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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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So I took a break from reading this fic for a year or so and boy did I miss a lot. I'd love to catch up again, but I'm hesitant.

Trans-humanist themes have a been a major part of this story since the beginning, and, to quote one biohacker, "One of the key concepts of transhumanism is morphological freedom, the freedom to make our own decisions about how our bodies look, feel, and function. I think this idea resonates deeply with many queers."

I was saddened to read statements of gender essentialism from a trans-humanist like you Zoat. Gender non conforming people were some of the original biohackers, and ignoring trans people when including themes about morphological freedom is a real shame when they have such a big stake in it, and have been fighting for it since time immemorial.

Without them, well, you haven't exactly shot yourself in the foot, but it seems you have been trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without all the pieces.

Or not. I'm not one to rush to judgement usually, and where as ideally I'd try to catch up to see for myself, here I'll ask if anyone on this thread to could briefly help me understand what's going on queer people wise.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Mr Queen put his sticker on while insisting that Ms Lance comply with its instruction. Mr Allen noted it and then ignored it, and it's still on the table in front of him. Mr Thal disintegrated it with a tap of her mace when she thought I wasn't watching.
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Think you dropped an 's' in this title, unless Hawkman borrowed his wife's weapon to do some preemptive anger management.
 
Mist Again said:
Or not. I'm not one to rush to judgement usually, and where as ideally I'd try to catch up to see for myself, here I'll ask if anyone on this thread to could briefly help me understand what's going on queer people wise.
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While Mr. Zoat has not edited the story or apologized for the Z-E-R-O arc, he has avoided anything similar for the past dozen or so arcs since then. Likewise, in the entire six year run of the story, he's posted similar content maybe three times total, including the arc that got him banned on SV. Up to you whether you'd like to read WTR with the understanding that the author is likely to post something that will offend you once every other year or so.

E: To remind people, this thread and this forum in general is not the place to post about whether or not you think a particular view on gender is correct. I'm intentionally leaving my opinion out of it and just commenting on what themes the story has contained in the past and is likely to contain in the future. Please DON'T reply to this with arguments about whether Zoat is Shitler or not. This is not the thread for that.
 
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Enochi said:
Ugg. I really really want to slap Paul for the Flawless Opponent remark. I kinda feel like most the time I end up wanting to root for whoever he is facing rather then the protagonist.
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To be fair, he can - as proven in the Syndicate universe when the DCAU League showed up - take down the League's core in under a second. He's not flawless by any means, but he is incredibly powerful and aware of all their weaknesses and able to take advantage of those weaknesses. He's more prepared than Batman and has instantly deployable hard counters to any of the other League members who have any means of touching him. Meanwhile the only decent hard counter I can think of to Paul is currently on the other side of the galaxy training to fight the Reach. And not exactly the safest counter to try to use even if she weren't.

Mist Again said:
I was saddened to read statements of gender essentialism from a trans-humanist like you Zoat. Gender non conforming people were some of the original biohackers, and ignoring trans people when including themes about morphological freedom is a real shame when they have such a big stake in it, and have been fighting for it since time immemorial.
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I was going to comment on this....but no. That's a can of worms best left unopened.

All I'll say is that if you simply skip that arc you'll find the story since then is up to the standards you know.
 
Siskulous said:
To be fair, he can - as proven in the Syndicate universe when the DCAU League showed up - take down the League's core in under a second. He's not flawless by any means, but he is incredibly powerful and aware of all their weaknesses and able to take advantage of those weaknesses. He's more prepared than Batman and has instantly deployable hard counters to any of the other League members who have any means of touching him. Meanwhile the only decent hard counter I can think of to Paul is currently on the other side of the galaxy training to fight the Reach. And not exactly the safest counter to try to use even if she weren't.
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Not to mention the fact that the League probably wouldn't be aware he was an enemy until the last moment, and that OL would probably call in Orange Corps assistance if it was a real fight. He has hard counters for League members that the League knows about, as well as likely possible counters he could have snagged from Earth Prime comic lore.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Then again, how many of them would have been useful in that fight anyway? The mages could have stopped or slowed down Mr Atom, yes... But Pointy-Stick-Launcher-man? Man Dressed Like A Bat? yeah...
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Comms were on the fritz from the radiation, so Man Dressed As A Bat being present would probably have improved their tactics.
 
Rule 8 warning. 'It's not about that but...' No. You don't get to rant about it and say it isn't about that.
Grek said:
Up to you whether you'd like to read WTR with the understanding that the author is likely to post something that will offend you once every other year or so.
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It's not about being offended. People do plenty of offensive things everyday that I find distasteful, and there simply aren't enough minutes in the day to be upset by every single one of them. Gender essentialism and misgendering is irritating, but hardly reaches the cruel depths of more active transphobia that kills and murders and rapes and harasses and evicts and fires and gaslights and refusals to treat and abuses and so on.

I'm interested in queer biotechnology because, as long as the queer people are being afforded the same respect as the AI are, I believe there's a lot of untapped potential here.
 
You'll probably want to take a look at Rule 8 then, because (as interesting the topic is) this is empathically not the place to discuss it due to the forum's ban on anything relating to current politics. You may also find these threadmarked moderation posts about said rule as it pertains to this thread informative. At the very least, you should PM a mod to double check that it's okay?
 
Darko said:
Siskolous
Do you mean Jade?
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Yes. There are several ways in which Jade can be used as a counter to Paul. The most direct would be mind controlling her to fight him because he would never be able to bring himself to want to hurt her. That's dangerous because if he detects the mind control before she brings him down you're screwed because he can counter that. You could also use her as a distraction or a foil in the hopes that his feelings for her are strong enough to shut down his rings, but given that he's enlightened that seems unlikely to work and even if it does he's got plenty of other toys tools to use.

Grek said:
You'll probably want to take a look at Rule 8 then
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Yet another reason not to open that can of worms.

Actually for a long time they had an announcement about Rule 8 in the banner aimed specifically at those of us who followed Zoat over from SV. Since it's gone now I can only assume the mods decided that we're all well behaved enough to not need the reminder. Let's not prove them wrong, k?
 
Mr Zoat said:
The holoscreen shows a picture of the fully recovered Mr Atom glowing brilliantly, while all around him Geiger counters drop off to near baseline levels of radioactivity. A jump in the recording, and then a video clip of Mr Atom walking around Ozyorsk with three children on his shoulders, the red object built into his chest plate glowing.

"In case you're wondering, that's why the Russian government was happy to let us use the Chelyabinsk Oblast as a staging area."
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Awesome, honestly Mr Atom could be answer to cleaning up other sites that have dealt with serious fallout and remove dangerous byproducts.
 
Will paragon and Jade continue their relationship, or will the break up like renagade did?

When is Jade going to make an apperence in the paragon side?
When is Jade going to make an apperance in the renegade side?

When will crisis of Pauls and Jades happen, what year?
 
Mist Again said:
So I took a break from reading this fic for a year or so and boy did I miss a lot. I'd love to catch up again, but I'm hesitant.

Trans-humanist themes have a been a major part of this story since the beginning, and, to quote one biohacker, "One of the key concepts of transhumanism is morphological freedom, the freedom to make our own decisions about how our bodies look, feel, and function. I think this idea resonates deeply with many queers."

I was saddened to read statements of gender essentialism from a trans-humanist like you Zoat. Gender non conforming people were some of the original biohackers, and ignoring trans people when including themes about morphological freedom is a real shame when they have such a big stake in it, and have been fighting for it since time immemorial.

Without them, well, you haven't exactly shot yourself in the foot, but it seems you have been trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without all the pieces.

Or not. I'm not one to rush to judgement usually, and where as ideally I'd try to catch up to see for myself, here I'll ask if anyone on this thread to could briefly help me understand what's going on queer people wise.
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Something that saddens me is the way so few people who took issue with what I said appear to have actually read it.

Neither I nor the SI have any problem with people changing their bodies however they want. There just happens to be a part of our language which refers to one particular trait.
B.B. Rain said:
Think you dropped an 's' in this title, unless Hawkman borrowed his wife's weapon to do some preemptive anger management.
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Thank you, corrected, thought that is an interesting idea.
cereal_lurker said:
Is this meant to be Mr McCulloch?
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Thank you, corrected.
Darko said:
Will paragon and Jade continue their relationship, or will the break up like renegade did?
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No sign of them breaking up yet.
When is Jade going to make an appearance in the paragon side?
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Tomorrow.
When is Jade going to make an appearance in the renegade side?
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Pass.
When will crisis of Pauls and Jades happen, what year?
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Probably 2012. Though it could happen in a lot of years.
 
Would anti green SI date Nyssa, if not then who?

Is Saul dating Charlotte, Super Dupers leader?
 
Is Saul romantically involved with anyone?

What is going to happen to anti green SI now that Superman is back?
 
Is Luna going to show up during the Equestria episodes?
Will Discord show up?
Will the Storm King?
Will King Sombra?
What year are we going to see the SI that ended up in Ame Comi universe, and what is the colour of his ring?
In what universe did violet SI end up in?
 
Darko said:
Is Saul romantically involved with anyone?
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No.
What is going to happen to anti green SI now that Superman is back?
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Changed my mind. That's tomorrow. Jade's Friday.
Darko said:
Is Luna going to show up during the Equestria episodes?
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Yes. Quite a lot.
Will Discord show up?
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Very briefly.
Will the Storm King?
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Probably not.
Will King Sombra?
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No.
What year are we going to see the SI that ended up in Ame Comi universe, and what is the colour of his ring?
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Probably never.
In what universe did violet SI end up in?
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I haven't decided that such an individual exists.
 
I was thinking about the whole schizo-tech/Boss Smiley "why does all the super-advanced technology so rarely make it out to general public usage" plotline that's been running through the story from the beginning.

It's occurred to me that the SI has only ever recognized one half of the mystery. Yes, there's a question of why the general public doesn't start using the technology, but there's also the question of why Earth is the only place the schizo-tech appears in the first place. We've seen a lot of alien worlds by now, and it's clear that this phenomenon of "genius invents technology far beyond general tech level of their planet" just isn't a thing on most planets. Paul frequently seems to shrug it off as "that's Earth for you" while questioning the "why doesn't the public adopt it" aspect, but if you have two examples of abnormal events about a linked topic, there's a decent chance that they have a related cause. The question of why a robot like Mr. Atom could be invented with vacuum tube technology and why nobody else is making robots like Mr. Atom seem likely to be related questions, not separate questions.

On a related topic Mr Zoat, does the SI have any interest in acquiring the secrets of Mirror Master's technology for general usage? He's made Captain Cold's freeze gun a core part of his arsenal, as well as encouraging others to use it. Why not the Mirror dimension? Seems like it would have a lot of uses for easy transport that could compete with dolmon gates. Going by the origin story it doesn't sound like the "special mirrors" are very difficult to produce, though of course there may be factors of which we're unaware. If Mr McCulloch is primarily interested in money, OL could offer him more than he could ever spend.

Also on a related topic, magic and superscience are two of the hardest 'powers' in comics to deal with because they can do anything unless the writer decides they can't. You seem to have developed a pretty good sense of 'magical theory' for the DC universe that helps you decide what magic users can and can't do. Do you have a similar guiding philosophy for super-science that helps you determine, "Dr. Sivana can probably invent something that does 'this' but he probably can't invent something that does 'that'"?
 
Steelplaza said:
On a related topic Mr Zoat, does the SI have any interest in acquiring the secrets of Mirror Master's technology for general usage? He's made Captain Cold's freeze gun a core part of his arsenal, as well as encouraging others to use it. Why not the Mirror dimension? Seems like it would have a lot of uses for easy transport that could compete with dolmon gates. Going by the origin story it doesn't sound like the "special mirrors" are very difficult to produce, though of course there may be factors of which we're unaware. If Mr McCulloch is primarily interested in money, OL could offer him more than he could ever spend.
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The mirror universe is sufficiently weird that the SI is focusing on other things.
Also on a related topic, magic and superscience are two of the hardest 'powers' in comics to deal with because they can do anything unless the writer decides they can't. You seem to have developed a pretty good sense of 'magical theory' for the DC universe that helps you decide what magic users can and can't do. Do you have a similar guiding philosophy for super-science that helps you determine, "Dr. Sivana can probably invent something that does 'this' but he probably can't invent something that does 'that'"?
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No.
 
Well... a robot that feeds off of radiation isn't really that hard to make. That's preety much what anything solar powered is. The problem is making it efficient and making it able to gather radiation, while still having extra energy left over. As opposed to passively absorbing it, both of which are problems that could potentially be solved in the next 100 years with no problem.
 
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