With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Steelplaza]

I do appreciate when characters give the SI some push-back instead of just accepting his arguments. It makes it feel like a more honest debate.

It's kind of hard for me to say who is right given this is a weird comic book universe with conceptual entities and spirits of stasis and all of that. I don't think there's such thing as "evolution" of societies in the real world, but in the DC universe who knows?

If we want to make historical arguments, it's interesting to consider the case of Japan. When they were forced out of their isolationism by Admiral Perry and realized how far behind they were technologically and how much danger they were in of being reduced to a colonized state (as so many other countries in that region of the world were) they embarked on a campaign of deliberate modernization. They imported technology and studied it so they could build it themselves, and they sent out engineers to study in other countries and bring the knowledge back home.

I don't think it's necessary for the people of DC earth to invent all the technology for themselves. It's fine to crib from alien civilizations. If you live in India and are trying to import new power technology, does it matter if it was invented by a human in France or a Thanagarian across the galaxy? But the SI is probably correct in that people need to be able to learn how to build the technology themselves, even if they can't do it day one.

 

[ForeverShogo]

It really does feel like just a series of dumbass arguments for not helping as much as he could or should.

These aren't lost technologies of some ancient precursors that no one in the universe understands. They're understood and mature technologies that can be learned and taught. Even if it starts as small as just the KordTech team keeping an eye on that Bleed-Torsion Generator. The necessary knowledge can propagate. You don't even have to skip to the end of the tech tree. You can feed people things at a steady rate so they get there faster while still being able to learn along the way.

But unless someone goes out of their way to piss him off he never puts in the work to follow through on things, and so he does shit like philosophically jerk himself off by mentioning the Eloi or insisting suffering builds character to try to disguise how half-assed his approach to helping people actually is.

Though speaking of getting pissed off, I'm a little surprised Boss Smiley hasn't given him the spite motivation to accelerate humanity's uplift.

 

[Questianor]

whilst the other means gradual societal shifts to accommodate the singular discovery alone at a given point in time.

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Seems like a moot point considering what just happened to Earth anyway.

Even in the most optimistic sense I can muster, given the hefty chance of a civilizational collapse under a "book of answers" scenario, OL is right to hold back.

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Seems like a moot point considering civilization mostly collapsed anyway, and where it exists is being held together by superbeings (many of whom are alien anyway, like Superman, Martian Manhunter, Icon, etc., or empowered by aliens like the GLs, or empowered by beings that might as well be alien like Captain Marvel).

And this is minor compared to the weird latent sense of entitlement that Myra exhibits once help was voluntarily given by OL, out of his own generosity. To respond to the help with what amounts to "why aren't you doing more".....

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If you can even call this entitlement, it's far from the worst sin here.



I think a human "prime directive"-ing his own species by witholding alien technology and knowledge he himself benefits from while assisting other aliens and humans using alien technology in doing those sorts of things anyway after his planet has just been wracked by an assault from a hostile alien god anyway is, frankly, a little silly. And humans have never practiced anything like this amongst their own species anyway. When charitable organizations travel to undeveloped countries or when empires conquer a more primitive people they don't say things like we won't build any infrastructure here or give you any medical treatment until you figure it yourselves. They hand out the penicillin and then they build a school so they can teach them how to make penicillin. And while some may have complaints about the exact form this takes it is generally a good thing that they do so. We can talk about the ways colonial empires and foreign NGOs have failed the people of sub-Saharan Africa but I promise their lives would be in very objective ways much worse (and shorter, and fewer) if nobody ever deigned to build them anything or teach them how to build anything- and you agree unless you're volunteering to go be an iron age millet farmer.


At the end of the day I can understand OL not wanting to build everything for Earth, I can't make sense of not wanting to teach them how to build anything, and I definitely can't make sense of building one thing for them but not teaching them about it and then refusing to build or teach them about anything else.


EDIT to not double post:

Though speaking of getting pissed off, I'm a little surprised Boss Smiley hasn't given him the spite motivation to accelerate humanity's uplift.

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Oh yeah, another point against the pseudo-prime directive, OL knows nonhuman alien entities have been actively guiding human civilization's development anyway (and also the development of their neighbors one planet over if the whole Guardians re-engineering the Martian race thing is true here too- I forget if it is)

 

[FuzzyZergling]

And that is entirely your fault for providing the device but none of the manuals or textbooks that go with it.

Civilisation progressed beyond sticks and rocks because people do not need to 'figure it out themselves'. One person figures something out, generally via either immense effort or phenomenal luck, and they then teach others. Then the next person gets a higher starting point and figures out something else.
As far as civilisation and 99.999% of the people in it are concerned there would be no difference at all between some random scientist 'discovering' bleed energy and OL handing over some alien textbook explaining what bleed energy is.

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This more-or-less mirrors my own feeling on the subject.

Humanity has always progressed mostly by making use of a physical phenomena first, and only understanding it later after the fact – the opposite is really very modern. If someone were to hop in a time machine with a radio, petri dish of penicillin, and some third thing to make the sentence flow well, I don't think human understanding of those things would go down once we 'caught up' to the present.

 

[Lord Ernest]

I have a question, how exactly is the Illustres supposed to teach people these advanced technologies, when he probably doesn't understand them? He has the database and can build devices, but I don't recall when he became a super genius capable of understanding Bleed mechanics or any number of advanced tech he essentially cribbed off of more advanced species.

If he does understand these technologies and can teach them, then I guess he probably should. But at the end of the day, he's an Orange Light user and he behaves and does things however he wants, not necessarily because they're optimal.

 

[Steelplaza]

I have a question, how exactly is the Illustres supposed to teach people these advanced technologies, when he probably doesn't understand them? He has the database and can build devices, but I don't recall when he became a super genius capable of understanding Bleed mechanics or any number of advanced tech he essentially cribbed off of more advanced species.

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Excellent question. You know how he's been importing and exporting mages to build magical infrastructure?

Do that with technology. Hire some aliens to come in and teach humans how to build stuff. Send some humans to study on alien worlds.

 

[ForeverShogo]

I guess the concept of hiring teachers is a foreign concept to you, then.

It's not like he hasn't engaged in that kind of thing before when helping alien civilizations out. Pretty sure the Tamaraneans are one of the notable ones where he pulled in foreign specialists to educate them as part of the uplift.

For some reason he's perfectly fine helping other worlds skip ahead in their development while largely withholding things from Earth.

 

[Questianor]

If we want to make historical arguments, it's interesting to consider the case of Japan. When they were forced out of their isolationism by Admiral Perry and realized how far behind they were technologically and how much danger they were in of being reduced to a colonized state (as so many other countries in that region of the world were) they embarked on a campaign of deliberate modernization. They imported technology and studied it so they could build it themselves, and they sent out engineers to study in other countries and bring the knowledge back home.

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One final thought from me on the matter. The Meiji Japan comparison seems particularly apt to me because if one thing is clear in this timeline it's that Earth and the human race is in extreme danger. In the past few years alone humanity has been absolutely wracked by things like invasions from the Sheeda and the Anti-Life incident, the planet is being watched with interest or spied on by all manner of alien civilizations from Oa to Mars to Thanagar to Apokolips to the Reach to the alien queen OL is preparing to take on a tour of Earth right now, nonhuman entities like Boss Smiley stick their hand in and try to guide human development according to their own ideas, and I could go on and on. And unlike in standard comic book worlds where most of this is theoretical or gets solved mostly painlessly in a day, Earth has actually taken a thorough thrashing and billions of humans have died. All in a few years! If I was human concerned for the fate of my own species I'd be stomping the fucking gas pedal, maximum uplift at full speed now, worry about the societal consequences later after you've made sure there will even be human societies in a decade's time. But that's just my two cents.

 

[Mr Zoat]

This issue isn't humans getting access to a better power plant. This issue is that humans already had better power plants, but they weren't being commercially developed until the SI made it clear that he would flip the table on existing business interests. Similarly, there really isn't anything preventing everyone on Earth studying magic. It would have been entirely possible to arrange things so that everyone on Earth was a Danner enhancile by now. It's not 'I don't think you deserve this', it's 'You could have this by now. Why are you choosing not to and then expecting me to do it for you?'

 

[Questianor]

Okay, sure, but if the table hasn't been flipped anyway by now with everything that's happened then maybe it's time to just give up on humanity. Or look for if there are any other supernatueal entities inhabiting human progress. Or OL should just carry out the threat of flipping the table himself because it's clear nothing will get done any other way. If Reed Richards Is Still Useless™ by now that's just authorial mandate and it's never fun to see characters bash their heads repeatedly against problems the author won't let be solved.

EDIT:
More specifically, it's not fun to read characters be constantly criticized for problems the author invented and won't let be solved. Like when fanfic writers have an SI keep shitting on Batman for the no killing rule, or when actual comic book writers have the X-Men shit on the Avengers for not showing up to help with all their problems (in reality nobody actually wants every X-Men comic to be a crossover).

 

[Coltsguy]

Not in his country, Colonial.

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They are where the food comes from.

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Yeah, but the z makes is sexy.

 

[monochromaticPrism]

It really does feel like just a series of dumbass arguments for not helping as much as he could or should.

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A major variable is a problem that long form fiction writers like comic book writers, and by extension Mr. Zoat, inevitably run into; the problem of setting alienation. Many of the kinds of stories you would want to tell in a superhero setting would be inherently undermined if civilization advanced too far from where we are now, particularly if any advancements solve fundamental issues. It's more subtle with something like unlimited energy, but what if we build viable basic labor robots? Humans have intelligence on an even distribution, with about 10-15% falling into the range where the only work they can comfortably perform is basic-to-advanced manual labor. What does society look like when there are no fast food or janitorial jobs?

The answer is that the writer has to select a solution for a problem we've never solved in the history of our entire species. This is great for one-shot works of speculative scifi or a "problem of the week" series like Star Trek / Stargate where whatever is going on is localized to a single far away planet, but if you stack too many theoretical solutions into the part of the setting where all the humans are it kinda breaks if you still want to simultaneously and convincingly tell the story of Peter Parker.

It's why this setting will probably be locked at "advances are being rolled out but remain rare" right up until the last 2-3 story arcs, with the exception of tech like bleed torsion power plants or teleportation gates (things which functionally change little for the human condition as long as the technology isn't easily reproducible and/or miniaturized).

 

[Old Knife]

It's like how despite there were advanced tech examples in ancient times, knowledge didn't really get shared or propagated.

It took the black death(thinning out the population), semi constant war(massive political push to spread war tech, popularize craftsmen and later gunpowder) and and Catholicism(destroying family enterprise+ universal spread of scripture+monastery knowledge hoarding) which lead into the rise of guilds(journeymen travel and tech propagation) , and then the rise of universities.

That Europe really had a tech/culture boom and soon colonized the world.

Perfect storm.
The rest of the world was stagnating in comparison.
Others had several of these but never all of them blendering up the fabric of society so hard and so fast.

Closest I can think of would be Islam or the mongol empire. But the stability they brought, also disincentivized the development and Spread of a scholar /craftsman learning institution.

In contrast Europe was a veritable messy orgy with how much drama was flying around up and down the entirety of society.

OL is correct. Earth has its own tech. They don't need bleed torsion generators. He just missed that the pot needs more stirring not less, if he wants people to be more proactive about fixing and advancing towards the next age.

At the risk of overusing the metaphor.
The sauce is drying out. Needs more stock.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Then instead of a bleed-torsion generator he should have put out something that was better than Earth's norm but still within the ability for normal researchers to figure it out and proliferate it.

From what I recall, the people on Earth that already had that kind of tech were deliberately sitting on it for one reason or another. Usually because they profited in some way from keeping things stagnant, or because they were a supervillain (or even hero) being selfish about "their" tech, or maybe it was just one of the effects of Smiley's bullshit.

Instead he puts out a single example of something no one on Earth understands or can replicate. The initial panic probably didn't last very long once they realized he wasn't actually sparking any kind of energy revolution and they could essentially continue business as usual. Well, usual in the sense of things before the double whammy of the Sheeda and the Anti-Life.

Releasing without patent something "normal" people could figure out would have been way the hell more effective.

EDIT: I'll also say that I wouldn't even really care that much if he just couldn't be bothered to do it. I think I'm just more bothered with the reasons he gave for not doing more than he has. Like, the Eloi excuse just makes it sound like he's up his own ass to me.

 

[Vaermina]

It really does feel like just a series of dumbass arguments for not helping as much as he could or should.

These aren't lost technologies of some ancient precursors that no one in the universe understands. They're understood and mature technologies that can be learned and taught. Even if it starts as small as just the KordTech team keeping an eye on that Bleed-Torsion Generator. The necessary knowledge can propagate. You don't even have to skip to the end of the tech tree. You can feed people things at a steady rate so they get there faster while still being able to learn along the way.

But unless someone goes out of their way to piss him off he never puts in the work to follow through on things, and so he does shit like philosophically jerk himself off by mentioning the Eloi or insisting suffering builds character to try to disguise how half-assed his approach to helping people actually is.

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That may be the point.

One of the big things Orange Lantern Paul's seem to get joy out of is "philosophically jerking themselves off". But their philosophical arguments are shallow and very much don't stand up to the scrutiny of real life. So they always run off to do something else before they can be forced to confront the reality that they actually don't know better then everybody else.

 

[SuperPulp2789]

I do appreciate when characters give the SI some push-back instead of just accepting his arguments. It makes it feel like a more honest debate.

It's kind of hard for me to say who is right given this is a weird comic book universe with conceptual entities and spirits of stasis and all of that. I don't think there's such thing as "evolution" of societies in the real world, but in the DC universe who knows?

If we want to make historical arguments, it's interesting to consider the case of Japan. When they were forced out of their isolationism by Admiral Perry and realized how far behind they were technologically and how much danger they were in of being reduced to a colonized state (as so many other countries in that region of the world were) they embarked on a campaign of deliberate modernization. They imported technology and studied it so they could build it themselves, and they sent out engineers to study in other countries and bring the knowledge back home.

I don't think it's necessary for the people of DC earth to invent all the technology for themselves. It's fine to crib from alien civilizations. If you live in India and are trying to import new power technology, does it matter if it was invented by a human in France or a Thanagarian across the galaxy? But the SI is probably correct in that people need to be able to learn how to build the technology themselves, even if they can't do it day one.

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It's fascinating that they did what they could to keep or adapt local culture to everything rather than just a full westernization

Helped keep their aesthetic

 

[Ardy]

Also, has Hera gotten her show back? It was mentioned with Chantinelle that she wasn't back yet but we don't know what she's been doing.

And is Amalek planning revenge now that he knows that Superman has zod in the phantom zone but has yet to turn him over, if he doesn't actually know that Superman is refusing to do so.

 

[Mr Zoat]

12th December 2023
10:02 GMT +2

"…so hard about it." The girl grabs an AK-47 from the table and moves it into a firing position. "You just point it and-."

The man instructing her grabs it roughly from her. "Not like that."

She gives him a flat look, flopping to the side. "Are you teaching me, or just-"

"This is a dangerous weapon! Until you know-"

"-jerking me around-"

"-how to use it-!" / "-like every time-?!"

They both cut themselves off when the noise of General Flag's jeep becomes audible. The girl takes a step away from the dirt road leading up to the house they're living in, while the man checks the gun, readies it and holds it at rest, checks his surroundings and then turns to face the direction of the sound. A couple of other gunmen make themselves known, emerging from the property with their guns similarly held at rest.

Flag himself isn't carrying any sign of his position or rank, and a single man -even one with a gun- isn't exactly setting off any alarms. Carrying guns around here just shows that you're not stupid, and Mr. DuBois's new squad of mercenaries fairly clearly aren't all that concerned.

A quick glance around to make sure that his men are all in position, and Mr. DuBois starts walking towards the jeep as Flag slows to a stop.

"You lost?"

"Depends." Flag leans forwards slightly as Mr. DuBois moves around the side to get a clear line of sight. "You Robert DuBois?"

"Depends. Who's askin'?"

"Rick Flag-"

DuBois's eyes narrow slightly. "Flag's dead. Fuck off."

"-Senior. Colonel Rick Flag Junior i-. Was, my son."

"Oh." DuBois nods, his posture becoming a little less confrontational. "I'm sorry. He was a friend of mine. A good man."

"Which is why I'm hoping that you'll tell me what happened. And how much of it was Waller's fault."

DuBois thinks that over for a moment. "Look, I can tell you a bit of what happened, but I ain't exactly eager to get Waller on my tail. My pardon wasn't exactly on the up-and-up."

"It's Waller, DuBois. If I could find you then she sure can. Best thing for you is if she stops being a problem." DuBois doesn't look entirely convinced. "Besides, I've got God on my side."

"Oh yeah?"

I allow myself to descend through the air, wings extended.

Tyra DuBois spots me first. "Uh, Da-?"

"Not-." DuBois bites his tongue. "Now. I'm-."

"Fine!"

Flag smiles companionably. "Yeah, I remember Rick being that age. But just this once, I think you should listen to her."

DuBois sighs, then turns around. "Okay. What-?" His eyes widen as he sees me. "The fuck?"

I keep floating down until I'm just a little above the ground. "God bless you and keep you, Mister DuBois."

"A-." He blinks. "Are y-?"

"No." I shake my head. "I'm not a thanagarian."

"So..?"

"That is a very broad word, Mister DuBois. If you are asking about the state of your own soul-"

Tyra pulls a face at him. "Then you're fucked, Dad!"

"-then your decisions towards the end of the Corto Maltese mission as well as your decision to favour legitimate protection work now suggests that you may be redeemable."

He shrugs, scoffing. "It's not legitimate anything. It's taking money from whatever arsehole pays us."

His daughter rolls her eyes.

"You provide security for the oil platform workers, and only kill those who directly threaten them. That you take the time to make that assessment puts you above many in your profession."

"No. I'm a professional. They're prats with guns." His daughter gets a pointed glare at that observation. "I'm not getting paid to waste bullets on people who aren't the target."

I nod. "It's not much, but the roots of virtue are there. You are not beyond salvation, Mister DuBois."

He looks at me for a moment, then turns back to Flag. "What do you wanna know?"

"Lan said that he got killed by some guy called 'Peacemaker'. Is that true?"

"Lan..?" He glances back and me and I smile. "Right. Yeah. But he…" He glances down for a moment. "Waller wanted records about the giant starfish thing captured or destroyed. Rick.. wanted them released. He didn't want the people responsible to get away with it. Peacemaker thought that if that happened it could start a new World War. H-eh." He shakes his head. "It wasn't even the bomb in his head. That would have been enough for me. Peacemaker genuinely thought it was the right thing to do."

Flag's face hardens. "He thought wrong."

DuBois shakes his head. "I don't fucking know. But it doesn't matter. It happened, and I killed him. If you want revenge, Waller's the only one left."

I shake my head. "I'm afraid that you are mistaken. Peacemaker lived."

DuBois frowns in mystification. "How the fuck did he do that? I shot him in the neck, then a building fell on the fucker. He should be a bloody pancake."

"I'm afraid that I don't know."

Dubois exhales. "I wouldn't mind shooting him again, but I'm not risking going back to the States."

Flag shakes his head. "Wasn't asking you to. You got the files?"

Dubois nods. "Yeah, but that's the only thing I've got keeping Waller off my back."

"Waller isn't doing so great anyway. Task Force X got shut down. They're only letting her use people who aren't technically human now."

Dubois frowns. "Well, that sounds pretty fucked up. But I can't do anything about it."

"Waller's got enemies. If you give me what you know, it can find its way to them. She can't send people after you if she's in a cell, along with all her friends."

"I'm pretty sure she can. And you gotta get her there, first."

"Okay. Who else got a copy?"

"Ratcatcher, but she don't need that heat. Shark, but no one's gonna believe that he understood what it was. Only other person is Harley Quinn."

"I've heard of her. Okay. I can set things up so it looks like she's the one who gave it to me."

"And I've just got to hope she doesn't press the button and make my head explode, 'cause she doesn't care which one of us it was."

I sing, and for a moment the universe judders. And then I stop-

"What the fuck was that?"

-and his bomb is in my hand. A tiny thing, really, but more than enough in that location. I hold it out to him. He takes a moment to process what it is, eyes moving from my face to my hand.

"Okay then. Wait here, and I'll get you a copy."

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

12th December 2023
10:02 GMT +2

"…so hard about it." The girl grabs an AK-47 from the table and moves it into a firing position. "You just point it and-."

The man instructing her grabs it roughly from her. "Not like that."

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Oooh, teaching the young'un gun safety? First lesson: The gun is always loaded, even if you can see the magazine sitting on the bench and an empty chamber. I'm guessing she hasn't been grasping that lesson well yet.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

She gives him a flat look, flopping to the side. "Are you teaching me, or just-"

"This a dangerous weapon! Until you know-"

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Gotta respect the threat, even if bullets aren't the instant-death packets pop culture makes them out to be...

"-jerking me around-"

"-how to use it-!" / "-like every time-?!"

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I'm guessing this is an old argument, and his next step would be 'If you're going to treat it like a toy, then I won't be teaching you anything!'

The both cut themselves off when the noise of General Flag's jeep becomes audible. The girl takes a step away from the dirt road leading up to the house they're living in, while the man checks the gun, readies it and hold it at rest, checks his surroundings and then turns to face the direction of the sound. A couple of other gunmen make themselves known, emerging from the property with their guns similarly held at rest.

Click to shrink...

Huh, important enough to have bodyguards? looks like he's doing well for himself.

Flag himself isn't carrying any sign of his position or rank, and a single man -even one with a gun- isn't exactly setting off any alarms. Carrying guns around here just shows that you're not stupid, and Mr. DuBois's new squad of mercenaries fairly clearly aren't all that concerned.

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Got to respect an Idris Elba role, even if it was an expy suspiciously similarly-powered replacement for Will Smith's Deadshot...

A quick glance around to make sure that his men are all in position, and Mr. DuBois starts walking towards the jeep as Flag slows to a stop.

"You lost?"

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Professional even in the face of a mystery guest. Good to see he hasn't gone soft.

"Depends." Flag leans forwards slightly as Mr. DuBois moves around the side to get a clear line of sight. "You Robert DuBois?"

"Depends. Who's askin'?"

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I'm guessing he can't see Rick's face from that angle yet.

"Rick Flag-"

DuBois's eyes narrow slightly. "Flag's dead. Fuck off."

"-Senior. Colonel Rick Flag Junior i-. Was, my son."

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And that one sentence tells him exactly why Rick senior is here, of course.

"Oh." DuBois nods, his posture becoming a little less confrontational. "I'm sorry. He was a friend of mine. A good man."

"Which is why I'm hoping that you'll tell me what happened. And how much of it was Waller's fault."

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Presumably the weighing of that guilt will decide on whether she gets to live or face her heavenly (or more likely hellish) rewards...

DuBois thinks that over for a moment. "Look, I can tell you a bit of what happened, but I ain't exactly eager to get Waller on my tail. My pardon wasn't exactly on the up-and-up."

"It's Waller, DuBois. If I could find you then she sure can. Best thing for you is if she stops being a problem." DuBois doesn't look entirely convinced. "Besides, I've got God on my side."

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True. Waller is merely the current head of the agency. If she gets aced, then whoever takes over might have their own ideas about the status of former Task Force members...

"Oh yeah?"

I allow myself to descend through the air, wings extended.

Tyra DuBois spots me first. "Uh, Da-?"

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I hope he's at least wearing something under his angelic gear. Or everyone is getting an eyeful right now.

"Not-." DuBois bites his tongue. "Now. I'm-."

"Fine!"

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Also a frequent exchange, I bet. Teenagers, am I right?

Flag smiles companionably. "Yeah, I remember Rick being that age. But just this once, I think you should listen to her."

DuBois sighs, then turns around. "Okay. What-?" His eyes widen as he sees me. "The fuck?"

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And I can just hear Elba's voice doing a slow drawling 'uhhhht...' between sentences...

I keep floating down until I'm just a little above the ground. "God bless you and keep you, Mister DuBois."

"A-." He blinks. "Are y-?"

"No." I shake my head. "I'm not a thanagarian."

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So did this world actually face a thanagarian invasion, or are there a few more Hawks running around than previously seen?

"So..?"

"That is a very broad word, Mister DuBois. If you are asking about the state of your own soul-"

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Didn't even have to say it, huh? I guess it was that obvious in his face.

Tyra pulls a face at him. "Then you're fucked, Dad!"

"-then your decisions towards the end of the Corto Maltese mission as well as your decision to favour legitimate protection work now suggests that you may be redeemable."

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So not out of the Pit yet, but if he puts the effort in, he may get time off for good behaviour.

He shrugs, scoffing. "It's not legitimate anything. It's taking money from whatever arsehole pays us."

His daughter rolls her eyes.

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It's the thought that counts, I suspect.

"You provide security for the oil platform workers, and only kill those who directly threaten them. That you take the time to make that assessment puts you above many in your profession."

"No. I'm a professional. They're prats with guns." His daughter gets a pointed glare at that observation. "I'm not getting paid to waste bullets on people who aren't the target."

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And ammunition is expensive, especially for his working guns.

I nod. "It's not much, but the roots of virtue are there. You are not beyond salvation, Mister DuBois."

He looks at me for a moment, then turns back to Flag. "What do you wanna know?"

"Lan said that he got killed by some guy called 'Peacemaker'. Is that true?"

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Now, how will Robbie respond, I wonder...

"Lan..?" He glances back and me and I smile. "Right. Yeah. But he…" He glances down for a moment. "Waller wanted records about the giant starfish thing captured or destroyed. Rick.. wanted them released. He didn't want the people responsible to get away with it. Peacemaker thought that if that happened it could start a new World War. H-eh." He shakes his head. "It wasn't even the bomb in his head. That would have been enough for me. Peacemaker genuinely thought it was the right thing to do."

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Yeah, Peacemaker is a weird guy. Amazed he hasn't had some sort of breakdown giving the sort of hypocrisy he indulges in.

Flag's face hardens. "He thought wrong."

DuBois shakes his head. "I don't fucking know. But it doesn't matter. It happened, and I killed him. If you want revenge, Waller's the only one left."

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Ah, right... Everyone assumed he was dead.

I shake my head. "I'm afraid that you are mistaken. Peacemaker lived."

DuBois frown in mystification. "How the fuck did he do that? I shot him in the neck, then a building fell on the fucker. He should be a bloody pancake."

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It is a mystery indeed. I wonder if even Peacemaker knows how he survived?

"I'm afraid that I don't know."

Dubois exhales. "I wouldn't mind shooting him again, but I'm not risking going back to the States."

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There's probably a lot of people who would like to shoot him.

Flag shakes his head. "Wasn't asking you to. You got the files?"

Dubois nods. "Yeah, but that's the only thing I've got keeping Waller off my back."

Click to shrink...

Presumably she's very careful about not pissing them off enough to come after her... Then again, Waller.

"Waller isn't doing so great anyway. Task Force X got shut down. They're only letting her use people who aren't technically human now."

Dubois frowns. "Well, that's sounds pretty fucked up. But I can't do anything about it."

Click to shrink...

It's quite a motley crew, yes.But at least most of them aren't convicted criminals and happy to continue their old ways, unlike some Suicide Quad member over the years.

"Waller's got enemies. If you give me what you know, it can find its way to them. She can't send people after you if she's in a cell, along with all her friends."

"I'm pretty sure she can. And you gotta get her there, first."

Click to shrink...

You assume she'd last that long, anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if someone arranged for a little accident, or a chance to go out on her own terms. Then again, she's not likely to commit suicide given what she knows from Lan...

"Okay. Who else got a copy?"

"Ratcatcher, but she don't need that heat. Shark, but no one's gonna believe that he understood what it was. Only other person is Harley Quinn."

Click to shrink...

...Who is probably still running around Gotham being a lethal nuisance to certain groups.

"I've heard of her. Okay. I can set things up so it looks like she's the one who gave it to me."

"And I've just got to hope she doesn't press the button and make my head explode, 'cause she doesn't care which one of us it was."

Click to shrink...

...Seriously, they didn't take the bombs out? Then again, I doubt Waller would let go of that little hidden leash.

I sing, and for a moment the universe judders. And then I stop-

"What the fuck was that?"

Click to shrink...

A miracle.

-and his bomb is in my hand. A tiny thing, really, but more than enough in that location. I hold it out to him. He takes a moment to process what it is, eyes moving from my face to my hand.

"Okay then. Wait here, and I'll get you a copy."

Click to shrink...

And that effectively makes him truly free of Waller now. More than enough in trade for a damning bit of evidence.

Good to see one of the nicer members of the former team has been settling into a peaceful-ish life. It's a rare member who doesn't end up back in the lock-up before long for reasons. And I foresee Rick going on the hunt for Peacemaker very soon, now that they know he's alive and evidently still active. That is going to be a messy meeting.

 

[PepeTheFrog]

Got to respect an Idris Elba role, even if it was an expy replacement for Will Smith's Deadshot...

Click to shrink...

Replacement? Yes. Expy? No. Bloodsport once put Superman in the ICU with a kryptonite bullet and in one of the more recent DC continuities (I think) brawled with Ultraman because Waller had him scouting out the Multiverse for her.

 

[Duke Long]

"This a dangerous weapon! Until you know-"

Click to shrink...

'This is'?

The both cut themselves off when the noise of General Flag's jeep becomes audible. The girl takes a step away from the dirt road leading up to the house they're living in, while the man checks the gun, readies it and hold it at rest, checks his surroundings and then turns to face the direction of the sound. A couple of other gunmen make themselves known, emerging from the property with their guns similarly held at rest.

Click to shrink...

'They'

Dubois frowns. "Well, that's sounds pretty fucked up. But I can't do anything about it."

Click to shrink...

'that sounds'?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'This is'?
'They'
'that sounds'?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

readies it and hold it at

Click to shrink...

"holds"

Besides, I've got God on my side."

Click to shrink...

Well more like God's intern.

DuBois frown in

Click to shrink...

"frowns"

Only other person is Harley Quinn."

Click to shrink...

Who's not exactly the most reliable.

 

[Darko]

I hope he's at least wearing something under his angelic gear. Or everyone is getting an eyeful right now

Click to shrink...

Given that he's now full angel, there honestly may not be anything below the belt.

So did this world actually face a thanagarian invasion, or are there a few more Hawks running around than previously seen?

Click to shrink...

Hawkman did appear in the Black Adam movie.

Yeah, Peacemaker is a weird guy. Amazed he hasn't had some sort of breakdown giving the sort of hypocrisy he indulges in.

Click to shrink...

He does become less hypocritical.

As for the breakdown...

See the series.

Then again, she's not likely to commit suicide given what she knows from Lan...

Click to shrink...

Assuming she believes him.

She knows that he wasn't always an Angel, so she may think that he himself is not fully briefed on how things work.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"holds"
"frowns"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[NightmareWarden]

I sing, and for a moment the universe judders. And then I stop-

Click to shrink...

I'd say one in eight angels in media with the reality-manipulating power displayed here actually WOULD use it in the smart way, as Paul has. Maybe one in eight would be able to heal the victim, after the bomb was surgically removed for the doctor character. It's just further proof that Paul is still in there.


Hmm. We could see an orange couatl/Queztalcouatl if he is still capable of using and mastering that ring after this storyline. Or if it shatters and modifies him into something like Alan.

 

[Cuchulin]

So not out of the Pit yet, but if he puts the effort in, he may get time off for good behavior.

Click to shrink...

Christian Hell doesn't work that way, once there you are stuck there until judgment day or longer.
I'd convert to Buddhism, Hell is still a thing but it leans more into Cool and Unusual Punishment than basic hell flame as well as being focused on reform as much as punishment, so you get out eventually.

Good to see one of the nicer members of the former team has been settling into a peaceful-ish life. It's a rare member who doesn't end up back in the lock-up before long for reasons. And I foresee Rick going on the hunt for Peacemaker very soon, now that they know he's alive and evidently still active. That is going to be a messy meeting.

Click to shrink...

Agreed, DuBois earned his relative freedom.

 

[Mr Zoat]

3rd June 2013
22:13 GMT

"So… Yes, ah, Hub City is functioning again. Since I was… Intervening, I… Went the whole hog. They've got… Inner city allotments, which they can convert into parks once things are a little more normal. They-. It's not enough to feed their population, but it will be a big help since there aren't all that many people still living there. And, ah…"

Batman continues working at the console.

I know he's listening, but it's… It's sort of the opposite of what my father used to do, where in the middle of a monologue he'd stop and say 'Yeah?', and then wait for a response so that he could check that you were paying attention. I know perfectly well that Batman is taking it all in as well as recording it all for later, but the lack of a visual signifier is a little off-putting.

"There should be enough spare generating capacity to satisfy the shortfall in Illinois's power requirements. Not much.. more than that, though. I've already told Ted Kord, and he's going to get a team sent over there."

"Power infrastructure."

"I didn't have any jovium on me, but it's as good as a conventional Earth-technology power network can be. I even.. added in small step up and step down transformers just to get a little bit more efficiency."

"Will it be enough if the manufacturing sector establishes itself?"

"Not.. quite, but by my estimates the regular supply infrastructure should be able to bear the additional load by then. Ah… Is there anything else I need to do?"

"No." He doesn't look around. "There are no short term plans for Illinois, and modifying the medium term plans for that part of America should shorten the time to normalisation by between two weeks and three months, depending on whether you are able to restart their manufacturing industry and get the Dolmen Gates." I nod. "To be clear, I expect you to keep an eye on the city until then. While a timeline is relatively easy to calculate, it's also measured in excess deaths."

I nod. "I know. Ah. Could I please..? Have some guidance about our.. degree of interventionism? I feel like I.. overstepped today."

"You did not. While I agree that under normal circumstances having one man rebuild a city in the way you are planning to would be extremely disruptive to Earth civilisation, the degree of disruption which we're already experiencing is so great that it makes no sense to make it a consideration."

"So I should do more?"

"You should consider yourself authorised to do more if you think it appropriate."

"It's just…" I sigh. "I've said that bleed torsion generators are beyond human science, and they almost are, but I'm pretty sure that Thaddeus Sivana, Thaddeus Junior or Georgia Sivana could make them."

"If you can persuade them to involve themselves in reconstruction, then do so. Dismissed."

I… Nod, and back away-. Before remembering that I can teleport and

doing that instead. Normally I'd be perfectly happy to take Batman's word for something like this, but under the circumstances I think it's worth checking with my most normal

acquaintance.

3rd June 2013
17:16 GMT -5

But I've learned from the last few times I've done this, and this time I make a point of appearing a little further away.

Mr. Queen stays on the rooftop for a moment, watching the delivery lorries pulling up to the distribution centre below. After a moment he glances back.

"Hey, that was almost subtle. You feeling okay?"

"Ah. Maybe? I'm not sure about something I just did-."

He breathes in rather sharply. "Did anyone die?"

"Not as a direct result of my actions. In fact, statistically, the death rate should decrease now that Hub City has air conditioning again."

"Hub?" He turns around to give me his full attention. "Okay, what's happening in Hub?"

"Me. Apparently, I bought it because I fixed it, which is fine as I don't have an assigned home city."

"I guess if you're getting assigned someplace to work on, the worst city in North America sure fits the bill."

"I don't suppose that Star City has any use for agricultural equipment?"

"We've turned the parks into city gardens, but we're not short of labor." He smiles wistfully. "It's kinda funny how much the kids enjoy digging in the dirt."

"Is it?"

He raises… One of his eyebrows. The stuck-on domino mask makes it a little hard to tell which. "You liked gardening as a kid?"

"No, but my dad used to garden. Decorative plants and food plants both. My sister and I helped sometimes. I had a little.. plastic wheelbarrow for moving stuff. You?"

"I liked watching other people garden. Didn't really appreciate the natural world before the island. Tried putting some plants up around the place since I got back, but… I keep forgetting to water 'em."

"Have you considered cacti?"

He nods. "Them, I over watered."

"I could set up some sort of automatic watering system, if you like?"

"Ah, thanks, but the whole point was that I wanted to do it myself."

"Mother of Mercy could probably make you a plant-animal that spat the water back at you if you over watered it, and watered itself if you forgot it."

"Let's not go too crazy." He probably-frowns. "Wait a second. Is this a social visit?"

"No. It's-. It's what you were saying about being 'The Man'."

"Okay. Ah, how?"

"Doctor Mist is probably the second oldest person on Earth, but after he founded Kor… He's barely had any impact on human civilisation. The actual oldest human is Vandal Savage, and he's ruled dozens of civilisations over the millennia. It's impossible to say what Asian or European civilisation would look like without him. If it was you-."

"It's not, and it's never going to be."

"But if it was… I mean, we don't know how long Danner enhanciles live, and I can dose you whenever you want. Which would you do?"

"Neither. I wouldn't take over a country unless there was no one else who could manage it, but I don't think I could just hide away like Nommo did." He considers me for a moment. "Worried about doing too much?"

"A bit. And… It's not just people becoming dependent on me. I didn't refer it to state or federal government either. I barely spoke to local government. I just did it."

"I don't know. Normally I'd say you shouldn't do that, but these aren't exactly normal times. And with you, it's not just that you can do it, but your ring's got records of all the other places stuff like this has happened to. Right?"

I nod.

"Then you know more about it than just about anyone. Don't worry; you've got plenty of people who'll call you out if you go totally crazy."

"Thank you. I'll bear that in mind."

 

[Oglymogly]

Don't worry: you've got plenty of people who'll call you out if you go totally crazy."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but not a lot of people who can stop him...

Also, I believe that should be a semi colon, not a colon.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Also, I believe that should be a semi colon, not a colon.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.