With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Rockinalice]

Greek nations fought each other all the time. It was only a big deal because of how successful she was.

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Thats the point what Herc did to them isn't anything special considering that stuff like that was happening all the time all over the world. It's only special because it involved Them and demigods (which in that time in DC demigods where common)

 

[PDV]

"Ah, there is Sekhmet? But I do not think that she is 'spare'?"

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Sekhmet is a pretty good "slightly more reasonable Ares", she'd be a pretty good replacement.

 

[Bud-E]

You'd think he'd have asked the Amazons about that.

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In the comic where that happened none of the Amazons were aware he was there they all thought he ascended and became a full God. Why they weren't told that their island's serial rapist was their sole support pillar I dont know.

 

[Finagle007]

In the comic where that happened none of the Amazons were aware he was there they all thought he ascended and became a full God. Why they weren't told that their island's serial rapist was their sole support pillar I dont know.

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Because if they knew he was being tormented for his crimes, one day they might forgive him and let him out once they felt he'd suffered enough. Whoever put him there didn't want him forgiven, they wanted him to suffer. And since they don't know he's suffering and think he got off scot free for what he did, they'll just keep on hating him, and anyone trying to tell them the truth would be scorned and driven off or killed.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Thats the point what Herc did to them isn't anything special considering that stuff like that was happening all the time all over the world. It's only special because it involved Them and demigods (which in that time in DC demigods where common)

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Him conquering them is extra bad because 1) he did it under flag of truce and 2) he raped a lot of the inhabitants. If he hadn't done either of those things then yes, it wouldn't be any worse than what the previous generation of Amazons had done.

 

[Coda]

"But he doesn't have a spare one, and the only person who can make me one in Himon, and he's on Apokolips."

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is Himon

And Hera was much much worse yet you forgave her in seconds.

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Hera, y'know, changed her behavior. OL forgives very readily when people reform.

 

[Rockinalice]

Him conquering them is extra bad because 1) he did it under flag of truce and 2) he raped a lot of the inhabitants. If he hadn't done either of those things then yes, it wouldn't be any worse than what the previous generation of Amazons had done.

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I will completely agree the first one being the Bad Act since for a beings like Herc and in that time breaking a Flag of Truth (which is basically his Word) is almost always unforgivable.
The Raping (which is a Bad and shouldn't be forgiven) in that time wasn't uncommon and is expected when your forces conquered a town (city etc..) it was going to happen.

But i will agree that doing it under a Flag of Truce is what makes it Bad.l for that time period

 

[ForeverShogo]

Well, as pointed out, Solomon didn't try to cut a child in half. He just said he was going to do it to determine which woman cared more about the well-being of the child. If anyone should get that kind of remark it should be the woman who was like, "I'm totally fine with getting half a child."

Also, this whole track about spreading Hellenism and proselytizing on behalf of the Greek gods is kind of weird to me. You look at all the stuff about them and it's just, like, are you sure you want these fuckers more involved in mortal affairs? Near as I can recall, the number of Greek gods that aren't absolute garbage can be counted on one hand.

Beyond that, I'm kind of hoping Billy takes Zauriel up on his offer. It'd amuse me given Paul apparently seems willing to suggest he seek patronage from any source other than Heaven.

 

[Mr Zoat]

is Himon

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Thank you, corrected.

I will completely agree the first one being the Bad Act since for a beings like Herc and in that time breaking a Flag of Truth (which is basically his Word) is almost always unforgivable.
The Raping (which is a Bad and shouldn't be forgiven) in that time wasn't uncommon and is expected when your forces conquered a town (city etc..) it was going to happen.

But i will agree that doing it under a Flag of Truce is what makes it Bad.l for that time period

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We were comparing it to what the Amazons did, and for obvious reasons they generally didn't rape people when they conquered places.

Well, as pointed out, Solomon didn't try to cut a child in half. He just said he was going to do it to determine which woman cared more about the well-being of the child. If anyone should get that kind of remark it should be the woman who was like, "I'm totally fine with getting half a child."

Also, this whole track about spreading Hellenism and proselytizing on behalf of the Greek gods is kind of weird to me. You look at all the stuff about them and it's just, like, are you sure you want these fuckers more involved in mortal affairs? Near as I can recall, the number of Greek gods that aren't absolute garbage can be counted on one hand.

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Market forces will force them to buck their ideas up. Also, they're being vetted.

 

[rkyeun]

Id like to note Zeus has a bastard daughter running around.....not doing anything.

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"A"?
Good luck finding all of Zeus's bastard sons and daughters.

 

[Stsword]

Puh, who is left?

The nordic pantheon? Or would that be to Marvel?

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If Zoat is using Thunderbolt Jaxon, Albion's sequel, the Norse Gods might have died offscreen.

A British kid get's Thor's belt, which allows him to transform, it ends with the Asgardians moving on if I remember correctly.

 

[Vaermina]

We were comparing it to what the Amazons did, and for obvious reasons they generally didn't rape people when they conquered places.

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Yes they did...

That was one of the ways they kept their numbers up...

The other of course being raiding a town and taking female children while butchering everyone else.

 

[Darko]

Near as I can recall, the number of Greek gods that aren't absolute garbage can be counted on one hand.

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And that's if you lose more than one finger.

Beyond that, I'm kind of hoping Billy takes Zauriel up on his offer. It'd amuse me given Paul apparently seems willing to suggest he seek patronage from any source other than Heaven.

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Heaven did harm him ore than any other pantheon.

Though if Zauriel sponsors him then at least the Wizard won't need to change his name.

Market forces will force them to buck their ideas up. Also, they're being vetted.

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Yeah, most mortals may no longer feel like they need to accept their gods being douchebags.

If Zoat is using Thunderbolt Jaxon, Albion's sequel, the Norse Gods might have died offscreen.

A British kid get's Thor's belt, which allows him to transform, it ends with the Asgardians moving on if I remember correctly.

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He's not using that since they've been confirmed as being alive due to the Einherjar.

 

[Bud-E]

Mr Zoat what's Zauriel been up to recently and has Christianity taken any major hits since they killed and resurrected a huge chunk of the population?

 

[Stsword]

He's not using that since they've been confirmed as being alive due to the Einherjar.

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Last we saw.

Which is why I typed they "might have died" offscreen.

 

[Ardy]

Mr Zoat what's Zauriel been up to recently and has Christianity taken any major hits since they killed and resurrected a huge chunk of the population?

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Yeah, Paul and Zauriel agreed to bury the hatchet but they haven't had any hilarious "I forgive this person" "Does that mean I can't kill them?" interactions since the whole Heaven Invasion fiasco.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat what's Zauriel been up to recently

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Stuff. I haven't thought about it.

and has Christianity taken any major hits since they killed and resurrected a huge chunk of the population?

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Sort of. Zauriel's been pretty clear that they don't get spoken-word instructions from God and weren't specifically told to do what they did, but that was a lot. On the other hand, definitive proof that their afterlife exists.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

"I will ask her on your behalf, but I do not know. Is there no one else you could ask?"

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.....Would Paul be able to take up the role of a War God himself? There are a few Greek myths that have mortal humans become gods (though, if memory serves, more get turned into constellations for some reason).

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Glad I'm not the only one thinking this. OL getting 'volunteered' for the job if he can't find someone suitable, in a kind of 'you break it, you bought it' situation for kicking off the whole can of worms.

...and he does seem to have qualifications, what with ending the Citadel as a local power, as well as the planet of eye biters, and the whole 'I will be systemically destroying your planets until your champion shows up to stop me' thing he did with the spider guild. He may not usually go in for endorsing bloodlust, but he has pragmatic ruthlessness down pat. And espoused good war virtues, like not wanting to engage in 'diplomacy by other means' without first trying to find an acceptable nonviolent compromise. And when he makes those offers, he has always been 100% sincere - which is a breath of fresh air considering current IRL events.

And he apparently has a problem with leaning magics, on account of current instructions non accounting for his nonstandard soul (which sounds like BS what whatever). if he did undergo apotheosis, then he would have access to some intuitive magics related to his domains.

 

[Darko]

Stuff. I haven't thought about it.

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Last we saw of him he agreed to help the Terror Twins' mom with her alcoholism.

Maybe aside from doing superhero related things he also tries to help addicts overcome their addictions.

 

[Ardy]

Last we saw of him he agreed to help the Terror Twins' mom with her alcoholism.

Maybe aside from doing superhero related things he also tries to help addicts overcome their addictions.

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And flirting with that mortal girl he had the hots for.

 

[woweed]

.....Would Paul be able to take up the role of a War God himself? There are a few Greek myths that have mortal humans become gods (though, if memory serves, more get turned into constellations for some reason).

The boost would not only empower Paul (probably), but might even help with the Reach war he's waging.

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I don't think Paulragon really fits that.

Also, quick, someone find every major mythological figure with a Z name. (Of course, the S was the hard one. We wanted to do "Wit of Sisyphus", but Zeus refused to let him off the leash, and Shazam has...Issues with Styx and Scylla, so he decided to look in another pantheon.)

 

[Stsword]

I don't think Paulragon really fits that.

Also, quick, someone find every major mythological figure with a Z name. (Of course, the S was the hard one. We wanted to do "Wit of Sisyphus", but Zeus refused to let him off the leash, and Shazam has...Issues with Styx and Scylla, so he decided to look in another pantheon.)

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That doesn't seem to matter actually.

Spoiler

The wizard gave Shaggy the persistence of Sisyphus with the magic word....Zoinks.

 

[Darko]

That doesn't seem to matter actually.

Spoiler

The wizard gave Shaggy the persistence of Sisyphus with the magic word....Zoinks.

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I get the powers he's getting, but what does "Neptune's Depth" give him?

 

[Mr Zoat]

29th October 2012
03:45 GMT +3

Olympus has already started to change.

Hephaestaean told me that he considered teleporting his old workshop up here, then decided that it wouldn't be worth it. His expertise has expanded so much that it would be easier to just start again… Not that he's had time, or is likely to have time in the near future. But an oval-shaped deliberative chamber has replaced Zeus's feasting room, and… Dolmen Gates that look suspiciously like stargates have appeared near to convenient points of egress. Did he put his head together with Hecate, or has his domain expanded to the point where he can invent novel arcanotechnology without anyone's help?

Idle curiosity. Not important right now, and I actively want to flip the table so it's not really a problem -for me- if something goes a little off-script.

The other matter, on the other hand…

"I beg your pardon, my lord, but we aren't really set up to receive guests at the moment. If you had sent word ahead I would have ensured that Hephaestaean was here to greet you."

Susano-o-no-Mikoto nods politely.

"The honourable representative has no need to apologise. This humble one was impetuously overwhelmed by curiosity. It has been a great deal of time since the Gods of Japan have had direct contact with the Gods of Olympus."

Even I caught that jab. One side has a country, the other side has a hill with delusions of grandeur. But they're not exactly in competition. The Olympians might be work shy, but they don't have the same need to take advantage of their brief moment of fame to secure their metaphysiques and make themselves into something that Johnny-come-latelies do.

I smile politely at Lady Liberty, who smiles back just as honestly. She's gone for the classical robes that look classy to most modern people but just look a little off to someone used to Themysciran clothing. I'll be interested to see if she actually sounds French.

"You are welcome to visit for as long as you like, but I am afraid that we will be poor hosts at present."

"It seems to me that you're the person to talk to if we want to get something done around here."

Ah. Transatlantic, with just a hint of a French accent. How marvellously fake.

"Madam, I may properly be likened to a sixty year old sea mine: reasonably safe if left to my own devices, but prone to explode if prodded. The question of whether or not I can 'get things done' is not precisely relevant."

"Alright, then let's save us the trouble of you and Mister Mikoto talking around each other for hours. Hephaestus wants to rebuild his pantheon into something that humans all over the world will worship. But how about trying something different?"

"We're already working on aliens, if that's what you mean."

"I mean, why not make it part of a wider revival of other faiths?"

"Lack of a personal stake."

"Oh?" She raises her eyebrows. "Your negotiations with the Silver City resulted in necromancers being able to reach their dead for the first time in history, and your provocation turned more waverers away from their 'default' religion. Superheroes are already objects of reverence. Do you know how many people worship Superman?"

"'Worship' as in 'literally pray to', or as in 'revere greatly'?"

"Why split hairs? The Roman Catholics had indulgences and crucifixes. He has t-shirts and posable action figures. People all across the world cheer on his deeds, wear his symbol and call out to him in times of hardship."

"The difference may only exist in peoples' minds, but it does exist there. There's a big difference between passively accepting converts and actively proselytising. And yes, I do know roughly how many people worship him and I know roughly what he thinks of them. He has absolutely no desire to be a god."

"Then he should consider being less godly."

Susano-o-no-Mikoto looks a little uncomfortable at how assertive she's being, but he holds his tongue.

"Our pantheon is expanding into new markets. People shouldn't be tied to contracts with gods they don't want. But that doesn't mean we have to compete."

"To paraphrase G'kar, I have no desire to replace a monopoly with another monopoly. I'm helping Hephaestaean because he took a big risk to help me and I owe him at least this much. Look, could you explain what you actually want and leave convincing me until after I've said 'no'?"

"My proposal is that non-monotheistic religions should act in concert… At least, in the initial stages, in order to normalise theological pluralism and defray potential backlash."

"Not a terrible idea. But the founding gods of Shinto are already worshipped by the Japanese, and… No one else. You've been expanding by recruiting people like you, who are already revered in other places. The Olympians are going to be trying to convert people who've heard of them but see them as something other."

"Greater risk of failure, but with that comes a greater potential reward. We'd like to improve your odds and take a little of the reward ourselves. I've read the digest version of your thaumic research write-ups. Earth has more than enough raw magic to sustain all of its gods. And people are mentally flexible enough to accept gods with overlapping responsibilities. We could form a united pantheon for the entire world."

"A trade association?"

"By setting certain standards of behavior, we could limit the influence of those who… Struggle to remember that we're here to work with mortals. You may find our help useful if some of the Othrysians don't cope very well with freedom."

Ah… This is what I get for not having a plan in place: people expecting me to decide things. I mean, I could just say 'Hail Eris' and ignore the issue, but I don't think-.

"This one apologises for interrupting this most worthy discussion, but this one had been under the impression that there were no other gods in residence."

I turn, following his gaze upwards to the true summit of Mount Olympus, the counterpart of 'the Throne of Zeus' of the material mountain. On the absolute peak, a man holds his arms over his head in triumph.

"There… Aren't. Please excuse me while I go and find out who that is."

I fly towards the man, who lowers his arms and starts to look around and appreciate the view. He's dressed like a mountaineer from the mid-twentieth century, back when silk and tweed were the clothing of choice rather than modern thermals. His chin is covered in a mid-length black beard, and there's a small amount of black hair poking out from under his hat at the back. He has a climbing axe in his right hand-. No, strapped to the stump of his right forearm, a loop of rope slung over his shoulder and a heavy pack on his back.

He turns back my way, sees me and waves his left hand before sitting down on the rock and doffing his pack. "Ho, Lantern!"

"Hello? I'm sorry, but we're not really open for business at the moment."

"I know. Kratos told me that you were hiring, so I thought I should be proactive and apply for the job in person."

"Ah, well, I appreciate it, Mister..?"

"Týr. Or call me Tyr; I know English-speakers don't like the accents."

"Oh. Excellent. I actually recommended you for the position two years ago, so I'm very glad that you're here. Um, what's in the bag?"

He wraps his hook around the straps holding the back closed and tugs, revealing...

"Five thousand years' worth of references. I'm eager to join a pantheon that's as proactive as I am, so I thought I should make a strong impression. How am I doing?"

 

[thepsyborg]

Oh I like this guy.

 

[hance1986]

2 related things. Would actually like to see Paul meet Hercules and what static comes out of that. Also Paul meeting Odin and how that shakes out.

 

[Whenever Possible]

Superman isn't the one who needs to be taught to look less like a god, people need to be taught that considering people to be gods dependant on how they look is wrong

-the GEoM, abridgedly

 

[NightmareWarden]

Aw. If Barda didn't get it, I was hoping Prometheus would show up as a god of War and Peace (covering fringe activities like economic disruption and spycraft).

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

I wonder where Loki sits on the spectrum of "actively wants to watch the world burn because it would be funny, had monster kids who wanted to destroy the world from birth and deserved everything he got" to "trickster who was compelled to solve basically all of the Aesir's problems, including the ones he didn't cause, was punished wildly out of proportion whenever he did do something, had all his not attractive children bound, exiled and/or enslaved and has been tortured for unknown millennia while chained to a rock with the entrails of his attractive children".

 

[Darko]

His expertise has expanded so much that it would be easier to just start again… Not that he's had time, or is likely to have time in the near future

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Yeah, restructuring the political landscape of Olympis is going to take up his time.

Though he may want to go back to basics to take a break.

But a oval-shaped

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"But an oval"

Did he put his head together with Hecate, or has his domain expanded to the point where he can invent novel arcanotechnology without anyone's help?

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Or maybe he already knew how to make some of this stuff previously.

been a great deal of time the Gods of

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"time since"

Even I caught that jab

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Yeah, the Olympians control a mountain while the Shinto a country.

The Olympians might be work shy, but they don't have the same need to take advantage of their brief moment of fame to secure their metaphysiques and make themselves into something that Johnny-come-latelies do.

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Most can tell you who the Olympians are, but few outside of Japan can tell you anything about the Shinto.

"Madam, I may properly be likened to a sixty year old sea mine: reasonably safe if left to my own devices, but prone to explode if prodded

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This is an apt description.

"By setting certain standards of behavior, we could limit the influence of those who… Struggle to remember that we're here to work with mortals. You may find our help useful if some of the Othrysians don't cope very well with freedom

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She has a point.

You don't want eldritch gods walking around and causing chaos.

"Hello? I'm sorry, but we're not really open for business at the moment."

"I know. Kratos told me that you were hiring, so I thought I should be proactive and apply for the job in person."

"Ah, well, I appreciate it, Mister..?"

"Týr. Or call me Tyr; I know English-speakers don't like the accents."

"Oh. Excellent. I actually recommended you for the position two years ago, so I'm very glad that you're here. Um, what's in the bag?"

He wraps his hook around the straps holding the back closed and tugs, revealing...

"Five thousand years worth of references. I'm eager to join a pantheon that's as proactive as I am, so I though I should make a strong impression. How am I doing

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So that reader that suggested Tyr was right.