With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

m_d · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The Irish are British. The British Isles are the islands in the sea north of France. We don't call it Great Britain because it's a wonderful place, we call it that because it's the largest of the British Isles.

I think that it's one of those things that's correct and incorrect at the same time depending on the frame of reference. At a political level, if the Irish were British (where British is used to refer to the people of the Kingdom of Great Britain) in the political/societal/cultural sense, then the 1801-1922 official appellation for the nation wouldn't have needed to be "The Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", or subsequently, "The Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", because it would have been redundant. Geographically, Ireland is one of the British Isles, but that doesn't inherently make Irish people British if you're referring to them in non-geographic terms.

Syphi · Jun 6, 2022

And that is what we call shooting yourself in the foot and not knowing when to stop answering questions. Enjoyable read.

m_d · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
new Americanan

American

Mr Zoat said:
Boss Smiler's

"Smiley", unless that's a dialect thing.

Mr Zoat said:
Probably not going to go through my armour, but it's magical and I should assume things

I think that probably was intended to be "I shouldn't assume things", but I could see it working as written, even if it's not the usual way it's done.

Pinklestia · Jun 6, 2022

All I got from Johnny Reb is a supergirl villain.

Khettien · Jun 6, 2022

Pinklestia said:
All I got from Johnny Reb is a supergirl villain.

'Johnny Reb' was slang for the soldiers of the American Civil War fighting for the south. (Excuse me, South.)

Ngamer11 · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Blood and powered kaahuite. Where did he get that-? They're pumping blood mixed with solid pieces of evil into him. Because that makes it count as his blood? Blood type… A Positive, naturally. Install filter and disintegrator.

I don't remember what kaahuite is. Can you remind us Mr Zoat?

Mr Zoat said:
"And how exactly-?" His eyes dip down. "Your feet are glowing, boy."

He lunges, brand burning into the armour of my helmet as I redirect a construct upwards from below, and smile at him.

"So are yours."

Construct hands punch up through the pavement and drag him down!

An old but useful trick. Sometimes, you don't have to do anything particularly clever or complicated to take down a powerful foe, you just have to do something a little unexpected.

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
joke not to long ago

"not too long"

Mr Zoat said:
ring of stars moving the to rim.

"to the rim"

Mr Zoat said:
A people, a political community, are not defined by lines on a map, boy. Elsewise, every nigger born in the country would be the equal of every white man. It's culture. And while I will admit that I have taken a licking, I'm going to hang on until the final bell

I know you said you may not kill anyone here because of mind control issues, but i really hope this racist shot bag dies.

Mr Zoat said:
but I focused to much on Johnny

"too much"

Mr Zoat said:
Leading to Uncle Sam, strapped to a gurney, chest bare and with the left side… Cut open. Tubes of… Something, are being fed into it and flow from it. Not sure what's happening there but I doubt that it was done with friendly intentions

Hmm, seeing that this place is symbolism, this could be a reflection of the Badlands trying to undermine and corrupt left-leaning politics.

And it would fit Smiley since he dislikes change and the left typically us all for change.

Mr Zoat said:
free Uncle Sam and have bit beat

"have him beat"

Mr Zoat said:
magical and I should assume things

"shouldn't"

And it's not like that stopped you before.

Mr Zoat said:
"Corruption is a tool, boy. Boss Smiley opposes change that he doesn't control. Why would ah want to change a perfect civilisation? Why would ah want less control

Yea, he mentioned why fix something that isn't broken.

Coltsguy · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Then I have no reason to leave you alive."

I should not enjoy this sentence as much as I am.

9adam4 · Jun 6, 2022

m_d said:
Geographically, Ireland is one of the British Isles,

But it's a different island than Great Britain. So "The Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" is not redundant.

Vaermina · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Yes. One hundred eighteen-. One hundred sixteen-.

Got it, drill down.

Sure is lucky the ring drain stopped immediately after he asked this. Because otherwise with the rate it was going down he would be at negative ring change by the time he freed Uncle Sam.

Rafin · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The Irish are British. The British Isles are the islands in the sea north of France. We don't call it Great Britain because it's a wonderful place, we call it that because it's the largest of the British Isles.

Them's fighting words.

ForeverShogo · Jun 6, 2022

Also kind of want to say that technically slavery is still legal in the United States. You can be made a slave as punishment for a crime. But talking about how we use prison labor would probably violate the rules.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
7th November 2012
Roughly 10:58 GMT -5

Okay, new Americanan, and I've got no idea what he represents. He looks like Uncle Sam, though his hair's a little longer and… More dishevelled? His smile is a little more manic as well, giving the discordant impression that he heard a hilarious joke not to long ago and is about to share it with me.

"Who, then?"

I'm sure he has many things he considers jokes. Basic human rights, freedom, racial equality... All the good things that the real Sam would be fighting for. Which is going to make his eventual defeat all the sweeter.

"Boy, ah am disappointed. The way Boss Smiler's been carrying on about you, ah thought you'd have me all added up the moment ah stepped down from that there chair."

"One of his favourites, then. Or an aspect of him?"

Impressive, that the Smiling Git actually thinks that highly of OL. Seeing in him a worthy opponent, perhaps?

"Ah suppose you could say that we're all aspects of him. And we get along well enough. Never been one for changing things that aren't broken, though ah am not averse to doing some breaking."

He hesitates for a moment, regarding me curiously.

No doubt wondering if he can get away with breaking you.

"Perhaps the issue is one the difference in culture on the other side of the Atlantic. Allow me to illuminate the matter."

He takes his hat off his head and taps the stovepipe. It immediately inverts, the horizontal bars being replaced by vertical stripes and the ring of stars moving the to rim. He looks at it for a moment, smiling, then puts it back up upon his head.

Ah... Darko did indeed call it! Because, folks, that motif...

"That clear things up for-."

"Johnny Reb. How have you outlived your country?"

...Is representative of the Confederate States of America, rather than the United States.

"A people, a political community, are not defined by lines on a map, boy. Elsewise, every nigger born in the country would be the equal of every white man. It's culture. And while I will admit that I have taken a licking, I'm going to hang on until the final bell."

He glances behind me as The Brass fires its remaining cannons, a colossal pillar of dust and rubble erupting from the ground!

And of course he's as racist as he was a hundred and fifty years earlier.

Pity any discussion of that would probably run headlong into Rule 8, screaming madly all the way...

"People are impressionable creatures. Tell a lie often enough and they forget the truth. Even when the truth is written down plain as day." He reaches up to tap his hat with his right forefinger. "There are still folks today who say this was about freedom from the Federal Government, as if slavery wasn't guaranteed under the constitution. That's where The Brass's chains come from, in case you were-"

CLANG!

On the upside, he does seem to love the sound of his own voice, so he's bound to let something important slip while he monologues.

"-wondering."

Chains!

Oh, right. Because those aren't attached to the battleship guns.

"Ah seem to recall hearing that you aren't entirely of pure stock yourself."

Warning!

~~A reference to OL's rather eclectic family lineage, from a number of European nations, huh?~~ Ah, right. Gypsy blood in the family tree, as OL told his Earth-10 acquaintances. To someone as... Old-fashioned as Johnny here is, that even 1/16th means a hell of a lot.

Yes, yes, I know.

I'm wrapped in chains from top to bottom. I can still see out through the gaps, but I focused to much on Johnny and lost sight of-! Can't just slide out as there isn't physically enough space, except-. Ring, can my armour stand the pressure these chains are applying?

A good Lantern doesn't need to move to win a fight, after all. And OL is certainly well past good.

Armour can withstand highest demonstrated chain pressure.

Which would make sense as the chains slaves wear aren't supposed to actually kill them, they're supposed to bind and suppress them. Drop construct armour and make my environmental shield skin tight.

Leaving just the energy drain and whatever Johnny-boy wants to do to you as the only real threats.

Compliance.

Clank!

Brought down to earth, eh? No doubt Johnny thinks you're on your last legs.

"I see you know your place."

It's uncomfortable but survivable. And the drain has… Stopped?

Of course, he's going to be in for a shock once you get rolling.

No, but it is reduced.

Extrude a rope under my right foot. Is the additional drain measurable?

Heh. Been a while since we saw him employ the old 'filaments through the presumably solid terrain' trick.

Yes. One hundred eighteen-. One hundred sixteen-.

Got it, drill down.

Ouch. Not a pleasant speed.

Compliance.

Try and find a corridor. If you can't, get send it towards the Memorial through the ground. Show me what it's seeing.

Because Johnny wouldn't have been using it for a throne, nor have the Brass plugged into it, if there weren't something of significance there.

Compliance.

Not a lot, and then… We're through. Tunnel, some lighting, lots of worms moving with a purpose, some carrying things while others are just sort of oozing over the equipment. Equipment leading toooo…

Goddamit, now I'm picturing them more like the videogame Worms characters. Except...

Eviiiil.

Oh no.

Leading to Uncle Sam, strapped to a gurney, chest bare and with the left side… Cut open. Tubes of… Something, are being fed into it and flow from it. Not sure what's happening there but I doubt that it was done with friendly intentions.

...Well, guess that answers the question of where he's been. Presumably Johnny and the Yellow-faced Asshole nobbled him during a moment of weakness in the Seventies...

So, objectives: free Uncle Sam and have bit beat the stuffing out of Johnny Reb. Can't do much else about Boss Smiley in this regard. Then… Get out, with Uncle Sam's help.

Ring, plug into the tubes going in and find out what they are.

Because whatever they're pumping into him, it can't be anything good.

Compliance.

The chains holding me part slightly, freeing part of my helmet. Johnny Reb walks closer, some sort-. That's a branding iron, and the brand is red hot.

I hope that armour is rated for extreme temperatures. Then again, this might well be magical conceptual bullshit that can bypass any mundane protection.

"Been a good long while since ah've gotten the opportunity to use one of these on a living man."

Glowing red iron is… Probably not going to go through my armour, but it's magical and I should assume things. The worms don't really have eyes, and-. Plug in there-.

Thank goodness for that. Handy for making sure they don't see anything they shouldn't, but not great for having them be on watch.

Blood and powered kaahuite. Where did he get that-? They're pumping blood mixed with solid pieces of evil into him. Because that makes it count as his blood? Blood type… A Positive, naturally. Install filter and disintegrator.

Compliance.

A for America, of course! And no doubt boiling hot with the fires of freedom. Kaahuite, by way of a quick Google, appears to be an elemental metal inimical to Angelic energies. Presumably to poison him and keep him weakened enough to hold him here...

"I've been branded before."

"Then you're used goods, boy. Can't get full price for yah!"

Part of his soul tattoos, right? Though he was kind of magically drunk for a lot of the process...

"Slavery violates the Thirteenth Amendment."

"But you must remember that ah'm cut from a different cloth, and that Article One Section Nine of the Confederate Constitution describes things rather differently. Doubled down in Article Four in case somebody forgot."

Ah, something of a 'Take That!' at the politicking that drove them to secede, eh? Petty and small-minded. He's definitely showing what he's made of, then.

"Alright, but I don't understand why that makes you align with Boss Smiley. By the standards of the time there wasn't anything particularly corrupt about owning people."

Blood is flowing back into Uncle Sam's body and I think it's time to rush the final stages.

Yes, do blab all your secrets to the fellow you're about to dispose of. So glad this guy has likely never heard of the Evil Overlord's List, if he's aware of the Internet at all, outside of its use as a control medium...

"Corruption is a tool, boy. Boss Smiley opposes change that he doesn't control. Why would ah want to change a perfect civilisation? Why would ah want less control?"

"So… Just to check, you aren't part of the magical reflection of the United States of America? You're separate?"

...That kind of makes him expendable, doesn't it? On the upside, destroying him might well make America-16 a better place.

"You'd best believe it, boy. Now-."

"Then I have no reason to leave you alive."

Ooh, dropping a line like that when he thinks he has you beat? Here comes the turnabout.

Construct chains lash out below us, worms dragged to the side of the room as a construct chirurgeon quickly and carefully removes the outflow in Sam's heart. His eyes start focusing almost at once… Yes, low blood pressure, best leave the in tubes in for a moment. No easy way to get rid of kaahuite but I can work on that later. Blood pressure… Normalising, that'll have to do. Tubes out heart sealed chest closed.

"And how exactly-?" His eyes dip down. "Your feet are glowing, boy."

Bet he's been having all manner of dark, depressing visions while he's been down there. Like, say, the sort seen in the 'U.S.' Comic...

He lunges, brand burning into the armour of my helmet as I redirect a construct upwards from below, and smile at him.

"So are yours."

Construct hands punch up through the pavement and drag him down!

Brave show, but you have got to be running low on charge by now... Best hope Sam gets his striped keister topside right quick...

So, the location of the real Sam is discovered at last. No doubt being used as a battery to power the Brass and empower Johnny Reb (Oh look, another John.) But he's free now, if still ailing a little. So there's a good chance the next few minutes will see him bust out of the memorial, give Johnny Reb and the Brass a good kicking, then perhaps end the former like he did in 'U.S.', blowing him away like dust on a mantelpiece.

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
I don't remember what kaahuite is. Can you remind us Mr Zoat

From what I remember, it's a metal that can be found in Hell.

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'm sure he has many things he considers jokes. Basic human rights, freedom, racial equality... All the good things that the real Sam would be fighting for. Which is going to make his eventual defeat all the sweeter

Don't forget gender equally, religious tolerance, basic decency etc.

Chojin Patriarch said:
A reference to OL's rather eclectic family lineage, from a number of European nations, huh

Hmm, didn't catch that when he said it; I thought he was talking about his morality.

Chojin Patriarch said:
A for America, of course! And no doubt boiling hot with the fires of freedom. Kaahuite, by way of a quick Google, appears to be an elemental metal inimical to Angelic energies. Presumably to poison him and keep him weakened enough to hold him here...

And to probably corrupt him and by extension the rest of America.

I mentioned previously that since those things are on his left side then Johnny and Smiley may be using it to corrupt left-leaning politics since those are things the both of them would hate.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, do blab all your secrets to the fellow you're about to dispose of. So glad this guy has likely never heard of the Evil Overlord's List, if he's aware of the Internet at all, outside of its use as a control medium

I don't think long-term planning is his strongest point.

Rebu · Jun 6, 2022

Syphi said:
And that is what we call shooting yourself in the foot and not knowing when to stop answering questions. Enjoyable read.

"You sly dog! You caught me monologuing!"

moralrelativity · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
If you can't, get send it

remove "get"

Mr Zoat · Jun 6, 2022

m_d said:
American

No, it's like 'Americana ian'.

"Smiley", unless that's a dialect thing.
I think that probably was intended to be "I shouldn't assume things", but I could see it working as written, even if it's not the usual way it's done.

Thank you, corrected.

Khettien said:
'Johnny Reb' was slang for the soldiers of the American Civil War fighting for the south. (Excuse me, South.)

I'd call it The Confederate States of America. Americans from all over volunteered for either side.

Old Knife · Jun 6, 2022

Are we gonna see an Uncle Tom?

Mr Zoat · Jun 6, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
I don't remember what kaahuite is. Can you remind us Mr Zoat?

It gets described in a few segments. Basically, the place where the First went when God told him to 'get out of my sight' doesn't... Fit with the rest of the universe. A bit like what happened when the Exalted killed the Primordials and found out too late that the universe wasn't coded to cope with that. Kaahuite is stuff that... Accretes around the hole. Demons make their best anti-angel weapons out of it.

Darko said:
"not too long"
"to the rim"
"too much"
"have him beat"

Thank you, corrected.

Rafin said:
Them's fighting words.

Are you Scottish?

ForeverShogo said:
Also kind of want to say that technically slavery is still legal in the United States. You can be made a slave as punishment for a crime. But talking about how we use prison labor would probably violate the rules.

A little while ago I'd have said that it wasn't as long as you talked about it in the historical context, but it turns out that not breaking the rules is no defence.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I'm sure he has many things he considers jokes. Basic human rights, freedom, racial equality... All the good things that the real Sam would be fighting for. Which is going to make his eventual defeat all the sweeter.

Not at all. He believes in full racial equality for Anglo-Saxons, Franks and Danes.

A reference to OL's rather eclectic family lineage, from a number of European nations, huh?

A reference to what he's told the Nazis he's been working with; that one of his great grandfathers was a gypsy.

moralrelativity said:
remove "get"

Thank you, corrected.

Old Knife said:
Are we gonna see an Uncle Tom?

How brave do I look?

Windona · Jun 6, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"A people, a political community, are not defined by lines on a map, boy.

...Accurate, but kinda funny. Especially given the Confederate Flags I've seen waved in states like New Jersey and PA.

Mr Zoat said:
"People are impressionable creatures. Tell a lie often enough and they forget the truth. Even when the truth is written down plain as day." He reaches up to tap his hat with his right forefinger. "There are still folks today who say this was about freedom from the Federal Government, as if slavery wasn't guaranteed under the constitution. That's where The Brass's chains come from, in case you were-"

Very... Goebbels, was it?

Googling Johnny Reb actually just gave me the context of the icon. 'Reb' being short for 'Rebel', as not all rebels and rebellions are good things.

Admittedly half of what I was thinking was 'if Rocket had come along this battle would have gone very differently'. Namely Johnny Reb wouldn't have been able to finish a sentence before getting hit.

It's going to be a long recovery for Uncle Sam- assuming the side effects of the kaahuite can be fully mitigated.

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

Windona said:
Admittedly half of what I was thinking was 'if Rocket had come along this battle would have gone very differently'. Namely Johnny Reb wouldn't have been able to finish a sentence before getting hit

I hope Paul gives her a video of Reb's upcoming beating.

Windona · Jun 6, 2022

Darko said:
I hope Paul gives her a video of Reb's upcoming beating.

It would make an excellent birthday present.

Enochi · Jun 6, 2022

So... Johnny Reb is Zoat's creation? And since this is the worst of the American Psyche its the worst of the antebellum south... Or is this just Zoat having far too little understanding of American Civil War.

Windona · Jun 6, 2022

Enochi said:
So... Johnny Reb is Zoat's creation? And since this is the worst of the American Psyche its the worst of the antebellum south... Or is this just Zoat having far too little understanding of American Civil War.

Johnny Reb was a historical piece of propaganda for the Confederacy ala Uncle Sam. At least according to Wikipedia. So Zoat knew at least one thing about the US Civil War I doubt that most Americans know

jaelin910 · Jun 6, 2022

Enochi said:
So... Johnny Reb is Zoat's creation? And since this is the worst of the American Psyche its the worst of the antebellum south... Or is this just Zoat having far too little understanding of American Civil War.

Wikipedia said:
Johnny Reb is the national personification of the common soldier of the Confederacy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Reb

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

Enochi said:
So... Johnny Reb is Zoat's creation? And since this is the worst of the American Psyche its the worst of the antebellum south... Or is this just Zoat having far too little understanding of American Civil War.

No, Reb is from the comics.

During the Civil War, Sam was split into two different beings that fought each other.

jasonh23761 · Jun 6, 2022

Ah, good old Johnny Reb.

Kill him, Paul.

That ghost has stalked us for far too long and sadly will continue for quite awhile hence. It grows a bit weaker each day but there's still a lot of work to do.

Darko · Jun 6, 2022

This will be the second time that Paul would kill a national embodiment connected to horrible things like bigotry and oppression.

Valint · Jun 6, 2022

Enochi said:
So... Johnny Reb is Zoat's creation? And since this is the worst of the American Psyche its the worst of the antebellum south... Or is this just Zoat having far too little understanding of American Civil War.

Since it happened more than a twenty years ago, I think I'm allowed to say that all of the antebellum south is part of the worst of the American Psyche without running afoul of Rule 8.

And... Johnny Reb is just the generic name used for Confederate soldiers, similar to G.I. Joe, Tommy Atkins, or Johnny Turk in other conflicts. The Union equivalent was Billy Yank.

Here's the reference to the split in the comics:

Perhaps of interest is that Uncle Sam is in the select group of people whose memories aren't affected by reality alterations like Crisis on Infinite Earths.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Fascinated by storytelling

Reading four stories at a time.

Fascinated by storytelling

Well worn.

Perpetually confused

Experienced.

Connoisseur.

Colts fan. Anime fan. Breast and back fan.

No emotion, only "peace"

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Not too sore, are you?

Veteran Lurker

Connoisseur.

Connoisseur.

hey, little Anna, you're the one

Recovering pendant.

Dedicated ragequitter

Not too sore, are you?

Dedicated ragequitter

Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

Connoisseur.

Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

Having way to much fun with AI.

Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

habitual lurker

Connoisseur.

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

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