With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[DAT_NOOB]

He Ninja'd you to Batman?

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I'm gonna laugh so loud if Batman 12 kicks pauls teeth in

 

[Ganurath]

I suspect that Talon didn't let Batman through due to the fear that he might figure out one of Owlman's failsafes and use it against him.

 

[RichardWhereat]

This was easily one of the best chapters in a long time. We've known for a long while now that Paul's become the most powerful superhero in his universe, and here we get evidence of it when he takes down the Timmsverse Justice League in less than a minute.

Years of build up for a fantastic pay off, and it's not even the point of the episode.

 

[Massgamer]

J'onn-12 is the last of his species right? I wonder how he would react to news that in Earth-16 the Martains are still around and even his family.

 

[Vaermina]

J'onn-12 is the last of his species right? I wonder how he would react to news that in Earth-16 the Martains are still around and even his family.

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Nope, there are a couple others still alive in Earth 12.

 

[helios]

Gold Kryptonite - Doesn't effect JLAU Superman
Cold Gun - Doesn't effect JLAU Flash's speed.
Spatial Crumbling tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Green Lantern Constructs.
Constructs - Are disrupted with any contact with Thanagarian Nth Metal Weaponry
Vertigo Tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Thanagarians
Phase Disruption Tech and Psi Disruption Tech - JLAU Martian Manhunter trained himself to resist both.

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I'd like to request sources for... basically all of this.

I can't find any indication that gold K even exists in DCAU, let alone anything about its effects. Is this one of the tie in comics? Same for the spatial crumbling, though it might be called something else. Basically, cursory google searches didn't immediately turn up anything.

 

[Stsword]

J'onn-12 is the last of his species right? I wonder how he would react to news that in Earth-16 the Martains are still around and even his family.

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Not really his family, considering they wouldn't even qualify as the same species- different true forms, different power levels, and different history- There are no such thing as white martians on Earth-12, so he certainly couldn't have one as his niece, as an example.

He'd probably be happy to know that Mars isn't barren on Earth-16, though.

For that matter, Earth negative 14 has a non barren Mars, so there's that.

 

[BR549]

Or the Made Men will be so involved with running countries of their own that they won't have time for as much organized crime and the world will slowly get better without a massive war.

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It's worth noting that either the Triads or the Tongs (unfortunatley I cannot ever remember which it is) are no longer listed by the FBI as a criminal organisation because they have evolved due to realising that while crime does pay, it doesn't pay as well as legitimate business.

This is the ideal end state, based on what Paul can do, for the Syndicate: having seen what "getting too big" does, and being able to move away from that without Wilson's boot ready to stamp on them and anybody related to them onto the seventh generation at any second, they can, basically, evolve into legitimacy.

After all, it is often observed that the only difference between "protection money" and "taxes" is that one is legal and the other isn't...

I'd like to request sources for... basically all of this.

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Vaerminaworld is too bizzare for Bizzaro.

 

[iamnuff]

My only gripes with the fight-scene are that Acceleratedtext is hard to read, and isn't flash way faster than even paul's Accelerated-brain?
I remember that being a plot-point earlier.

If Paul put down his anti-flash countermeasures as his first action while flash was still stationary then it'd probably work, but the scene reads like Paul started by attacking Superman, then Diana, then Hawkwoman, then Flash.

Mix the order up a bit with the cold-fields going down first, then anti-superman measures (because he's the next fastest) then everyone else in sequence.

I mean, even flash would take multiple seconds to break through his construct armour, but if you're trying to take down a speedster, you really want to do it preemptively. It's the only way you'll ever catch them offguard.

 

[Buggy123]

Oh man, that was hilarious. He just shuts down (one of the weaker) Justice Leagues like that. Ahh, that was good.

Hmm, what now... oh, right, Vaermina time.

I am massively disappointed in you as a writer for nerfing the Animated Universe Justice League just to make your SI look good Mister Zoat.

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In fairness, they kinda seem to be one of the weaker Justice Leagues. I mean, they don't even have a magic user. And they're cut-and-paste comic book characters up against someone rational who isn't trying to fit the spandex-and-righteous-face-punching mold which gets the paper flowing out of stands.

That's like, pitting a Renaissance Fair cosplayer against a actual knight. They might look similar, but the essential differences means that one of those two are gonna get their asses kicked.

Except everything Paul did this chapter has been shown in the JLAU verse not to work on those particular members of the Justice League.

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*sigh*

Gold Kryptonite - Doesn't effect JLAU Superman

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Cold Gun - Doesn't effect JLAU Flash's speed.

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Spatial Crumbling tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Green Lantern Constructs.

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Constructs - Are disrupted with any contact with Thanagarian Nth Metal Weaponry

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Vertigo Tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Thanagarians

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Phase Disruption Tech and Psi Disruption Tech - JLAU Martian Manhunter trained himself to resist both.

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You forgot how he heavily nerfed the powers and abilities of the Animated Universe Justice League from their actual on screen showings just so Paul would be able to beat them.

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Eh, seems reasonable in-universe. This JL lost to a group of prepared Thanagarians as Zoat has pointed out, and I'd bet on OL against such a group of prepared Thanagarians.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Oh man, that was hilarious. He just shuts down (one of the weaker) Justice Leagues like that. Ahh, that was good.

Hmm, what now... oh, right, Vaermina time.


In fairness, they kinda seem to be one of the weaker Justice Leagues. I mean, they don't even have a magic user. And they're cut-and-paste comic book characters up against someone rational who isn't trying to fit the spandex-and-righteous-face-punching mold which gets the paper flowing out of stands.

That's like, pitting a Renaissance Fair cosplayer against a actual knight. They might look similar, but the essential differences means that one of those two are gonna get their asses kicked.



*sigh*

Eh, seems reasonable in-universe. This JL lost to a group of prepared Thanagarians as Zoat has pointed out, and I'd bet on OL against such a group of prepared Thanagarians.

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Didn't Grayven almost solo a thanagarian carrier?

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Well.... Since there is some argument over the status of this fight, I'm gonna try to break it down blow by blow.

Spoiler: Long winded Fight Breakdown, Please Ignore.

Starts off with the reaction to spotting an inbound Justice League.

Paul's already sorta picked a side in this fight with the Syndicate, but at this point? This moment has little to do with where he is or what he was in the middle of at the time.

This is a knee jerk panic reaction, tempered by more then a year of training and combat. As Black Canary stated waaay back when, you should always be acting, never reacting. The moment he spotted the threat, he went on the offensive.

Now, it's long been established that OL uses his ring based powers to speed up his brain to something Flash like. This is what gives him the ability to fight and multitask at speed. Nothing new here for this setting (Although it, and his subspace arsenal, are 2 abilities that are notably different from other known Lanterns). The fact that, unlike when he took on his own (mind controlled) League at new years, his internal through process is a long run on sentence. Back during the watch tower fight, he was ready and planned, and when each target appeared, he went over mentally what to do in a controlled manner, identifying each target as they appeared. Here though, is panic, but as shown in THAT fight, he already knows what he's going to do. He's trained it to the point of reflex.

Superman happening to be immediately effected by alternate universe Gold Kryptonite....hmm...when did Paragon get Gold? During the watch tower fight he had to use Green, while Gravyen used Gold during is version. Pargon did investigate Blue Kryptonite when dealing with Ultraboy, and looked into Black briefly when he discovered Kara. Anywho...instant no powers even on the combat clock speed we're working at seems to match up with the Gravyen side of the watch tower fight. JLU Superman is known for tanking hits for team members, and since it was an unknown to him, makes sense he'd not dodge a shot at him.

Diana wailing on a Kinetic Barrier again matches the Canon Watch Tower Fight. And that Diana's been active since ww2, where as JLU one has only been active in modern times. Less combat experience with the weird side. No argument here against that. She might have gone for the lasso if given more time.

Cold Guns, Shock Crowns and PsiShock Grenades, again, are an established aspect of OL's construct arsenal since early days. Fighting Speedsters was something he drilled for. Blocked by GL with little effort on his part. Green Wall blocks OL's general use of Filaments. Answered with Crumbler Rounds and Vertigo Inducers. Matches his training with his local greens. Stewart might have had a chance if he'd gone for an AOE attack to break those, but again, he's operating blind, and this version hasn't shown much beyond direct physical constructs....Thinking about it, Stewart might have been much like OL in the Twister Fight and gone for a sonic attack had he been more on the ball.

the Pause for thinking about Talon....no actual mention of him thrown anything at OL during combat...considering the bomb he whipped up at LexCorp, and the gear Owlman did carry (an exosuit that can match WW in strength? Does that come in a Youth Size?) You'd think he'd have something exotic....He IS the only unknown for OL here. Something a little fishy here...

Manhunter's Mental attack might have had legs, but again, OL's been hit with that, trained against it, and carries gear expressly for that. No selling an opening attempt I'll give him that. A Determined probe might take a bit more.

Hawkgirl? As proven in their dual when he fought his Hawkwoman, the only threat is the mace, not the person swinging it, and he's already used Thangarian knockout gas. He's Looted Nth metal weapons in combat before and used them, such as his fight with the First on Okkara. Again nothing new from OL here.

Using the mace on Manhunter....he's dephased stuff by zapping nth metal with electricity before...bit quick to jump on that one again, but it's a known tactic.

Fabbing or taking restraints out of subspace materials, been there, done that. Honestly he might have had a few of those collars from his last visit to Prison, and programming to match known JL members, if he was expecting this fight. The Anti-vibration Gel holding Flash is a new entry in the armory though. Makes sense he'd looked it up at some point, considering, but that one does stand out. As for taking fingers (or hands) off when left exposed...yeah, he's done that before.


In the end, OL hasn't done anything during this fight that he hasn't pulled off in previous fights individually, or over an extended fight. The fact that he did so in a panic and followed his training thus far makes sense.

This was the fight OL trained for, even before coming to Earth 16. All they saw was some Orange Guy, and then they got blitzed by an enlightend, well informed and trained lantern with 3 fully charged rings who knew EXACTLY what to do. The fact that they didn't get a lick in is somewhat telling, but remember that they are the JL, and going full power on an unknown is a 'world of cardboard' moment with no provocation.

I mean, if Talon had informed them about OL and they planned an ambush with the same rules of engagement as Paul? This fight ends with Orange Lantern's hands Heat Visioned off during his banjo routine, followed by a punch to the face at a healthy % of C.

But....The Real Problem remains.

Where is Earth 12 Batman?

 

[Handlewithcare]

Why are people saying Paul is OP?

He isn't beating anyone with raw strength , but rather with specialised tools he took from others over the span of what? 18 months?

He was prepared for this, that is all.

 

[Vaermina]

Because zoat did presumably remembered it from an episode because of his perfect memory

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JLAU Earth was never listed as Earth 12 in the Animated series or Movies.

The label only appears on a single rather obscure comic page so I rather suspect that was Zoat letting metaknowledge that he looked up after he began writing the story leak in.

My only gripes with the fight-scene are that Acceleratedtext is hard to read, and isn't flash way faster than even paul's Accelerated-brain?

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The Justice League Animated version of The Flash is shown, on screen, circling the Earth in about a second.

Remember that bit where I said Zoat nerfed this version of the Justice League to make Paul look good... Yea...

 

[Ngamer11]

The Justice League Animated version of The Flash is shown, on screen, circling the Earth in about a second.

Remember that bit where I said Zoat nerfed this version of the Justice League to make Paul look good... Yea...

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That was a desperation move that almost resulted in his self-destruction. His normal levels of speed are far less impressive.

 

[Rebu]

Can we go back to Grayven soon. The more focus there is on Paul the more I hate him. And given that he is the author that doesn't say good things about him imo.

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And so is Grayven, just with one...bad...day. Your opinion is illogical.

Edit: Or least have him face a Non-nerfed justice league from the comics. That would kick his teeth in real quick and might actually give him some character growth. Cause right now I can tell you/he has a swelled head that moons could orbit.

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He's using his version of Batman's Agamemnon Contingencies from Tower of Babel. Paul is pretty much defined by Prep Time, even more so than Memetic Batman.

Calm down.

 

[Vaermina]

That was a desperation move that almost resulted in his self-destruction. His normal levels of speed are far less impressive.

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No, going around the Earth multiple times in less then a second was the desperation move that almost resulted in his self-destruction.

The other thing was just a lead up he can do any time.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I think Mr Zoat might have said in an earlier post that in the continuity of this fic, it was indeed the Earth 12 JL that took down the Old Management, but I'm not sure, which is why I'm trying to tag him in this post.

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Yes, I posted confirmation of that earlier-.

Actually...

Do you remember Wonder Woman 12's invisible plane in the episode 'For the Man Who Has Everything'? It was supposed to come from their encounter with the Crime Syndicate. The film is based on the drafts for that unmade episode, and it's that episode that I'm basing this version of the Syndicate on.

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[Ngamer11]

Mr Zoat, I was actually wondering how Paul, in-universe, knows that Earth 12 is the same as the JL Animated Series and JLU Animated Series. Did he get the info from Baul when they exchanged intel?

 

[Vaermina]

Oh man, that was hilarious. He just shuts down (one of the weaker) Justice Leagues like that. Ahh, that was good.

Hmm, what now... oh, right, Vaermina time.


In fairness, they kinda seem to be one of the weaker Justice Leagues. I mean, they don't even have a magic user. And they're cut-and-paste comic book characters up against someone rational who isn't trying to fit the spandex-and-righteous-face-punching mold which gets the paper flowing out of stands.

That's like, pitting a Renaissance Fair cosplayer against a actual knight. They might look similar, but the essential differences means that one of those two are gonna get their asses kicked.



*sigh*

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You can start here.

https://www.dcuniverse.com/videos/batman-the-animated-series/65/season-1?page=1

From there go to Superman the Animated Series, then Justice League, then Justice League Unlimited, then Static Shock, then Zeta Project, then Batman Beyond, then finally the movies.

Eh, seems reasonable in-universe. This JL lost to a group of prepared Thanagarians as Zoat has pointed out, and I'd bet on OL against such a group of prepared Thanagarians.

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The prepared Thanagarians had been studying everything about those particular versions of the Justice League for years.

Simple question here, and if you can satisfactorily answer it without going "Zoat changed things" you will win internet points.

Where did Paul get the exact radiation Wavelength for Earth 12 Kryptonite? Because it's canon to the multiverse that every universe's Kryptonite has a different radiation wavelength and only effects Kryptonians from the universe it was created in.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

The Justice League Animated version of The Flash is shown, on screen, circling the Earth in about a second.

Remember that bit where I said Zoat nerfed this version of the Justice League to make Paul look good... Yea...

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The 'round the world punch' was a one off for facing off with Brainac/Luthor. Flash himself nearly poofed into the Speed Force after performing that particular feat. During a later episode when Luthor possesses Flash's body, it's noted that he is running faster and causing damage in his wake, with GL pointing out that normally Flash Avoids running that way on purpose.

So Flash-12's standard MO is going fast, but not 100% 'rip the earth an new one' speeds. He'll bump it up when he needs to...such as removing a bomb from a civilian area while it's in the process of exploding.

OL's trip to Russia, and the speedster brawl that occurred there, was likely the 'fastest' fight we've seen in WtR to date, with a handy count down clock to help show it.

I will give Flash-12 something though. The Possibility for Speed Force related shenanigans. Young Justice Canon specifically avoids the Speed Force, and Zoat as kept to that mostly, by trying to explain it via arcane means. This means OL could get hit by something completely unexpected, as he has NOT trained against some of the frankly, bewildering strangeness that comes with the Speed Force, and it's abilities to warp reality.

 

[Valint]

Edit: TL;DR: Paul doesn't have the time to dedicate to properly un-fucking this clusterfuck and doesn't intrinsically care enough about this world to make the time for it, so he's trying to design a solution that will, hopefully, give people enough time to rationally make choices that won't destroy a huge part of society.

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Sure. I would have been completely okay with him noping the fuck out of there and not getting involved at all.

... but at the point other people who are from this world have their own plans, which plans involve bringing in the entire Justice League, and your response is to shut them down, I think you're basically claiming ownership of the whole situation.

Once you cross the line to actively stopping someone who's stepping up because you disagree with their plans, you don't get to play the "Well, no one else is stepping up, so at least I'm doing something" card any more.

If Paul's declaring he's in charge, then he's responsible for finishing the job he appointed himself to; if Paul's not in control of the situation, then he didn't have any right to shut the Justice League down.

I mean, this is a multiverse in which, the overwhelming majority of the time, the answer to "a group of supervillains have doomsday weapons" is "the Justice League should repeatedly punch them in the face". If he's going to be arrogant enough to tell them he knows better than them, he's making himself responsible for actually fixing the situation, and not just doing a half-assed "good enough".

 

[Buggy123]

You can start here.

https://www.dcuniverse.com/videos/batman-the-animated-series/65/season-1?page=1

From there go to Superman the Animated Series, then Justice League, then Justice League Unlimited, then Static Shock, then Zeta Project, then Batman Beyond, then finally the movies.

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No. I don't normally go for the whole 'LOGICAL FALLACY!' calls or w/e, but Russels Bloody Teapot. You made the claims, you back them up. I'm not digging through literally a dozen comics I've never read, and have no interest in reading, for the sake of sniffing out a handful of details.

The prepared Thanagarians had been studying everything about those particular versions of the Justice League for years.

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And Paul has worked and trained with his JL for almost a year, and even actually fought against them at one point.

Simple question here, and if you can satisfactorily answer it without going "Zoat changed things" you will win internet points.

Where did Paul get the exact radiation Wavelength for Earth 12 Kryptonite? Because it's canon to the multiverse that every universe's Kryptonite has a different radiation wavelength and only effects Kryptonians from the universe it was created in.

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Ah, but you've made a mistake there: "every"
We have seen that one or two universes has different sort of Kryptonite radiation. This does not mean all universes do, or even that most do. The variation between universes... varies, with some apparently being slightly different and some being way out there. Some things change, some things don't.

 

[FreeGod]

Except everything Paul did this chapter has been shown in the JLAU verse not to work on those particular members of the Justice League.

Gold Kryptonite - Doesn't effect JLAU Superman
Cold Gun - Doesn't effect JLAU Flash's speed.
Spatial Crumbling tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Green Lantern Constructs.
Constructs - Are disrupted with any contact with Thanagarian Nth Metal Weaponry
Vertigo Tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Thanagarians
Phase Disruption Tech and Psi Disruption Tech - JLAU Martian Manhunter trained himself to resist both.

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????
I don't think that any of this is actually the case. Or at least has not been shown to be the case.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

Sure. I would have been completely okay with him noping the fuck out of there and not getting involved at all.

... but at the point other people who are from this world have their own plans, which plans involve bringing in the entire Justice League, and your response is to shut them down, I think you're basically claiming ownership of the whole situation.

Once you cross the line to actively stopping someone who's stepping up because you disagree with their plans, you don't get to play the "Well, no one else is stepping up, so at least I'm doing something" card any more.

If Paul's declaring he's in charge, then he's responsible for finishing the job he appointed himself to; if Paul's not in control of the situation, then he didn't have any right to shut the Justice League down.

I mean, this is a multiverse in which, the overwhelming majority of the time, the answer to "a group of supervillains have doomsday weapons" is "the Justice League should repeatedly punch them in the face". If he's going to be arrogant enough to tell them he knows better than them, he's making himself responsible for actually fixing the situation, and not just doing a half-assed "good enough".

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I'll say that 'taking ownership' of the situation is inherently part of making any attempt to fix it. Which is one of the fundamental problems Paul with the previous/current Justice League attempts to do so.

They leave without preparing the world for their absence. They don't establish a long-term solution. Instead, they fix the immediate symptoms. The situation Paul has been appointed to fix is the extermination of an entire sector of society and the possibility of a long and bloody civil war. He's doing his best to actually fix that problem, one which the JL would only exacerbate badly.

What Talon was calling in the JL to do wasn't to either kill a few thousand people outright or hand them over to the government for summary execution without trial or legal representation. The Young Offenders know that. The Made Men know that. Which is why they'll release any WMDs they have if another Justice League shows up just like the one that took out Old Managment, because they have no hope.

The fundamental difference in what you're proposing is a 'Comic Book Solution.' If you want to say that, because this world is a variant of DC, it should be treated with Comic Book logic, that's fine, but it's the author's decision whether to treat it as a comic book or a realistic world with people who happen to be able to fly and throw buses with the personalities of famous fictional heroes and villains from our world.

In either case, though, as long as the author maintains the decision to do one or the other and keeps it internally consistent, then you shouldn't have any room to complain this far into the story. Zoat has a long-established tradition of treating any situation as a real-world analogue instead of applying Comic Book Logic and punching someone in the face. I honestly don't understand where this complaint is coming from at this stage of the story.

 

[Queshire]

Ahahaha, at first I thought he was just planning what he was going to do in a panic and the mental order to *Stop* was Martian Manhunter noticing that. Perhaps have the JL try to talk with OL? Guess not though.

Still, overwhelming force right from the start would practically be required I guess. Wouldn't want to give them a chance to get their bearings.

 

[Vaermina]

And Paul has worked and trained with his JL for almost a year, and even actually fought against them at one point.

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Which doesn't matter because the Earth 12 League is canonically a lot more powerful then their Earth 16 counterparts.

Ah, but you've made a mistake there: "every"
We have seen that one or two universes has different sort of Kryptonite radiation. This does not mean all universes do, or even that most do. The variation between universes... varies, with some apparently being slightly different and some being way out there. Some things change, some things don't.

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No, I haven't, it's quite literally canon to the DC Multiverse that each Earth's kryptonite only effects Kryptonians from their own universe.

Heck it's even a fricken plot point in the "Crisis on Two Earths" movie.

So I will ask one last time.

Where did Paul get the exact radiation Wavelength for Earth 12 Kryptonite?

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

The idea of alternate universe kryptonite not effecting it's non native kryptonians does have comic book history going for it.

Spoiler: Ye Old Comic

In this early DC comic, superman crosses the multiverse, and ends up using the local kryptonite to kill several resident kryptonians, while he is immune to it as its not from his universes krypton.

Another issue came up during the battle with Superboy-Prime, where Kal-El and Kal-L, drag Prime to the Ro system. Prime is immune to the local radiation....so they tackle him through the star itself, which being a Red Sun, does have an effect of removing his powers, because THAT fact was common to all 3.

I'm sure it's come up a number of times during the continuity battles later on with Power Girl being a non native kryptonian after the crisis, but I'd rather not dive into that bit of insanity.

So...kryptonite radiation and vulnerability can differ from universe to universe. The mechanics and power levels of kryptonians change universe to universe.

The closest thing we have for a comparison would be Gravyen Vs Kara In-ze when he visited the Justice Lords universe. The Lords and JLU universes are....Close? In the grand scheme of things. The power Nullifier that Luthor cooks up works on the Lords, and may well have worked on the League, which is why he had to hand it over as part of his deal. However That thing worked, it was shared between those universes, so, as a guess I'd say Kryptonite would likely be identical.

Gravyen used a yellow ring to synthesize Green Kryptonite to take down Kara in the Lord's universe and later made Gold to deal with Justice Lord Superman possibly regaining his powers. Now while he did use a local to that universe Ring, IIRC he did that from Memory of His world's Kryptonite structures and Father Box. And it worked on both targets.

However he also noticed several physical differences in the Lord's universe, Kryptonian 'stealth' heat vision, and shapes of boom tubes stand out. So physical laws themselves seemed different, but still functional.

Gravyen-16's kryptonite working on the Lords earlier on makes Paul-16's kryptonite working on the League a fairly easy sell.

 

[Chaoswind]

Paul is an orange lantern, he was called by the Syndicate and the side of the heroes completely blew his offer and told him millions of civilians deaths as collateral damage was a low price to pay to get rid of the Syndicate.

The orange lantern is invested on the Syndicate side now, its that simple, if the heroes had come to him first, or if they hadn't blown him off after he took a significant risk releasing Carol and then gave away some of his UNIQUE equipment then Paul would be helping them instead, but since that didn't happen I am glad Paul blew them up and demonstrated he has a lot more weight than what the heroes believed he had.


In short, fuck the Heroes side, if they want Paul to be neutral then they fucking better start by returning HIS star sapphire, also going to love when Capo Alan realizes Paul is a monster lantern.


Anyways people remember the power chart.

Paragon Paul was bonded to the embodiment of universal avarice for weeks, his lantern weight class is just bellow Larfleeze if he is invested and he has A LOT more skill than the ancient orange nutjob.

Next is probably Anti Green Paul, as he has been getting infused with raw will 24/7 by his fucked ring, and has been getting overloaded with magic every time he is revived.

Next is probably Grayven as he is mainlining the new god of conquest, has plenty of new god equipment and dual wields yellow and orange rings.

Next is probably Raul as he has taken a few baths in the lakes of rage of Ysmaul.

In the low end we have Blue and Purple.

In short there is nothing strange about this curpstomp, if we want to read about Paul struggling with this fight when the conditions are this favorable then we would need to be following one of the weaker Pauls, not this one.

 

[Bigking321]

Ugh, this is probably just another enlightenment alien worldview thing that keeps bugging me, but would it really be so bad to attempt to talk things out before completely dismantling them.

Now he will just look like a villain that is only nice when he holds all the cards...


"So... why did you beat us up, take away our powers, and cut off body parts?"

"You might not have listened to me if I tried talking. But now that I have you at my mercy you'll have no choice but to listen and agree to my perfectly reasonable ideas and plans!"

"Why didn't you start with that then?"

Looks confused "... because you might have said no. Please try to keep up."

All sighing "Yep, supervillain."

... but at the point other people who are from this world have their own plans, which plans involve bringing in the entire Justice League, and your response is to shut them down, I think you're basically claiming ownership of the whole situation.

Once you cross the line to actively stopping someone who's stepping up because you disagree with their plans, you don't get to play the "Well, no one else is stepping up, so at least I'm doing something" card any more.

If Paul's declaring he's in charge, then he's responsible for finishing the job he appointed himself to; if Paul's not in control of the situation, then he didn't have any right to shut the Justice League down.

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This. This is what was bugging me. He is actively shutting down other people's choices and plans because they aren't what he wants.

If he wants to be a complete authoritarian where he is in control, that would be fine, interesting story direction.

But it feels like he is trying to have it both ways. He has to be in charge and everyone has to do things his way because everyone else would be wrong and his way is the right way.

I'm probably just depressed at the anti-climax but it keeps feeling like people only matter to ol if he decides they matter, otherwise he just runs right over them because they might inconvenience him.

I'm definitely not at "ol is mary-sue. Ruined forever!" levels, more like "oh. That was disappointing."