With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Ngamer11 · Jul 8, 2023

I wasn't expecting an encore from Nabu of all people. Hopefully he'll go down relatively easily so that the Renegade and Luna can continue their mission in peace.

EdwardGrave · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
She smiles. "We do. And We are please that you are able to admit a failing to Us. It is… [clor=violet]Gratifying[/color], to aid you and in some small part pay back the aid you have given Us."

missed the first o in the color bracket

Mr Zoat said:
"That is unlikely. I am here in the dream role of court magician. There is no story here that will allow you to best me in a contest of magics."

I step up to him, put the sword to his throat and resting my left hand on his shoulder.

"But I think perhaps that one who has killed you before may be excluded."

I think that this is a bit confusing, I didn't know who was saying what, I read it like 4 times and I think the first one is Fate and the second is Graven but I'm still not sure, maybe rewrite this section or clarify?

Zelred · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
This in turn creatures structures within the realm of Dream."

creates structures

Lord Ernest · Jul 8, 2023

Ah, now we see how and/or why Ahri'ahn created this pseudo-dream Atlantis. Nabu revived and decided to bide his time. He has fully transitioned to supervillain here, in my eyes. This is essentially what happened in WandaVision but purposefully and with no grief motivation.

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
14th February 2013
17:37 GMT -2

Our pathway through the Venturian streets curves upwards towards the third story of the palace and away from the main thoroughfare of which it is a part. Or rather was. Luna strides forwards with a degree of confidence that I find… Interesting, while I trail on behind.

The citizenry around us…

Hopefully the two of you have some manner of glamour to avoid being noticed. Especially you, Renegade, since I doubt an eight- or nine-foot-tall man wouldn't stand out in any human culture. On the other hand, Ahri'ahn's workings may well be doing the job for you.

Venturia isn't the sort of place to segregate on the grounds of form. The ruling family are pureblood because their ancestors could afford that version of the spells, but it's been a very long time since they made a distinction between purebloods, gill necks and those with overt fishlike qualities. In my visits to Venturia I saw a wide variety of peoples swimming around the palace district without anyone finding it odd.

That is no longer the case.

Which kind of makes me worry what happened to the 'unacceptable' folks. Have they been altered to fit, or simply banished to some 'rightful corner of the land' as slaves?

The palace is now dry, where before Queen Clea held parts of it dry as a demonstration of power. Logically, if she were continuing the same policy now then she would keep parts of it submerged. Instead, the submerged areas are restricted to the outskirts and occasional displays of aquatic plant life in public areas.

The buildings look a little different too. Like they were build in the pre-sinking style, and are actually capable of maintaining their structure while out of the water. Windows and doors made of wood and metal have made a reappearance, entry points away from the ground floor have vanished so that there's no sign they were ever there.

Because, after all, why have walls that would make it harder to swim into a place unless it needed security?

Looks a little like Themyscira, to be honest. Aside from the occasional displays of overt magic. And the existence of men.

"Honeybun, are you sure they can't see us?"

Honestly, given Themyscira's age, they might well have been contemporaneous cultures. Though not likely to have made contact before their respective retreats.

"Neigh, they can see us most readily." She raises her right hand in casual greeting to a palace servant as they clean the interior of a window we pass, and the servant nods deferentially back. "But they can only comprehend us in terms of the dream in which they are trapped. Were We in Equestria, We would rouse them to full consciousness that we might discuss what had happened to them, but here that would be contrary to our purpose."

So they're seeing a noblewoman of fair features and her handsome - if muscular - bodyguard?

"And Ahri'ahn isn't going to notice this?"

"We are doing what We can to prevent our presence here from disrupting the dream, though your presence is far more perceptible than Our own. There is little that We may do to prevent him noticing us should he turn his attention this way due to some unrelated matter, though We suspect that he will focus his gaze on Poseidonis during this time."

No doubt he's leaving the outer cities to their respective masters, until he's ready to turn his attention to them properly.

"Is there anything I can do to make it easier for you?"

"Neigh, there is not. Your nature as a New God means that you hold fast where others bend. Your passing leaves a wake. That is why we should avoid proximity to others."

In other words, don't poke them, the bubble of illusion might pop and expose you.

"And you can wake Clea up?"

Luna nods as we approach the target balcony. "Verily. That is the greater risk. If Ahri'ahn has realised that she is your ally, he may monitor her more closely. We will attempt to unpick his magecraft, but in such matters there are no guarantees."

And taking the mystical equivalent of a sledgehammer to it would definitely qualify. So this is going to have to be carefully done...

The railing bends aside as we step onto the balcony, and the pathway which brought us here… Sort of fades into the… Wall? The ground below us? Like it was made of things from its environment and sort of..? Stopped being twisted out of place.
Reality is R-.
Luna gasps, her head jerking around to glare at me. "Stop that at once! We could feel you trying to layer the rules of the waking world 'pon the sleeping one! Our foes will feel that at once!"

Ah, Renegade, you can't help but poke the sleeping giants, can you?

"Sorry, sorry, it's just… I find this profoundly unsettling, you know?"

She smiles. "We do. And We are please that you are able to admit a failing to Us. It is… Gratifying, to aid you and in some small part pay back the aid you have given Us."

The best Renegades are a little paragon, around their most trusted companions...

"It's nice to see you in your element like this."

"It is nice for Our element to be rel-e-vant…" He expression changes to one of mild guilt. "Ah."

And it's probably a lot safer to let her mind wander a little around here, where a greater power can correct any issues, eh?

"Ah?"

"We may have… Changed your clothing… Somewhat."

...Honestly, as long as he isn't wearing a loincloth and fur boots, Conan-style, or something equally silly, I don't think he'll mind.

I look down and… Now we match. I'm too broad for the look to really work; I look like a bodybuilder at a renaissance faire, but… I'll live with it. Particularly given how in-tune she would have to be with my God-Name to do something like that without me feeling it. If it weren't for Father, I'd propose at once because there just isn't a greater level of trust or intimacy.

"Nice. Now let's get in there and find Clea."

So, ten pounds of beefcake poured into a five-pound doublet? There's an image for you.

Luna leads the way once more, looking neither left nor right as she unerringly homes in on wherever Clea is. I don't know how it works exactly, but journeys in dreams-.

A golden barrier flare into being just as she steps out into an intersection, blocking my path.

Ah, looks like someone did notice the two of you. Time to put a boot up Ahri'ahn's arse already?

"Your power and skill recommend you, magician."

Voice is coming from the… Left. They can't see me from where they are. I might be able to force the barrier, but that would definitely draw attention to me.

Better than leaving her to solo them.

"I could scarcely feel your presence at all. I did not think that anyone in Atlantis studied Dream magic, but it seems that your family had its secrets."

Wait. Wait. I recognise that voice. I stabbed him in the face.

...Be more precise, Renegade. You've stabbed a lot of people in the face by now. Among other body parts.

"We are Princess Luna. To whom do we speak, who is clearly not submerged in this baleful delirium?"

"I am Nabu of Cilia, Magi of Order."

...Motherfucker! Did he speed-run regaining his magic or something?

Darn it! I knew he was going to reincarnate, I just thought he'd have the sense to keep his head down! The barrier… I don't know, it's glowing. The sword should have removed all of his accumulated power, but… Yes, okay, there wasn't anything stopping him building back up again. Klarion didn't, but he never really struck me as a strategic planner.

"And for what reason would one who prizes order above all merge the material world with the world of dreams?"

Still, he didn't introduce himself as a Lord of Order, just a Mage. Guess he hasn't quite picked up enough experience to reclaim the title yet.

A… Passageway which wasn't there before has suddenly always been there to my right. I nod and follow it.

"I used the flaws of each to bring order to the other. Humans are messy in the contact of their affairs, but they are creatures of pattern. This in turn creatures structures within the realm of Dream."

Handy. Luna's work, or is someone else lending a hand?

I can still hear them perfectly well, a grate in the upper part of the wall which used to exist for the purpose of allowing water pressure to equalise serving to allow me to eavesdrop.

"And your magic compels them to walk evermore within such patterns."

Hmm... I could see Dream being a little annoyed Nabu is forcing the Dreaming to realign in such a fashion, given it's chaotic nature. On the other hand, he tends to take a long view of mortal tomfoolery, unless it impacts him directly.

"Just so. They are still themselves, and can still make choices in their lives. But-."

"Those choices are bound by your power and art. And that of Ahri'ahn."

Which prevents them from making choices entirely freely, if some of those options are blocked simply because someone in power doesn't like them.

The passage turns off, and I quietly step out behind Nabu. I'm not sure if his original form was human-seeming or if he's had so many hosts in the intervening period that he now identified with that form more than any other, but there he is. Light Atlantean robes, shoulder length white hair and beard and that's about all I can tell from the back. There's a golden shield keeping Luna where she is but nothing at all between me and him.

"He is proud and arrogant, but he is powerful and highly skilled. Still, I am puzzled as to how he did not detect a dream magician as skilled as you. He should have done, and your wards are clearly only as good as they are due to your access to dreamstuff. Are you a child of Morpheus?"

Or he simply reincarnated into a human body because Earth. At least he seems to be wearing a shirt, which is better than some appearances.

"We are changed with ensuring that what you have done here doth not come to pass amongst Our own people." She raises her right hand, dark blue wisps effusing towards the golden barrier between them. "And We shall stop you here."

I draw the Sword of the Fallen.

Admittedly, I don't know if Ahri'ahn would care much about another world populated by intelligent 'animals' of all sorts. But Nabu is probably a bit more worrisome in that respect.

"That is unlikely. I am here in the dream role of court magician. There is no story here that will allow you to best me in a contest of magics."

I step up to him, put the sword to his throat and resting my left hand on his shoulder.

"But I think perhaps that one who has killed you before may be excluded."

And Nabu has a moment of 'Oh no, not again...'

If Nabu remembers his previous lifetime's ending, which I think those killed by the Sword do, he's probably going to be so damn annoyed that he's going to have to start from scratch again. Assuming he's dumb enough to earn himself a too-close shave there. Let's do hope he is. The question is, how much of this whole situation is Nabu's work, and how much is Ahri'ahn's. And how they met up, at that.

Vaermina · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"But I think perhaps that one who has killed you before may be excluded."

That only works if you're the Grand Vizer.

moralrelativity · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Like they were build in the pre-sinking style

build -> built

Mr Zoat said:
And We are please that you are able to admit a failing to Us.

please -> pleased

Mr Zoat said:
A golden barrier flare into being just as

flare -> flares

Mr Zoat said:
I draw the Sword of the Fallen.

"That is unlikely. I am here in the dream role of court magician. There is no story here that will allow you to best me in a contest of magics."

I step up to him, put the sword to his throat and resting my left hand on his shoulder.

"But I think perhaps that one who has killed you before may be excluded."

Just stab him already, damnit!!

Darko · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"I am Nabu of Cilia, Magi of Order

Well this explains how Ahri'ahn was able to do this.

As a Lord of Order, Nabu would know a lot of tricks about magic.

Lord Ernest said:
This is essentially what happened in WandaVision but purposefully and with no grief motivation.

Ehh, there may be some grief.

Remember that Nabu was basically enslaved in a very extreme manner and then killed.

If that doesn't mess you up then I don't know what will.

Darko · Jul 8, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Still, he didn't introduce himself as a Lord of Order, just a Mage. Guess he hasn't quite picked up enough experience to reclaim the title yet.

He may not want to.

True, as a Lord he'd probably be more powerful, but that may put him on greater risk if the Sword is used.

I don't know if it can affect relatively mortal magic users since so far we've only seen it used on beings practically made of magic, and people that are more or less godlike.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Hmm... I could see Dream being a little annoyed Nabu is forcing the Dreaming to realign in such a fashion, given it's chaotic nature. On the other hand, he tends to take a long view of mortal tomfoolery, unless it impacts him directly.

He may have honestly let this happen.

Remember that Nabu essentially protected the planet for millenia, so he may have also dealt with the Dreaming.

It's likely that Drewam may owe him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Or he simply reincarnated into a human body because Earth. At least he seems to be wearing a shirt, which is better than some appearances.

When Paul and friends found his Cillian body, or at least the body of a Cillian host, Paul thought that it looked humanoid.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And Nabu has a moment of 'Oh no, not again...'

Unless he expected this.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The question is, how much of this whole situation is Nabu's work, and how much is Ahri'ahn's. And how they met up, at that.

I'm thinking that Ahri'ahn started researching the Renegade and discover the Swird and what it can do, and managed to track down the reincarnated Nabu, helping him in exchange for his expertise.

Or Nabu found out about Abberance and was able to make contact.

I'm kinda reminded of that scene from the Venture Bros where Underbite asks Limb and Impossible if he can join them in the Revenge Society.

Duke Long · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I knew he was going to reincarnate, I just thought he'd have the sense to keep his head down!

I suppose my memory is bad, because I could've sworn that Renegade assimilated Nabu, rather than swording him. Oh, he sworded him after assimilation, right? I'm surprised that his soul was intact enough for reincarnation.

I'm a little surprised that Ahri'ahn is working with Nabu. I thought he was supposed to be very racist, so I wouldn't have expected him to work with a non-Atlantean human/alien. But then, looking at his wiki page, it seems like he's affiliated with the Lords of Order, though I don't think it's ever come up in this story before.

I wonder if the inhuman Atlanteans are just dead, or if they have been transmuted into purebloods.

WereDragon · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
I draw the Sword of the Fallen.

Why would you use the guaranteed-resurrection sword rather than any other weapon?

She smiles. "We do. And We are please that you are able to admit a failing to Us. It is… [clor=violet]Gratifying[/color], to aid you and in some small part pay back the aid you have given Us."

broken tag.

Darko · Jul 8, 2023

WereDragon said:
Why would you use the guaranteed-resurrection sword rather than any other weapon

Because it's the most powerful mystical weapon that he has and he's facing a very powerful magician.

Darko · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
This in turn creatures structures within the realm of Dream."

"creates structures"

Mr Zoat said:
"He is proud and arrogant, but he is powerful and highly skilled. Still, I am puzzled as to how he did not detect a dream magician as skilled as you. He should have done, and your wards are clearly only as good as they are due to your access to dreamstuff

Ohh, this is interesting.

Maybe Ahri'ahn is planning on letting the Renegade kill Nabu.

Lord Ernest · Jul 8, 2023

WereDragon said:
Why would you use the guaranteed-resurrection sword rather than any other weapon?

I believe, because it bypasses any and all defences and guarantees removal and suppression, even if temporarily, of the target. Doesn't matter if Nabu has a shield, armor, regeneration, failsafe or back up of any kind, magical or otherwise, that they don't know about; a hit from the Sword of the Fallen will kill and depower him.

Unfortunately he also will resurrect at some point, somewhere. But to remove him from the equation right now, guaranteed, Sword of the Fallen is a great option.

The problem is that Grayven sometimes forgets to drop that Idiot Ball he picked somewhere and doesn't remember to search for enemies he hits with that sword. Or maybe he did and couldn't find him?

DAT_NOOB · Jul 8, 2023

moralrelativity said:
Just stab him already, damnit!!

I think Ahri'ahn would definitely notice that.

rkyeun · Jul 8, 2023

"That is unlikely. I am here in the dream role of court magician. There is no story here that will allow you to best me in a contest of magics."
"I am Nightmare Moon. You are no court magician, it is your first day of school and you forgot your pants."

Mr Zoat · Jul 8, 2023

EdwardGrave said:
missed the first o in the color bracket
I think that this is a bit confusing, I didn't know who was saying what, I read it like 4 times and I think the first one is Fate and the second is Graven but I'm still not sure, maybe rewrite this section or clarify?

Zelred said:
creates structures

moralrelativity said:
build -> built
please -> pleased
flare -> flares

Thank you, corrected.

Signaller · Jul 8, 2023

Has Grayven forgotten one of the key lessons of the evil overlord list, to not brag until the job is done? I know that bragging is necessary when using Godspeech but he isn't here. A bad habit that Sinestro should have beaten out of him by now?

boo600 · Jul 8, 2023

Lord Ernest said:
I believe, because it bypasses any and all defences and guarantees removal and suppression, even if temporarily, of the target. Doesn't matter if Nabu has a shield, armor, regeneration, failsafe or back up of any kind, magical or otherwise, that they don't know about; a hit from the Sword of the Fallen will kill and depower him.

Unfortunately he also will resurrect at some point, somewhere. But to remove him from the equation right now, guaranteed, Sword of the Fallen is a great option.

The problem is that Grayven sometimes forgets to drop that Idiot Ball he picked somewhere and doesn't remember to search for enemies he hits with that sword. Or maybe he did and couldn't find him?

"Unfortunately?" The sword is a perfect non-lethal suppression option! Great for law enforcement-

Oh, right. Renegade. He kills people, and he doesn't know where Nabu will reincarnate.

Still, it allows him to bypass story lunacy like Plot Armor. Just kill him, and he'll come back later! There's no reason for the writers to try and stop you from swording him in the face!

Signaller said:
Has Grayven forgotten one of the key lessons of the evil overlord list, to not brag until the job is done? I know that bragging is necessary when using Godspeech but he isn't here. A bad habit that Sinestro should have beaten out of him by now?

I think he wants to interrogate him, but yeah, he's really leaning into that New God Chuuni.

Darko · Jul 8, 2023

Signaller said:
Has Grayven forgotten one of the key lessons of the evil overlord list, to not brag until the job is done? I know that bragging is necessary when using Godspeech but he isn't here. A bad habit that Sinestro should have beaten out of him by now

Sinestro seems like the type of guy that would get caught up bragging himself.

Venustoise · Jul 8, 2023

I just realized, does Grayven even have construct lanterns anymore? With the Sword of the Fallen, does he mercy kill them like he did Sportsmaster, Bane, and Nabu after he's gotten all useful info out of them? Cause I've never seen him use Savage, al Ghul, Brain, Klarion, Estroginia, or Von Daggle after assimilating them.

Actually, since Nabu was reincarnated, does that mean Bane and Sportsmaster are running around somewhere? Or did Nabu only come back because he was already a powerful being prior to being slain?

Ryumancer · Jul 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"It is nice for Our element to be rel-e-vant…" He expression changes to one of mild guilt. "Ah."

Her expression

Mr Zoat said:
"We are changed with ensuring that what you have done here doth not come to pass amongst Our own people."

charged with

Coda · Jul 8, 2023

Signaller said:
Has Grayven forgotten one of the key lessons of the evil overlord list, to not brag until the job is done? I know that bragging is necessary when using Godspeech but he isn't here. A bad habit that Sinestro should have beaten out of him by now?

Dream magic and Godspeech run on similar principles. Dreams are powered by narrative, so he has to make it clear to the dream why it's going to work his way and not the other way.

Ngamer11 · Jul 9, 2023

Venustoise said:
I just realized, does Grayven even have construct lanterns anymore? With the Sword of the Fallen, does he mercy kill them like he did Sportsmaster, Bane, and Nabu after he's gotten all useful info out of them? Cause I've never seen him use Savage, al Ghul, Brain, Klarion, Estroginia, or Von Daggle after assimilating them.

I think he keeps them around for their knowledge, possibly with the exception of Estrogina.

Caerwen · Jul 9, 2023

Darko said:
Well this explains how Ahri'ahn was able to do this.

As a Lord of Order, Nabu would know a lot of tricks about magic.

Ehh, there may be some grief.

Remember that Nabu was basically enslaved in a very extreme manner and then killed.

If that doesn't mess you up then I don't know what will.

But slavery is very orderly.

boo600 · Jul 9, 2023

Venustoise said:
I just realized, does Grayven even have construct lanterns anymore? With the Sword of the Fallen, does he mercy kill them like he did Sportsmaster, Bane, and Nabu after he's gotten all useful info out of them? Cause I've never seen him use Savage, al Ghul, Brain, Klarion, Estroginia, or Von Daggle after assimilating them.

Actually, since Nabu was reincarnated, does that mean Bane and Sportsmaster are running around somewhere? Or did Nabu only come back because he was already a powerful being prior to being slain?

He assimilated Klarion after freeing the others - and without any remorse. I doubt he let him go - and he may still have Savage and Ra's.

Mr Zoat · Jul 9, 2023

14th February 2013
17:43 GMT -2

He freezes, though I note that it's not because he's afraid. He's merely recognised the danger and is frantically trying to work out how to handle it. I assume. I can't see his face from here.

"To refresh your memory, after you tried to possess Giovanni Zatara, I turned you into a construct and left you in place as his-."

"Slave. Yes. I remember."

"Advisor and power source. But as you went increasingly peculiar, I was eventually persuaded to stab you-" I tap the flat surface of the Sword of the Fallen against his breastbone. "-with this, destroying your construct-self and causing you to pop back into fleshy existence as you are now. I imagine that was a blast from the past."

"Do you expect me to thank you?"

"Nabu, you thanking me would be the one thing you could do to convince me that I was in the wrong. How's being alive treating you?"

"What do you want?"

"You can start by dropping the barriers trapping Luna."

"She could remove them herself; she has the strength."

I narrow my eyes slightly. "Yeah, but that sort of thing is easier for third parties to detect."

"You have learned. Or did you take that knowledge from me?"

"I wouldn't want you in my head. Still have enough trouble remembering parts of Vandal Savage's life. No, I've learned, and-. Oh. Did you know that I'm from Apokolips? Or was that after you were reduced to being a construct?"

"I was informed by Ahri'ahn."

"So, shield coming down, or I start altering your attitude with my ring."

There's a momentary delay, then the barriers turn from solid planes to golden mist before vanishing entirely.

Luna walks forward. "Nabu of Cilia, this evil enchantment will not stand. You may aid us as we undo Ahri'ahn and all his works, or you may stand against us and be cast down."

"I am devoted to Order. There is no torture you can inflict that will sway me from my path."

I nod. "I can respect that. Another question, then. When I stabbed Klarion with this-" I tap him again. "-thing, he came back without any particular magical ability. Now, I suspect that it left him with his knowledge but put him back to square one as far as power acquisition was concerned."

"A reasonable deduction."

"But why couldn't he just build himself up from scratch? He did it once after all. Now… Maybe, it takes time. Or he just didn't have the patience any longer. You'd have patience, wouldn't you?"

"I am as patient as stone."

"Mm, except, you see, you're… Not. Decades of Klarion not wrecking the world while Nelson left you on the shelf, and the moment you get a body again you act like your ability to counteract him is suddenly super important. You chose to become a helmet rather than do as nature intended and die. You never really trained up a successor; Kent gaining knowledge of magic was a side effect of you possessing him periodically, not something you actually worked at. So either you're astonishingly arrogant and actually believe that you are irreplaceable… Or you're simply rather fond of existing. Being alive in the world. Or both."

"But would you make a deal with Ahri'ahn to make the world more orderly? Maybe. Except I can't see him making the world more orderly. He strikes me as the sort to create a people of god-wizards who do whatever they like. No. I think that Klarion didn't get his magic back because he couldn't. And I think you made a deal with Ahri'ahn because a dream-warped world is the only place where you could regain yours."

"Then kill me. Again."

"No reincarnation this time, Nabu. Just you and the default afterlife. Maybe they'll put you and Klarion next to each other."

Navy blue mist swirls around Luna's hands. "Grayven. We have spent time enough on this miscreant."

The mist flows over Nabu's arms and neck. I release my hold and step back as it solidifies into a set of magic suppression chains.

"Honeybun, you know that thing we did-" She glances at me in alarm. "-where we used my honesty to conjure a connection to the Element?"

"You wonder if we could repeat the process here and compel him to speak truthfully." She stares at Nabu as she thinks it over. "That was a moment of revelation on your part. Is there some truth of equal magnitude that you are concealing?"

"Um. Having thought about it, I'm actually a little grateful to Nabu to give me the impetus to start defying the Justice League?"

…

Nothing.

"Perhaps why hearing his confession matters so much to you."

Hm. How to put my thoughts into words?

Honesty. It's not just about friendship. At a basic level honesty is required for any sort of social interaction to function properly. A merchant has to be honest about the quality of their goods for potential buyers to make a decision. But it's often in their short term interest to lie, or shade the truth so much that they may as well be lying. In a democracy, the citizenry need accurate information about the alternatives they are choosing between for the system to work, but those involved know that lies are much more effective in the short term. They get themselves into office at the cost of the faith of the people in the system and the respect they once had for the office. Honesty is giving true faith to civilisation over the cost of temporary embarrassment or discomfort.
Builder Of Civilisation.
"If Nabu genuinely believed that he was essential, then he needs a dose of honest self-reflection. If he didn't, then he's a hypocrite who sustained himself at a great cost to others. And either way, I want him to confront that, because my life becomes a lot simpler if I can just kill him and I need a better reason not to than I have at the moment."

"And I must hear this lecture from one who will not even use his own name? Who lies with every sight and breath?"

"Oh, sure. Just kill Darkseid for me and I'll tell everyone everything. I'd much rather do that, actually, because this whole New God thing comes with instincts that I didn't have before and they're telling me that I'm doing the wrong thing. Besides, this me is Grayven with 'my' virtues shot into him after absorbing 'my' soul, so I'm the only Grayven around."
Honesty Exultant!
"Perhaps this will aid Us." Luna holds up… The Lasso of Truth? I frown at her, because I can't see Diana handing that off. It's a sacred trust. "Neigh, it is not the real thing, but that has existed long enough to gain a substance in the realm of dream. We wove the strands of your truth and called this into being."

"Hit him."

"Perhaps we should ask about Ahri'ahn instead?"

Oh. Right. "Okay, but can we at least ask about his magic? I'm probably going to stab Ahri'ahn with it before too long and I want to know if it'll stick. So how about it, Nabu? Are you prepared to face yourself?"

"Are you?"

"Have you not been paying attention? Yes. Luna." I lower my left arm, grabbing Nabu's left forearm and holding it out. "Loop that around both of us."

"That seems unwise, given our mission."

"No good, dear heart. Nabu here has challenged me to a god-off. If I step back I lose power. But when I win, he won't be able to refute anything any longer. Ahri'ahn will keep. Vindication won't."

She doesn't look convinced. But she drops the noose around us both anyway.

Vaermina · Jul 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh, sure. Just kill Darkseid for me and I'll tell everyone everything. I'd much rather do that, actually, because this whole New God thing comes with instincts that I didn't have before and they're telling me that doing the wrong thing. Besides, this me is Grayven with 'my' virtues shot into him after absorbing 'my' soul, so I'm the only Grayven around."

So we finally have a direct statement.

This isn't actually Paul.

Cool10007 · Jul 9, 2023

...I always forget how funny Graven is when put in the right situation. Bravo!

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 9, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
14th February 2013
17:43 GMT -2

He freezes, though I note that it's not because he's afraid. He's merely recognised the danger and is frantically trying to work out how to handle it. I assume. I can't see his face from here.

"To refresh your memory, after you tried to possess Giovanni Zatara, I turned you into a construct and left you in place as his-."

Oh, I'm sure he remembers quite well, Renegade. I doubt the process of assimilation was painless for him, after all. I assume his little recap is in aid of the Narrative of the moment, hmm?

"Slave. Yes. I remember."

"Advisor and power source. But as you went increasingly peculiar, I was eventually persuaded to stab you-" I tap the flat surface of the Sword of the Fallen against his breastbone. "-with this, destroying your construct-self and causing you to pop back into fleshy existence as you are now. I imagine that was a blast from the past."

Given the last time he was flesh and bone in his own body would likely have been around the same time Atlantis sank, I bet it was.

"Do you expect me to thank you?"

"Nabu, you thanking me would be the one thing you could do to convince me that I was in the wrong. How's being alive treating you?"

And it would take such a major realignment of Nabu's personality, I doubt he'd believe it.

"What do you want?"

"You can start by dropping the barriers trapping Luna."

Only good manners, after all.

"She could remove them herself; she has the strength."

I narrow my eyes slightly. "Yeah, but that sort of thing is easier for third parties to detect."

And would thus be a clear beacon to Ahri'ahn that 'something's happening'.

"You have learned. Or did you take that knowledge from me?"

"I wouldn't want you in my head. Still have enough trouble remembering parts of Vandal Savage's life. No, I've learned, and-. Oh. Did you know that I'm from Apokolips? Or was that after you were reduced to being a construct?"

I'm sure a Lord of Order would know of the ultimate evil planet. Whether they'd object to its malign orderliness, that's a question and a half.

"I was informed by Ahri'ahn."

"So, shield coming down, or I start altering your attitude with my ring."

Which will probably hurt a lot more than simply being stabbed, I suspect.

There's a momentary delay, then the barriers turn from solid planes to golden mist before vanishing entirely.

Luna walks forward. "Nabu of Cilia, this evil enchantment will not stand. You may aid us as we undo Ahri'ahn and all his works, or you may stand against us and be cast down."

Lady has a way with words, given she basically told him 'start shit, get hit'.

"I am devoted to Order. There is no torture you can inflict that will sway me from my path."

I nod. "I can respect that. Another question, then. When I stabbed Klarion with this-" I tap him again. "-thing, he came back without any particular magical ability. Now, I suspect that it left him with his knowledge but put him back to square one as far as power acquisition was concerned."

Basically draining the tank, if you will, in order to instantly remake them elsewhere.

"A reasonable deduction."

"But why couldn't he just build himself up from scratch? He did it once after all. Now… Maybe, it takes time. Or he just didn't have the patience any longer. You'd have patience, wouldn't you?"

"I am as patient as stone."

And yet you joined with the idiot in this lunatic plan, which has made lots of chaotic impacts on the world...

"Mm, except, you see, you're… Not. Decades of Klarion not wrecking the world while Nelson left you on the shelf, and the moment you get a body again you act like you're ability to counteract him is suddenly super important. You chose to become a helmet rather than do as nature intended and die. You never really trained up a successor; Kent gaining knowledge of magic was a side effect of you possessing him periodically, not something you actually worked at. So either you're astonishingly arrogant and actually believe that you are irreplaceable… Or you're simply rather fond of existing. Being alive in the world. Or both."

Yeah, I'd say both 'wanting to be needed' and 'afraid of ceasing to be' is a safe bet.

"But would you make a deal with Ahri'ahn to make the world more orderly? Maybe. Except I can't see him making the world more orderly. He strikes me as the sort to create a people of god-wizards who do whatever they like. No. I think that Klarion didn't get his magic back because he couldn't. And I think you made a deal with Ahri'ahn because a dream-warped world is the only place where you could regain yours."

"Then kill me. Again."

Oh, no. Terrible idea. It'd just leave you in the wind to pull something like this again.

"No reincarnation this time, Nabu. Just you and the default afterlife. Maybe they'll put you and Klarion next to each other."

Navy blue mist swirls around Luna's hands. "Grayven. We have spent time enough on this miscreant."

In other words, shank him and leave. Won't stop the spell, but might prevent Ahri'ahn from expanding just yet.

The mist flows over Nabu's arms and neck. I release my hold and step back as it solidifies into a set of magic suppression chains.

"Honeybun, you know that thing we did-" She glances at me in alarm. "-where we used my honesty to conjure a connection to the Element?"

Bit of a stretch to hope it would work here. But given that she just whistled up those chains from nothing...

"You wonder if we could repeat the process here and compel him to speak truthfully." She stares at Nabu as she thinks it over. "That was a moment of revelation on your part. Is there some truth of equal magnitude that you are concealing?"

"Um. Having thought about it, I'm actually a little grateful to Nabu to give me the impetus to start defying the Justice League?"

It's not like he can reveal any of the big truths he's hiding in unsafe company.

…

Nothing.

Gee, how surprising.

"Perhaps why hearing his confession matters so much to you."

Hm. How to put my thoughts into words?

Oh come on, you know you're loving the chance to soliloquise.

Honesty. It's not just about friendship. At a basic level honesty is required for any sort of social interaction to function properly. A merchant has to be honest about the quality of their goods for potential buyers to make a decision. But it's often in their sort term interest to lie, or shade the truth so much that they may as well be lying. In a democracy, the citizenry need accurate information about the alternatives they are choosing between for the system to work, but those involved know that lies are much more effective in the short term. They get themselves into office at the cost of the faith of the people in the system and the respect they once had for the office. Honesty is giving true faith to civilisation over the cost of temporary embarrassment or discomfort."

And sadly, lying is more convenient, as you pointed out. It's basically playing the game in easy mode.

Builder Of Civilisation.
"If Nabu genuinely believed that he was essential, then he needs a dose of honest self-reflection. If he didn't, then he's a hypocrite who sustained himself at a great cost to others. And either way, I want him to confront that, because my life becomes a lot simpler if I can just kill him and I need a better reason not to than I have at the moment."

And to be blunt, he's certainly not showing himself to be all that useful to anyone.

"And I must hear this lecture from one who will not even use his own name? Who lies with every sight and breath?"

"Oh, sure. Just kill Darkseid for me and I'll tell everyone everything. I'd much rather do that, actually, because this whole New God thing comes with instincts that I didn't have before and they're telling me that doing the wrong thing. Besides, this me is Grayven with 'my' virtues shot into him after absorbing 'my' soul, so I'm the only Grayven around."

Huh. Interesting that he's coming out and declaring it that openly. Still, possession is nine-tenths of the law, and all that.

Honesty Exultant!
"Perhaps this will aid Us." Luna holds up… The Lasso of Truth? I frown at her, because I can't see Diana handing that off. It's a sacred trust. "Neigh, it is not the real thing, but that has existed long enough to gain a substance in the realm of dream. We wove the strands of your truth and called this into being."

Oh, she is just a peach. Marvellous talent.

"Hit him."

"Perhaps we should ask about Ahri'ahn instead?"

Remember, Renegade, you are on a mission here. Intelligence gathering and reconnaissance...

Oh. Right. "Okay, but can we at least ask about his magic? I'm probably going to stab Ahri'ahn with it before too long and I want to know if it'll stick. So how about it, Nabu? Are you prepared to face yourself?"

"Are you?"

Yeah, okay, that would be a good idea. Last thing you want is another grumpy former arch-mage skulking around.

"Have you not been paying attention? Yes. Luna." I lower my left arm, grabbing Nabu's left forearm and holding it out. "Loop that around both of us."

"That seems unwise, given our mission."

Especially as you don't know how the truth-compelling magic will interact with the local dreamy reality.

"No good, dear heart. Nabu here has challenged me to a god-off. If I step back I lose power. But when I win, he won't be able to refute anything any longer. Ahri'ahn will keep. Vindication won't."

She doesn't look convinced. But she drops the noose around us both anyway.

Feels a bit of a bullshit moment, but I believe it.

So, this has some potential to backfire, doesn't it? What if Nabu accepts what he is, and still refuses to change? What if this causes the veneer of the Renegade's mind to crumble away from Grayven proper? What if this causes the local area to turn into an extended flashback sequence? The joy of all this happening within a magical illusionary dream thing...

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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