With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · Monday at 6:49 AM

Mr Zoat said:
6th March 2025
09:21 GMT -5

"Mark, honey?" Deborah Grayson looks up in surprise as Invincible walks into her house. "What's going on?"

"Ah." He stops right where he is, freezing up. "H-hey."

Yeah, that moment of freezing up could just be relief, but she should be on her guard already, given the alternate Invincibles have been running wild. There would have been confused news coverage when the whole thing started, after all...

I spotted that the recently-rebuilt house on the other side of the road is still a G.D.A. observation post. Omni-Man's wife could easily become a target, and then there's the fact that the local Invincible and his brother live here most of the time. The people there have almost certainly sent a message to their superiors, though whether they've notified the local-.

As if they wouldn't have, since the GDA agents would know the real Invincible isn't anywhere near here.

Oh, they have. And Atom Eve too, by the looks of things. And they are not hanging around.

"Is that all I'm getting?"

Oh, Momma almost certainly knows it's not her Mark, I see.

"N-. No. No, ah… Okay, ah, a bunch of different versions of me from parallel universes are invading-."

"Is it Angstrom?"

I imagine she's heard plenty about him, given Mark apparently thought he'd crossed a pretty major line defeating him.

"Yes! Yes. And-."

"I thought you… I thought you killed him? You… Said…"

Ah, she had. And sadly, it didn't stick.

Oh. That's news. "Ah." Invincible isn't acting well, but he was so overtly discomported anyway that it looks like a natural continuation of how he was behaving from the moment he opened the door. "I thought I did, too. He's got a big scar across his face and a bunch of cybernetic implants, so I guess someone stuck him back together again. It's not like we understood everything about what his power can do." She nods. "But I want you to get somewhere safe before I go out and fight them."

So he intends to 'steal' her before any of the nastier alternates gets to her first?

Mrs. Grayson takes a moment to control herself, then nods. "Okay. I'll call Cecil-."

"No. They're going after the G.D.A. and the Global Guardians first. So unless they put a secret bunker in the place across the street, the safest thing to do is head out of the city. Get somewhere remote, and stay there until there's an all-clear. Okay?"

Ah, ironic, that. Not that the watchers could do much against the kind of threats they're facing right now. Which is why they called 'bigger fish'.

She's already grabbing her car keys. "Okay. What about Oliver?"

Because this Invincible has a younger brother, and Invincible isn't used to taking him into account.

Heh. Yeah, alt!Mark's dad never left Earth, did he? No bug planet, no half-viltrumite kid...

"I'll pick him up and…" He sighs to cover up the fact that he's trying to think of something. "I can't… Keep him completely safe, but I can tell him to stick with one of the recovery teams while I handle the other Invincibles."

She nods as she heads for the door.

And without realising it, he caught the very essence of Omni-Boy. Plucky but too young for this shit.

"Alright. I don't like the idea of him seeing all those bodies, but I know that he'll refuse if we just-."

Invincible wraps his arms around her in a side-hug. "I love you, Mom."

Heh, a chance to say something he probably didn't get to back when he lost her.

Mrs. Grayson is momentarily surprised by the change in tone, then briefly hugs him back. "I love you too, Mark. Now-."

There's a sort of fizzing, crackling noise-

Whoops, backup has arrived. Let's hope the squishy human doesn't get hurt in the fighting.

"Incoming!"

-as the local Atom Eve shoots through the space I was occupying, violet construct knives outstretched!

Oh, this will be good. Emotional constructs versus telekinetic constructs...

"GET THE HELL AWAY FROM MY MOTHER!"

The local Invincible is staring down at Invincible, fists balled but not daring to attack in case Mrs. Grayson gets hurt.

Good, at least he realised the risk. But he's clearly very concerned for her, and probably not thinking entirely straight.

"Mark-?"

The fizzing and crackling increases as… I haven't seen Atom Eve fly that often. Apparently, she has to apply thrust through her feet, which seems inefficient. Pink energy bolts shoot towards me-.

Well, their Eve likely doesn't feel much need to do heroic stuff, much less at 'viltrumite-tier' combat levels.

I evade and shield, because I need to know how strong they-

Atom Eve comes to an abrupt halt in the air. "What?"

...Right, because she's probably never seen someone else with a similar power outside of her family. And I doubt there's any family resemblance between this alt!Paul and her. Plus construct colour...

-are. Detonation… Cracks the construct but doesn't breach it. Good to know.

Invincible spreads his arms out and steps away from Mrs. Grayson. "Calm down. I'm not here to hurt Mom."

So his desire not to get hurt is stronger than her will to hurt him.

The local Invincible walks closer to Invincible. "She's not your mom!"

Atom Eve isn't attacking. She's just floating in the air, staring at me. "Who are you?"

Funnily, she's got a lot of a Lantern's capabilities, especially when her mental blocks release. Though she lacks AI-supported constructs so she has to do things manually. Imagine if she learned how to do railguns while fighting the Lantern?

"Invincible thought that it would be a good idea to have backup, and I was privileged to be called upon. I am Orange Lantern, Janissary of the Viltrumite Empire. From our… Parallel."

"I know." Invincible pointedly walks away from Mrs. Grayson, opening a clear route to her car. "But in my universe, my mom's… Dead. I just want her to get somewhere safe. And I… I wanted to see her again."

Helps that Viltrumites don't ~~have~~ use their supersenses much, so once she's safely away from anywhere they might normally look, she probably is safe.

He shrugs, a.. little helplessly. But that doesn't seem to win him any points with his doppelgänger.

"Look, I'll help you fight the others. And I-." He looks up at me. "Lantern, get Mom out of the city!"

And somewhere else, Angstrom is probably fuming about 'ah, inevitable betrayals...'

"Certainly." I tether Mrs. Grayson to move her into the car's driving seat, and then tether the car and lift it. "Hold on tight, Missus Grayson."

And accelerate.

She doesn't actually need to hold on tight. It's just something to say.

She's probably holding tight anyway, given human instincts. Even if she's been flown in the car before, this is very different to Nolan's or Mark's style.

I could try transitioning out of the city, but there are technologies which can disrupt that and I don't want to get myself killed. I also don't want to get Mrs. Grayson killed. Looking down, it appears that news of the attacks is starting to spread. Roads are getting filled. Not clogged. Not yet. I'm not sure if that's due to some people being slow on the uptake, the believe that this will be over quickly and it's best to shelter in place, or if they've got experience with supervillains attacking road convoys.

Heck, if a fight rolls through a freeway like that, there's gonna be a lot of fire and death resulting from it.

Hm. Okay, this should be far enough. An out of town shopping centre with a large car park. Not in the countryside, but far enough from the city centre to be safeish and far enough ahead of the rush that she can drive safely. I descend, setting the car down gently.

"Good luck, Missus Grayson."

Heh. She's probably bemused by such a polite supervillain. Which this world will probably view them as, even if they join forces with the local heroes.

And then I fly back, focusing more easily now that I don't have a weight to carry. And-.

Oh dear. I've seen a lot of inhabited buildings knocked down over the years, but I had hoped that part of my life was over. Apparently not.

Eh, it's kind of inevitable when two super-strong beings fight in a world of cardboard.

The Invincibles are in the air. Invincible's body language is a little more relaxed, while the local Invincible is… Maybe a little less hostile.

"…recruited Doctor Sinclair to build more of his zombots for the G.D.A.."

The same zombie cyborgs they used on the badguys just now, of course.

Local Invincible nods. "Yeah, he did the same here. And yeah, I'm angry about it, but that doesn't make conquering the Earth for the Viltrum Empire okay!"

"Not even if they killed Mom?"

Local Invincible jerks back slightly in the air. "What? How?"

Ah, that'll be the big divergence, then. Literally one bad day...

"When Dad went… Active, Cecil tried teleporting all the zombots Sinclair had made to where Dad was. Except Sinclair was smarter than him. They appeared for, like, a second, then they hacked the teleport system and teleported right back to G.D.A. headquarters. Cecil and Mom died right away, and… By the time any reinforcements got there, their entire command team was dead.

No wonder alt!mark wanted to kill Cecil. He didn't get the chance with his local one and he's still angry about that fuckup.

Local Invincible hesitates, then nods. "And that's… Why? Because William and Mom were dead? And that's..? Justified? All the people did you killed?"

Invincible floats there for a moment, then shrugs. "Hey, you asked why, I told you. But the other usses are wrecking your world right now, not mine. Why don't we go deal with them first?"

And then maybe you can team up against Conquest, because he's gonna turn up in a few days... I doubt Angstrom will willingly send you back, so unless Lantern managed to scan his tech or is lucky enough to get a mind-whammy on him...

Well, at least they skipped the whole 'let's you and him fight' stage of the alternate-universe teamup. And with four OP Heroes, they should be able to steamroll the rest of the hostile alt!Marks. So it'll come down to tag-teaming Angstrom and anything he can throw at them. Ideally with reduced death tolls...

Darko · Monday at 6:57 AM

Chojin Patriarch said:
Helps that Viltrumites don't have supersenses, so once she's safely away from anywhere they might normally look, she probably is safe.

They do actually.

When they were still unsure what was happening with Nolan they tried to surprise him in the dark, only he reacted before they showed themselves.

It was sort of a clue that pointed to him lying about being caught off guard when the Guardians were killed.

Agumentic · Monday at 7:06 AM

Mr Zoat said:
"When Dad went… Active, Cecil tried teleporting all the zombots Sinclair had made to where Dad was. Except Sinclair was smarter than him. They appeared for, like, a second, then they hacked the teleport system and teleported right back to G.D.A. headquarters. Cecil and Mom died right away, and… By the time any reinforcements got there, their entire command team was dead."

Wasn't it previously mentioned that Cecil set off a giant nuke when Omni-Man breached GDA headquarters?

Mr Zoat · Monday at 8:18 AM

Thundersmight94 said:
I've been wondering, does every invincible Parallel have a version of Paul, or is Invincible!Paul the only one/few in this section of the Invincible multiverse?

The SI doesn't know.

Agumentic said:
Wasn't it previously mentioned that Cecil set off a giant nuke when Omni-Man breached GDA headquarters?

Technically. It was a fail-deadly that went off when Omni-Man finally breached the place.

Darko · Monday at 8:22 AM

Agumentic said:
Wasn't it previously mentioned that Cecil set off a giant nuke when Omni-Man breached GDA headquarters?

Either Zoat forgot, or evil Mark is lying to get good Mark to work with him in killing Cecil.

Duke Long · Monday at 9:37 AM

Mr Zoat said:
I could try transitioning out of the city, but there are technologies which can disrupt that and I don't want to get myself killed. I also don't want to get Mrs. Grayson killed. Looking down, it appears that news of the attacks is starting to spread. Roads are getting filled. Not clogged. Not yet. I'm not sure if that's due to some people being slow on the uptake, the believe that this will be over quickly and it's best to shelter in place, or if they've got experience with supervillains attacking road convoys.

'belief'

Mr Zoat said:
Local Invincible hesitates, then nods. "And that's… Why? Because William and Mom were dead? And that's..? Justified? All the people did you killed?"

Extraneous 'did'

CTrees · Monday at 10:59 AM

Mr Zoat said:
"And that's..? Justified?"

"No, Justified was a different show with Walton Goggins. This is Invincible."

HeroineRule34Guy · Monday at 11:12 AM

Shadowj6480 said:
Paul definitely feels like he'll just manifest a stack of papers or a flash drive and go "Here's my notes on ways to use your power. Good luck, and I hope your Earth fares better than mine."

Let's not do that - Eve is a smart lady, and a lot of the times people say she's 'inefficient' about using her power, it's during combat moments where she literally doesn't have time to think, or it's bits that just plain wouldn't work. Everyone on SpaceBattles-derivative forums likes to think they're smarter than the person who's had their powers for years, but most of it strikes me as Monday morning quarterbacking.

You don't know whether the seemingly ineffective pink energy bolts are just more energy efficient, whether she's relying on shortcuts because she doesn't have a power ring AI analogue and she's therefore having to depend on slightly enhanced human brain software - people are way too harsh on Eve.

Mr Zoat said:
"No. They're going after the G.D.A. and the Global Guardians first. So unless they put a secret bunker in the place across the street, the safest thing to do is head out of the city. Get somewhere remote, and stay there until there's an all-clear. Okay?"

Guardians of the Globe. Not a mistake someone in-universe would make.

Chaoswind · Monday at 11:20 AM

Darko said:
Either Zoat forgot, or evil Mark is lying to get good Mark to work with him in killing Cecil.

Or both are true and Omniman and Mark were trying to find Debbie and got to interrogate a few agents before they killed them.

Mark did say that by the time GDA reinforcements got to the control room all of the people there died, so the timeline works if Cecil tried to use the Zombots earlier than he did in the og timeline, like when Omniman went home.

Home confrontation happens with invisible troopers and Cecil sends the zombots.
They hack the teleport and jump back to kill Cecil.
Confused Nolan gets to interrogate Donald, and hears how the robots that were sent to stop him have killed his wife and Cecil instead.
Nolan goes to the GDI and gets slapped by the tact nuke.
Nolan tells his Mark everything he knows and eventually find Sinclair and get confirmation.
Nolan goes colder and more distant mission mode (even though he still spoke softly to mark when he disabled Eve)and Mark goes evil and joins him.

Bud-E · Monday at 11:48 AM

Mr Zoat said:
And that's..? Justified? All the people did you killed?"

Remove "did"

Old Knife · Monday at 12:02 PM

Thundersmight94 said:
I've been wondering, does every invincible Parallel have a version of Paul, or is Invincible!Paul the only one/few in this section of the Invincible multiverse?

Probably the latter. If he was, this parallel would know about him by now.
.....
So who are they bringing over? Anissa? Other Omniman?

Mr Zoat · Monday at 1:10 PM

Duke Long said:
'belief'
Extraneous 'did'

HeroineRule34Guy said:
Guardians of the Globe. Not a mistake someone in-universe would make.

Thank you, corrected.

Zig · Monday at 2:21 PM

CTrees said:
"No, Justified was a different show with Walton Goggins. This is Invincible."

"No, Justified was a different show with Walton Goggins. This is BWANG

Shotiegun11 · Monday at 3:44 PM

'Is he their universes version of me? But Orange instead of Pink. And male instead of female. And…British?!'

Shadowj6480 · Monday at 4:43 PM

HeroineRule34Guy said:
Let's not do that - Eve is a smart lady, and a lot of the times people say she's 'inefficient' about using her power, it's during combat moments where she literally doesn't have time to think, or it's bits that just plain wouldn't work. Everyone on SpaceBattles-derivative forums likes to think they're smarter than the person who's had their powers for years, but most of it strikes me as Monday morning quarterbacking.

You don't know whether the seemingly ineffective pink energy bolts are just more energy efficient, whether she's relying on shortcuts because she doesn't have a power ring AI analogue and she's therefore having to depend on slightly enhanced human brain software - people are way too harsh on Eve.

I'm not really saying Eve isn't smart here.

Remember the episode where she discovers that the apartment she fixed up ending up collapsing into a sinkhole? That's the kind of a thing that I think Paul might address. I'm not claiming that I could use her powers better, but I do think the dude with a Lantern Ring might be able to use the ring to quickly run simulations for what her power may or may not be able to do. Perhaps devise a couple ways that she might be able to get some of her tougher/more intense tricks to work without tiring her out.

Such as the trick she pulls with Conquest in the show, where she makes the air so dense that it actually manages to stop him for a bit. Though with the obvious caveat that it seems to be taking a lot out of her (though whether that's due to only recently getting out of the GDA's medical wing is unclear. Well, unclear to me anyways.).

There could also be a brief talk with her along the lines of the types of humanitarian aid she can give. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but for the most part Eve mostly uses her powers for fighting crime right? I assume she helps with the cleanup in the aftermath of any battles (though she likely hasn't fixed up buildings before given her inexperience (or maybe she got lucky and it was never a problem until the apartment she fixed up)), but I'm curious if she does things like, say, turning a dumpster's worth of actual literal garbage into perfectly edible food and water to donate to food banks or the homeless. And that's not even getting into possible ecological uses that I am not smart enough to actually think of.

Darko · Monday at 6:03 PM

HeroineRule34Guy said:
Let's not do that - Eve is a smart lady, and a lot of the times people say she's 'inefficient' about using her power, it's during combat moments where she literally doesn't have time to think, or it's bits that just plain wouldn't work

Yeah, no one is exactly going to be thinking straight when a guy with the strength of the Hulk is charging at them with the intent to kill.

Shadowj6480 said:
Remember the episode where she discovers that the apartment she fixed up ending up collapsing into a sinkhole

That wasn't because she didn't know how her powers worked.

It was because she didn't know that the land she made the building on wasn't stable.

It's why she started taking architecture classes.

Shadowj6480 said:
There could also be a brief talk with her along the lines of the types of humanitarian aid she can give. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but for the most part Eve mostly uses her powers for fighting crime right? I assume she helps with the cleanup in the aftermath of any battles (though she likely hasn't fixed up buildings before given her inexperience (or maybe she got lucky and it was never a problem until the apartment she fixed up)), but I'm curious if she does things like, say, turning a dumpster's worth of actual literal garbage into perfectly edible food and water to donate to food banks or the homeless. And that's not even getting into possible ecological uses that I am not smart enough to actually think of.

She does use her powers for humanitarian aid.

She's been seen using her power to make trees and vegetation grow much faster.

Agumentic · Monday at 6:14 PM

HeroineRule34Guy said:
Everyone on SpaceBattles-derivative forums likes to think they're smarter than the person who's had their powers for years, but most of it strikes me as Monday morning quarterbacking.

I mean, the writers are also not the people who's had powers for years, and often enough give less of a thought about all the applications of them than people on forums.

One thing Eve could do, not that Paul knows it, is use her power to create sonic cannons with anti-Viltrumite sound and do a lot of damage that way.

Shadowj6480 · Monday at 6:34 PM

Darko said:
That wasn't because she didn't know how her powers worked.

It was because she didn't know that the land she made the building on wasn't stable.

It's why she started taking architecture classes.

Oh I know, but that's my point. Like I'm imagining Paul giving her knowledge on a subject that she may not have considered in terms of how it relates to her efforts to help people. Again, I'm not saying she's dumb or anything. I just think that Eve quite reasonably might have things she doesn't know that she doesn't know. Unknown unknowns and all that.

Darko said:
She does use her powers for humanitarian aid.

She's been seen using her power to make trees and vegetation grow much faster.

Awesome! Guess I must have missed that then, my bad.

Darko · Monday at 8:43 PM

Agumentic said:
One thing Eve could do, not that Paul knows it, is use her power to create sonic cannons with anti-Viltrumite sound and do a lot of damage that way

Does she even know how to create complex machinery?

Her armor doesn't count, since it's basically just a solid mass.

Whenever Possible · Monday at 10:54 PM

Yeah, Invincible (imperial) facing off with Invincible (hero) is great, but when will we get to see Paul (janissary) face off with Paul (real estate agent)?

Mr Zoat · Monday at 11:29 PM

Whenever Possible said:
Yeah, Invincible (imperial) facing off with Invincible (hero) is great, but when will we get to see Paul (janissary) face off with Paul (real estate agent)?

You probably won't. The SI has no idea he even exists.

Ardy · 2025-04-15T00:44:45+0100

Mr Zoat said:
You probably won't. The SI has no idea he even exists.

Wait, there's one that's a real estate agent?

CTrees · 2025-04-15T01:02:49+0100

Ardy said:
Wait, there's one that's a real estate agent?

Unrelated to the SI

Mr Zoat · 2025-04-15T06:12:58+0100

27th June 2013
10:13 GMT -5

Uuurgh… Yeah. It's a reasonable question.

With Queen Artemis confirming that she's prepared to order the creation of Dolmen Gate workshops, and with Atlantis agreeing to provide the technical documents and instructors, that's now something I can rely upon happening. Which means that Helmut needs me to make a decision on exactly how I want the city's layout to work vis-à-vis the Gates.

Gates capable of allowing two-way travel for heavy goods vehicles aren't exactly small or light. And while they don't have to be a circle, it's a lot easier to make them circular. So do we just assume that they will be slotted into place when the factories are set up, or do we site them in public squares, or… Cul-de-sacs set aside for the purpose? I mean, we can mount them on cranes but it's not really practical for us to stick giant cranes in the city on a permanent basis. Maybe some sort of anti-gravity lifting unit that could fly them around as needed? I mean, Helmut can draft up designs for a variety of possibilities, but he doesn't know what technology I'm prepared to-.

A… Kite flies in front of me, with… 'Look down' written on it.

I look down.

Ah, a news crew. I'm a little surprised that it took this long, but with… Things being what they are, advertising revenue is way down. Private broadcast television has mostly died off, leaving public television and internet-based services, though neither industries are exactly in a healthy state. The air time that's left is so cheap that even I'm getting sick of my chocolate advert monopolising the airwaves. I think… I think the League is funding information broadcasts of some sort, but I didn't look into it beyond confirming that it's happening. Who is-?

Ah. Of course.

I descend through the air, the skivvy holding the kite reeling it in now that it's job is done.

Much like a gun, every microphone and camera is live until it's confirmed otherwise.

"Ms. Grant. How may I be of service?"

She smirks broadly at me. "Are you taking over the world one city at a time?"

"I'm afraid that I can't talk about the Justice League taking over the world, but I can tell you anything you want to know about Hub City."

"And why can't you talk about it?"

I land and put on my best dealing-with-journalists face. "Because Batman told me not to, and I don't want to make his life even harder than it already is."

"Why do you think Batman told you not to talk about it?"

"Because I was making his life harder than it already was. Would you like to talk about Hub City at all?"

"Alright. What made you prioritise it?"

"I happened to be here when I had an idea. And it clearly needs help even more than most places."

"And what was your idea?"

"With international trade at an all-time low and sea and air trade being almost extinct, there's a shortage of agricultural vehicle production in America. Hub has a lot of land no one's using, and it used to be a manufacturing centre which means that some of the people who used to work in the industry are still around."

And we've found… A few, and they've got symbiotes now so they're in theory ready to get back to work. Just… Have to actually build a complex… I think that if I do one as a proof of concept then I can leave the rest to mundane construction techniques… Probably? I'll check the timelines with Helmut-.

"Isn't Hub a byword for crime and drug use?"

"As far as I know, it-" I nod. "-is, yes. But I already destroyed all of the drug caches, the most significant criminals are either dead or fled and with Accalacan occupying most of the land where cocaine used to come from, I think they stand a decent chance of making it work."

Because this isn't just the best chance they're going to get, it's probably the only one.

"What happens if the criminals who moved away come back?"

"The Genomorph Collective has kindly lent a brood of g-gnomes to the Hub City Police Department. It shouldn't be too difficult to find them."

"G-gnomes?"

I point over to where a site manager has one perched on his shoulder.

"The small telepathic relay genomorph type."

"They're going to eliminate crime by reading everyone's minds?"

"No, of course not. The police force is nothing like big enough to do something like that. But being able to eliminate people from their enquiries and make sure that their testimony is honest will save a great deal of time."

"What about privacy concerns?"

"G-gnomes aren't human. They barely count as intelligent beings. They don't have any interest in things that a person might find embarrassing, or things that would be commercially sensitive."

"Still…"

"Outside of a situation where there's an immediate and significant danger to life, a person could just refuse to consent. That would probably make them the target of investigation when compared to someone who had just let them do a scan to eliminate themselves from enquiries, but that's a choice they can make. Personally…"

I stop, because despite what my colleagues have alleged I do remember my media training.

She tries to raise her eyebrows, but is defeated by her botox. "I thought it was just the Justice League taking over the world that you couldn't talk about."

"Okay, so do you know why the Third Amendment exists? Why not having troops quartered in your home was rated behind only free speech and weapon ownership in importance by the Founding Fathers?"

She nods. "Because the British had a habit of forcing people to let soldiers stay in their homes without paying them."

"Right. Because there was a brief period where there was a lot of that, and it was an immediate concern for a lot of people in America at the time. But when you think about it objectively, is it really more important to fundamental human dignity than the right to a jury trial? Particularly considering that there's no amendment preventing eminent domain? They can't take your house temporarily but they can take it permanently? Does that make sense in relation to an ideal form of individual-state relations, or was it just current affairs pandering?"

"So you think the right not to incriminate yourself is 'current affairs pandering'?"

"No, but it doesn't reflect the changes in reality. A-um… For example, Britain used to have a law against trying someone for the same charge twice. Double jeopardy. It was meant to cut down on frivolous lawsuits and prevent the state just repeatedly trying someone until they got the result they wanted."

"You're saying Britain got rid of that law?"

"Yes, because we discovered genetics. Suddenly it was possible to guarantee that a particular person was in a particular place. That a.. semen sample, say, came from a particular person. But if they'd had a trial based on witness testimony and the.. limited physical evidence that was available at the time and the accused had been acquitted… Even if now you could prove with complete certainty that they were guilty with a genetic match, you couldn't try them again. So, hooray for not having a constitution, a Bill went through Parliament which allowed the Court of Appeal to allow new trials where the prosecution had significant new evidence, like a genetic test that didn't exist at the time of the original trial and so couldn't have been used."

I pause to let her and her audience digest that one.

"I don't know how many criminals in America have remained free despite the fact that their guilt can now be proven. Maybe you could check that yourself. But I doubt that it's none give how many Britain had. The American constitutional right against self incrimination exists so that police couldn't use confessions gained through torture. G-gnomes don't torture people. And if that's unsettling, Atlantis has spells which prevent lying. Technically, compelling people to accept either would be unconstitutional in America, but… Why? What's wrong with preventing people from lying in court?"

She nods. "On that note, have you had any input into the Bill being put before Congress relating to the Justice League reconstruction efforts?"

"I didn't even know there was one. Do you have the draft text with you?"

dw7thdoctor · 2025-04-15T06:23:01+0100

OL seems to be making the case for a Police State. With the 'if you have nothing to hide' attitude. Sure, the G-gnomes might not care what they see, but people do not want deepest thoughts plumed by anything, or else an Amendment for freedom of thoughts might have to be introduced.

Lord Ernest · 2025-04-15T06:40:46+0100

dw7thdoctor said:
OL seems to be making the case for a Police State. With the 'if you have nothing to hide' attitude. Sure, the G-gnomes might not care what they see, but people do not want deepest thoughts plumed by anything, or else an Amendment for freedom of thoughts might have to be introduced.

If it's abused like the stop-and-frisk BS then it'd probably be bad. But if it's based on a legitimate investigation and you can still refuse I don't see a problem.

As stated, refusing would make you look guilty and probably make the investigation focus a bit more on you; but if you're innocent and circumstances made you be part of the investigation, you concede to a brief scan to see if you're actually related to the crime and that's it. Your innocence is proven and you get out of the investigation fairly quick. At least that's how I see it but I'm not knowledgeable about law and stuff, so what do I know.

Silverias · 2025-04-15T06:46:45+0100

Okay, OL has been...awful this entire thing.

"I don't want to help too much because people will rely on me, but now that I am helping, let's just start ignoring the foundational law of the land."

The right against self-incrimination exists for more reasons than just "We can't be sure", there's a fundamental power imbalance between any one actor and the state, and part of the fifth amendment in criminal cases is that -you can't make adverse inferences if someone chooses not to self-incriminate-. You can't use it against them.

Shadowj6480 · 2025-04-15T07:02:15+0100

Very much getting police state "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" feelings from this most recent chapter. The truth spell I could at least feel wouldn't be bad, as long as it just makes you incapable of lying. If it forces you to tell the truth, I can definitely see some problems. Like if you can't just go "I plead the fifth" then yeah, that's going to encounter some issues as well.

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-04-15T07:08:26+0100

Mr Zoat said:
27th June 2013
10:13 GMT -5

Uuurgh… Yeah. It's a reasonable question.

With Queen Artemis confirming that she's prepared to order the creation of Dolmen Gate workshops, and with Atlantis agreeing to provide the technical documents and instructors, that's now something I can rely upon happening. Which means that Helmut needs me to make a decision on exactly how I want the city's layout to work vis-à-vis the Gates.

All right. Time for some city planning gameplay! Pity it's not as simple as SimCity, just plonk down a big stamp saying 'Residential' or 'Commerical on a 3

block. I doubt you can just set them up in a row, either, given the needs for space to approach them.

Gates capable of allowing two-way travel for heavy goods vehicles aren't exactly small or light. And while they don't have to be a circle, it's a lot easier to make them circular. So do we just assume that they will be slotted into place when the factories are set up, or do we site them in public squares, or… Cul-de-sacs set aside for the purpose? I mean, we can mount them on cranes but it's not really practical for us to stick giant cranes in the city on a permanent basis. Maybe some sort of anti-gravity lifting unit that could fly them around as needed? I mean, Helmut can draft up designs for a variety of possibilities, but he doesn't know what technology I'm prepared to-.

Since placing them in the factories' grounds would be a security nightmare, perhaps special adjoining transit hubs? Although if they're gonna end up being used by more than one company, perhaps a more public venue...

A… Kite flies in front of me, with… 'Look down' written on it.

I look down.

...Huh. That's one way to get his attention, I guess?

Ah, a news crew. I'm a little surprised that it took this long, but with… Things being what they are, advertising revenue is way down. Private broadcast television has mostly died off, leaving public television and internet-based services, though neither industries are exactly in a healthy state. The air time that's left is so cheap that even I'm getting sick of my chocolate advert monopolising the airwaves. I think… I think the League is funding information broadcasts of some sort, but I didn't look into it beyond confirming that it's happening. Who is-?

So PBS is currently the biggest free-to-air channel in the country?

I imagine the internet is proving the main route of information distribution now.

Ah. Of course.

I descend through the air, the skivvy holding the kite reeling it in now that it's job is done.

'Skivvy' being a gofer or junior technician, of course. Inevitably the guy who ends up lugging all the gear the others don't.

Much like a gun, every microphone and camera are live until it's confirmed otherwise.

"Ms. Grant. How may I be of service?"

Oh, boy. This combination always gives Batman headaches, doesn't it?

She smirks broadly at me. "Are you taking over the world one city at a time?"

"I'm afraid that I can't talk about the Justice League taking over the world, but I can tell you anything you want to know about Hub City."

Loopholes for the win!

"And why can't you talk about it?"

I land and put on my best dealing-with-journalists face. "Because Batman told me not to, and I don't want to make his life even harder than it already is."

Seriously, you do not tick off Batman. Especially now he has a Power Ring.

"Why do you think Batman told you not to talk about it?"

"Because I was making his life harder than it already was. Would you like to talk about Hub City at all?"

Or is this interview going to have to end there, hmm?

"Alright. What made you prioritise it?"

"I happened to be here when I had an idea. And it clearly needs help even more than most places."

"And what was your idea?"

I'm amazed people don't realise by now that he works best when he's doing something he wants to.

"With international trade at an all-time low and sea and air trade being almost extinct, there's a shortage of agricultural vehicle production in America. Hub has a lot of land no one's using, and it used to be a manufacturing centre which means that some of the people who used to work in the industry are still around."

And probably know a few tricks about the machines learned over the years. Seriously, old hands now stuff that never gets written down. Even when it should...

And we've found… A few, and they've got symbiotes now so they're in theory ready to get back to work. Just… Have to actually build a complex… I think that if I do one as a proof of concept then I can leave the rest to mundane construction techniques… Probably? I'll check the timelines with Helmut-.

Yeah, no point building one only to realise it's in totally the wrong place and you need to move the thing.

"Isn't Hub a byword for crime and drug use?"

"As far as I know, it-" I nod. "-is, yes. But I already destroyed all of the drug caches, the most significant criminals are either dead or fled and with Accalacan occupying most of the land where cocaine used to come from, I think they stand a decent chance of making it work."

Now it can earn a new fame as the place that connects many others.

Because this isn't just the best chance they're going to get, it's probably the only one.

"What happens if the criminals who moved away come back?"

I suspect his presence will encourage them to stay away. But for times he's not around...

"The Genomorph Collective has kindly leant a brood of g-gnomes to the Hub City Police Department. It shouldn't be too difficult to find them."

"G-gnomes?"

I point over to where a site manager has one perched on his shoulder.

Cute little things, in an ugly-cute fashion. Probably get a little popularity from appearances like this.

"The small telepathic relay genomorph type."

"They're going to eliminate crime by reading everyone's minds?"

Well, that's just a silly idea. Like they want to be dredging everyone's minds 24-7?

"No, of course not. The police force is nothing like big enough to do something like that. But being able to eliminate people from their enquiries and make sure that their testimony is honest will save a great deal of time."

"What about privacy concerns?"

"G-gnomes aren't human. They barely count as intelligent beings. They don't have any interest in things that a person might find embarrassing, or things that would be commercially sensitive."

And they can probably delete anything they find from the shared memory when the case is settled.

"Still…"

"Outside of a situation where there's an immediate and significant danger to life, a person could just refuse to consent. That would probably make them the target of investigation when compared to someone who had just let them do a scan to eliminate themselves from enquiries, but that's a choice they can make. Personally…"

True, clamming up will get you looked at more than playing nice.

I stop, because despite what my colleagues have alleged I do remember my media training.

She tries to raise her eyebrows, but is defeated by her botox. "I thought it was just the Justice League taking over the world that you couldn't talk about."

I'm sure there's a long list somewhere, possibly in his and batman's Rings.

"Okay, so do you know why the Third Amendment exists? Why not having troops quartered in your home was rated behind only free speech and weapon ownership in importance by the Founding Fathers?"

She nods. "Because the British had a habit of forcing people to let soldiers stay in their homes without paying them."

Just one thing in a big old pile of straws. But to the people affected, it was a pretty big straw.

"Right. Because there was a brief period where there was a lot of that, and it was an immediate concern for a lot of people in America at the time. But when you think about it objectively, is it really more important to fundamental human dignity than the right to a jury trial? Particularly considering that there's no amendment preventing eminent domain? They can't take your house temporarily but they can take it permanently? Does that make sense in relation to an ideal form of individual-state relations, or was it just current affairs pandering?"

And Cat is probably going 'how the hell did we end up on this?'

"So you think the right not to incriminate yourself is 'current affairs pandering'?"

"No, but it doesn't reflect the changes in reality. A-um… For example, Britain used to have a law against trying someone for the same charge twice. Double jeopardy. It was meant to cut down on frivolous lawsuits and prevent the state just repeatedly trying someone until they got the result they wanted."

...Feels like this is something Batman will add to the List after this.

"You're saying Britain got rid of that law?"

"Yes, because we discovered genetics. Suddenly it was possible to guarantee that a particular person was in a particular place. That a.. semen sample, say, came from a particular person. But if they'd had a trial based on witness testimony and the.. limited physical evidence that was available at the time and the accused had been acquitted… Even if now you could prove with complete certainty that they were guilty with a genetic match, you couldn't try them again. So, hooray for not having a constitution, a Bill went through Parliament which allowed the Court of Appeal to allow new trials where the prosecution had significant new evidence, like genetic test that didn't exist at the time of the original trial and so couldn't have been used."

,,,I mean, fair go, but a little dirty for someone.

I pause to let her and her audience digest that one.

"I don't know how many criminals in America have remained free despite the fact that their guilt can now be proven. Maybe you could check that yourself. But I doubt that it's none give how many Britain had. The American constitutional right against self incrimination exists so that police couldn't use confessions gained through torture. G-gnomes don't torture people. And if that's unsettling, Atlantis has spells which prevent lying. Technically, compelling people to accept either would be unconstitutional in America, but… Why? What's wrong with preventing people from lying in court?"

Batman: 'I can already feel the headache. What did Orange lantern do now?'

She nods. "On that note, have you had any input into the Bill being put before Congress relating to the Justice League reconstruction efforts?"

"I didn't even know there was one. Do you have the draft text with you?"

Ooh, significant. I bet this is what he was talking about at the end of the last Episode.

Don't tell me, it'll either put the League in charge of things they shouldn't, or someone is trying to mess with superheroes. And given that Glorious Godfrey was a thing in 'Young Justice', I have a sneaky suspicion that plotline is starting to stretch it's wings. Either way, or in some other fashion, this is going to be a bigger headache than OL's off-the-cuff interviews...

Ngamer11 · 2025-04-15T07:19:07+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
Don't tell me, it'll either put the League in charge of things they shouldn't, or someone is trying to mess with superheroes. And given that Glorious Godfrey was a thing in 'Young Justice', I have a sneaky suspicion that plotline is starting to stretch it's wings. Either way, or in some other fashion, this is going to be a bigger headache than OL's off-the-cuff interviews...

Seeing as Scott Free, Barda, and Canis are on Earth, they'd recognize Glorious Godfrey at first sight.

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