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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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- self insert young justice
NightmareWarden
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I reckon this chapter has two overt points and one subtle point/foreshadowing. Here in bold we have the first one. Anti-Monitor juju, Silver City thaumaturgical rūh, Atlantean will-working, Olympian and Othrysian mana, Order pneuma, Chaos paradoxes, Desire of the Endless' qi… He was purged of Hell's energies (though Sephtian wasn't confident) but at some point Paul might get the soul equivalent of kidney stones.
I think that we've already made comparisons between Renegade!Paul and Paragon!Paul's natures. But we can't point to a final stage of development for Paragon!Paul's development, aside from his esoteric abilities expanding like we saw in April Fools… and like we see with Controllers. Sure abilities like avarice teleportation are neat (in spite of the magical side effects Zatanna told him about). That doesn't mean all of his developments will be positive. Paul's empathy abilities have changed in the past… who is to say he'll be able to rely on them in the future?
The second blatant point is a question. How would Paul have handled this meeting with Desire prior to meeting alt!Alan? Would Paul have tried a Constantine plot to guide the actions of Desire? Would Paul give her the Melinoë treatment, covering sections of Desire's domain which are problematic (like the dangerous pride of supervillains or the mania of scorned scientists)? Would he bring up Sandy's bargain with Morpheus as a suggestion that Desire do something similar, sponsor a hero? Hard to say. But the last arc and Paul's recent resolution is definitely having some effect on how Paul is acting.
The final subtle piece of foreshadowing that I might be imagining… "pointless fear and hesitancy receded," they said. Desire has been watching Paul. Paul recently received a shock to his system which encourages him to be more cautious. Desire is making a threat to Paul, along the lines of "keep me entertained." Remember how terrified everyone in the dream city was of Morpheus and fallout from pacts with the Endless? Desire might be an antagonist for a future act of this story. Desire is proof that Paul is not invulnerable; he could suffer something like Grayven and Artemis did, without a time travel machine to undo it.
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Ngamer11
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Now I want Paul to tell someone that he might be capable of succeeding Desire of the current one were to die somehow.
I'm curious as to how Paul revealing this information will come back to bite him.
RichardWhereat
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And the beginning of his relationship with Melinoë!
Sojiko
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That was over suprisingly easily ... Also that should be "Well then!"
Mr Zoat
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Darko
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"when Endless die"
"dies"
That is the smartest decision.
Paul may just not remember that.
DrThoth
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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They get forgotten? I don't remember that happening in The Wake (unless me not remembering is part of it). Daniel mentions the first Despair to Lyta Hall, I believe, unless it's just that the second Despair reminded/told everyone what happened.
theaceoffire
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Friend, I ask that question multiple times every day.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
He's misremembering it. One phrase stuck in his mind. Desire finds a partially accurate oracle interesting.
Awkward
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No? Death is Black. Also, the emotional spectrum is not at all directly correlated to The Endless. Partially, sure, but not at all directly correlated.
Dragonhulk
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Why do I see Desire as a cat and Paul as a ball of string? I see Desire just dropping by and messing with Paul for funzies for now on.
Darko
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And now I'm imagining Desire doing this when cats still ruled.
Pez
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How big of an impact will absorbing Endless magic be? Especially Desire's? Probably just make best!snek like him even more.
Bramble Thorn
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You think having the meeting go longer would be safer?
Or trying to game things and 'tell her what she wants to hear', or act like she thinks you should act.
No. He treated the situation like a hot potato.
He minimized his interaction time.
Having the meeting go longer just risks him saying or doing something that sets them off in a way he doesn't want.
Uh, no. Black on the emotional spectrum is Necron. Death is nothing like necron. Closer to the opposite of Necron.
Awkward
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Nekron is a physical manifestation of the concept of death as a cosmic certainty serving as the Emotional Embodiment of Black; Death.
Bud-E
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Stsword
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That doesn't actually work with Blackest Night. And yes I know you got that from Captain Atom, I read that issue, but that just doesn't work with Blackest Night.
Nekron predates life as a concept in the DC universe. He's the cosmic "Get of my lawn!" man, that's the entire point of his motivation in Blackest Night.
Death by definition cannot predate life, since death is the cessation of life.
Logically, Nekron would represent not death but the absence of life, just as darkness is the absence of light. You know, since Nekron was the primordial darkness before "Let there be light."
Oblivion instead of death, really, but calling them "dark lanterns" instead of "black lanterns" would break the color name scheme.
Didn't stop them with Kilowog, but they didn't even give him a ring, but a scythe.
kerleth
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Darko
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Mason did a terrific job with the role of Desire.
They made the character both desirable and made you want to punch them in the face.
In short, a great portrayal of Desire.
Uncomplicated Good Works (part 7)
Mr Zoat
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6th December 2012
15:33 GMT
Hesk's gun ports open, but the rest of his flotilla isn't in any position to join in.
Ground-based anti-orbital guns generally aren't the best way of shooting down spacecraft, but the Spiders are making do with what they have. Some sort of… Space-warp assisted positron beam? They haven't got a lot of them into position to fire on the oncoming ships and I can see parts of their cities brown out with the strain of actually powering the things, but that one just wrecked a cruiser with a single shot.
Spider Guild ships are killing Hesk's support ships, but-
I feel a moment of disgust as I recognise their formation.
-that's at least in part because they're deliberately sacrificing themselves to make sure that Hesk gets into bombardment position. He could take far fewer casualties if he was putting in even the slightest effort at engaging the Guilder fleet. This isn't an attack that might be a one way trip. This is a deliberate one way trip.
Probably around two thousand pointless deaths already. Classic Desire.
Uh…
Shield!
Railgun rounds from Hesk's bombardment cannons slam into my construct shield and with my heart not entirely in it my shield actually-
Incoming transmission.
Answer.
-cracks as the cannons recharge their capacitors.
"Get out of the way, Lantern! This needs to happen!"
"What changed since the-"
The bombardment cannons fire again and my shield cracks further and I have to decide between attacking his ship and just letting his shots hit.
"-briefing? I have reason to believe that you are being externally-"
A positron beam hits my shield from the other side as the Spider Guild try shooting the ship that's about to flatten their favourite continent, smashing my shield to pieces!
THAT'S NOT HELPFUL!
Ah, point defence lasers, target and-.
Eight heavy projectiles blast past me, heading for the planet. Point defence lasers fire, heating up the near-side of the slugs, causing vaporised metal to expand and push them off target. Frantically, I try connecting-. There we go, the Spider's aerial point defence control. Send them my targetting data and hope they hit the.. two which are still going to hit the ground. Shield back up.
"-influenced. Please desist-"
Ring, message to Lantern Toren and Lantern Xor. Ask them to tow the crippled ships out of the system.
Compliance.
"-in attacking until-."
"Never! We may die, but we will live on in song and story as the people who slew the Spiders!"
A flicker of orange and Xalitan appears, wrapping a wounded cruiser in an orange bubble and dragging it away, the Guilder ships killing it getting a clue at once and moving on.
I'm not doing well at this whole 'classical hero' thing. And I can tell, because the first thing that comes to mind is mind controlling the crew.
But Desire doesn't mind control people. They just nudge them into doing things they wanted to do anyway, or guides them into how to achieve it. And I don't want to be a worse person than Desire and I'm not-.
What would Alan do?
My shield leaps upwards, enveloping the ship as I pull! The railgun rounds punch through my shield easily enough, but they're not pointing where the targetting computer thinks they are any longer and-
Ring, check flight path?
An orange dotted line appears in my field of vision, showing that the shots will miss the planet entirely.
Thank you.
-so with a little help from my point defences they're off target.
And pull the ship away, keeping their guns pointed away from the planet-. Or at least any guns that could do meaningful damage.
"Ring, contact Admiral Hesk's homeworld."
Compliance.
I wince slightly as Hesk's ship opens fire with its point defences to try and break my grip. Unlike my lasers, they use railshotguns, magnetically charged barrels firing clouds of iron filings.
"Illustres. How goes it?"
And they're having trouble but they are making progress. My construct strength-. It's just not clear cut enough for me to muster my peak strength. And now they're deploying their ship-to-ship guns and firing those, even knowing that they'll damage their own ship using them like this. They don't care. They just want to bombard the planet and everything else is disregarded.
"Admiral Hesk decided to launch an attack unsupported before talks were concluded. I'm trying to evacuate what's left of his flotilla."
"What? But-!"
"Please order him to des-"
Positron beams from the surface hit again, slicing through my construct as Hesk orders full burn from his thrusters to fight my control!
"-ist."
"Why would-?"
"Now please!"
"Yes, yes, of course."
"Thank you. Hang up. Ring, contact Strand Elders."
Compliance.
"Illustres, you said that we had until-."
"Admiral Hesk has lost his reason. I'm dragging his ships off, stop shooting this one!"
"Which on-?"
"His command ship! The big one with the bombardment cannons that I'm trying to keep pointing away from you!"
"We can shoot the rest?"
"If they're attacking you, fire away. However, it may be easier-. Damn it!"
My construct grip on Hesk's ship shatters again and his ship spins violently! I grab and pull again, but I can't stop the spin before their guns are on-target again! Right, that-.
They fire, and the ring tells me that the shots are all on target.
15:33 GMT
Hesk's gun ports open, but the rest of his flotilla isn't in any position to join in.
Ground-based anti-orbital guns generally aren't the best way of shooting down spacecraft, but the Spiders are making do with what they have. Some sort of… Space-warp assisted positron beam? They haven't got a lot of them into position to fire on the oncoming ships and I can see parts of their cities brown out with the strain of actually powering the things, but that one just wrecked a cruiser with a single shot.
Spider Guild ships are killing Hesk's support ships, but-
I feel a moment of disgust as I recognise their formation.
-that's at least in part because they're deliberately sacrificing themselves to make sure that Hesk gets into bombardment position. He could take far fewer casualties if he was putting in even the slightest effort at engaging the Guilder fleet. This isn't an attack that might be a one way trip. This is a deliberate one way trip.
Probably around two thousand pointless deaths already. Classic Desire.
Uh…
Shield!
Railgun rounds from Hesk's bombardment cannons slam into my construct shield and with my heart not entirely in it my shield actually-
Incoming transmission.
Answer.
-cracks as the cannons recharge their capacitors.
"Get out of the way, Lantern! This needs to happen!"
"What changed since the-"
The bombardment cannons fire again and my shield cracks further and I have to decide between attacking his ship and just letting his shots hit.
"-briefing? I have reason to believe that you are being externally-"
A positron beam hits my shield from the other side as the Spider Guild try shooting the ship that's about to flatten their favourite continent, smashing my shield to pieces!
THAT'S NOT HELPFUL!
Ah, point defence lasers, target and-.
Eight heavy projectiles blast past me, heading for the planet. Point defence lasers fire, heating up the near-side of the slugs, causing vaporised metal to expand and push them off target. Frantically, I try connecting-. There we go, the Spider's aerial point defence control. Send them my targetting data and hope they hit the.. two which are still going to hit the ground. Shield back up.
"-influenced. Please desist-"
Ring, message to Lantern Toren and Lantern Xor. Ask them to tow the crippled ships out of the system.
Compliance.
"-in attacking until-."
"Never! We may die, but we will live on in song and story as the people who slew the Spiders!"
A flicker of orange and Xalitan appears, wrapping a wounded cruiser in an orange bubble and dragging it away, the Guilder ships killing it getting a clue at once and moving on.
I'm not doing well at this whole 'classical hero' thing. And I can tell, because the first thing that comes to mind is mind controlling the crew.
But Desire doesn't mind control people. They just nudge them into doing things they wanted to do anyway, or guides them into how to achieve it. And I don't want to be a worse person than Desire and I'm not-.
What would Alan do?
My shield leaps upwards, enveloping the ship as I pull! The railgun rounds punch through my shield easily enough, but they're not pointing where the targetting computer thinks they are any longer and-
Ring, check flight path?
An orange dotted line appears in my field of vision, showing that the shots will miss the planet entirely.
Thank you.
-so with a little help from my point defences they're off target.
And pull the ship away, keeping their guns pointed away from the planet-. Or at least any guns that could do meaningful damage.
"Ring, contact Admiral Hesk's homeworld."
Compliance.
I wince slightly as Hesk's ship opens fire with its point defences to try and break my grip. Unlike my lasers, they use railshotguns, magnetically charged barrels firing clouds of iron filings.
"Illustres. How goes it?"
And they're having trouble but they are making progress. My construct strength-. It's just not clear cut enough for me to muster my peak strength. And now they're deploying their ship-to-ship guns and firing those, even knowing that they'll damage their own ship using them like this. They don't care. They just want to bombard the planet and everything else is disregarded.
"Admiral Hesk decided to launch an attack unsupported before talks were concluded. I'm trying to evacuate what's left of his flotilla."
"What? But-!"
"Please order him to des-"
Positron beams from the surface hit again, slicing through my construct as Hesk orders full burn from his thrusters to fight my control!
"-ist."
"Why would-?"
"Now please!"
"Yes, yes, of course."
"Thank you. Hang up. Ring, contact Strand Elders."
Compliance.
"Illustres, you said that we had until-."
"Admiral Hesk has lost his reason. I'm dragging his ships off, stop shooting this one!"
"Which on-?"
"His command ship! The big one with the bombardment cannons that I'm trying to keep pointing away from you!"
"We can shoot the rest?"
"If they're attacking you, fire away. However, it may be easier-. Damn it!"
My construct grip on Hesk's ship shatters again and his ship spins violently! I grab and pull again, but I can't stop the spin before their guns are on-target again! Right, that-.
They fire, and the ring tells me that the shots are all on target.
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Handlewithcare
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Mouths off to Desire, a few seconds later he is already unsure enough his constructs loose strength.
Hm. Is that why Desire showed up? Because John's lesson has shaken his conviction?
Hm. Is that why Desire showed up? Because John's lesson has shaken his conviction?
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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Huh. That is a good point.
Stsword
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Considering she had her brother cuckolded by the Sun of Oa, Paul should consider himself very lucky if that's all it takes to slake Desire's need to watch a real life telenovela.
Chojin Patriarch
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Desperation makes for clever adaptions. I can't imagine that's helping their biosphere any, but given OL's previous treatment of the planet, it's already dying. Though if Hesk's ship gets a shot off, that will deteriorate rapidly, I bet.
That bad, eh?
And They'd probably claim 'well, that's what they wanted, isn't it?'
Yeah, that's a lot of mass. I imagine the rounds are the size of small cars, and mass multiple tons...
No doubt the Admiral is getting annoyed at the interference in his glorious execution.
...Yup, he's gone completely bonkers.
No chance of tearing the guns off, they're probably spinal mounts. And crushing the muzzles wouldn't stop them firing, with that kind of force.
Wow, ingrates.
Do you not realise he's trying to save your lives?Honestly, if you hadn't said you'd let the Spiders live, would you even be trying to stop them? I know, trying to do good. But this is a war...
Boy, OL. Getting to be the meat in a shit sandwich today...
Since you're kinda busy playing Hercules to the Admiral's Nemean Lion...
Normally, I'd say you'd be remembered as war criminals, but given the history between their people and the spiders... He's probably right.
Assuming that would even work, given the intensity of their desires.
Sadly, I suspect their only hopes right now are a glorious death in victory and being remembered as heroes.
The equivalent of twisting the gun in a shooter's hand away from their target...
Yes, and now you've probably got some of Hesk's fleet looking angrily at you.
Since any point defence weapons would fizzle out against the atmosphere... And any secondary batteries facing that way won't have nearly as much power as the main guns. Now you have to get their hands off the triggers.
Hoping his boss can talk some sense into him? I doubt the crew's thinking clearly enough to listen.
Ooh, sound messy. I can't imagine that'd leave anything bigger than chunks if they hit.
Because on some level, you're okay with them succeeding. Getting the Spiders to change their ways sounds like a pain, even if you delegate it to the Spider Queen of Vega's underlings.
Again, I don't think they're in any shape to listen. From Hesk down to the lowest rating following his orders...
...May want to go spank those Spider gunners after this is sorted out. Give them a lesson about not shooting the person trying to save them in the ass.
No time to explain, after all. OL's just pulling a Superman, wrestling with a starship that outmasses him by a factor of a million or two.
Ah, OL. Multitasking as usual. Playing patty-cake with a warship while telling off the enemy leadership, huh?
"Would you kindly refrain from shooting me in the ass?!"
You know, the big one wrapped in glowing orange? Can't miss it... Which you haven't been!
Let them feel like they're accomplishing something, after all.
Welp, bye bye, chuggakan... Chuckasickie... Chughraghahh!
That's it.Well, this day could be going better, couldn't it? I wonder if the Ambiguously-gendered One is messing with his focus, or if he just feels that conflicted with himself over this situation.I mean, he is protecting the bad guys here, even if that's what he wanted. And it probably would be a lot easier to just let them die rather than people having to sit around holding a big stick until they change their ways. Though that last shot looks like it's going to settle the matter anyway...
Mr Zoat, some possible errors...
Hesk's gun ports open, but the rest of his flotilla isn't in any position to join in.
And I don't want to be a worse person than Desire and I'm not-.
Perhaps 'dotted' or 'plotting'?
...that I'm trying to keep pointing away from you!
Someguy Somewhere
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I'm getting a flash of 'Ender's Game' here. And I don't like it. It's on a short list of books I wish I could un-read.
Duke Long
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'unsupported attack'?
Really? I've heard it's pretty good, though I haven't read it.
Unless it was permanent mind control, I really don't think it'd be worse. (Also, I see that this typo has already been pointed out).