"
Yes, never experiment when your test subjects are not numerous enough to have a breeding population.
I mean... It's been a thousand years. And she started out as a relatively normal pony. Who's to say there wasn't a special somepony long ago? Though such a pony would likely be remembered, if Celestia had anything to say about it..."My kind can die. At least in our normal forms. We don't age, we're tough and our technology is first rate, but we can be killed, even with conventional weapons. I've been assuming that since Starswirl's Mirror rendered me as an alicorn they were about as tough; very, but not insurmountably so. I have a Last Will and Testament. Should I die, I know who will have guardianship of my children and who will be charged with continuing my work."
"Celestia doesn't… Have any foals…" She frowns. "I think. But… Yeah, who would have controlled the sun? Can… Cadance do it?"
I mean, it might well require a certain level of power that freshly elevated Alicorns can't produce. Even if a young alicorn is equal to a hundred Unicorns... What if it took two hundred to move the sun? Three hundred?"I don't think so, but I haven't asked. And I don't know about Twilight Sparkle, but Sunset specifically told me that she wasn't taught how to manage the sun while she was Celestia's student. And hasn't been taught since her return and ascension. Luna told me that she can, but she really wouldn't want to."
"So we… We might actually need it. The fort.. ring things. I mean, I don't want to need it, because something would have to have happened to the princesses. But… It's, like, the whole world."
Unfortunately, since it never got activated, we'll never know...I nod, pleased. "Well done, Miss Dash. You'd be surprised how many people struggle with that lesson."
"I thought you were gunna complain about me destroying it just 'cause it was old." She looks genuinely distressed. "But you mean that you don't think it could override Celestia unless Celestia wasn't there."
Gee, you think? Really got to think before you smash, little pony."Something like that."
"I coulda destroyed the world when I broke those rings."
Boy, your point must be lofty if it can fly over a pegasus' head.
...You could have managed that simply by breaking one. Either it's irreplacable, or he has to spend time remaking it. Either way, his plan is foiled."Did you know what destroying the rings did in advance?"
"Stop Ahuizotl?"
...Oooh, that's a loud silence."Given that you believed that they had the power to control the sun, did you know for certain that their destruction would not destroy it?"
Miss Dash freezes. Just for a moment.
As opposed to destroying a valuable artefact of pre-Equestrian civilisation that could have benefited from having Unicorn scholars study it..."No. I didn't."
"Celestia could move the sun back. Beat up Ahuizotl and his followers and Twilight Sparkle could probably have worked out how to use the rings to put the sun back in the right place. I hear she's quite good at magic. Destroy it and you better be lucky, because if you're not, bad things happen."
And that's what Grayven tries to do: keep the big picture in mind. ...Doesn't always work for him, because Grayven, but hey...Miss Dash gulps. "Yeah."
"Virtuous actions guard against ill fortune. Don't destroy things unless you have to; you might need them. Don't hurt people you don't need to; same reason. If you don't know what's going on, then learn, so you don't do something stupid by mistake. And that's why-."
At least she's reasonably quick on the uptake when you lay it out straight like that."You wanna talk to them, so you can talk to Ahuizotl. 'cause… We don't even really know why he wanted to control the sun, and those guys down there seem to really like it. So they can't have been trying to destroy it."
I nod approvingly. "Yes. Let's go and talk to them."
Yes... If you ignore the simple fact she would have been able to see/sense the magic of the rings and know whether that was a possibility or not...
I'm sorry, since when do they teach about ancient artifacts nobody believes actually exist as part of the standard pegasi lessons? And given how skilled earth ponies are at general craftiness why don't they get similar lessons on NOT destroying unknown magical objects?
I mean, do pegasi have the ability to read enchantments and I just never noticed?
Yeah, Ponies seem really disinclined to worry about anything outside of their herd's territory. In modern terms, their town or city. Probably some kind of instinct tied to their nature as equines. If the threat isn't immediately visible, then surely it no longer exists...
mean... It's been a thousand years. And she started out as a relatively normal pony. Who's to say there wasn't a special somepony long ago? Though such a pony would likely be remembered, if Celestia had anything to say about it
I mean, it might well require a certain level of power that freshly elevated Alicorns can't produce. Even if a young alicorn is equal to a hundred Unicorns... What if it took two hundred to move the sun? Three hundred
You could have managed that simply by breaking one. Either it's irreplacable, or he has to spend time remaking it. Either way, his plan is foiled.
Yes... If you ignore the simple fact she would have been able to see/sense the magic of the rings and know whether that was a possibility or not...
Thank you, corrected.
The Renegade doesn't have all that much to do with her.
Maybe "fact" instead of "face"?"Aside from the face that Celestia controls it and has done for a thousand years."
Our world had to sit down and sort that one out before we even put a man into space. We too decided that nobody owns celestial bodies.No One:
Not A Single Soul:
Grayven: "Yo, who da fuck owns the sun?"
Yes... If you ignore the simple fact she would have been able to see/sense the magic of the rings and know whether that was a possibility or not...
"No. I'm saying that given how bad historical records from that era are, we have no way to establish any sort of chain of custody and thus cannot establish ownership. Celestia has discharged her duties as custodian well enough that the planet hasn't burned or frozen, but that doesn't mean it's hers."
Thank you, corrected.
By that standard, Discord owns the sun. He controlled it before she did and has demonstrated the ability to take it back whenever he can be bothered.And this fool calls himself god of conquest? By this metric nobody owns any piece of land, let alone has sovereignty over it. Celestia has been the sole controller of the local sun. It rises and sets at her pleasure. She owns it more than anyone present in this forum ever owned anything. The only person who could disagree with this assessment is Celestia herself.
1) Grayven has spent quite some time in previous updates complaining about how unnecessary the whole 'manually direct the sun' thing is, with the implication that the star system is as standard and that they could just have everything orbit as normal.
As expected, Brand is waiting outside of his quarters. I don't know if he was waiting for me, or waiting for Dox to allow him in. He spots me at once, but doesn't show any overt sign of surprise at my arrival.
"Brand, what happened? One moment Dox was in fine fettle, then radio silence."
These should all say 'Brande'.I step inside, Brand following immediately behind. The door shuts a second later.
Thank you, corrected.Mr Zoat, I was rereading part of the story and found these errors on one part.
These should all say 'Brande'.
It is unnecessary, in much the same way that, for example, nuclear power is unnecessary. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea to take a sledgehammer to a nuclear pile.1) Grayven has spent quite some time in previous updates complaining about how unnecessary the whole 'manually direct the sun' thing is, with the implication that the star system is as standard and that they could just have everything orbit as normal.
Now he is going out of his way to ensure their 'unnecessary' system continues to be used.
They had a pile of rings that were going to create a magic effect, and they removed parts. Even if they hadn't just broken the rings, that would still count.2) Dash and Do did not, in fact, make any attempt to destroy the artefact and surrounding temple. They dismantled the active part and the whole thing self-destructed. Blame the designers, not the end users.
She is indeed a Pegasus, a specie whose only magic is weather manipulation and nothing else, Dash was never shown as a genius at that either so i don't see why she could understand unknown spellwork of that complexity with only a glance…..Because she's a Pegasus not an Earth Pony.
Which means in non "Grayven is right lecture land" she would have had the basic knowledge of magic necessary to tell at a glance that the rings in question couldn't have done that.
Because you're talking about a conceptual link to the sun of a level where what happens to one would impact the other.She is indeed a Pegasus, a specie whose only magic is weather manipulation and nothing else, Dash was never shown as a genius at that either so i don't see why she could understand unknown spellwork of that complexity with only a glance…..
You make a lot of assumptions about how the MLP magic system work my dude, also the comparison with a working lightbulb make no sense because while indeed it should be easy to see that a spellwork like that use a lot of energy that doesn't mean you understand why it need that energy if your aren't familiar with the spell or magic theory, spell are hardly as obvious as just turning the light on.Because you're talking about a conceptual link to the sun of a level where what happens to one would impact the other.
Something like that would, forgive the pun, burn like the sun, to anyone with even a nascent magical sense.
Or to put it simply, it would be like asking someone to determine if a working lightbulb is on or off by looking at it. IE, utterly simple.
Disputing someone's headcanon with your own headcanon isn't really a sound argument.
This sentence seems to be missing something. Or I am unable to parse it for some other reason.The God of Conquest does not allow astronomers that someone else is living in.
Yes? It's been a long time but it was explicitly stated that he chose to be Conquest in the 'become legitimate in the eye of those who once did not recognize you' sense rather than the 'kill everyone so no one can contest your claim' sense.
Our world had to sit down and sort that one out before we even put a man into space. We too decided that nobody owns celestial bodies.