With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Duke Long]

"…first time she's brought anyone 'round from America." Missus Hutchinson is washing the breakfast cutlery, having rejected my offer to do it for her. "You here for anything special?"

Click to shrink...

She probably thinks he's a Briton who emigrated to the USA, but I like to imagine that she thinks he's a full-on American who is putting on a comically English accent to 'fit in'.

"Sort of-. I like to think of the Justice League as a nice-to-have thing. I don't like the idea that our entire civilisation is carried on the backs of two dozen people. Like… We're not really doing anything that other people couldn't do, we're just going it a bit faster."

Click to shrink...

'doing'
I.. assume he's talking more about rebuilding civilisation, not superheroism in general? Because I don't think a lot of the stuff they do could be done by other people. Not without many years of technological and social advancement.

"Because he thinks that he should because he's very strong and clever and he has a bit of trouble with the idea that those aren't the only determining factors. But he was pretty much immune to the Anti-Life and he's also… Very good at evaluating macro-level factors and monitoring the wide scale effects of our work."

Click to shrink...

So if someone stronger and cleverer came along he'd think they'd have more right than him? Or would he just see them as a rival to overcome?

"He also struggles to comprehend humans and humanity."

"Of course he does. It's only natural, isn't it? He's a robot."

Click to shrink...

Bigot.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'doing'

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

I.. assume he's talking more about rebuilding civilisation, not superheroism in general? Because I don't think a lot of the stuff they do could be done by other people. Not without many years of technological and social advancement.

Click to shrink...

[Looks around at our world built entirely without magic or superheroes]

No?

 

[KharnTheBrotrayer]

Thank you, corrected.

[Looks around at our world built entirely without magic or superheroes]

No?

Click to shrink...

How many alien invasions have we defended against and how many evil maths have been used to damage the psyche of humanity and how many time travelling space elves have invaded us?

That's some super heroism we couldn't possible do.

 

[Duke Long]

[Looks around at our world built entirely without magic or superheroes]

No?

Click to shrink...

Well yeah, that's the point; we are in a world that doesn't have magic or superheroes. They don't exist. The situation is fundamentally different when they do exist. In a world where a guy can do a ritual to blot out the sun or separate children from adults, and the majority of nations aren't anything like good enough at magic to do anything about it, the world is doomed without superheroes. Given enough time, sure, governments can obtain their own magicians and make their own supersoldiers, but clearly they aren't doing it fast enough, and these apocalyptic events are happening now, not fifty years in the future.

 

[Mr Zoat]

How many alien invasions have we defended against and how many evil maths have been used to damage the psyche of humanity and how many time travelling space elves have invaded us?

That's some super heroism we couldn't possible do.

Click to shrink...

Ah, sorry, I misread your comment. In that case the best I can do is point to the sixty or so year gap between the JSA shutting down and the JLA starting up and note that human civilisation managed alright.

 

[mastermenthe]

Or worse, everyone on Earth but him could be experiencing a blind spot about the implications of the League having that much authority... Makes him look panicky and hesitant about having too much power. Might not be, but you never know...

Click to shrink...

I believe Anarky knows nothing is seriously wrong with the legislation, but used it as a memetic weapon tailored against OL, as a perfect means to fluster and distract the greatest threat towards Anarky's current agenda of secrecy.

Remember, Anarky is stupid-smart, and is certainly walking a path of suicidal-genius that he would be stopped from completing if anyone had even the slightest clue what Anarky's end goal is.

 

[BartlettMagic]

"No, not really. I think they can be trusted. And I don't think anyone could really stop Superman anyway."

"I-. Could-." Not the point.

Click to shrink...

hoo hoo, OL getting a bit big for his britches. now, i'm not saying that it's impossible or that OL wouldn't put up one hell of a fight... but c'mon, Supes would come out ahead one way or the other, no?

 

[Ngamer11]

hoo hoo, OL getting a bit big for his britches. now, i'm not saying that it's impossible or that OL wouldn't put up one hell of a fight... but c'mon, Supes would come out ahead one way or the other, no?

Click to shrink...

Not unless Supes got some support from someone else beforehand.

 

[Darko]

hoo hoo, OL getting a bit big for his britches. now, i'm not saying that it's impossible or that OL wouldn't put up one hell of a fight... but c'mon, Supes would come out ahead one way or the other, no?

Click to shrink...

He was already able to defeat his Earth 12 counterpart.

Granted, he had the element of surprise, but he'd still probably be able to do the same to the Earth 16 version.

He can transmute the surrounding environment into Kryptonite, make devices that can shoot red sun radiation etc.

 

[boo600]

I mean, he did give Superman that radiation shield. So neither kryptonite or red sun radiation should work very well…
But he used Majestic Orange Presence before the demon ball was a thing, and while he wasn't as elegant as Lantern Gozzi, he was also perfectly capable of warping space. And his AI automatically transports him whenever the JSI kryptonian attacked him.

Ultimately, he's a local reality warper a xenotech hypercomputer helping him dodge. In a fight between him and Superman, even without the Ophidian? Even if he doesn't normally match Superman's raw brute force and speed, he's got enough of both to survive him (see: Klarion's starro tech), and enough hax that he could kill him if he felt it was necessary - and that's assuming that he can't hack the shield and shut it down.

 

[Bolo]

Are we looking at an "Evil" Batman or something else… that's the question.

 

[Zig]

Are we looking at an "Evil" Batman or something else… that's the question.

Click to shrink...

No, The Question is more like crazy Batman. You're thinking of Owlman.

 

[GigaVanguard]

I'm really starting to wonder if Orange Lantern has been mind whammied.

Because he's missing so many obvious comicbook red flags at this point that I really can't see any other option.

Click to shrink...

Well this isn't the Paul from the Department of Common Sense, so.

 

[Vaermina]

hoo hoo, OL getting a bit big for his britches. now, i'm not saying that it's impossible or that OL wouldn't put up one hell of a fight... but c'mon, Supes would come out ahead one way or the other, no?

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind that all Kryptonians outside of Kara 3 are heavily nerfed in Mr Zoat's story.

 

[Darko]

Keep in mind that all Kryptonians outside of Kara 3 are heavily nerfed in Mr Zoat's story.

Click to shrink...

This is Young Justice.

A lot of characters are nerfed in this setting.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Anarky can't be that smart. After all, he's an anarchist.

But I suppose it will be interesting to see how scary an "evil", Yellow Lantern Batman can be.

 

[Mr Zoat]

10th July 2013
08:46 GMT +2

Beryl stares out across Shiruta for a moment, then cocks her head to the side and stares into space.

"Huh."

I wait for a moment, but she just closes her eyes.

"Please, wise and noble crone, share your wisdom with this unworthy one."

"Oi, less of the crone. But do you hear it?"

I make a point of listening, but it sounds quite a lot like it did last time I was here. The thing about Kahndaq is… They have their own oil extraction and refining facilities. Their own farms. They're a bit short on metal mining but other than that they're pretty self-sufficient. Sure, their exports took a hit, but they can stockpile or put the oil rigs in mothballs until things pick up again. After the Sheeda incursion they were increasing the size of their manufacturing sector to take advantage of the reduced fuel cost and the fact that Adrianna was perfectly capable of taking the carbon out of the air with her plants…

"Probably not?"

"This is the first place I've been that didn't get blasted with Anti-Life for a month. It sounds different."

"How so?"

"Difficult to explain. People walk different. Talk different. Talk the same as they used to, I mean."

"And other people don't?"

She focuses on me, raising her left eyebrow. "You haven't noticed?"

I make a flicking motion with my right hand. "How many remotely normal people do you think I talk to in the average week?"

"Right, you moved out of Gotham, didn't you? Okay, for example, people don't raise their voices as much. Here…"

I listen to the sounds of the city. Angry shouting, happy shouting, raucous shouting… And then I compare it to Hub City.

"I see what you mean. Is that everywhere?"

"Most places. Depends how close they were to a broadcaster." She shrugs. "And then there's the cars of course. Britain's opening the coal mines again."

"Wouldn't nuclear be better?"

"Where would we get the fuel?"

"Australia? I'm sure someone from the League could fly a few tonnes over as a one-off thing. I could. It's not like it goes bad particularly fast."

"I'll pass that on. Could you build the plant, too?"

"Well, if this law goes through, not only will I be able to build it, I'll be able to mandate its use." Oh. "So I guess that private car use isn't really a thing in Britain any more?"

"We're importing electricity from France."

"The shame of it. Those lovely nuclear reactors on the north coast, right?"

"The North Sea is still producing. The gas pipes are still there. Anyone with electric cars can still drive." She shakes her head. "We've actually started putting old milk floats back into service to keep supermarkets stocked. I've only seen them once before because The Milkman drives one."

I frown. "Yes, that's… What they're for."

"No, not the milkman. The Milkman."

"Oh! Oh right, yes. That's so much clearer."

"The superhero." She regards me quizzically. "That's funny. Do they still have milkmen in your Britain? 'round here he's who most people think of when they hear 'milkman'."

"Ah, we had one when I was little. I don't remember exactly when it stopped. And the.. dates don't quite match up, so it's not quite the same."

"And yours is-."

The door to the rooftop opens, Amon stepping through and holding it open for Dawn. She… She's switched to slightly more modern clothing, I suspect at Adrianna's suggestion, but a quick look at her body language doesn't suggest that she's feeling any more settled.

"Hello, Amon." Beryl smiles warmly at him and Dawn. He give her a quick nod before focusing his attention on Dawn again-. I extend my translation aura to her because intelligent as she is, as far as I know she's not an expert on pre-European American languages. "Dawn, right? I'm Squire."

Dawn regards her cautiously. "Are you one of Osiris' friends?"

"Ah…" Beryl looks at Amon for a moment. "Yeah, I'd say we're friends. We're on the same team. I'm here because Orange Lantern thinks I might be able to help you."

"'Help'…" She shakes her head. "I have visited the descendants of my people. I have visited people who live as we lived. I have no bond with either of them. My world is vanished in the dust of the past. You cannot rebuild a fire from ash."

Beryl thinks for a moment, and then nods. "Okay, let's not bother, then. The other thing we're here for is that Orange Lantern is worried about a law our governments are passing and wants us to take a look at it."

"I don't know anything about your.. councils."

"You're not really starting with a disadvantage there. Honestly, having someone who doesn't know how they work will probably help."

Dawn doesn't look even slightly convinced.

But I smile. "Amon, did Adom ever tell you about the time when Captain Marvel tried explaining the American government to him?"

Amon nods. "When he told me of the American system, he said that he was recounting what Captain Marvel told him, with his own observations."

"Ah. So he didn't mention that him doing that forced Marvel to rethink the whole thing?" Dawn watches as Amon shakes his head. "Marvel thought that the brilliance of the system was self-evident. But when he had to explain why some things work the way they do, he couldn't convince an open-minded and disinterested party. For the first time in his life he had to think about whether or not there were better ways to handle things. He actually wrote an essay on how the American system of government has changed over the centuries, and how some things people today consider essential are actually pretty recent changes."

Amon nods again. "So Dawn can help, because she does not know the system, and so does not assume that it makes any sense."

Dawn shakes her head. "Nothing I have seen of this world makes sense. And I cannot read your language."

"I can translate it for you. There will be a few words which don't-."

"My language doesn't have a written form. I can understand a handful of words."

"Okay, well, I can make a machine that can read the words to you when you point it at them. Is that any good?"

She thinks for a moment, not really looking at any of us. Then she shrugs. "It may as well be."

 

[Darko]

seen them one before

Click to shrink...

"them once"

and so doe not assume

Click to shrink...

"does not"

 

[Mr Zoat]

"them once"
"does not"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[dw7thdoctor]

i think i missed something who is dawn?

 

[Stsword]

i think i missed something who is dawn?

Click to shrink...

Wife of Manitou Raven, a stranger in a strange land in that she's from pre-Columbian America.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

10th July 2013
08:46 GMT +2

Beryl stares out across Shiruta for a moment, then cocks her head to the side and stares into space.

"Huh."

I wait for a moment, but she just closes her eyes.

Click to shrink...

Probably taking in the sounds of the city. I don't think she's an infopath, so she's probably not sensing for any electronic communications. Remember, Shiruta, and most of Kahndaq, weren't affected by the Anti-Life thanks to Adom...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Please, wise and noble crone, share your wisdom with this unworthy one."

"Oi, less of the crone. But do you hear it?"

Click to shrink...

Heh. The joy of sharing similar senses of humour.

I make a point of listening, but it sounds quite a lot like it did last time I was here. The thing about Kahndaq is… They have their own oil extraction and refining facilities. Their own farms. They're a bit short on metal mining but other than that they're pretty self-sufficient. Sure, their exports took a hit, but they can stockpile or put the oil rigs in mothballs until things pick up again. After the Sheeda incursion they were increasing the size of their manufacturing sector to take advantage of the reduced fuel cost and the fact that Adrianna was perfectly capable of taking the carbon out of the air with her plants…

Click to shrink...

So it's become something of a paradise in this modern age. As much as a place with petrol-burning cars can be, anyway.

"Probably not?"

"This is the first place I've been that didn't get blasted with Anti-Life for a month. It sounds different."

Click to shrink...

There's bound to have been some long-terms effect from that, even with the White Light, that's for sure.

"How so?"

"Difficult to explain. People walk different. Talk different. Talk the same as they used to, I mean."

Click to shrink...

Probably slightly more subservience to authority, too. Maybe a greater willingness to listen to charismatic figures...

"And other people don't?"

She focuses on me, raising her left eyebrow. "You haven't noticed?"

Click to shrink...

That's a good question. Has he bothered to get street-level anytime lately, outside of looking for something on the ground?

I make a flicking motion with my right hand. "How many remotely normal people do you think I talk to in the average week?"

"Right, you moved out of Gotham, didn't you? Okay, for example, people don't raise their voices as much. Here…"

Click to shrink...

More of the 'move about your day in quiet unless you have to talk to people' mood? Like the whole world is still a bit depressed and gloomy.

I listen to the sounds of the city. Angry shouting, happy shouting, raucous shouting… And then I compare it to Hub City.

"I see what you mean. Is that everywhere?"

Click to shrink...

...Hub city might not be the best comparison, between the reduced population and the previous normal atmosphere.

"Most places. Depends how close they were to a broadcaster." She shrugs. "And then there's the cars of course. Britain's opening the coal mines again."

"Wouldn't nuclear be better?"

Click to shrink...

Eh, I suspect the plants will need considerable checks and repairs due to the Anti-Life interfering with maintenance schedules.

"Where would we get the fuel?"

"Australia? I'm sure someone from the League could fly a few tonnes over as a one-off thing. I could. It's not like it goes bad particularly fast."

Click to shrink...

And you don't need much at a time, unless you're running their systems very hard.

"I'll pass that on. Could you build the plant, too?"

"Well, if this law goes through, not only will I be able to build it, I'll be able to mandate its use." Oh. "So I guess that private car use isn't really a thing in Britain any more?"

Click to shrink...

With what petrol? I expect the government has been confiscating stocks for emergency vehicle use, and even if it wasn't, the price would be in a skyrocketing death spiral.

"We're importing electricity from France."

"The shame of it. Those lovely nuclear reactors on the north coast, right?"

Click to shrink...

Since they haven't gotten around to anything more advanced.

"The North Sea is still producing. The gas pipes are still there. Anyone with electric cars can still drive." She shakes her head. "We've actually started putting old milk floats back into service to keep supermarkets stocked. I've only seen them once before because The Milkman drives one."

Click to shrink...

What, electric ones or horse-pulled? Heck, some could even be pedal-powered.

I frown. "Yes, that's… What they're for."

"No, not the milkman. The Milkman."

Click to shrink...

Note the capital letters, OL... And yes, that's an actual person.

"Oh! Oh right, yes. That's so much clearer."

"The superhero." She regards me quizzically. "That's funny. Do they still have milkmen in your Britain? 'round here he's who most people think of when they hear 'milkman'."

Click to shrink...

Sadly, most people these days get their milk from stores. Not sure I've ever seen a milk delivery service, even when I was a kid in the Eighties. And my mother's side of the family lived in a town small enough to have had one back in the day...

"Ah, we had one when I was little. I don't remember exactly when it stopped. And the.. dates don't quite match up, so it's not quite the same."

"And yours is-."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, OL's from a little further in the future at the point of insertion, wasn't he?

The door to the rooftop opens, Amon stepping through and holding it open for Dawn. She… She's switched to slightly more modern clothing, I suspect at Adrianna's suggestion, but a quick look at her body language doesn't suggest that she's feeling any more settled.

"Hello, Amon." Beryl smiles warmly at him and Dawn. He give her a quick nod before focusing his attention on Dawn again-. I extend my translation aura to her because intelligent as she is, as far as I know she's not an expert on pre-European American languages. "Dawn, right? I'm Squire."

Click to shrink...

Looks like the lady isn't enjoying the new era. And if she could speak their language, she'd probably be letting people know about it...

Dawn regards her cautiously. "Are you one of Osiris' friends?"

"Ah…" Beryl looks at Amon for a moment. "Yeah, I'd say we're friends. We're on the same team. I'm here because Orange Lantern thinks I might be able to help you."

Click to shrink...

Hmm... How old is Dawn? Maybe too old for the juniors, but still useful as a team associate? that could be something useful to do.

"'Help'…" She shakes her head. "I have visited the descendants of my people. I have visited people who live as we lived. I have no bond with either of them. My world is vanished in the dust of the past. You cannot rebuild a fire from ash."

Beryl thinks for a moment, and then nods. "Okay, let's not bother, then. The other thing we're here for is that Orange Lantern is worried about a law our governments are passing and wants us to take a look at it."

Click to shrink...

True, her people were not any of the modern indigenous tribes. The comics equated them with Apaches because of the subtle 'Apache Chief' reference that Manitou Raven was made to be, but... Supposedly their magical tradition is closer to the Algonquin.

"I don't know anything about your.. councils."

"You're not really starting with a disadvantage there. Honestly, having someone who doesn't know how they work will probably help."

Click to shrink...

...And the language barrier? can't really download English into her brain, can you?

Dawn doesn't look even slightly convinced.

But I smile. "Amon, did Adom ever tell you about the time when Captain Marvel tried explaining the American government to him?"

Amon nods. "When he told me of the American system, he said that he was recounting what Captain Marvel told him, with his own observations."

Click to shrink...

That would have been an amusing game of Telephone. I hope they both double-checked against actual sources.

"Ah. So he didn't mention that him doing that forced Marvel to rethink the whole thing?" Dawn watches as Amon shakes his head. "Marvel thought that the brilliance of the system was self-evident. But when he had to explain why some things work the way they do, he couldn't convince an open-minded and disinterested party. For the first time in his life he had to think about whether or not there were better ways to handle things. He actually wrote an essay on how the American system of government has changed over the centuries, and how some things people today consider essential are actually pretty recent changes."

Click to shrink...

'Recent' having an interesting scaling for a system that's still got a year or so before it hits 250. Then again, there have been some big changes over the years. And that's just the constitutional amendments... (I couldn't find any succinct lists of actual law changes.)

Amon nods again. "So Dawn can help, because she does not know the system, and so does not assume that it makes any sense."

Dawn shakes her head. "Nothing I have seen of this world makes sense. And I cannot read your language."

Click to shrink...

She does kind of need to learn. And it may let her find something to do with her life other than 'being Manitou Raven's wife.'

"I can translate it for you. There will be a few words which don't-."

"My language doesn't have a written form. I can understand a handful of words."

Click to shrink...

Ooof. Good point, her existing language is long dead, and the closest indigenous ones are very different. Like a modern person trying to read the oldest recognisable written English without training. Seriously, look at it...

"Okay, well, I can make a machine that can read the words to you when you point it at them. Is that any good?"

She thinks for a moment, not really looking at any of us. Then she shrugs. "It may as well be."

Click to shrink...

Evidently doesn't think much of his plan, but at least she's being polite?

Hopefully things go better for Dawn than they did in the comics. It was not great. And perhaps she will be able to see oddities in the text, once she makes sense of the legalese wordings. Especially since she and Manitou probably wouldn't have been affected by Anti-Life in their magical stasis, I bet, so she'd be looking at it with untainted eyes.

 

[Steelplaza]

"This is the first place I've been that didn't get blasted with Anti-Life for a month. It sounds different."

Click to shrink...

Naturally when things appear in stories, sometimes I try to figure out why they are there for narrative reasons. What is this leading up to.

There has been a lot of focus about the aftereffects of the anti-life, and the Sheeda got a shout-out as well. My theory is that this is leading up to an earnest argument from Batman (and possibly others) that the Sheeda were Strike 1, and the Anti-Life was Strike 2, and if there's a third comic book style mega-crossover catastrophe then that's it, human civilization is Out. There simply won't be any more slack in the system to make a recovery. That it is in fact necessary for the Justice League to take over the world, not just in the short term of days or weeks, but in the medium term of years, because they need to have the power to stop a third mega-catastrophe before it starts and to rebuild as rapidly as possible so that human civilization is no longer one more catastrophe from dissolution.

And there are threats out there. OL has noted there is absolutely nothing stopping Darkseid from taking another crack at the Earth. He did all this damage with basically a trivial investment on his part... losing Finality Man was the biggest blow, and that was merely a New Genesis tool he had repurposed. What if he sends a few dozen Technoseeds?

The last time we checked in on the Thanagarians it was heavily implied they were Up to Something. Maybe Sinestro wants to start a War of Light. Plenty of threats out there.

OL noted that under the new laws the Justice League would have even more power than the Justice Society International did, but the JSI's world only went through one alien invasion that was less devastating than the Sheeda, much less than anti-life.

"'Help'…" She shakes her head. "I have visited the descendants of my people. I have visited people who live as we lived. I have no bond with either of them. My world is vanished in the dust of the past. You cannot rebuild a fire from ash."

Click to shrink...

Dawn sounds in a pretty bad way. I'm not totally convinced in the value of her "outsider's perspective" here, since the legislation being proposed is pretty far from an accepted status quo, but at least it gives her something to do.

But also OL probably doesn't care about her that much, other than a general desire to see people happy and doing something useful. He barely knows her.