With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Ngamer11]

I always assumed the way it works was the Danner formula altered the biology of the person to allow them to perform super-human feats. The only energy needed was the energy to create the formula and implement the changes once injected into a person. So it's less like the Garrik formula making them draw energy from the Speed Force more a magic super drug that makes the person invulnerable/super-strong. Though I could be wrong tbh.

Click to shrink...

Remember, this was made with help from some unknown person/being. Paul thought of it possibly being a New God, but had no way to investigate further. I wonder if this will ever come back up?

 

[Bud-E]

Remember, this was made with help from some unknown person/being. Paul thought of it possibly being a New God, but had no way to investigate further. I wonder if this will ever come back up?

Click to shrink...

I don't remember that. When was that said?
BTW does anyone know what vantavendi means? I've googled it and just got this fanfic as a result.

 

[Ngamer11]

I don't remember that. When was that said?
BTW does anyone know what vantavendi means? I've googled it and just got this fanfic as a result.

Click to shrink...

I don't remember when, but Paul was speculating on how the Danner Formula could have been created and thought it might have been developed by a New God. As for the title, Mr Zoat says it means

A small amount of absolute blackness.

Click to shrink...

Though he didn't say in what language.

 

[Stsword]

I always assumed the way it works was the Danner formula altered the biology of the person to allow them to perform super-human feats. The only energy needed was the energy to create the formula and implement the changes once injected into a person. So it's less like the Garrik formula making them draw energy from the Speed Force more a magic super drug that makes the person invulnerable/super-strong. Though I could be wrong tbh.

Click to shrink...

In the comics, which Zoat isn't really following much I admit, the Danner enhanciles get stronger with age.

Iron Monroe, in the prime of his life, was weaker than his father who looked like this

While Iron was in turn stronger than the Sons of Dawn because they were enhanced with an inferior version of the formula made with substitutions Hugo could find in the Amazon rainforest instead of an American lab.

 

[Michael Vonica]

While Iron was in turn stronger than the Sons of Dawn because they were enhanced with an inferior version of the formula made with substitutions Hugo could find in the Amazon rainforest instead of an American lab.

Click to shrink...

And now those substitutions will be provided by a nature goddess.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Though he didn't say in what language.

Click to shrink...

It's a combination of 'vanta' from 'vantablack' and vendi comes from me not understanding Starbucks cup sizes.

 

[Stsword]

And now those substitutions will be provided by a nature goddess.

Click to shrink...

There's been no indication that Zoat has the Sons of Dawn having an inferior version of the Danner formula.

As I've already noted, there isn't much of the story he's actually using.

 

[Michael Vonica]

There's been no indication that Zoat has the Sons of Dawn having an inferior version of the Danner formula.

As I've already noted, there isn't much of the story he's actually using.

Click to shrink...

Okay, but still, Euanthe is going to be the one providing the Danner Formula from now on, right? Through magical plant alchemy, as opposed to DIY jungle laboratory alchemy. Regardless of effectiveness.

 

[Cuchulin]

It's a combination of 'vanta' from 'vantablack' and vendi comes from me not understanding Starbucks cup sizes.

Click to shrink...

Does anyone really understand Starbuck's cup sizes?

 

[Mr Zoat]

21st October 2012
20:27 GMT

Trailing grape vines wrapped around pillars of white marble, friezes decorated in the classical style and a small band in the corner playing medieval music.

And a colossally corpulent demon sitting on a throne at the head of the room.

"Illustres, m'boy!" Mammon smiles broadly, raising… In all fairness, relatively muscular arms, in greeting. "What can the President of Hell do for you today?"

I take a moment to look around. "I see that you've remodelled."

"My power rests on the support of my subjects… But it's my power. I felt that the Greek model of an enlightened tyrant was better than anything suggesting hereditary.. kingship."

"And styling yourself as a king would suggest that you ultimately wanted direct control of all nine circles, whereas if you look fat and happy-"

"Which I do and am!"

"-it reassures the others that you aren't interested in the Crown of Horns. Though on the subject of expansion, have you appointed a ruler to The Odium yet? I imagine that putting one of the senior Renderers-."

"Ah." He actually manages to look a little awkward. "No. As it turns out, there was an outstanding candidate. So outstanding, in fact, that appointing anyone else would have looked ridiculous. And since my ruling council is consent-based…"

"Anyone I need to worry about?"

"Did you have any dealings with Lucifer?"

"Not knowingly."

"And how do you feel about a cosmology ruled by a single, all-powerful, all-knowing and all-righteous divinity?"

"I'm against it. I'd rather that people be free to make a mess of things."

"Then I imagine that the two of you would get on well enough. She was something of a Lucifer-loyalist, but that ardour appears to have been dimmed by him abandoning creation."

"He's gone? You're sure that he's actually left?"

"With beings like Lucifer it's almost impossible to be completely certain. But Lady Mazikeen was his consort for a very long time. If she thinks that he's gone, then it's as good as true." He leans forward slightly. "Unless you know differently?"

I shake my head. "No. I'm just relieved that I've got one less arbitrarily powerful entity to deal with."

"I ask because there's been a certain amount of… Idle speculation. Concerning your true nature."

"I've been fairly open about my origin."

"Yes, but we're not known for honesty or faithfulness down here, and we're biased to assuming that others share our habits. Your appearance in the wake of his final vanishing act, your attitudes, your ascent in the ranks of power… Your mystically-obscured name, even your totemic bond with a great serpent-."

"You think I'm Lucifer?"

"The possibility has been mooted. In certain circles."

"You think I'm actually Lucifer, or just some creation of his?"

"Lucifer would be perfectly capable of granting an aspect of his character their own agency. Though it would be uncharacteristic for him to create someone purely as a pawn."

"To the best of my knowledge, I am neither Lucifer nor a creation of his."

"But it's not as if we can check, is it? But…" He waves his right hand. "Idle speculation. And we've drifted away from the subject of your visit."

"I'm looking for the soul of a woman named Jill Carlyle. Died a few hours ago after murdering quite a few people."

"If she came to Hell and retained coherence, she would have gone to Internecia. I will summon the lists."

"There are a few other names I'd like to check out as well." I fabricate an updated list of Crimson Avenger's victims and-. And pass it to a demonic flunky in robes who scurries across the floor and up the podium to Mammon's side with remarkable speed. "Would-be heroes who might have-."

A huge book resting on an equally huge lectern appears next to Mammon, cover opening and pages turning as he looks over my list.

After a few moments the book stops.

"No. Nothing for a recent inductee named Jill Carlyle and nothing for any of these people." He smiles. "What a remarkably virtuous collection."

"Okay, do you have anything on their sins? I assume that those would be recorded even if they didn't end up coming here?"

"Yes, we're subcontractors for a variety of places that find it more efficient for us to do their legwork for them." He smiles. "Sloth. It was such a wonderful invention."

He claps his hands and another lectern with an even larger book appears on his opposite side. The pages don't move, prompting a mild frown.

"Strange."

He grips the cover with his left hand and starts flicking through it with his right, slowly at first but quickly gathering speed until the pages move in a blur, the back cover slamming shut a moment alter.

"Problem?"

"Nothing. According to our records, not one of them so much as coveted their neighbour's ass for even a moment."

"Is that possible?"

"The odds against it are steep, to say the least. Were they all warrior-saints raised in monasteries?"

"One was a nazi. Several of them were killers."

"Do you know what this means?"

"Demons are failing to detect sins?"

He looks horrified.

"We'll be ruined! I've built my premiership on the idea that I'm a safe pair of hands, and I had no idea that someone was dodging-. People come up with ways of dodging Hell all the time, and some of them work for decades. This, we didn't even know this was happening!"

The musicians stop, cringing. Mammon notices and waves at them to carry on as he calms himself.

"I can trust you to investigate?"

He nods, the books and lecterns vanishing in a puff of pure white cloud. "For my own sake, as much as anything else."

"Thank you. And don't feel too bad about it. You found out because of your alliance with me. The other Lords of Hell don't have anything similar."

"That you know about. But you're right; that might mollify them. Bless it, we need to get on this immediately. Do you have any idea what might have caused this?"

"The murderer was using possessed handguns, but-."

"Wouldn't have been enough. Even if the demon in the guns got greedy, we'd still have a record of their sins. What gun was it?"

"I don't know their names. The guns the Crimson Avenger used to use."

"Them? Yes, we know who they are." He heaves his bulk out of his seat and strolls down the podium. "Why don't we go call 'em up right away?"

 

[Massgamer]

Now this is getting even more interesting, since it seems like the guns were doing more than just killing people.

Could they be soul destroying their victims so they leave no record of their sins?

 

[Darko]

Then I imagine that the two of you would get on well enough. She was something of a Lucifer-loyalist

Click to shrink...

Hmm, Mazikeen.

When he mentioned Odium I thought it would be that weird fat creature Mazikeen was "married" to once.

The guy did seem to be very good with machinery.

Even drilled a hole into God's mind.

I shake my head. "No. I'm just relieved that I've got one less arbitrarily powerful entity to deal with

Click to shrink...

Don't bet on that.

"Lucifer would be perfectly capable of granting an aspect of his character their own agency. Though it would be uncharacteristic for him to create someone purely as a pawn

Click to shrink...

True, the guy is all about free will.

I mean, he'd still use you as a pawn but you'll have great chance, a small one, of becoming your own individual.

No. Nothing for a recent inductee named Jill Carlyle and nothing for any of these people." He smiles. "What a remarkably virtuous collection."

Click to shrink...

That's...one way to look at them.

slowly at first by quickly gathering

Click to shrink...

'but quickly'

against it are steep, so say the least.

Click to shrink...

'to say the'

Where they all warrior-saints raised in monasteries?"

Click to shrink...

'Were they all'

Bless it, we

Click to shrink...

Ahh, demonic cursing.

 

[Ngamer11]

I take a moment to look around. "I see that you've remodelled."

"My power rests on the support of my subjects… But it's my power. I felt that the Greek model of an enlightened tyrant was better than anything suggesting hereditary.. kingship."

Click to shrink...

That's not going to draw unwanted attention from Hades is it? Because he was not too long ago got ticked off by the Silver City taking something that rightfully belongs to him.

"I ask because there's been a certain amount of… Idle speculation. Concerning your true nature."

"I've been fairly open about my origin."

"Yes, but we're not known for honesty or faithfulness down here, and we're biased to assuming that others share our habits. Your appearance in the wake of his final vanishing act, your attitudes, your ascent in the ranks of power… Your mystically-obscured name, even your totemic bond with a great serpent-."

"You think I'm Lucifer?"

"The possibility has been mooted. In certain circles."

"You think I'm actually Lucifer, or just some creation of his?"

"Lucifer would be perfectly capable of granting an aspect of his character their own agency. Though it would be uncharacteristic for him to create someone purely as a pawn."

"To the best of my knowledge, I am neither Lucifer nor a creation of his."

"But it's not as if we can check, is it? But…" He waves his right hand. "Idle speculation. And we've drifted away from the subject of your visit."

Click to shrink...

I really didn't expect this. How many demons really think Paul is related to Lucifer in some way? This also makes me wish he and Paul would meet and find that they like each other's company.

"Do you know what this means?"

"Demons are failing to detect sins?"

He looks horrified.

"We'll be ruined! I've built my premiership on the idea that I'm a safe pair of hands, and I had no idea that someone was dodging-. People come up with ways of dodging Hell all the time, and some of them work for decades. This, we didn't even know this was happening!"

Click to shrink...

This seems like some long con which will come to a head soon. Is someone in Hell doing what the Silver City recently did and using souls as some sort of battery?

"The murderer was using possessed handguns, but-."

"Wouldn't have been enough. Even if the demon in the guns got greedy, we'd still have a record of their sins. What gun was it?"

"I don't know their names. The guns the Crimson Avenger used to use."

"Them? Yes, we know who they are." He heaves his bulk out of his seat and strolls down the podium. "Why don't we go call 'em up right away?"

Click to shrink...

Is this going to be a new character, or an obscure one? Because the only one I can think of are the Arkannone.

 

[In search for story's]

There's three possible criteria for the culprit

1. absurdly powerful cosmic entity

2. Impossibly skilled magus with powerful artifact

3. a know nothing fool lucky enough to come across a macguffin

 

[Mr Zoat]

'but quickly'
'to say the'
'Were they all'

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

"Problem?"

"Nothing. According to our records, not one of them so much as coveted their neighbours ass for even a moment."

"Is that possible?"

"The odds against it are steep, so say the least. Where they all warrior-saints raised in monasteries?"

"One was a nazi. Several of them were killers."

"Do you know what this means?"

Click to shrink...

The guns metaphysically wiped out their sins?

 

[Silverias]

Are...the guns REDEEMING the people they kill?

 

[Kalem_Lee]

Either Smiley is pulling the same trick he did on Paul or someone made Oblivion Bullets.
Both are terrible things.

 

[Prince Charon]

Does anyone really understand Starbuck's cup sizes?

Click to shrink...

I generally just say 'largest size,' since paying attention to pretentious terminology isn't something I'm going to bother with if I'm in that much need of coffee. I'm almost certainly not the only one who does something like that.

Are...the guns REDEEMING the people they kill?

Click to shrink...

I don't think that's what they did in the comics, but this isn't the same timeline as the comics.

 

[Bud-E]

Paul being an aspect of Lucifer makes a lot of sense when you think about it. If Zoat decided to make it true it wouldn't be a bad twist.

 

[Prince Charon]

Paul being an aspect of Lucifer makes a lot of sense when you think about it. If Zoat decided to make it true it wouldn't be a bad twist.

Click to shrink...

It's not like we can prove that Zoat isn't an aspect of Lucifer (proving a negative is rather tricky).

 

[I_S]

Huh, to be honest, would Paul know if he was unbound aspect of lucifer that had a fake set of memories made.

I mean we know he's not, but we only know that because of the big SI tag on the story. To the paul in the story his origin is More mythically unreachable than krypton, or shangri-la. Its a world he can't interact with even during an infinite crisis. It would be equally plot relevant if it didn't exist at all.


Its only his own arrogance that makes him assume he's an out of context problem and not the creation of a well informed Power.

 

[Darko]

That's not going to draw unwanted attention from Hades is it? Because he was not too long ago got ticked off by the Silver City taking something that rightfully belongs to him.

Click to shrink...

I don't think he'd care about someone copying some Greek looks and style, so long as no one messes with souls that belong to him.

Paul being an aspect of Lucifer makes a lot of sense when you think about it. If Zoat decided to make it true it wouldn't be a bad twist.

Click to shrink...

Huh, to be honest, would Paul know if he was unbound aspect of lucifer that had a fake set of memories made.

I mean we know he's not, but we only know that because of the big SI tag on the story. To the paul in the story his origin is More mythically unreachable than krypton, or shangri-la. Its a world he can't interact with even during an infinite crisis. It would be equally plot relevant if it didn't exist at all.


Its only his own arrogance that makes him assume he's an out of context problem and not the creation of a well informed Power.

Click to shrink...

You know I'm kinda reminded of how the author of A Subtle Knife was planning on ending his story and what he was planning for his SI.

 

[Istaran]

Huh, to be honest, would Paul know if he was unbound aspect of lucifer that had a fake set of memories made.

Click to shrink...

It would explain why he is so omnipresent and varied, and important enough to the timeline to be worthy of sticking on a tuning fork.

 

[Cuchulin]

I generally just say 'largest size,' since paying attention to pretentious terminology isn't something I'm going to bother with if I'm in that much need of coffee. I'm almost certainly not the only one who does something like that.

Click to shrink...

Indeed, easier just to use the old standard terms everyone used to use. They'll know WTF you mean by medium or large easier than if you try using the weird bull$h!t terms someone invented.

 

[Stsword]

Are...the guns REDEEMING the people they kill?

Click to shrink...

Well Ragman's suit does a similar thing- Anyone whose soul his suit eats is trapped, empowering Ragman by letting him borrow their abilities or tanking his attacks for him.

And when they have helped enough, or suffered enough in his place, the soul leaves, cleansed of all sins.

So maybe Zoat was inspired by that.

 

[PrinceJonathan]

Now this is getting even more interesting, since it seems like the guns were doing more than just killing people.

Could they be soul destroying their victims so they leave no record of their sins?

Click to shrink...

What if it's not the guns, but the bullets? Would demon-possessed guns know if the bullets they fire are also possessed by another demon?

 

[moralrelativity]

But you're right; that might mollify them. Bless it, we need to get on this immediately.

Click to shrink...

"Bless it" made me smile. I'm going to start cursing that way and my friends are going to be SO confused.

 

[Vaermina]

"And how do you feel about a cosmology ruled by a single, all-powerful, all-knowing and all-righteous divinity?"

"I'm against it. I'd rather that people be free to make a mess of things."

Click to shrink...

Sucks to be you then.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

It's not like we can prove that Zoat isn't an aspect of Lucifer (proving a negative is rather tricky).

Click to shrink...

The real twist would be IRL Zoat revealing himself in public to be Lucifer.