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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

I kinda assumed the principle of "subordinate rings" and the concept of "ring AI with preset agreed-upon task-guidelines" would automate away most the problem-causing behaviors.
Sure, for a Green Lantern. You can't channel the orange light and then not do the things you want to do.
Adolf Junior, that's a callback! And he's bringing the wife and kids too, if they survived. Y'know, I wonder if he might start making offerings to Hepheastean or another god after encountering the Americans affected by Paul for weeks on end. The benefits to Hub City would be nice, but what I'm really after is him getting enough divine juice to literally punch (or throttle) the ghost of Hitler if he is ever summoned up to cause suffering or tyranny.
He mostly tries to avoid thinking about it. He has no particular desire to punch the ghost of Hitler, and is a practising Catholic.
 
"It's okay." She pats her tote bag. "I brought my mace. Now can we go?"

Are Thanagarian maces some kind of cultural symbol? Then she could be referring to a blunt mace and not the chemical kind. Also, "Mace" the chemical is a trademark and she's an alien so thats increases the odds of it not being it, but OTOH she's been on earth for a while.
 
I don't care enough to use a power ring on everyone, but according to Dubbilex the g-sanchong symbiotes are ready for human trials. Not only will they filter a lot of unpleasant things out of a human body, but they'll also react unpleasantly to any attempt to add those things to a human body. Yes, they look like a cross between a lamprey and a sea anemone, and they need to be chirurgically implanted, but they do good work.
I feel like even with Paul's stunted genre awareness he should realize how horrible of an idea these things are in a comic book universe.
 
I feel like even with Paul's stunted genre awareness he should realize how horrible of an idea these things are in a comic book universe.

True, but 1. He's really bloody busy keeping society afloat so it can slip his mind and 2. It's hub city, I'm not sure they'd notice if it did go horribly wrong.
 
How did Bleez's tour of Thymiscryia go?
Pretty well.
How many amazons invented her to join their polycule?
Zero. That's something that you work up to. If they met her away from Themyscira things might be a little different in the short term, but even the libidinous Amazons have learned not to metaphorically shit where they sleep.
 
I do like this reconstruction arc, low stakes but necessary. With major stuff like magic and aliens getting in the way. Technology finally advances into super tech and alien tech being used. The world feels like it has fundamentally changed and there is no going back to the way things were.
 
The Man (part 11) New
3rd June 2013
08:47 GMT -6

It's been a while since I've done this.

Even at my level of power, I can't… Quite wave my hand and reduce a city block to its subatomic particles. But with a clear idea in my head and a clear desire in my soul, it… It looks a little like that, just slowed down. The long-abandoned apartment block-.

That's a lot of asbestos.

And lead.

And what novel types of mould.

It looks like it's getting vaporised. In reality, it's… Being held in a partially dematerialised state-. Well, most of it is. A brick is a brick and concrete is concrete, there's no sense in breaking it down that far if I can use it as-is. I can't dump it all into subspace without reducing my ring capacity to a fraction of what it is now and I can't store a physical object with this little emotional resonance in the Honden. But I can… Feel it, as the matter falls apart and slots back into place in the form I desire.

Building something. Something useful.

Mayor Connelly-Fermin stares at it with expression somewhere between awe and fear. "Have you been doing this a lot?"

"Which part?"

"Building new power plants?"

"No, not really. I've actually been avoiding doing this."

She tears her eyes away from the sight to frown up at me. "Huh?"

"Did you not see my talk? Or all the news articles about KordTech's new power plant in New York?"

"No, I guess not. So you did build one."

"Exactly one. My aim was to spur on the development of new forms of electrical power generation not dependent on fossil fuels. So I gave them a bleed torsion generator. And it worked: only a few months later three different high-tech companies were attaching their own novel power plants to the grid. And… Since forcing that sort of development was the whole point, I considered the project a success and moved on to other things."

"And we're still using coal."

"The rollout was never going to be instant. I never expected it to be. But, I did take my eye off the ball. I didn't check that the 'market disruptors' were continuing to do anything."

"So why aren't you making more now? Hub City can't be the only place that needs power."

"Because this technology is beyond what human civilisation can build. Or maintain. The people in KordTech's site in New York are just there to monitor the distribution grid. All they can really do to the generator is make sure that it doesn't fall over. Which… Do you know The Time Machine by H.G. Wells?"

"The book, the film, or the other film?"

"The book or the film, the other film wasn't quite the same. The Eloi are a fail-state; cargo cultists of the worst sort. If I start handing things out, I move our species just a little bit towards that fate. I hate that idea."

"It's not the same thing."

"Humanity would become dependent on a machine they don't understand to power everything. Then what? I've got the Green Lantern Corps' technical database. There's basically no human function I couldn't replace with something too advanced for anyone to understand."

"You can make..? Star Trek replicators?"

"I could make something close to them. The League's actually trying that in Greece with a nanofabricator. Fortunately, it's not very efficient, so it's not destroying their economy."

Okay, I've cleared enough of the site to start putting in the pipes and cables. No real reason not to more or less copy and paste the New York building; Helmut's the architect, not me.

"So… People can starve, so long as the economy works?"

"Economy: the creation and supply of goods and services. Government cheese is a fluke; a government handout to the milk industry that tried and succeeded in lobbying themselves more money after margarine was invented. And it's actually paying off now. People are eating that cheese. There's a similar thing happening in Europe, though they also had a now-abandoned policy of paying people not to farm." I shake my head. "People follow incentives. Over the last few decades that's led to places specialising and goods being transported long distances. The Sheeda disrupted that for large areas of the world, but America made it through that without too much damage. Then… This, and it turns out that having people live far away from places which produce food is a massive disadvantage because you can't feed them. That… Excessive centralisation of political power results in people waiting for someone else to solve the problem. And the tools to handle it locally -where it could be handled- just aren't there anymore. It's like… Building on flood plains, on a civilisational level. Pretty great, until there's a flood."

Walls rise, protomatter becoming carpets and light fittings.

Mayor Connelly-Fermin stares at me in… Oh, that's irritation.

"So you're not helping as much as you could, because it's… It's a false incentive? You think we'll just keep doing things like we did before if human civilisation doesn't suffer the consequences?"

"I know people will. Oh, there'll be one or two token changes. They might start building reserves of preserves to go with the cheese. Ship's biscuits, even."

Oh, right, a car park. Won't do much good in the short term, but… Maybe in a year?

"I mean, it's bad enough that the Justice League is having to lead the global restoration effort-."

"How is that a bad thing!? Mister Atom and Batman have been doing a great job organizing-! I wasn't complaining about them not prioritizing Hub City, I get that we're not a high priority, but the one thing that actually helps me get through the day is hearing about all of the places the Justice League is managing to fix up. If you think they shouldn't then what are you doing right now?"

"Making you Eloi, like I said. I mean, look at that." I gesture to the power plant I just built. And then I throw the switch and the power begins flowing into the city. "Look at that."

In the buildings around us, lights brighten from 'dim' to 'luminescent'. And-. Yes, that's the air conditioning fans humming back to life.

"That's a good thing."

"For now, sure. But in the long run?"

"Because we get to have a long run."

I rotate back to focus on the building, completing the roof and exterior walls.

"People lived before air conditioning. It-. Okay, consider the Black Death. One third of Europe dead. If I'd been there I could probably have stopped it. But what else gets stopped?" She shrugs, shaking her head. "So many people dying caused the demand for labour to increase, empowering the serfs versus their landlords and leading to greater rights and freedoms to the poorest in society. Epidemic preparedness increased, reducing the effect of future outbreaks. It's possible -though unlikely- that all that death is why we have democracy and medicine today. It certainly encouraged both. And because I can operate at that level it would be irresponsible for me not to consider the long-term consequences of my actions, because if I had cured the Black Death at the time I'd have been hailed as an angel of the Lord and things are only a little better in that regard now."

That… Appears to get through.. A bit, at least. Now she's frowning thoughtfully.

"Could you do it? Let… All those people die?"

I look at KordTech's newest generator facility.

"Given… That I just built that… No, I don't think I could."
 
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I fell like that argument doesn't really stand up. He could just do things that would save people but on a temporary basis. When they can stand on their own again take the powerplant down.

Sure people would be upset but they would be alive and non dependent. Everyone gets what they want more or less.

And limiting current good works on the basis of hypothetical future issues, especially ones as philosophical as becoming civilizationally dependent on tech is... morally dubious at best. Paul is twisted by orange light so no real issues there, but other people would be, in my opinion, rightfully pissed at him if he rigidly stuck to and advertised that position.

Fortunately, he didn't.
 
I fell like that argument doesn't really stand up. He could just do things that would save people but on a temporary basis. When they can stand on their own again take the powerplant down.
It's thought that Jack the Ripper cause the start of what became forensic sciences, would we be 50 year behind if he hadn't killed all those people?

I get making a temporary measure but when you make a nice house with free food, good heating and cooling, comfortable beds, entertainment and all the stuff you need and take it away a few months later because "Crisis over no more good thing for you" how do you think people will react.
 
"People lived before air conditioning. It-. Okay, consider the Black Death. One third of Europe dead. If I'd been there I could probably have stopped it. But what else gets stopped?" She shrugs, shaking her head. "So many people dying caused the demand for labour to increase, empowering the serfs versus their landlords and leading to greater rights and freedoms to the poorest in society. Epidemic preparedness increased, reducing the effect of future outbreaks. It's possible -though unlikely- that all that death is why we have democracy and medicine today. It certainly encouraged both. And because I can operate at that level it would be irresponsible for me not to consider the long-term consequences of my actions, because if I had cured the Black Death at the time I'd have been hailed as an angel of the Lord and things are only a little better in that regard now."
Now I'm curious as to how many people genuinely worship the OLC and/or Paul specifically both on Earth and in space.
 
3rd June 2013
08:47 GMT -6


It's been a while since I've done this.

Even at my level of power, I can't… Quite wave my hand and reduce a city block to its subatomic particles. But with a clear idea in my head and a clear desire in my soul, it… It looks a little like that, just slowed down. The long-abandoned apartment block-.
And this is what people should think of when you talk about Power Rings being Awesome. The power, with enough motivation, to completely reform buildings into new things is pretty damn crazy. Yet most people just go 'make glowy gun'. Sure, variance in functions of the Rings, but still...

That's a lot of asbestos.

And lead.

And what novel types of mould.
Hub City architecture at its finest, eh? And all the money to deal with that no doubt went into the pockets of people other than the ones who would get paid to clean it up...

It looks like it's getting vaporised. In reality, it's… Being held in a partially dematerialised state-. Well, most of it is. A brick is a brick and concrete is concrete, there's no sense in breaking it down that far if I can use it as-is. I can't dump it all into subspace without reducing my ring capacity to a fraction of what it is now and I can't store a physical object with this little emotional resonance in the Honden. But I can… Feel it, as the matter falls apart and slots back into place in the form I desire.
So he instead has giant glowing balls of concrete and metal and plastic floating around him? heck of a show, if nothing else.

Building something. Something useful.

Mayor Connelly-Fermin stares at it with expression somewhere between awe and fear. "Have you been doing this a lot?"
And that is a reasonable feeling to have when you see someone reshaping reality with nothing more than a little desire and a 'magic' ring.

"Which part?"

"Building new power plants?"
Eh, I doubt he'd want to build old-fashioned coal, gas or nuclear power plants.

"No, not really. I've actually been avoiding doing this."

She tears her eyes away from the sight to frown up at me. "Huh?"
I mean, he's mostly been busy trying to stop Humanity from stupiding itself out of existence, or stopping alien wars, and assorted related things...

"Did you not see my talk? Or all the news articles about KordTech's new power plant in New York?"

"No, I guess not. So you did build one."
I mean, compared to the giant cake thing, a power plant isn't exactly newsworthy... After the first couple of days, anyway.

"Exactly one. My aim was to spur on the development of new forms of electrical power generation not dependent on fossil fuels. So I gave them a bleed torsion generator. And it worked: only a few months later three different high-tech companies were attaching their own novel power plants to the grid. And… Since forcing that sort of development was the whole point, I considered the project a success and moved on to other things."
And I'll bet at least one was Knight-tech cosmic converter tech. Or maybe Vandal Savage just kept that under his ass, sitting on it out of spite.

"And we're still using coal."

"The rollout was never going to be instant. I never expected it to be. But, I did take my eye off the ball. I didn't check that the 'market disruptors' were continuing to do anything."
Especially the inevitable studies and naysayers that scream 'it's not safe!' and insist coal and nuclear are perfectly fine... 😏

"So why aren't you making more now? Hub City can't be the only place that needs power."

"Because this technology is beyond what human civilisation can build. Or maintain. The people in KordTech's site in New York are just there to monitor the distribution grid. All they can really do to the generator is make sure that it doesn't fall over. Which… Do you know The Time Machine by H.G. Wells?"
And other than a few hypercognitives, can barely understand the scientific principles behind it, no doubt. And that's his big sticking point. He needs people to be able to make it themselves.

"The book, the film, or the other film?"

"The book or the film, the other film wasn't quite the same. The Eloi are a fail-state; cargo cultists of the worst sort. If I start handing things out, I move our species just a little bit towards that fate. I hate that idea."
And what he hates, he cannot make happen. Not without forcing some serious cognitive dissonance on himself...

"It's not the same thing."

"Humanity would become dependent on a machine they don't understand to power everything. Then what? I've got the Green Lantern Corps' technical database. There's basically no human function I couldn't replace with something too advanced for anyone to understand."
It'd be a golden age... Until he left and the machines started breaking down with no-one able to fix them.

"You can make..? Star Trek replicators?"

"I could make something close to them. The League's actually trying that in Greece with a nanofabricator. Fortunately, it's not very efficient, so it's not destroying their economy."
...More than the Anti-Life already has, anyway. I expect Ploutos is back in place now, stopping foolishness.

Okay, I've cleared enough of the site to start putting in the pipes and cables. No real reason not to more or less copy and paste the New York building; Helmut's the architect, not me.

"So… People can starve, so long as the economy works?"
Don't go twisting his words like that, ma'am.

"Economy: the creation and supply of goods and services. Government cheese is a fluke; a government handout to the milk industry that tried and succeeded in lobbying themselves more money after margarine was invented. And it's actually paying off now. People are eating that cheese. There's a similar thing happening in Europe, though they also had a now-abandoned policy of paying people not to farm." I shake my head.
Extreme measures sometime find themselves needed. But usually they get rescinded afterwards.

"People follow incentives. Over the last few decades that's lead to places specialising and goods being transported long distances. The Sheeda disrupted that for large areas of the world, but America made it through that without too much damage. Then… This, and it turns out that having people live far away from places which produce food is a massive disadvantage because you can't feed them.
The modern world is only three meals from total chaos, and all that. Disrupt something simple like that and things get tense.

"That… Excessive centralisation of political power results in people waiting for someone else to solve the problem. And the tools to handle it locally -where it could be handled- just aren't there anymore. It's like… Building on flood plains, on a civilisational level. Pretty great, until there's a flood."
And boy, the Anti-life was definitely that. Hopefully humanity learns the lesson it taught them and does things a little smarter. Of course, there are powers working against that sensibility. :)

Walls rise, protomatter becoming carpets and light fittings.

Mayor Connelly-Fermin stares at me in… Oh, that's irritation.
Man, he really gets detached sometimes when he's like this, huh?

"So you're not helping as much as you could, because it's… It's a false incentive? You think we'll just keep doing things like we did before if human civilisation doesn't suffer the consequences?"

"I know people will. Oh, they'll be one or two token changes. They might start building reserves of preserves to go with the cheese. Ship's biscuits, even."
Sadly true. Once they have a comfortable position, people won't try to disrupt it, be it a comfy chair or a civilisational-level practice...

Oh, right, a car park. Won't do much good in the short term, but… Maybe in a year?

"I mean, it's bad enough that the Justice League is having to lead the global restoration effort-."
Though to be fair, the world's governments are still trying to get their feet under them, some more than others.

"How is that a bad thing!? Mister Atom and Batman have been doing a great job organizing-! I wasn't complaining about them not prioritizing Hub City, I get that we're not a high priority, but the one thing that actually helps me get through the day is hearing about all of the places the Justice League is managing to fix up. If you think they shouldn't then what are you doing right now?"
Again, grabbing the wrong end of the stick, ma'am. What he wants, is for humanity to not have to rely on a handful of people to handle their shit for them.

"Making you Eloi, like I said. I mean, look at that." I gesture to the power plant I just built. And then I throw the switch and the power begins flowing into the city. "Look at that."

In the buildings around us, lights brighten from 'dim' to 'luminescent'. And-. Yes, that's the air conditioning fans humming back to life.
Probably the first time some parts of the city have had that much power in years.

"That's a good thing."

"For now, sure. But in the long run?"
As he pointed out, people are lazy when they're content..

"Because we get to have a long run."

I rotate back to focus on the building, completing the roof and exterior walls.
Yeah, but at what price?

"People lived before air conditioning. It-. Okay, consider the Black Death. One third of Europe dead. If I'd been there I could probably have stopped it. But what else gets stopped?" She shrugs, shaking her head. "So many people dying caused the demand for labour to increase, empowering the serfs versus their landlords and leading to greater rights and freedoms to the poorest in society. Epidemic preparedness increased, reducing the effect of future outbreaks. It's possible -though unlikely- that all that death is why we have democracy and medicine today.
Certainly a contributing factor, maybe? History is just too complex to pin that sort of thing to single events. Even he admits that in his own point...

"It certainly encouraged both. And because I can operate at that level it would be irresponsible for me not to consider the long-term consequences of my actions, because if I had cured the Black Death at the time I'd have been hailed as an angel of the Lord and things are only a little better in that regard now."
And there are people out there who would worship him at this point. There's some in the DCU who worship Superman, after all...

That… Appears to get through.. A bit, at least. Now she's frowning thoughtfully.

"Could you do it? Let… All those people die?"
See, that's the question you should ask. Not 'why would you not do this thing?' But rather, 'Why wouldn't you do this thing?'

I look at KordTech's newest generator facility.

"Given… That I just built that… No, I don't think I could."
I wonder if Ted will have to send people out here to look after it, or if he'll hire locals to do that. More likely the former while he sets up the latter...

An interesting bit of philosophical musing on OL's part. It's like the old 'Give a man a fish and he eats for a day' parable writ large. The hard part is teaching humanity to fish, to continue that analogy. By and large, most would rather be given what we want than go and do it ourselves, after all. 😒 It's in our nature, these days...
 
I get making a temporary measure but when you make a nice house with free food, good heating and cooling, comfortable beds, entertainment and all the stuff you need and take it away a few months later because "Crisis over no more good thing for you" how do you think people will react.

Sure people would be upset but they would be alive and non dependent. Everyone gets what they want more or less.

And don't provide luxuries. Just what they need to survive at a somewhat decent level and rebuild without having to worry about basic survival. To let them plan for months and years instead of days and weeks.
 
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"Economy: the creation and supply of goods and services. Government cheese is a fluke; a government handout to the milk industry that tried and succeeded in lobbying themselves more money after margarine was invented. And it's actually paying off now. People are eating that cheese. There's a similar thing happening in Europe, though they also had a now-abandoned policy of paying people not to farm." I shake my head. "People follow incentives. Over the last few decades that's lead to places specialising and goods being transported long distances. The Sheeda disrupted that for large areas of the world, but America made it through that without too much damage. Then… This, and it turns out that having people live far away from places which produce food is a massive disadvantage because you can't feed them. That… Excessive centralisation of political power results in people waiting for someone else to solve the problem. And the tools to handle it locally -where it could be handled- just aren't there anymore. It's like… Building on food plains, on a civilisational level. Pretty great, until there's a flood."
'led'
'flood'
"I know people will. Oh, they'll be one or two token changes. They might start building reserves of preserves to go with the cheese. Ship's biscuits, even."
'there'll be'
or
'they'll make'

He's more similar to Doctor Mist than I realised, even down to realising that he doesn't have the stomach to just sit back and watch. Of course not as extreme, he'd never become a hermit, but still. I wonder if Doctor Mist rubbed off on him at all, or if it's purely convergent memetic evolution.
 
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I kinda assumed the principle of "subordinate rings" and the concept of "ring AI with preset agreed-upon task-guidelines" would automate away most the problem-causing behaviors.

"Congratulations, you now have a temporary orange ring that will assist you in your specific taskset and help prioritize your labor with the network of the greater Corps by establishing mission objectives both for you and by you."

I just see it as a case of "I really wish i had a proper tool for this right now" writ small but repeatedly.

AKA, gamify the reconstruction effort.
I'm guessing part of the risk is that allowing people that experience means some of them could learn to bypass any such ring AI limitations. I think it's something Batman and Atom would need to approve.
 
"Given… That I just built that… No, I don't think I could."

All the philosophy and pondering in the world cannot save a child from starvation. But it's incredibly hard to know where to draw the line. Also - did the mayor of Hub City ever try reaching out to OL? Because HC is exactly the kind of place Paul would love to help fix.

When they can stand on their own again take the powerplant down.

That's how you become a villain. The hard, ugly truth is that few politicians are able to solve a problem their populace does not want solved. 'Good enough' is truly the enemy of the better. Or, alternately, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
 
That's how you become a villain. The hard, ugly truth is that few politicians are able to solve a problem their populace does not want solved. 'Good enough' is truly the enemy of the better. Or, alternately, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.'
Providing temporary aid won't make someone a villain.

The stuff disaster relief efforts build aren't meant for permanent habitation. They are meant to give people stability and survival until the disaster issues are resolved and they can handle their own survival. People don't get mad when the shelters can't stay open permanently so they can live there forever.

It's the same principle. The disaster was just much much much bigger than normal.

Just make it clear from the beginning that it's temporary and they need to make efforts to restore the ability to do it themselves.
 
The stuff disaster relief efforts build aren't meant for permanent habitation. They are meant to give people stability and survival until the disaster issues are resolved and they can handle their own survival. People don't get mad when the shelters can't stay open permanently so they can live there forever.
They absolutely do. Get mad they can't stay, that is. If the disaster relief structures aren't torn down, they will stay in use until they are literally falling apart; this is a known and active phenomenon across the world. People do move on with their life in the wake of a disaster, but most do so as a last resort. If you'd like to see a practical example, look at the number of complaints leveled at FEMA in the wake of a disaster - there is always some segment of the population that is angry they didn't get more help, rather than being happy they received help at all.

Just make it clear from the beginning that it's temporary and they need to make efforts to restore the ability to do it themselves.

Sadly, a lot of people hear what they want to hear, rather than what you intend to say. And sometimes it's hard to blame them.
 
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If you'd like to see a practical example, look at the number of complaints leveled at FEMA in the wake of a disaster
FEMA being terrible at disaster relief doesn't really affect my argument.

If Paul did a really crappy job then complaints would be perfectly fine then as well.

But this is getting a bit too close to reality so... let's agree to disagree if temporary aid is viable or not.
 
And don't provide luxuries. Just what they need to survive at a somewhat decent level and rebuild without having to worry about basic survival. To let them plan for months and years instead of days and weeks.
People should be worried about basic survival. It's pretty much the most important thing there is, and without a lot of people dead, it becomes a lot more difficult to keep the society as the whole focused on creation and preservation of institutions that ensure basic survival.
 
Things are shit so we build it better next time.
If things aren't shit, we don't need to build a better one until people start dying again.

We build too much and we waste resources on frivolous things.
We build too soon and things aren't appreciated and are forgotten.

We build too little and people change things... And leaders.
We build too late and we're left behind... Unable to compete.
 
"Because this technology is beyond what human civilisation can build. Or maintain. The people in KordTech's site in New York are just there to monitor the distribution grid. All they can really do to the generator is make sure that it doesn't fall over. Which… Do you know The Time Machine by H.G. Wells?"
And that is entirely your fault for providing the device but none of the manuals or textbooks that go with it.

Civilisation progressed beyond sticks and rocks because people do not need to 'figure it out themselves'. One person figures something out, generally via either immense effort or phenomenal luck, and they then teach others. Then the next person gets a higher starting point and figures out something else.
As far as civilisation and 99.999% of the people in it are concerned there would be no difference at all between some random scientist 'discovering' bleed energy and OL handing over some alien textbook explaining what bleed energy is.
 
I fell like that argument doesn't really stand up. He could just do things that would save people but on a temporary basis. When they can stand on their own again take the powerplant down.

Sure people would be upset but they would be alive and non dependent. Everyone gets what they want more or less.

It reminds me of a situation from a Star Wars novel, where a Jedi is talking about what one did in a training exercise that's kind of a "better" example of not providing an easy solution. Though it wasn't a real situation but a hypothetical in a classroom.

Basically, a young Jedi's solution to a town on a flood plain that was going to be flooded was to use the Force to trigger a rock slide to reinforce some levees and got full marks on the simulation. The older one criticized it as technically correct but leaving them dependent on Jedi to solve their problems with no direct involvement in the solution, which will just cause resentment towards them when they aren't there next time to save them. They I think proposed that the "better" solution was organizing the villagers into causing the rock slide instead of doing it for them, with the root problem being something for the Jedi to handle instead.

That being the whole reason they're living in a flood plain to begin with is corrupt real estate developers were forcing them out of their safe homes into dangerous areas, which the young Jedi didn't notice because he didn't read the local history files accompanying the simulation.
 
As far as civilisation and 99.999% of the people in it are concerned there would be no difference at all between some random scientist 'discovering' bleed energy and OL handing over some alien textbook explaining what bleed energy is.


.... in the crucial edge cases, the "no difference at all" becomes the driving factor.


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Whilst there are a few holes in the logic given above, in that it could also apply to their own discovery of the technology, the difference lies in the evolutionary state of their civilization: One has the whole set of answers given to them directly, alongside the massive pressures on society that such a tome will bring, whilst the other means gradual societal shifts to accommodate the singular discovery alone at a given point in time.


The scale of the answers given at a time & their cumulative pressure upon society is where the hesitation comes from. Even in the most optimistic sense I can muster, given the hefty chance of a civilizational collapse under a "book of answers" scenario, OL is right to hold back.





And this is minor compared to the weird latent sense of entitlement that Myra exhibits once help was voluntarily given by OL, out of his own generosity. To respond to the help with what amounts to "why aren't you doing more"..... 🥶
 
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