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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Buggy123 said:
Zoat, I appreciate your references as much as the next guy, and it's nice that you link to them at the same time... but that's a two hour long video.
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It should be set to start in the correct place. Granny Weatherwax uses magic to remove all self-deceit from the duchess, and she shrugs it off. It's near the end.
 
Mr Zoat said:
It should be set to start in the correct place. Granny Weatherwax uses magic to remove all self-deceit from the duchess, and she shrugs it off. It's near the end.
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Less "shrugs off" than "realizes she is a memetic lady MacBeth, see nothing wrong with that and then says so" if I remember correctly.
 
Mr Zoat said:
It should be set to start in the correct place. Granny Weatherwax uses magic to remove all self-deceit from the duchess, and she shrugs it off. It's near the end.
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It's not. It loads from the beginning. Can you at least just edit with a time stamp in text?
 
Would he be the New God of Being Batman, though, or the New God of How Batman Is Perceived? Either way, he wouldn't be the New God of My Day Job Is At Wayne Industries.
 
He could be the New God of disguise? Could copy people's abilities by cosplaying as them.
 
So New God of Vengeance then? Makes sense when he says it himself, I guess.
 
Lord Ernest said:
So New God of Vengeance then? Makes sense when he says it himself, I guess.
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That might work but it's... not really vengeance that drives Bats. It's the idea of vengeance. That criminals can't get away with being total gobshites without a metaphorical boot ready to kick them in the face until they stop.

Vengeance seems too personal, too... involved. Batman's never been emotionally invested in stopping anyone specifically, he's doing it so he can be a living sword of damocles rather than because he just wants revenge on anyone who's ever broken the law.

It's a fine distinction, but it wasn't a red ring that chose Bruce Wayne of Earth. It was a yellow one.
 
Oh, I can agree with that, Batman doesn't have any personal vengeance against any specific villain or criminal, but I believe the mission is definitely personal to him. The guy is insane, after all. A lot of people, including children (unfortunately), go through harrowing and/or scarring experiences but they don't just dedicate their lives to fighting crime because of it, I don't think.

If Bruce had pursued a vendetta against the guy that killed his parents (or the people that arranged their murder, if we go for the conspiracy) that would have been normal. But he went full spirit of fear against criminals, built upon a general desire for vengeance but against criminals in general, or at least that's what I think.
 
He always seems more protective than vengeful or retributive. It's always about making sure no one else has to go through what he did and not about making criminals suffer.
 
AverusBlack said:
That might work but it's... not really vengeance that drives Bats. It's the idea of vengeance. That criminals can't get away with being total gobshites without a metaphorical boot ready to kick them in the face until they stop.

Vengeance seems too personal, too... involved. Batman's never been emotionally invested in stopping anyone specifically, he's doing it so he can be a living sword of damocles rather than because he just wants revenge on anyone who's ever broken the law.

It's a fine distinction, but it wasn't a red ring that chose Bruce Wayne of Earth. It was a yellow one.
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It could have been.

When the Seven Enemies of Man got released at a JLA/JSA gathering, Wrath went to Batman.

When aliens split the JLA into their super identities and their secret identities, Batman was a hollow shell without motivation, and Bruce Wayne was 10 lbs of rage in a 5 lb bag.

Eel had words to effect "Well well well, separate Batman from Bruce and you get a psycho and a useless fop, no big surprise there. What is a surprise is which one turned out to be which."

And the reason why Batman has a no killing rule? Because he's afraid that he'd enjoy it so much he wouldn't stop. Showing he is right is Earth-51, he killed the Joker, and for dessert he killed every single other supervillain.

So Batman is a very angry man.
 
Conqueror's Moon (part 10)
  • Threadmarks
    • 27th December 2004
    01:21 GMT -6

    Boom!

    The tube opens once more and Jean walks through, a new g-goblin at her side and a gaggle of g-elves, g-trolls, g-dwarves and g-gnomes following on behind them. This one has Ixy's open and youthful face as opposed to Jean's more matriarchal cast. The new one is also a little broader and has a noticeably increased amount of muscle mass. The effect is… Interesting. While Ixy was clearly designed to look like a young girl, Dubbilex an elderly man, Ecksey like his athletic younger brother and Jean… Like a combination of my female grandparents combined with Mrs Bale from As Time Goes By. This one is more androgynous.

    Which must be a deliberate decision on their part. I mean, yes, genomorphs don't reproduce sexually and have no interest in introducing the capacity to their species. Even if most people refer to Dubbilex and Ecksey in the masculine and Ixy and Jean in the feminine those aren't biologically accurate descriptors. They just assume them to fit in better with the sexually dimorphous species around them. So either they've decided that they don't want to fit in that way any longer, or they're testing this out, or… They don't think that the g-goblin getting assigned here needs to fit in like that.

    "Mister Grayven. Mister Batman." Jean nods politely as the boom tube closes behind them. "This is the newest g-goblin, Mito. I believe they will be able to meet your organisational and labour requirements."

    Mito.. themselves, bows from the waist, then straightens. Ah, this one has a more substantial tail as well. I wonder why?

    Batman regards them impassively. "Do you have a lot of experience?"

    "I was literally decanted earlier today." They blink. "However, I have been given access to the memories of all other g-goblins. I have Ecksey's knowledge of space station maintenance, Jean's knowledge of household management, Ixy's knowledge of human social interactions and Dubbilex's breadth of experience." They blink again. "They in turn have access to information and insight provided to them by over a hundred thousand genomorphs. I am perfectly capable of meeting your expectations."

    "How soon can you begin working?"

    Mito's horns glow for a moment, and the other genomorph types disperse. They then pull a datapad from a pocket and begin typing. "Fabrication of the more substantial parts is already in process. We will begin analysing the current structure of the Watchtower now in order to assess the most effective way to implement the upgrades. Assuming that we are granted access to all technical data, we will have a work plan available to you within an hour."

    Batman nods. "What happens to the other genomorphs if you are injured or killed?"

    "You will have to either wait for a new g-goblin or accept reports either nonverbally from a g-dwarf or telepathically by a g-gnome. Since we took control of our own creation, new genomorphs of all types have had modifications made to their cerebral structures which allow them to function more effectively if they are deprived of contact with the Genomorph Entire. All genomorphs can understand spoken English, though there will be a decrease in efficiency as they will find it harder to coordinate."

    "I see." Batman gestures to the closest computer terminal, where a cluster of g-dwarves are waiting. "I'll enter your people onto the system now."

    "Thank you."

    Jean watches as they join the g-dwarves, then turns her attention to me. "Do you require anything further, Mister Grayven?"

    "No, thank-."

    Shayera smirks faintly. "Do genomorphs do babysitting?"

    "Certainly, though so far we only have experience with older children. And development of the g-lamia has stalled somewhat due to lack of utility."

    "What's a 'g-lamia'?"

    "Genomorph phenotypes are named after mythological creatures, their name prefixed with a 'g'. Lamia was a figure from Greek mythology who ate children." Shayera frowns. "As a witticism, it would have been more effective if you knew that in advance."

    I clap my hands together. "Excited to be heading back home?"

    Shayera looks at me, then looks away. "No."

    "You could use the opportunity to introduce John to your family? Assuming that they're still alive, of course."

    "I'm an orphan." She exhales sharply through her nose. "Which is just as well. If anyone recognised me on Thanagar they'd try and kill me."

    "Really? The only people who know you came down on Earth's side were Talak's crew, and I doubt that they've had the chance to spread the knowledge. Everyone else would just know that you'd been sent on a long term mission. You must have a few personal contacts to draw upon."

    "I spent my whole adult life in the military. I doubt any of them survived."

    "Ah." I look away. "Sorry. I feel like a heel now."

    Her right hand clenches the handle of her mace, causing the head to crackle.

    "Why didn't they just ask for help?! Gah!"

    I shrug. "Why didn't they come to terms with Grayven earlier?"

    She grimaces. "Surrender?"

    "That's probably what the gordanians did. Aliens can't join gordanian clans. Grayven would have had to conquer one and convince the survivors to abandon tradition… Which he could use his god-voice to do. Then he'd have to either conquer other clans by force or talk them around. Probably both. Depending on when this happened and what was happening on Apokolips, he might have been able to draw on other resources, but based on what we saw and Thanagarian Empire records… I think he might be the only Apokoliptian involved. Point is, the very people who serve as his generals and governors bent the knee and benefited from it. He offered the Thanagarian Empire the same deal several times. They just didn't take it. Ever. If they had, I can't see any reason for him to treat them differently to how he treated the gordanians."

    "We have pride."

    "Yeah. You also don't own your homeworld any more."

    "Grayven doesn't own his homeworld either."

    I regard her sceptically. "Would you want Apokolips?"

    "I don't know. I've never visited."

    "You… Haven't been keeping an eye on it?"

    She rolls her eyes. "And how exactly would we do that? With our one human-built faster than light ship?"

    Oh. Yeah.

    "Alright, well, it's going to be a while before Batman and Mito have this place ready to support the hush tube we'll need to sneak onto Thanagar, and I've got a date tonight. How about we have a look around Apokolips first? See how they're getting on in Father's absence?"

    She hefts her mace-. "And make them think that 'Grayven' is threatening them?"

    "I was thinking more that we kill anyone who looks in danger of getting things organised, but… Sure, we could sic them on my alter ego if you like. I'm guessing… Virman Vundabar, Granny Goodness and Desaad require most attention. Virman will have the best conventional weapons, Granny the best warriors and Desaad the most sophisticated technology."

    "Granny Goodness mind-controlled Superman a few years ago. He killed Darkseid in revenge, but I don't think he managed to kill her."

    Hm. "My conquest aura should let me… Influence a faction if I slay their leader. Granny's Furies might be useful for attacking Thanagar, especially if we're trying to start a war between them."

    "It's all the same to me. Why don't we run it by John and Diana and then decide who we're crushing first?"
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    The tube opens once more and Jean walks through, a new g-goblin at her side and a gaggle of g-elves, g-trolls, g-dwarves and g-nomes following on behind them. This one has Ixy's open and youthful face as opposed to Jean's more matriarchal cast. The new one is also a little broader and has a noticeably increased amount of muscle mass. The effect is… Interesting. While Ixy was clearly designed to look like a young girl, Dubbilex an elderly man, Ecksey like is athletic younger brother and Jean… Like a combination of my female grandparents combined with Mrs Bale from As Time Goes By. This one is more androgynous.
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    Fascinating. A non-gendered g-goblin? I see they're branching out.
    Also: 'his'?

    While must be a deliberate decision on their part.
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    Which must be a deliberate decision on their part.

    I mean, yes, genomorphs don't reproduce sexually and have no interest in introducing the capacity to their species. Even if most people refer to Dubbilex and Ecksey in the masculine and Ixy and Jean in the feminine those aren't biologically accurate descriptors. They just assume them to fit in better with the sexually dimorphous species around them. So either they've decided that they don't want to fit in that way any longer, or they're testing this out, or… They don't think that the g-goblin getting assigned here needs to fit in like that.
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    Heh. Definitely branching out.

    Mito.. themselves, bows from the waist, then straightens. Ah, this one has a more substantial tail as well. I wonder why?
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    Mito, as in mitochondria?

    "I was literally decanted earlier today." They blink.
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    Only a Genomorph could literally say 'I was born yesterday' with complete honesty. :D

    "However, I have been given access to the memories of all other g-goblins. I have Ecksey's knowledge of space station maintenance, Jean's knowledge of household management, Ixy's knowledge of human social interactions and Dubbilex's breadth of experience." They blink again. "They in turn have access to information and insight provided to them by over a hundred thousand genomorphs. I am perfectly capable of meeting your expectations."
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    It's, to belabor the word, fascinating. Can you imagine what it's like to have access to your entire race's knowledge at any time? Besides the internet.

    Batman nods. "What happens to the other genomorphs if you are injured or killed?"
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    Sensible question. Especially since their tech support options are very limited.

    Shayera smirks faintly. "Do genomorphs do babysitting?"
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    Well, she is a new mother...

    "Genomorph phenotypes are named after mythological creatures, their name prefixed with a 'g'. Lamia was a figure from Greek mythology who ate children." Shayera frowns. "As a witticism, it would have been more effective if you knew that in advance."
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    ...Would they actually be designed to swallow their charge if imperiled? Ew.

    "I'm an orphan." She exhales sharply through her nose. "Which is just as well. If anyone recognised me on Thanagar they'd try and kill me."
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    Oof. Not a happy life. No wonder she likes Earth so much...

    "Ah." I look away. "Sorry. I feel like a heel now."
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    How's that foot taste?

    "That's probably what the gordanians did. Aliens can't join gordanian clans. Grayven would have had to conquer one and convince the survivors to abandon tradition… Which he could use his god-voice to do. Then he'd have to either conquer other clans by force or talk them around. Probably both. Depending on when this happened and what was happening on Apokolips, he might have been able to draw on other resources, but based on what we saw and Thanagarian Empire records… I think he might be the only Apokoliptian involved. Point is, the very people who serve as his generals and governors bent the knee and benefited from it. He offered the Thanagarian Empire the same deal several times. They just didn't take it. Ever. If they had, I can't see any reason for him to treat them differently to how he treated the gordanians."
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    A very astute estimation of the situation. It'll be interesting to see how accurate it is.

    "Yeah. You also don't own your homeworld any more."
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    Cruel burn, Grayven. Do you want her angry enough to feed you that mace?

    I regard her sceptically. "Would you want Apokolips?"
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    I don't think there's any being you could pay enough to take it, besides Uxas.

    She rolls her eyes. "And how exactly would we do that? With our one human-built faster than light ship?"
    Snarky. Also accurate.

    "Alright, well, it's going to be a while before Batman and Mito have this place ready to support the hush tube we'll need to sneak onto Thanagar, and I've got a date tonight. How about we have a look around Apokolips first? See how they're getting on in Father's absence?"
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    You want to risk that?

    "I was thinking more that we kill anyone who looks in danger of getting things organised, but… Sure, we could sic them on my alter ego if you like. I'm guessing… Virman Vundabar, Granny Goodness and DeSaad require most attention. Virman will have the best conventional weapons, Granny the best warriors and DeSaad the most sophisticated technology."
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    Turning one set of foes against another. The only drawback is Thanagar getting caught in between them...

    Well, this just gets more complicated by the minute.
    (And it looks like I've been ninja'd on most of the corrections I spotted. Leaving them in place anyway.)
     
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