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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
If you want to turn humans into telepaths wouldn't it be better to get Doctor von Schadel involved directly?

I mean he is part of the light, an expert in human augmentation and a telepath, not to mention that he had access to Atlantean magic over the last couple of months, which we know can gramt telepathy(Aquaman)

Like he would probably be even more useful than the Chinese.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Mind control their leaders? What does he do about the other billion people?
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Accept their thanks?

Mquz said:
I mean... he could... but he would have to create a reason to make it seem reasonable, like a Starro invasion of the government - but make sure the starros make the targets permanently unable to function without them. Or having one of the superfunctionaries go rogue kill the government while others are unable to stop him. He could use a construct Starro to make sure nobody finds out - he hasn't demonstrated the ability to turn living beings into constructs to anyone else on Earth not part of his group, and Starros are good at hiding the fact they are controlling people.
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Yeah, he would have to. It's not really something you'd do on a lark, you'd have to do a bunch of preparations and that'd include PR.

Citizen said:
I feel like you are referencing something I am just not catching.
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I could be, but then I'd be there with you not getting what I'm referencing.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Accept their thanks?


Yeah, he would have to. It's not really something you'd do on a lark, you'd have to do a bunch of preparations and that'd include PR.


I could be, but then I'd be there with you not getting what I'm referencing.
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You are seriously overestimating how "thankful" the Chinese would be of that operation heck not even the minorities would support such a thing.

Earth-16 China has extremely low meta-human crime (something I am sure the civilians are grateful for everytime an asshole goes in a rampage in the US), and are actively fighting an alien infiltration of chameleon aliens (even if the war isn't on the eye of the international public is fairly unlikely most of the civilian population is completely unaware of the situation even if they only know about it from hearsay). A degradation of liberties is probably the LEAST of their concerns and all "protest" against the government are probably seen in a bad light because the aforementioned chameleon infiltrators would coop these protest to distract the Chinese government.

You all are projecting a lot due to current chinese politics that shall not be discussed here.
 
Aeess said:
If you want to turn humans into telepaths wouldn't it be better to get Doctor von Schadel involved directly?

I mean he is part of the light, an expert in human augmentation and a telepath, not to mention that he had access to Atlantean magic over the last couple of months, which we know can gramt telepathy(Aquaman)

Like he would probably be even more useful than the Chinese.
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Doctor von Schadel is also an American military contractor, so the US wouldn't be willing to let him work for the Chinese, and it'd probably be a serious crime to leak information on his work to them.
 
nick012000 said:
Doctor von Schadel is also an American military contractor, so the US wouldn't be willing to let him work for the Chinese, and it'd probably be a serious crime to leak information on his work to them.
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Yeah, but my point is that working with him is much more preferable compared to working with the Chinese. So if you have to choose between those two, choosing China isn't the best decision.
 
Aeess said:
Yeah, but my point is that working with him is much more preferable compared to working with the Chinese. So if you have to choose between those two, choosing China isn't the best decision.
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There's also the fact that he is trying to bring China into the international fold. If only so that when the Sheeda arrive, the controlled-human-on-human war doesn't happen at a sufficient scale to prevent mounting an effective defense/resistance.
 
Nioz said:
There's also the fact that he is trying to bring China into the international fold. If only so that when the Sheeda arrive, the controlled-human-on-human war doesn't happen at a sufficient scale to prevent mounting an effective defense/resistance.
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Its not like they have to stop all projects together, just telepathy specifically.
 
Chaoswind said:
Earth-16 China has extremely low meta-human crime (something I am sure the civilians are grateful for everytime an asshole goes in a rampage in the US), and are actively fighting an alien infiltration of chameleon aliens (even if the war isn't on the eye of the international public is fairly unlikely most of the civilian population is completely unaware of the situation even if they only know about it from hearsay). A degradation of liberties is probably the LEAST of their concerns and all "protest" against the government are probably seen in a bad light because the aforementioned chameleon infiltrators would coop these protest to distract the Chinese government.
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Chinese metahumans are given the choice between slavery for the state, execution, or death camp.
Chinese government officials want to increase their military state, seemingly without aiding the planetary stage.
Chinese liberties are very easy to dismiss when they're in a fictional story and you're not the one suffering them.

Now, the Chinese people at large have what media they're able to view highly restricted [as evidenced in this story]. So, it's simply a matter of framing the narrative you want them to see, and presenting them with it. Grayven has access to orange lantern branding. He can control everyone who matters in the politburo, and have them pave the way for him.

As for what little the current DC Chinese government is able to provide for their citizens, well, Grayven can easily provide that to them as well. He can also improve upon their situation. It helps that he's a god of conquest with maltusian clarktech, his own lantern corps, and decent relations with foreign powers who might have been able to undermine him.

Understand that the chinese government in DC isn't a democracy where the common people have much say. Who runs, and who wins, that's controlled by the central government. It's a one party system, and the vote is easy to spoof with power rings. As long as the common citizen is given the illusion of choice, alongside more freedoms, I highly doubt they'll revolt any more than our chinese people have since the 80s.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Even with all of the medical information that I've taken from the Institute, re-engineering the human brain to support telepathy is hard. Brains that don't start out as telepathic just… I'm not going to say can't handle the input, but they don't cope well.
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May end up being easier than Grayven thinks (once he finds the answer)--there have been experiments into magnetoreception in humans where volunteers were fitted with magnetic field detectors mounted on belts that transdermally transmitted their readings into the nervous system, without any attempt to specifically format or design the data transmission to be read by the brain; in these experiements, within a few hours of wearing the belt, the subjects were all able to detect local magnetic fields and identify their polar orientations... and were completely unable to explain what it was like to be able to do so to researchers, any more than you could describe green to a blind person, or describe a soprano hitting a high C to a deaf person. (The inability to describe it was seen as evidence of it being an entirely separate sense, rather than the brain interpreting the magnetometers' data through existing senses, since the latter would allow them to at least partially explain what they saw, heard, felt, smelled, or tasted to give them the information on the magnetic field.)

Granted, newer research seems to be showing that the human brain is at least wired for magnetoreception, possibly as a vestigial feature from earlier in the evolutionary tree when it was being used, and is only an unconscious thing that we flat-out ignore because we don't really have enough cells sensitive to magnetic fields to be effective any more, but even that might not make the parallel too far off, in that there are humans in the DCU with natural telepathy, which would indicate that the brain at least somewhat has the wiring to handle it. (Perhaps the test subjects are being driven mad not so much by the mere fact that they're now telepathic, but rather by the sheer overwhelming volume of unintentionally-broadcast thoughts from surrounding humans? Might be worth trying it out someplace far, far away from any inhabited world, so that the new telepath would be facing only a very small number of people's thoughts--preferably natural telepaths who know how to keep their minds "closed" and not broadcast their thoughts. Lord knows how easily I feel overwhelmed in social situations without telepathy; it could well be that non-telepathic humans who are made telepaths suddenly discover that even neurotypical people have a form of autism spectrum disorder that makes them unable to handle the sheer volume of telepathic input they are now receiving, much as how even high-functioning ASD persons struggle in crowds, unless they're all pretty unified in their thinking, like at a sporting event...)
 
RichardWhereat said:
Chinese metahumans are given the choice between slavery for the state, execution, or death camp.
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No, it's conscription or a concentration camp. The people who are conscripted are paid for their work and generally well treated. The camp is supposed to be unpleasant enough that the people there have ample opportunity to change their minds.

Only people who commit serious crimes (including violently resisting arrest) are executed.
Now, the Chinese people at large have what media they're able to view highly restricted [as evidenced in this story]. So, it's simply a matter of framing the narrative you want them to see, and presenting them with it. Grayven has access to orange lantern branding. He can control everyone who matters in the politburo, and have them pave the way for him.
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The main SI would struggle with that, and he's good at manipulating desires. Grayven is far worse at it.

And even if he was successful, he'd be beset by people who had concerns about an Apokoliptian taking control of a country through mind control.
 
Honestly, if Grayven wants to score points with China, a device that can reliably detect durlans over long distance would do it. He's got power rings, apokoliptian tech, and magic users on the payroll. Surely he could put together something for them.
 
Ganurath said:
You would be too if you lost a pair of your setting's deities to litigation by comic writers who've been sitting on the characters ever since.
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Still no reason to break out the dark magic of the Tome of the Retconian, AKA Patentus Friendlius Renamian and screw over the whole of the setting.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Well yes, probably because they try to completely control their people, in a field where the most successful are strict individualists.

It's a shame that Grayven can't just kill their superfunctionaries and mind control their leaders into offering him the crown, which he turns down for a 20 year presidential term.
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He could, but then he would have to kill the JLA and many many many other Supers.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Bracelet, no. Bracer, yes. But a necklace might be better; magic artefacts take a lot of charge to move into or out of subspace and if it starts to overheat you might need to get it off quickly."
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Ok, what is the difference between a Bracer and Bracelet according to OL, and why does he have a problem with a bracelet? Because to me, a bracer is one of those metal bands that are flush against the lower arm above the wrist made out of metal or leather and needs to be attacked by wrapping it around the forearm, whereas a bracelet can be made out of pretty much anything, but is larger and looser can most can be put on or taken off by passing it through the hand.

Which would be ideal for that 'taking it off quickly in case it overheats' OL just mentioned.

Z000 said:
5 green ( 3 regular and 2 recruit)
3 pink ( Alt-Carol, 2 Zamazon)
1 orange ( Paul)
1 blue ( Alan)

10 Lantern so far unless i miss some one
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Where do you get a second Zamoran? I only see a Carol from the reverse universe, and the one half-Zamoran from the local Zamora.

Z000 said:
a Death World is a place where the environment and native animal
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You do realize that to anyone not native to Earth, humans would count as part of the local fauna, right? Yes, the humans are a large part of what makes it look like a Death World to the rest of the galaxy, but a Death World still it remains. A high magic Death World with a jumped up elementals infestation and with bullshit green skinned neighbors next door, to boot.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
Ok, what is the difference between a Bracer and Bracelet according to OL, and why does he have a problem with a bracelet? Because to me, a bracer is one of those metal bands that are flush against the lower arm above the wrist made out of metal or leather and needs to be attacked by wrapping it around the forearm, whereas a bracelet can be made out of pretty much anything, but is larger and looser can most can be put on or taken off by passing it through the hand.
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I realise that I haven't been explicit with how large spell eaters are, but they're too large to fit on something that could be accurately described as a bracelet.
Where do you get a second Zamoran? I only see a Carol from the reverse universe, and the one half-Zamoran from the local Zamora.
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Chantinelle is around somewhere
 
Mr Zoat said:
I realise that I haven't been explicit with how large spell eaters are, but they're too large to fit on something that could be accurately described as a bracelet.

Chantinelle is around somewhere
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I've been imagining something the size of my fist more or less
 
Mr Zoat said:
No, it's conscription or a concentration camp. The people who are conscripted are paid for their work and generally well treated. The camp is supposed to be unpleasant enough that the people there have ample opportunity to change their minds.
Yes, slavery. If they can't leave the job without being imprisoned or exefuted, that's slavery.

Also, yeah, death camp essentially.

Only people who commit serious crimes (including violently resisting arrest) are executed.
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Yes, resisting arrest for how one was born, or an accident happening to them. That wouldn't be considered serious anywhere other than .. rule 8, right.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Yes, resisting arrest for how one was born, or an accident happening to them. That wouldn't be considered serious anywhere other than .. rule 8, right.
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No, arrested for refusing to comply with national conscription laws. Most countries that have conscription do that. Try refusing national service in South Korea and see what happens.
 
National conscription is a policy countries use all the time and many are justified in doing so.

Earth-16 China is under attack by the Durlans ergo its entirely justified. If DC US was also under attack by an alien force of shape-shifting aliens I would bet they would be under a police state not dissimilar than the Chinese one, national conscription is a harder sell in the US with the dissimilar cultural levers, but good old propaganda would probably handle most of that.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Chinese metahumans are given the choice between slavery for the state, execution, or death camp.
Chinese government officials want to increase their military state, seemingly without aiding the planetary stage.
Chinese liberties are very easy to dismiss when they're in a fictional story and you're not the one suffering them.

Now, the Chinese people at large have what media they're able to view highly restricted [as evidenced in this story]. So, it's simply a matter of framing the narrative you want them to see, and presenting them with it. Grayven has access to orange lantern branding. He can control everyone who matters in the politburo, and have them pave the way for him.

As for what little the current DC Chinese government is able to provide for their citizens, well, Grayven can easily provide that to them as well. He can also improve upon their situation. It helps that he's a god of conquest with maltusian clarktech, his own lantern corps, and decent relations with foreign powers who might have been able to undermine him.

Understand that the chinese government in DC isn't a democracy where the common people have much say. Who runs, and who wins, that's controlled by the central government. It's a one party system, and the vote is easy to spoof with power rings. As long as the common citizen is given the illusion of choice, alongside more freedoms, I highly doubt they'll revolt any more than our chinese people have since the 80s.
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You forgot the forced breeding camps.

Because DC China is a real actual shithole for Metahumans.
 
Chaoswind said:
National conscription is a policy countries use all the time and many are justified in doing so.

Earth-16 China is under attack by the Durlans ergo its entirely justified. If DC US was also under attack by an alien force of shape-shifting aliens I would bet they would be under a police state not dissimilar than the Chinese one, national conscription is a harder sell in the US with the dissimilar cultural levers, but good old propaganda would probably handle most of that.
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Halliday Worldwide, a military contractor with their own covert superhero team, is run by a Durlan.

A member of the Futurists, he, among other things, is there to stop the Purist Durlans from getting the pre-6 minute war Durlan DNA. So in fact the US is ground zero of a Durlan war.

The US experiments with Durlan technology produced the android Inferno and the shapeshifting nanite suit of the Shield's.

So if Durlans are a uniquely Chinese problem here, that's more to do with which comic books Zoat felt like incorporating than anything else.
 
Sprited Away (part 7)
18th February
08:29 GMT -5

Roy glances my way as he falls in next to his newly armoured colleague.

"If this keeps going we're going to need a bigger mountain."

"Challenger Mountain's on the market. How do you feel about Denver?"

I'd been ignoring the problem, but Roy brought it up nicely. While the newer team members do need formal instruction, those of us who've been here a while… We don't need it. We're not a training squad for low risk busywork any longer-. If we ever really were. We need field experience, sure, but I can't help but think that an overhaul of the system might be required.

Like finding a city that is a bit of a mess and building a giant tower in the shape of a 'T' on a nearby island.

Or something.

And… Roy hasn't said anything to me, but… There isn't really much difference between him and the version of him on the League. Other than the fact that he's much better armed. Skillwise they're pretty much identical. And yet he's down here on the 'teaching' squad and William is on the 'graduated' League.

So what's the plan? I don't think there's any sort of structure by which we get promoted. Richard and Wallace will want to go to college and.. maybe they can't commit to spending the time or lack the neurological stability due to being teenagers. But Kaldur or Canis? What's the bar there?

Alright, with Canis-.

"Recognized, Batman, Zero Two."

I find myself not.. snapping to attention in the way that I used to as Batman strides into prime lecturing position. It's not that I don't respect him. No, it's that I don't fear his disapproval. I'm confident that (in my sphere) I know more about the job than he does. Or maybe actually getting to know the man has cured me of my lingering devotion to the Infallible Bat-God. Still, he has actually waded through reams of intelligence and crime reports to find something at our level -whatever that is- so there's no need to be rude.

"I have four tasks for the team. It will be up to you to decide where to focus your efforts."

Squads of five each, with a few left over. I'm a little surprised that the newest three are being included, but I suppose that they're not exactly 'new'. Arisia grew up around Lanterns in a spacefaring civilisation where knowledge of Lanterns was commonplace. Ghia'ta… Could be literally any age, and the Noriel part of Supergirl is thousands of years old.

"Federal police in Pakistan have requested assistance in dealing with several settlements they believe have been infiltrated by Kobra sympathisers."

A map flashes up on the holographic display, but I'm already frowning. Kobra are Hindu heretics. Pakistan is virtually entirely Muslim. Okay, there's some spill over in the border regions but Partition didn't happen because the two religions get on super well. So there isn't going to be significant native support for their ideology there… Or maybe that's the point? Marginalised communities being driven to adopt an extreme version of their religion due to external pressure?

"The team's task will be to gather evidence of Kobra activity and -if appropriate- to take action against any Kobra operatives in the area."

That team's going to need a magic user and.. probably M'gann? And those of us who've participated in anti-Kobra operations before should probably not take part. That area doesn't have the best communications infrastructure but if Kobra recruiters actually are active in the area I'm sure they'll have our pictures. Of course, none of us could really… Blend in with the locals, and it's not exactly a holiday hotspot. I wonder if Vasi's available?

"Secondly." The screen showing that part of Pakistan floats off to the side and another showing a snow-covered wasteland appears. "STAR Labs have requested that we help locate a team they dispatched to Nepal. They were studying the monastery which was briefly used as a refuge by surviving members of the League of Shadows last year. The team leader -a man named Anderson Gaines- reported that they had located metal samples of non-terrestrial origin before losing contact. We have their itinerary and last known position, but neither the Watchtower's sensors nor local rescue teams are able to locate them."

No Prometheus in this setting, as far as I have been able to tell. I suppose that he'd be quite young now, and I don't remember his real name. Would he kill a STAR Labs team? If someone was paying him, yes, but on his own recognisance he only targeted law enforcers. And I can't really see him being so attached to the place that he would attack them just for going there. So probably not him, and if it is then he's the Batman sort. Without preparation time he'd struggle to cope with a squad from the team and isn't that an awkward way to phrase it.

"Thirdly." Ah, this is a little closer to home. "The town of Kennedy in Oregon has the highest rate of suicide among teenagers in the north western United States, without any of the usual external triggers for suicidal tendencies."

Well, that's one way to get team numbers down to something manageable. I suppose that as team empath I should take that one, though that's a bit harsh considering how difficult my colleagues will find travelling to and from the other two.

"The team will attempt to discover why, or at least find a way to reduce it temporarily."

"Lastly, we've heard rumours of a metahuman fighting tournament being held in Madagascar. While prize fighting is not necessarily illegal, I'm concerned that wanted criminals may use it to generate revenue and advertise their services. The team will attempt to locate the event, observe it and plant monitoring devices."

Ah, the trainee mission. Madagascar has a large enough tourist population that any of us could fit in and it concerns a crime where the individuals involved want to keep things at least a little bit quiet. Or try and brazen things out if discovered rather than go out in a blaze of villainy. No obvious reason for me to go there. In fact, my public profile means that I'm a bad fit for it.

"I will expect to see your mission plans within the hour. Dismissed." Oh, the meeting room is going to get crowded. Maybe I should knock through a wall-. "Orange Lantern, stay behind."

A few of my colleagues glance back as they head down the corridor. I just give them a small shrug before giving Batman my full attention. If he wants to talk about yesterday…

"What can I do for you, sir?"

"I have a particular assignment for you." He fully dismisses the holoscreens. "I agree with the assessment you made that one of the key roles for the Justice League is to be prepared to take on the worst that the universe can throw at the Earth. As part of the League's ongoing training process I want you to act as our opposing force in a war game we will be conducting next week."

"You want me to take on the role of a supervillain?"

"Yes."

In.. teresting. "Do.. ing.. what?"

"That will be up to you. You have performed analyses of supervillain activity second only to my own. You know the sort of things that the League's enemies may attempt, and your knowledge of galactic politics means you are also aware of what extraterrestrial threats may exist. Submit your plan to me no later than Thursday."

"Sir." Oh… Man. So many things I could do with this. Of course, I'll have to make sure that my 'targets' and 'victims' are willing to play along… "I'm sure that I'll come up with something."

Batman nods. "Concerning your activity in Gotham City yesterday. While you were correct to say that you do not work for Batwoman, and have no obligation to obey my orders outside of team missions, I ask that in the future you try to avoid deliberately antagonising her."

"I'm sure that I can manage that."

"That aside, you are to be congratulated on your success. Whoever 'Mister Gotham' is, he and his cult represented a significant threat to the city."

"You should probably thank Selina about that, too. If she hadn't been there I doubt that I'd have found the place."

He nods. "Which mission will you take part in?"

"Ultimately, that's Kaldur's decision, but I was thinking Kennedy. Understanding people's motivations is what I'm best at."

He regards me for a moment and nods, then turns away and heads for the zeta tube.
 
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