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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Pinklestia said:
Not really, Young Justice has the same level of tech or better is just not shared around because Mad Docs are idiots.

Plus, good Luthor is smart and he does know he can't both make the USA great again and win a war with an Alternate Earth.

And because is historic, I should mention the USA government made deals with the US Mafia during WWII to keep nazis away from the US ports. And there is also operation Paperclip.

So the USA government making desls woth criminals has happened before in reality if the motivation and or need was strong enough, so why not in fiction?
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Young Justice schizo tech is generally common place on JLAU Earth.

JLAU schizo tech is stuff like AMAZO... You know... The thing that defeated all the Green Lanterns.
 
Ganurath said:
Bets on how Paul's multiple solid lines of blue text about reforming villains in Earth -14 will lead to entirely too much disappointment?
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That's a sucker's bet. It was doomed to failure before it even began. All we can hope for is for Paul to pick up all the pieces before he heads home and never returns to the hellhole that is Earth -14.
 
Huh, I wonder if he will run into the angel Etrigan.

What Etrigan would look like as an angel appeared once in DC, in one of the Phantom Stranger's origins-
SecretOrigins2-010_p32.jpg


Yes, that's him with the orange skin and the 80s rock band hair.
 
Doppelgängered (part 11)
  • Threadmarks
    • 4th February
    20:17 GMT -5

    Mister Scott nods as I enter the observation room. "You got some good ideas there. Using someplace no one wants as a fallback point. And we were already shutting down mosta Owlman's boondoggles anyway."

    I nod back, then turn to his bodyguard. "Olympia, you're the blood knight of the group. How would you feel about heading to Africa or South America to kill people for money?"

    "It would be a welcome change of pace from hiding as we are now."

    Zatanna regards her with distaste. "I thought that your.. Syndicate was trying to avoid direct confrontation. Were you on Doctor Chaos' team?"

    "No. It was clear to me that Doctor Chaos was merely using us for his own ends, rather than trying to rule the world as the head of the Syndicate. And I will not be used by a shade."

    "Do you think your fellow blood knights would go for it? Or would they just take it as a sign of Management weakness?"

    She stares at me haughtily. "Why do you call me a 'blood knight'?"

    "The term refers to someone who fights for the joy of it. In context, I'm talking about the members of the Syndicate who can't do 'subtle' or 'white collar crime'. The ones who need to fight-"

    And I suddenly understand Owlman. At this point, Bruce Wayne could do the world far more good as CEO of Wayne Enterprises than as Batman, but he can't stop going out and crusade-caping. Owlman could have been richer and more powerful by doing almost anything other than building an apocalypse bomb, but… Once he knew how to build it, he had to build it. Had to use it. Not because it was a good idea, that wasn't the point…

    "-and will act out if they can't."

    "I am not a petulant girl who cannot control her battle-rage."

    "So are you giving up on forcing Wonder Woman to eat her own intestines? Because a purely rational person would settle for killing her efficiently."

    "She rendered me insensate with my own spear!"

    Mister Scott chuckles, quietly and menacingly. "Think you're making his point for him, doll."

    Olympia snarls quietly to herself, turning her face away from both of us.

    "What's the arrangement for moving Dame Carol out of here?"

    "Gas, magic bindings, then moving a variable endpoint door somewhere we won't want to go again and throwing her out. Olympia, why don't you go get her ready to move?"

    Olympia turns and marches from the observation room.

    "And Zatanna? We'll need you to move the door."

    Zatanna nods slowly. "Because this is Shadowcrest, isn't it? I haven't really…" She places her right hand on the wall, closing her eyes as she… What, connects to the house's magic? "Since it's just me and Dad, we haven't really experimented with everything it can do. But if my.. family has so many magicians here…"

    Mister Scott shrugs. "I'm sure they won't mind throwing in a spell book or two as a thank you present if you pull this off."

    Zatanna doesn't look particularly pleased at the idea.

    "What are we supposed to call you while we're in company?"

    "Depends on how you wanna play it, son. You can call me 'Al' if you want us to be friends. Capo Scott if you want to make a business case for why we should try making peace with President Wilson. Or Power Ring if you want to appeal to the masses as supervillains and give them a target to crush. I'll respond in kind." He waves his right hand nonchalantly. "It's all about getting them into the right head space." He looks thoughtful for a moment. "Hey, ah… I've been wondering… Whatever happened to your me?"

    "I got him a new lantern. He rejuvenated and joined the Justice League."

    "Hah! Ah, you shouldn't ah said that. Now I kinda wanna go fight him. See which of us aged least gracefully."

    "See, this is exactly what I don't get about supervillains like you. What's the point?"

    "Point? The point is to be, son. It's not complicated at all."

    I shake my head. "The nearest thing I've got to a rival on Earth Sixteen is a man named Nylor Truggs. He steals pieces of schizo tech and then develops them for wider use. I think he's planning on using what he's collected to fight against an oncoming alien invasion."

    "Sounds like a superhero to me."

    "He murders the people who own any technology they're not using to his satisfaction."

    "Sounds like a really focused superhero. We had this guy called Brother Love who used to mind control people who.. weren't getting along. Course, that was back in the sixties…"

    "He murders them as a point of principle; they don't use what they've got so they don't deserve to live."

    Mister Scott nods, smirking. "Now that sounds more like a supervillain."

    "But how does it make sense?! Why do you people.. do these things? There must be.. some.. reason I'm not seeing."

    "Well, sure. Sure there is, son. Of all the books I've read, all the plays and films I've watched, no one put it quite like George Orwell. 'Always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.'"

    "Nineteen eighty four. I never grokked it. The social control stuff… Sure, totalitarian governments use their control to reinforce their control. That makes sense. But real world dictators have a high quality of life. The Inner Party make their own lives objectively worse every time they do anything. And as far as I could tell, their own anti-technology policies would eventually remove their ability to maintain their control. I mean, I'm not Kantian, but that's… Just… Dumb."

    "You.. sweet, innocent boy." He shakes his head fondly. "I don't know if I can explain it to you. How did your Alan Scott get started? Let me guess, he was… Driving a train someplace, someone held him up and he.. tripped over his ring?"

    "His employer tried to blow up the train he was working on for the insurance money."

    He nods. "I used to work the railroads too. 'Till I realised how much money I could make holding 'em up instead. Built up a decent stake but the law was on my tail. Cornered me and my guys in an old railroad shed we were using for a bunkhouse. I grabbed an old train lantern to brain a guy with…" He shrugs. "And as I killed 'em one by one, I started to feel their fear, making me stronger."

    "Conditioning. The ring conditioned you. You made them afraid, it makes you feel good-."

    He shakes his head, visibly frustrated by my comment. "No, no, come on. Do me the courtesy of letting me have my own motivations. My ring lets me feel fear, it doesn't make me feel anything about it one way or the other."

    Or so I'm sure you'd like to think.

    "After I killed 'em all, I took all my money, went to Gotham and invested, bought a.. radio company. I was rich and powerful, and when you're rich and powerful most rules are things for the little people. And it wasn't enough. I kept a secret identity for years, not because I made money out of it, but because I wanted to do… Whatever I wanted. I wanted a sort of power you don't.. get from money or connections. I wanted people to look up at the sky and pray that my yellow light didn't fall on them. The money was just a way of reminding people how powerless they were. Hell, half the time I just burned the stuff. Easier than working out how to fence it. Your.. Alan, did he ever run with a posse?"

    I nod. "The Justice Society."

    "I founded the Crime Lodge. A club for people like me to meet up and brag about things. To hang around the only other people like us, who.. lived like we did. And maybe push each other a little further. People came and went, but a few of us… We made that place, made it untouchable. Made ourselves untouchable."

    "My Alan gave it up because of a senate investigation. Why did you quit?"

    "Same reason I told Ultraman his whole Syndicate thing was doomed from the get-go." He sighs. "We got too big."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    And I suddenly understand Owlman. At this point, Bruce Wayne could do the world far more good as CEO of Wayne Enterprises than as Batman, but he can't stop going out and crusade-caping. Owlman could have been richer and more powerful by doing almost anything other than building an apocalypse bomb, but… Once he knew how to build it, he had to build it. Had to use it. Not because it was a good idea, that wasn't the point…
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    You don't understand Owlman in the slightest...

    He built and planned to use the bomb because he was driven insane by a brief glimpse of infinity.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    Mister Scott nods as I enter the observation room. "You got some good ideas there. Using someplace no one wants as a fallback point. And we were already shutting down mosta Owlman's boondoggles anyway."
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    So, basically you lose nothing in this deal. The best kind.

    "No. It was clear to me that Doctor Chaos was merely using us for his own ends, rather than trying to rule the world as the head of the Syndicate. And I will not be used by a shade."
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    I can understand that.

    She stares at he haughtily. "Why do you call me a 'blood knight'?"
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    She stares at me haughtily. "Why do you call me a 'blood knight'?"

    And I suddenly understand Owlman. At this point, Bruce Wayne could do the world far more good as CEO of Wayne Enterprises than as Batman, but he can't stop going out and crusade-caping. Owlman could have been richer and more powerful by doing almost anything other than building an apocalypse bomb, but… Once he knew how to build it, he had to build it. Had to use it. Not because it was a good idea, that wasn't the point…
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    Like the Scorpion, stinging the Frog in the middle of the river.

    Mister Scott shrugs. "I'm sure they won't mind throwing in a spell book or two as a thank you present if you pull this off."
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    The question is what kind of magic will they contain. Presumably not the fun kind.

    He looks thoughtful for a moment. "Hey, ah… I've been wondering… Whatever happened to your me?"
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    Ah, Curiosity about what could have been.

    "Hah! Ah, you shouldn't ah said that. Now I kinda wanna go fight him. See which of us aged least gracefully."
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    Scorpion and Frog again...

    "Sounds like a really focused superhero. We had this guy called Brother Love who used to mind control people who.. weren't getting along. Course, that was back in the sixties…"
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    "Man, that was a weird time. Musta been all the drugs."

    "Well, sure. Sure there is, son. Of all the books I've read, all the plays and films I've watched, no one put it quite like George Orwell. 'Always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.'"
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    I suspect the message of the book in this universe was a little different...

    He shakes his head, visibly frustrated by my comment. "No, no, come on. Do me the courtesy of letting me have my own motivations. My ring lets me feel fear, it doesn't make me feel anything about it one way or the other."
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    Remember, this is still the man who could channel Will enough to use a broken Ring.

    Or so I'm sure you'd like to think.
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    Heh, wondering if the ring has hidden control cues from Volthoom or Krona?

    "After I killed 'em all, I took all my money, went to Gotham and invested, bought a.. radio company. I was rich and powerful, and when you're rich and powerful most rules are things for the little people. And it wasn't enough. I kept a secret identity for years, not because I made money out of it, but because I wanted to do… Whatever I wanted. I wanted a sort of power you don't.. get from money or connections. I wanted people to look up at the sky and pray that my yellow light didn't fall on them. The money was just a way of reminding people how powerless they were. Hell, half the time I just burned the stuff. Easier than working out how to fence it. Your.. Alan, did he ever run with a posse?"
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    And that is how you write a well-motivated villian. He's not in it for money, or mundane Power, not out to conquer the world. He just wants to have fun with what he can do. So what if that means people get hurt, they're no-one he cares about.

    Man, this is a great alternate Alan. Better than some (looking at you, nu52.)
     
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "But how does it make sense?! Why do you people.. do these things? There must be.. some.. reason I'm not seeing."

    "Well, sure. Sure there is, son. Of all the books I've read, all the plays and films I've watched, no one put it quite like George Orwell. 'Always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless.'"

    ...

    "After I killed 'em all, I took all my money, went to Gotham and invested, bought a.. radio company. I was rich and powerful, and when you're rich and powerful most rules are things for the little people. And it wasn't enough. I kept a secret identity for years, not because I made money out of it, but because I wanted to do… Whatever I wanted. I wanted a sort of power you don't.. get from money or connections. I wanted people to look up at the sky and pray that my yellow light didn't fall on them. The money was just a way of reminding people how powerless they were. Hell, half the time I just burned the stuff. Easier than working out how to fence it. Your.. Alan, did he ever run with a posse?"
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    See, this? This is why I am convinced that the #1 most urgent thing humanity needs is a firmware update.
     
    Ah, Alan is officially Best Grandfather in both universes. Can you imagine having this guy as grandpa? Obviously you would grow up to be a Supervillain, but I don't know how you could avoid fearing and respecting the heck out of that guy.
     
    Vaermina said:
    You don't understand Owlman in the slightest...

    He built and planned to use the bomb because he was driven insane by a brief glimpse of infinity.
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    Mm. Methinks you have become super invested. Remember, Orange Lantern Illustres is not always correct in his own summations. That's what makes him compelling :)
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    "After I killed 'em all, I took all my money, went to Gotham and invested, bought a.. radio company. I was rich and powerful, and when you're rich and powerful most rules are things for the little people. And it wasn't enough. I kept a secret identity for years, not because I made money out of it, but because I wanted to do… Whatever I wanted. I wanted a sort of power you don't.. get from money or connections. I wanted people to look up at the sky and pray that my yellow light didn't fall on them. The money was just a way of reminding people how powerless they were. Hell, half the time I just burned the stuff. Easier than working out how to fence it. Your.. Alan, did he ever run with a posse?"
    And that is how you write a well-motivated villian. He's not in it for money, or mundane Power, not out to conquer the world. He just wants to have fun with what he can do. So what if that means people get hurt, they're no-one he cares about.


    Man, this is a great alternate Alan. Better than some (looking at you, nu52.)
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    Sounds a lot like the joker, except done well. Probably the best way I've seen his motivation described is he wants to see what he can get away with. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses so long as he's having his fun and making others have one hell of a bad day.
     
    Mquz said:
    Sounds a lot like the joker, except done well. Probably the best way I've seen his motivation described is he wants to see what he can get away with. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses so long as he's having his fun and making others have one hell of a bad day.
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    And that boys and girls is how you do a affably evil character that at the end of the day is unquestionably a really evil bastard.
     
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    My understanding is that this argument is based on the idea that the world saving work that Batman has done in his capacity as a member of the Justice League is something that he could not have possibly predicting when he was preparing to become Batman and was not part of the intended role of Batman.

    Bruce Wayne committed to the goal of "doing Good" by punching criminals while dressed as a Bat far before it became evident that an organization like the Justice League would have an urgent need for his services.
     
    Queshire said:
    Or rather, Bat's treating the symptoms and not the disease. He could work like Paul; encouraging the spread of life saving schizo tech and magic, redeeming villains and so on. Instead he does Batman stuff.
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    Reminds me of a bit Batman White Knight Bruce learns that his fellow members of Gotham's 1% are using Batman to make money in very unethical ways and have made sure that Arkham is there to make it's inmates worse much of the time not better. In other words Bruce's fixation on dealing with his childhood trauma by beating up criminals gets in the way of him making the world a better place in a more productive manner.
     
    You could conceivably create an alternate universe where Bruce focused entirely on being the Wayne CEO, made the lives of people in Gotham better, caused a bunch of Gotham Rogues to become heroes, culminating in all of them working together to save the world on multiple occasions where Batman would otherwise have been required.
     
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